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An '04 TCUV Corolla S with 30K mi and 100K PT Warranty/Roadside Assistance, et al. @$14K is much more vehicle than a brand new Yaris with 'only' the New Car Warranty.
But for some it's new or nothing so there is the Yaris.
Both are good options, the Corolla is more for the money.
I want to be able to scoot down to road for $10k."
As much as I wouldn't want a stripped base model, I really find it ridiculous that Toyota won't let anyone have the package-less version. The only reason they even have the $10,950 in there is a sales gimmick to attract attention. Sad, really.
Either offer the stripped version for $10950, or just admit it that no one will drive away from the dealership for less than $13k.
The Yaris is just arriving. AS with all models there is excitement, 'hype', call it what you want but in the beginning everyone knows that at first launch demand is strong and supply relatively tight.
In due course the two balance out then the vehicles start to seem 'faded' at which time the supply supercedes the demand and prices are adjusted accordingly.
Two solutions:
1) Find a friend at a Toyota store who will put in a special order for you for a stripped model; you will have to wait for this to be built during the early months.
2) Wait 18 -24 mo's for the 'hype' to wear off and pick one up out of stock.
The same exact thing happened in the current Gen5 Camry. When it first came out in '02 there was just the LE model as the base. The market demanded after 24 months a more basic, stripped version so the 'standard' Camry was added.
The market told Toyota that the power seat, keyless and full-sized spare weren't necessary in a base model... and the price had to be lower. So 'Yota did just that.
You're probably right. I'll be voting against the options madness when it comes to the Yaris.
The "options madness" remark just got me to thinking that last time it was supposedly an option (on the Echo), even though they never built any that way it seems.....which then got me thinking about the Echo's power steering....and OK, I'll stop now! ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Is there some secret tax strategy or something that favors credit? Otherwise, I would assume that the reason they like credit is because in the long run they are taking more of your money.
I still think if you pop in with cash, saying "no bs, want to move a unit?" and it is near the end of the month, quarter, year, you will likely do pretty well. If not at one dealer...another.
On the last day of the period any serious buyer will get a good deal.... except a finance customer will get a somewhat better deal for the reason above.
People are often surprised to learn what the greatest profit center is at large airports. Any guesses?..... Airline fees? Concessions? PFC's? Nope.... Parking lots!!
Now, I have to be honest and tell you that my information is some years old, but the #1 profit center for many car dealers was FINANCING. In order of sheer dollar profit, I am going to throw out there for debate that the order of precedence is: 1)Financing, 2)Repairs/Service, 3)Used car sales and distant last.... 4)New car sales. A huge, in fact REQUIRED, source of revenue/profit for car dealers is in selling you MONEY, not CARS.
BTW, cash works extremely well if the dealer's need is to replace inventory with contracts-in-hand, and that only happens 12 times a year ("30 days has September," etc.)
As for the Yaris, I found out that a 4-door automatic with convenience package is $14k. That is without ABS, side bags/curtains, or power package (or such things as alloys, but I can live w/o those). So I figure a Yaris equipped the way I want it is going to be over $15k. For that kind of money I can get a much nicer car, e.g. Elantra GLS with moonroof or possibly even a Sonata. The Versa also looks like a nicer car than the Yaris and will start at $12.5k, so well equipped should be around $15k. And it gets an estimated 38 mpg overall, better than the Yaris. The value proposition of the Yaris escapes me.
Thanks.
I am not an expert on auto financing. I have generally found a late model private party seller the place to get the best deals on cars. However, I've read that dealer financing will not give you the lowest rate in general. Put aside the 0% incentives that have pervaded the industry of late. If you are paying a higher rate than you can get at say, your credit union, or some fees have been snuck in on you, then despite the dealer knocking a couple bucks off the sell price, you have not come out ahead. They are essentially giving the dealer a commission which the dealer passes on to you in your scenario. That commission comes from somewhere, now perhaps the extra profit from poor risk borrowers allows them to give you a good rate through a transfer of profits. But poor credit folks get charged higher rates for a reason. that being their is more of a chance of default. In a rising rate environment, I wonder if the same "deals" are avialable.
Home Equity... good but not perfect
Credit Unions
Auto Finance Co's .. GMAC, TFS, Ford etc
Banks
Secondary Fin Co's
Problem Case Lenders
Buy here Pay here
All the large finance operations studdy each other every single day so that they don't get out-of-line and set their rates too low or too high. Very often the best rates are the specials from the Auto finance Co's 2.9%, 0% etc. on these it's the Sales Dept which has combined with the Fin Dept to offer incentives. Notice it's usually $1000 Cash rebate or 3.9%.
Excluding a subvented rate like this the CU's and Auto fin Co's are usually very very close, with banks being higher.
To beernut:
Your estimate on the profitability within a dealership is prolly very close. On new cars most are often give-away's with the hope that the buyer will finance with the Company lender ( GMAC, etc ). On subvented rates like those noted above the retail store may get $100 for doing the paperwork on the loan etc.
You should be able to get a base Yaris, hatch or 4-door, with A/C and auto for under $15k. The 4-door I saw in Chicago was just over $13k with destination and included A/C and automatic. The major option added to put it up to $14k was the convenience package. But there are some features I will not do without, since I will drive the car for 6-7 years and then turn it over to my daughter. These include power package (I have to have power locks and windows on a 4-door, I am spoiled now after many years with those features), ABS (preferably with traction control), side bags (preferably with side curtains), and probably an automatic (because my DW and/or oldest son trashed the clutch on my Elantra and they will be occasional drivers of this car). I can live without alloys, moonroof, killer stereo, and even cruise.
for the Yaris Liftback would be?
Since this car is without Rear defroster and Rear wiper and only bench folding rear seat ( NO SPLIT SEATS ) these two packages are a most since these items are among these two packages!.
When I bought my ECHO here in the US, I was dismayed not to have the hatchback as an option. Having driven the Seadan ECHO for five years now, I see the hatchback has it drawbacks. The rear seats in the Scion Xa hatchback are only like eight inches from the hatchback door. That gives you practically zero trunk space if you cant put the rear seats down. The space availible with the seats down is not a large as I would have imagined either. The trunk on my ECHO has proven large enough for my needs. Its much bigger than I would have thought. That and the fact there is a passthrough between the trunk and the rear seat area makes the car much more user friendly.
Although I would rather have a hatchback, the sedan has proven adequate for my needs.
Considering in Mass right now, you can get a Corolla CE with auto and AC for under $11K, I am willing to guarantee that you will be able to get a Yaris equipped that way for under $11K. (As a matter of fact, a fully loaded Corolla LE can be had for $15,500 in Mass, so any dealership that charges that and anyone who pays that for a somewhat stripped Yaris needs to have their head examined)
Once you increase the area behind the seats of a hatchback, you will need to increase the overhang behind the rear wheels, and that will inevitably make it look like a wagon. The only real difference in exterior design between a 5-door hatchback and its wagon counterpart is the overhang.
There isn't any real Toyota Yaris example I could give, but here is the Skoda Fabia with a 5-door hatchback, sedan, and the wagon. The wagon is what happens when you make a hatchback version of the sedan...literally, they're almost identical. Not to say the wagon doesn't look good (out of the three it's my favorite), but it is distinctly a wagon, and not a hatchback.
http://www.skoda.hu/files/images/download/gallery/800/125.jpg
http://www.drivingtelevision.com/reviews_detail.php?id=36
If so, then Toyota has sold me. There is nothing as thrilling as cruising into the pump with less than a mile left on the MTE display But then again I am a crazy and reckless maniac! That is why I am even considering such an impractial sports car as the Yaris two door!
more thrilling to pin the needle below red and hear the car sputter and you don't know where the nearest station is.
Also configured a Corolla for my zip code (Chicago 60657). Apparently no packages in Chicago will allow the combination of manual trans and side airbags and/or even ABS--why does that not surprise me? Of course, the manual as 'loaded' as they would allow (PW, the mandatory all-weather thing, sunroof, alloys/spoiler) had an MSRP of around $174xx. I imagine the Corolla, once the Yaris is out, may carry some discounts, while the Yaris will go full sticker, so either way, you're in the $16k ballpark for a loaded vehicle. Again, not bad, but you're forced to either take the bigger car sans safety features or a loaded Yaris with ABS and SAB but no sunroof option, at least in Chicago. If I can't have the sunroof, the Scions are looking a heck of a lot more attractive.
If
Came up with $14,370 including delivery for a manual shift 3-door with convenience and power packages, alloys, keyless, and ABS.
I am encouraged, as that is lower than I expected. But I am most chagrined to see that cruise was not among the options, same as the Echo used to be. What is it with Toyota? Every other Toyota has optional or standard cruise. Every other car in this class has optional cruise.
With no cruise and no moonroof, I might just get the alloys as an accessory and call it a day at $11,5 sticker, finding myself an aftermarket CD same as my current car.
Maybe dealers will have some type of dealer-installed accessory cruise lined up when this car actually becomes available. I am sure it will cost more that way than if Toyota just offered it as a factory option.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Before you get a Yaris w/o side airbags, you might want to see what the crash test results are with and w/o the side bags. They can make quite a difference on a small car, e.g. Corolla.
There’s still some overlap between the needle and the slash below the "E".
How long are you gonna go?
Oh, I’ve been in the slash many times. This is nothing. You’ll get used to it. Just, get it out of your mind.
Have you ever been completely below the slash?
Well, I almost did once, and I blacked out. When I came to, the car was in a ditch, and the tank was full. I don’t know who did it, and I never got to thank them..
Is it just the angle I’m looking from?
No, Sir. We are down there.
Oh, this is amazing! Oh, I’ve never felt so alive!
Yeah, well, alright. I’m satisfied. We better get some gas.
What? Well, we can’t stop now.
What do you mean?
We have to keep going - all the way back to the dealership. That was the plan.
There was no plan.
Well, let’s make it the plan! Let’s just.. go for it! Like Thelma and Louise.
What, they drove to a dealership?
No, they drove off a cliff.
You are one sick mama.. I like it.
- Seinfeld, The Dealership
Could be Echo all over again. Once optioned it makes the Civic/Corolla look like better values. I hope the Fit Sport with manual does not also reach $16675. If so, I may end up in a Civic.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It should probably stay in the $15-16k range for a Sport 5MT with destination. A Fit Sport 5AT will most likely be mid-$16k after destination.
I configured a Yaris liftback to compare how my Fit (base) 5-speed manual will be equipped. It ended up being around $13,820 (including Convenience, Power, Airbags, ABS) without destination.
Honda has not released pricing for the Fit yet, but I am expecting it to be slightly less than that for the base 5-speed manual.
Toyota's latest thing is making the "optional" side airbags and curtains pretty much standard on every Corolla and Camry they build, so I assume that if I want a Yaris WITHOUT those I will have to order it or go for one with no options at all. That is the "Toyota reality". :-/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wonder if we will see big discounts on the Yaris, at least until the new, pricier Corolla is out? Otherwise I don't see many loaded Yarii being sold.
BTW, I found the Yaris configurator very frustrating. Slow as heck (note to Toyota: not everyone has a blazingly fast PC) and when I used the "send to a friend" option to send an email to myself, all I got was a URL to the Yaris site--which didn't work!
I figure $12K or 12,5 OTD would get me a new car, WITH the CD and rear wiper and defogger. Still steel rims with covers though. I think they move up to 15" if you get the convenience package, but I could be mistaken. Even so, a brand new Toyota for $12,5 after fees is pretty cool, and it will be ULEV-II and hopefully still get me 40 to the gallon.
If I am not taking the basic route, I will probably wait until the new Corolla arrives and try to get a really good deal on one of the old ones. If I'm spending $15K+ anyway, I can get more of what I want without having to work at finding a car equipped the way I like, as most of the Corolla LEs come with the 6-speaker stereo and cruise package (and already have everything else I want). And I can still get 35-37 miles to the gallon - pretty close.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A Civic EX for 17,500-17,800 and a Yaris S sedan for 16,400-16,900. What would I pick? Civic of course. If I wasn't forced to get the sunroof on the EX, I could probably get one for under 17k.
Counterpoint: the Civic has the same problem as my old RSX: a turning radius wider than a public bus, making U-turns in the City next to impossible and putting it in tight parking spots difficult. With the Civic you add overly bolstered seats (who's driving this thing, Mario Andretti?!) and the very weird double tier dash with digital speedo so that the guys in both the adjoining lanes can test the accuracy of their speedos using your four-foot-high bright blue numerals. That last I haven't decided on yet - I will definitely try to keep something of an open mind until I test drive it in person.
Plus hey, no Civic hatch available! But I know you are looking at sedans, so that last applies only to me. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Try my old 2005 Ford F150...stats say almost 47 feet turning radius...Every parking lot I was in made me feel like a kid with a driver's permit.
Interesting thing...the Chevrolet Aveo lists the turning radius at 16 feet. It's on eEdmunds as well as Chevy's own website...can you say TYPO?
By comparison, my 4Runner (last gen, not the current huge one) turns in a smaller radius than the Civic. The RSX was worse, at 38 feet. Sheesh, FWD and wide-ish tires conspired to make that thing really hard to turn in the city.
And for further comparison, my current Echo has a turning radius less than 32 feet, and I assume that with a wheelbase only three inches longer, the new Yaris hatch will get close to that figure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
16 feet for the Aveo is the radius, while 32 feet would be the diameter. On the other hand the Fit has a 35.6 ft turning diameter with a 17.8 radius.
Everything is listed as "turning circle" on edmunds, which is diameter, not radius.
However, the Aveo is listed on edmunds as turning circle of 16 feet...AND on the Chevy website it's listed as "Curb to curb: 16 feet"
It would make more sense as a 32 foot circle...unless the wheels turn almost perpendicular, like a forklift, for instance...