Toyota Yaris

moparbad

Apparently you've not sat in an Italian traffic-jam recently. You need to bring oxygen tanks to breathe.

Europe has greater than 50% of passenger cars being sold powered by diesel and USA has less than 3% with no sales in CA emissions states.

The really strange thing is that PM2.5 (measure of particulate matter) is lower in Rome Italy than in Los Angeles.
I do have experience in Italy, and I'll risk my health there before I will in LA or Pittsburg.

The emissions laws have not solved the problem in CA, they have only prevented people from buying 50 mpg diesel cars!

beantown

I'd rather have a clean 40 mpg Yaris that I can fill up for $2.20 a gallon rather than a dirty 50 mpg diesel car that most likely costs more and would require gas that costs upwards of $2.60 a gallon in New England.

Even if all else was equal, why do diesel lovers constantly brag about the mileage they get when they pay so much more at the pump than regular gas users do?

jdgriswald

You must frequent the Free Republic, because they had a thread on there with the same comment. North American versions are built in Japan.

Of course throwing info out for comment without research is Freep's mainstay.

reddroverr

Sorry about steering the conversation a little O/T. I was just wondering if the YAris would be coming in diesel anytime soon. My understanding is that diesels can be made cleaner and get better mileage. They can also be powered by partial biofuels.

I just got back form the portland auto show. They had the two models of Yarii there. A three door hatch and the sedan. The sedan is a nice looking car. The hatch looks pretty good too. I like the looks a little better than the scion xa. I think these are going to be popular models for toyota, and may be priced at a premium based on demand. I hope not, after seeing them i am definitely interested. the sales guy i talked to said they "hope" to have them in the showrooms in a few weeks. The mileage was listed at 34 and 40. Though i would think the hatch and the sedan would vary slightly. I didn't see a Honda Fit there.

jdgriswald

It's too bad the U.S. isn't getting the 5-door. Much more practical. Checked one out on a trip over the border shortly after release. xA sales would dry up if they sold it here; they may even with the 3-door's competition.

moparbad

I'd rather drive a 50 mpg plus clean diesel on $2.25 gallon diesel than a dirty gasoline 40 mpg Yaris on $2.30 gallon regular gas.
Even if all else was equal, why do gasoline lovers constantly dismiss diesel when gasoline is more expensive than diesel, less efficient than diesel, more dangerous than diesel, and non-renewable when biodiesel is available nationwide?

Give the bean a chance beantown, driving on soybean fuel is so much better than imported petroleum!

1.4 D-4D Yaris

inharmsway

Diesel is 40 cents a gallon more than regular at my neighborhood station. The new clean diesel we will get soon might even be higher. I wonder what the price difference is in Europe?
inharmsway

double

Diesel is more expensive than gasoline also in Canada. You probably will not see one of these cars as a diesel in North America.

hungarian83

"You must frequent the Free Republic"
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. In fact, I've never even heard of the "Free Republic". Thanks for assuming though. I also didn't throw out comment without research, so try not to be "smart".

"Apparently you've not sat in an Italian traffic-jam recently. You need to bring oxygen tanks to breathe."
While I have not been to Italy, I have been to many large European cities where diesels are popular and I have never seen as bad air pollution as in Los Angeles (where I lived for several years).

Kirstie_H

Folks, let's stay away from making personally-directed comments, and let's get back on the specific topic of the Yaris. We've got plenty of other discussions in which you can talk about pros & cons of diesels. Thanks!

matsuseo

Up here in Canada we received the Echo "Hatchback", which sold very well. It's styling far surpasses the Echo Sedan which the United States is restricted to. This year we have received the Yaris 3-door and 5-door models. So far this year the Sedan model has been eliminated. The Yaris hatchbacks look much better and provide a nice cabin feel. I think that Americans will take to the Yaris hatchback much better than the "not so attractive" Echo Sedan. :shades:

nukepooch1

FWIW, I personally am pumped about the 3 door hatchback. I will look at the Honda Fit for comparison, but I have no need for 4 people doors... I also don't like how four door cars have much smaller door openings. If I had a family, I'm sure I'd be plugging Toyota for a 5 door, but for a single person, I want the sporty, smaller, easier-to-get-into three door. I also love how the base model includes A/C...which is the only option I'd be interested in. I can put cruise, power windows/locks, and a good stereo in by myself.

nippononly

you can put in power windows by yourself? Goodness, with that amount of work, why not pay the $1000 or so for the package that includes them and four or five other things? Especially if you know you want cruise and power locks as well. If you actually WANT all the things in the power package, it is really a pretty good price. The people that always complain about the Toyota packages are the ones who only want one or two things in the package and find there is no way to order those options individually.

poorjudd

If you can put them in yourself you can save at least half of that $1000, prolly more.

bastid

I have been waiting for this car for months and I do not see the day I would be driving it home.
With a price of $ 11,850.00 automatic and standard air conditioning I would not need anything more. My choice was going to be the three doors Accent 2007 until the 2006 sedan came out with that $15,000.00 American dollars price.
No way! :P

beantown

"If you can put them in yourself you can save at least half of that $1000, prolly more."

That's only if you apply no value to your labor time. What if it takes you a whole day to do it?

Secondly, the work is covered by the warranty if installed by the factory....this is not the case when you do it yourself.

reddroverr

I am not seeing cruise control offered on the Yaris site.

mwqa

I asked my local dealership in Canada in November (when the Yaris first came to Canada) about cruise control. According to the person I talked to it was a very common question.

They said that it would be offered in January and that those who bought earlier would have it installed when it came in.

I haven’t seen any information on it since, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they are waiting for their competitors (Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc.) to finalize their option packages, before making a decision on what trim it will be offered on.

fdanna

Cruise control isn't offered on Scion xA or xB either. People have been asking for it since Scion's introduction but Toyota doesn't budge. I hope they haven't decided that cars in this class shouldn't have this feature.

nukepooch1

Yeah, it only costs a couple hundred for power window and door lock kits, cruise for $150 or so, the last time I checked...

It's not the money, really, but more of a "what's on the lot" thing. I wouldn't mind buying a stick (in RED!) with A/C and the power opts package (but NO sunroof...I need the headroom, and no "upgraded stereo") but that's almost impossible to find. I refuse to buy an auto trans, and as far as factory stereos, well, no thanks, so that seems to rule out 9/10ths of the cars on a lot (or more). Usually all the cars are auto with power opts...the only stick usually is a complete stripper. I have no problem buying a stripped-out stick with A/C and adding what I want. I actually think it's quite a lot of fun to work on my vehicles...I've always done my own maintenance and repairs...

As far as the time factor, it wouldn't be a big deal to have windows/locks, cruise, and a nice stereo in in a day or two...(counting pizza breaks) Again, it's a fun thing for me.

nippononly

that posts in the Honda Fit thread are running about 10 to 1 vs this thread? I think we can tell which model will get more attention when they both arrive in April/May.

It's too bad they cheaped out on the Yaris hatch's interior (vs the sedan) just to get the price lower. But then, they only want to sell 20% hatches, with 80% sedans, so I guess it was a shrewd move for sales. It just leaves the hatch fans out in the cold a bit.

Nukepooch: I didn't realize you enjoyed that sort of work so much. In that case, it is better to follow your plan regardless of price or savings.

I fear that what you say about manuals only being strippers available in ones and twos will prove to be true with the Yaris, just as it was with the Echo. That just sucks, it is one thing I have always hated about Toyota. Their view is "only poor people buy stick shifts, so cheap out on those models in favor of the automatics, which we have to build loaded up to the max to extract maximum profit".

backy

Actually, the posts in the Fit discussion are running about 2:1 compared to this discussion, but I have noticed that most of the posts in the Fit discussion are by 2-3 people. So I don't know what that says about relative interest. I think there would be a more interest in the Yaris if the 5-door were available in the U.S. along with the sedan.

nukepooch1

Well, I don't think the lack of stickshifts is just a Toyota thing...at least not here in Detroit area. Everything around here is auto, sports cars, economy cars, everything. I've been to a Chevy dealer that had 7 Corvettes, ALL of which were autos. I prefer to shift my own gears...I haven't driven an automatic yet that I didn't get frustrated with...and I hate that manufacturers don't give much choice in the matter.

I think the Yaris' interior is cheaped out to avoid cutting into the Scion's sales (xA, specifically...) and perhaps the Matrix, which is also probably why the 5-door is unavailable. As said above, most of the people on the Fit forum want a 5-door...there's only a few, like me, who want a 3-door.

nippononly

It's not so much the general lack of availability of manuals I object to. I have come to accept that this is the reality of the market today - less than 10% of buyers are buying manuals. What I don't like about Toyota is that you will never see them build nicely equipped manuals with an assortment of content levels. For a model like this, they will build 5 manuals with absolutely nothing at all, and 1 fully loaded with every option you can cram in there, and that's it. What about having a couple with just the convenience package? How about one with the optional alloys? No no, Toyota can't do that, because all manual buyers are just cheapskates, and that's why they have chosen the stick.

In the meantime, for every 5 manuals they build, they will build 50 autos, in a profusion of colors and equipment levels, so you can get close to just buying the stuff you actually want.

Me, I would want the convenience package, cruise, and alloys. Will I be able to get one like that? I would bet my life against it. The best I can hope for is finding one with just the convenience package, then adding cruise and alloys to it. And then driving for ANOTHER 3 years without a tach, because I prefer hatches to sedans. :sick:

mwqa

I don't think the level of interest in the Yaris is comparable to that of the Fit.

The Fit has been out for years in other markets and much of the discussion has been on what is different in the North American model and why. There is also an established base of enthusiasts adding fuel to the fire. There is always someone finding some new nugget of information on some website in some far off country ... plus all the expectations of these enthusiasts has made for lively discussion.

In contrast, the Yaris is a new model, internationally as well as in NA. Not much is know about it in others markets, and to my knowledge it doesn’t have the following that the Fit has (is there a YariiFreak.net out there?).

Talking about nuggets of information in far off lands, a Canadian network has an online test drive of the 4 door Yaris at www.drivingtelevision.com/segmentviewer.php?episode=313&segment=2.

backy

The Yaris has actually been around a long time outside the U.S. But there is a new generation coming out this year, and that is the version the U.S. is getting.

hungarian83

As backy said, the Yaris is in fact not a new model, but what I have noticed at least in Europe (this may just be my experiences) is that people had much more of an interest in the Jazz than the Yaris (previous generation). This may change with the new generation, but in general I think the Jazz has been held in higher regard.

Regarding the previous discussion about cruise control and if the competitors have it...
Honda doesn't do "packages", but the Fit (base) will not have cruise control, while the Fit Sport will. I don't know about Nissan.

mwqa

Let me clarify my remark - there is not much reporting, even internationally, on the NEW generation of the Yaris. The new generation is what is most relevant and there is not much info out there on it.

hungarian83

A rather sizeable nugget of information from a far-off land.

There was a test article of the new 2006 Yaris by a website in Hungary called Totalcar back in December. They have a great website and a weekly TV show. In my opinion its comparable to any of the major US counterparts like Car & Driver, Motortrend, etc.

Obviously, the article is not in English, but if there are any questions you have, I would be glad to answer them based on what I can get out of the article. Of course, the engines they tested aren't going to be available in the US (1.4L 4-cylinder diesel and 1.0L 3-cylinder petrol), but a Yaris is still a Yaris, and much of the general information probably still applies to both markets, just like the US Fit and the European Jazz.

Two other shorter articles include one on the European Yaris TS (sport version), which will most likely have a 1.8L with about 150 HP, and the Yaris sedan, which will for now only be sold in Japan and the US.

nukepooch1

I know what you mean, Nippononly. It's really sad when we're told what we want to buy. I'll probably end up ordering mine... (after test driving a few to make sure it's for me...)

As far as a tach and cruise, etc...it shouldn't be difficult to find a shop that would put the stuff on for you. I know of shops that put cruise and power door locks/windows in, I'm sure they'd do a tach too. My last stick that didn't have one (1993 Toy pickup) I put one in myself for $50. It had three wires...pos, neg, and signal, which ran to the ignition coil...simple.

mwqa

I'll check out www.totalcar.hu

I like two British sites - www.whatcar.com and www.channel4.com/4car. Toyota just started selling the new Yaris in the UK in January and it's in the press over there.

What Car? also publishes a magazine, which is actually distributed in Canada. I'm waiting for the February issue to come out, as it is supposed to have a review of the Yaris.

giantkiller

False. The Yaris is a new model. The old Echo was the Yaris in Europe. The Fit thats gonna be here in Summer or Spring is the same car that is being sold as Jazz in Europe for the past 4 years but with a different engine. Now the question about which car the European hold in high regard. I'm not gonna say which one but the Yaris is the best selling Toyota and [non-permissible content removed] car in Europe hands down.
Check this out, Toyota sold 227K+ Yaris in 2004 while Honda had a combined car/SUV sales of 255K+. 71K+ of that were Jazz'.
The European by the way voted the Echo/Yaris 2000 European car of the year after winning the 1999 [non-permissible content removed] car of the Year.
A quarter of Toyota car sold is a Yaris. In 2005 TUV of Germany ranked the Yaris as the most reliable car for the 4-5 yr old category. And who could ever forget the engine, D-4D. I would choose D-4D any day than Honda's i-DSI.
Enough said.

hungarian83

I admit that the Yaris has been selling more than the Jazz, and everything else you pointed out was correct. The thing I was trying to say is that the Yaris has been largely ignored by the press over the past few years in comparison to the Jazz, which is not a whole lot newer of a design. Also, the Jazz has a very flexible interior that seemed to hit big in Europe. The reason for lack of sales? The price. However, Jazz sales have been increasing every year despite the age and they hit 85k for 2005.

Don't forget that the Fit in Japan hit a pretty big milestone in 2002. It was voted Japan Car of the Year for 2001-2002, and it became the #1 selling car in Japan beating the Corolla which had held the record for 30+ consecutive years. Sure sales have been declining since then, but that was the first time Honda hit #1 in its home market.

Just like the Camry is the best-selling car in the US, it doesn't really stir a lot of passion in the drivers. I'm not at all saying the Yaris isn't a great car, but the Jazz is more fun to drive, and it is more versatile. Also, my original response was to the post about why the Fit discussion seems more lively than this one. Glad to see it's picking back up though.

Correct, the Fit being sold in the US is equipped with the L15A found in much of the world, and it is in fact the original 1st generation model. However, the Yaris is an existing model, but it is a new generation. That's what I meant earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

"I would choose D-4D any day than Honda's i-DSI."
How can you say that when you obviously don't know what the i-DSI is??????
i-DSI is not a diesel engine like the D-4D and you can't compare a gasoline to a diesel engine like that. i-DSI stands for Intelligent Dual & Sequential Ignition which means it has 2 spark plugs per cylinder that fire at intervals for a more complete burn of the gasoline. It equates to less fuel consumption, lower emissions, and very wide high-torque range.

Overall, I'm looking forward to seeing the Yaris on the streets of the US. Just wish they would also sell the 5-door.

giantkiller

Who said the i-DSI is a diesel engine? Did I say that? The Jazz does'nt even come in diesel. Did you know that? I made that statement and comparison because Honda and Honda fans are touting that engine like its the best there is. Well my answer for that is D-4D.

hungarian83

Of course I know the Fit/Jazz doesn't come in diesel...and the i-DSI is a great engine.
Four engines worldwide on that car:
L12A 1246cc i-DSI (Europe)
L13A 1339cc i-DSI (worldwide except NA)
L15A 1497cc i-DSI (Asia)
L15A 1497cc VTEC (worldwide except Europe)

I just find it quite silly to compare a gasoline and a diesel engine. Also, this is the Yaris discussion, so I won't go too far into this, but I don't think I need to list all of the awards, accolades, etc. that Honda has won on its engines...including its FIRST diesel engine which is the 2.2i i-CTDi.
Toyota makes excellent cars. I drive one right now. They are comfortable, reliable, and durable. When it comes to engines though...

Enough said. Back to the Yaris.

dudleyr

Honda does make nice engines. Too bad they have to hamstring them with poor transmissions. Even a 1.8 liter Corolla does better on gas than a 1.5 liter Fit because it has better gearing. A six speed fit (with a real overdrive) would be a marvel of efficiency, unfortunately it does not exist.

Of course Toyota has their issues as well. The 5 door Yaris would be high on my list, but I won't consider a 2 door, and the 4 door sedan has much less room and versatility - may as well just go for the Corolla again.

If only they still made a Corolla wagon. Better mpg than the smaller fit and Yaris with much more room than either. Unfortunately most people buy cars on image (in the U.S.) rather than usefulness, so we rarely see the practical versions of vehicles.

BTW I test drove the new Corolla the other day (finally had a manual in stock) and was amazed at how planted to the road it felt. Much better than my old Corolla - which was borderline dangerous if you needed to make a quick manuever at high speed.

I will still look at a Yaris sedan when they arrive, but right now I don't see much reason to get one over a Corolla.

giantkiller

Like I said you can list down all the variants of the i-DSI engine thrown in that VTEC but at the end of the day they fall behind the D-4D. The econmy of common rail diesel, with clean, quiet and responsiveness performance of a petrol.

giantkiller

"When it comes to engines though... "

Awards? Well just so that you know, Toyota is the second biggest diesel engine manufacturer in the world. And its engine were/ and still being used by car manufacturers in Europe. I'm not even going for the numerous "awards" and 'accolades' of the engine but the sharing of this engine is a testament to how good it is.

giantkiller

They do still make the Corolla hatch and wagon, the Run-X and the Verso. But theyre only available in Europe.

mwqa

Edmonds has a weird sense of humour - putting a Honda Fit ad at the beginning of their Yaris video.

Very bizarre :surprise:

giantkiller

The Fit add is in all the videos, not just Yaris.

ctalk

BTW I test drove the new Corolla the other day (finally had a manual in stock) and was amazed at how planted to the road it felt. Much better than my old Corolla - which was borderline dangerous if you needed to make a quick manuever at high speed.

I had an old Corolla to (2001)

I had to do a quick manuever on the road once, I ended up spinning out of control. The rear end kept wanting to step out. That car was dangerous.

I should test drive the Yaris soon, I hope it doesn't feel like my old Corolla. I doubt it will.

hungarian83

I've spun out twice in my 1991 Corolla. It has a very soft suspension, and lots of body roll. I also drive relatively conservatively, but these were emergency maneauvers. Nevertheless, I have done even more dangerous emergency maneauvers in some other cars that always held firm.

I think the Yaris should have a more stable ride though. Does anyone know how body roll is affected in a rear torsion beam suspension compared to an independent?

ctalk

I remember sitting in my friends 91 Corolla. Every time it would go over a bump, the car would vibrate up and down for the longest time. At the start, it was fun :P But after a while, it was just plain annoying.

tundradude

Not sure about xA, but cruise is a 350 dollar option on the xB.

inharmsway

Did you get your cruise control at your Toyota dealer?
inharmsway

tundradude

No I did not get cruise, but they would have put in on at the distributor. I could not see spending 350 dollars for it.

nippononly

for the Scions is only available as an after-factory option in the southern states, where the distributor is NOT Toyota Motor Sales USA. Same was true for the old Echo.

I would gladly pay $350 for factory cruise in a new Yaris, but it will doubtless not be available in this manner. Maybe as part of a package? Most likely.

tundradude

kdhspyder

Is your empty post a political statement... resident of the Outer Banks, NC...