Cruise control is in the Yaris sedan as part of the power package. The power package includes:
power front and rear windows, power door locks, rear window defogger, ABS, 60/40 folding rear seat, AM/FM CD 4 speaker audio system, and tachometer on A/T. On a base model with steel wheels and automatic transmission the power package price is: $1785.
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
If you live in the outer banks, you are 6 hours from me (obeying speed limits). Always made the joke, a trip to Pittsburgh is the same distance as the outer banks, and I live in the middle of he state.
is why Toyota went to the trouble and expense of differentiating the sedan from the hatch SO MUCH. There is only a $1000 difference in price. Yet they have basically made the hatch the poor stepsister of the line, stripping out interior content and equipment in rabid fashion, and reducing options as well.
Yet both cars are based on the same mechanicals, carry the same model name, and despite rummors buzzing around, will probably be assembled at the same place. Why make them so different?
I still think it's because Toyota is convinced that only cheap people buy hatchbacks, and because it thinks that those buyers will be OK with a cheap-feeling, bare-bones car because they paid relatively little.
You only have to look at the Fit to see an automaker that took a completely different approach to this end of the market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"You only have to look at the Fit to see an automaker that took a completely different approach to this end of the market."
I don't know if I'd categorize a single-model, two-similar-trim-level, zero options available car as a "completely different approach." Only Scion takes "optionus unavailablus" farther by saying, "Here's the car, pick a color." Toyota at least offers SOME options to choose from, but that's like choosing to be beaten with a rubber hose instead of a baseball bat. I still wish for an ala-carte menu, such as MINI offers.
And for those who are bemoaning the loss of cruise control, it (as with all power accessories) can be added aftermarket for less than it would cost as a factory option. It still stinks to high heaven that it's not offered, but I wouldn't have a take-it-or-leave-it attitude toward the Yaris (or base Fit) solely on the lack of cruise control!
have Toyota cruise control, even if it could be installed by the dealer, than an aftermarket system. In my experience, it is less likely to fail later on, and if anything does go wrong, the dealer can fix it if its Toyota cruise.
My remarks concerning the Fit were meant in the sense that they didn't strip their base model to the bare metal to sell it at $13K. In fact, just off the top of my head, I think the Fit will be better equipped at $13K than either the Yaris sedan or hatch - well, skip the hatch entirely, as it lacks at any price equipment the Fit will have or can be added by the dealer. But the base Fit will be better equipped than a $13K Yaris sedan, ditto the Fit Sport and a $15K Yaris sedan.
Anyway, Toyota could yet surprise in a pleasant way here, nothing is set in stone until the car is actually in the pipeline and pricing has been set officially. So I will continue to wait and see....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I guess it all depends on what your perspective. The base Scion xa has about everything I would want, save cruise. The only other thing is an optional cover for that goofy looking dash. So you are out the door at about 14k.
You could well be right on the Fit vs Yaris. I sat in a Yaris hatch. I didn't think it was all that bad. I mean, I didn't get splinters from the dash board. Add the power pack and you are at about 12k, plus destination, tax and license.
Course I just speak for myself. I want the car that is comfortable for my 6'3' frame. good on gas, has decent cargo space, performs reasonably, is reliable, not too ugly, and priced as a good value. I haven't decided yet, since not much info is available on the Fit. But if we are talking 15k+, I am a half step away from a Corolla.
"I haven't decided yet, since not much info is available on the Fit."
You can actually get plenty of information on the European market Jazz, which apart from a few differences is virtually identical to the US market Fit. The Fit fits (no pun intended) most of the requirements you listed.
Does anyone know about how much the packages for the Yaris will be? I see the base is $10,950 for the manual, and $11,850 for the automatic, but that is the only pricing I see on the website. I am curious to know how much the Convenience and Power packages are. Also, what it would cost for the safety equipment addition (side and side-curtain airbags). Thanks!
I don't think the pricing is official, but I would bet a lot of money it will come within a hair of the following:
Convenience package: $800. Power package: $1200 Side airbags and curtains: $650
And of course, you can't get the power package without the convenience package, making the effective price, if you want power windows or perhaps ABS, $2000. So, around $13K for the Yaris hatch manual with those two packages, at which point it still would not have cruise or the extra airbags, and would have steel 14" wheels. I assume alloys would cost around $500 extra, and cruise around $300 if it were offered as a stand-alone option, so the one I would want would be around the $13,8 price point (without SAB). Of course, it appears likely cruise will NOT be a stand-alone option, and in fact will be unavailable on the hatch. Who knows if they will build any hatches with alloys, since it is the bargain basement model of the pair.
Or I could get the base Fit for about the same price (spending $1000 or so at the dealer having cruise and alloys installed), which would have all the same equipment, the "magic" rear seat, two extra doors, and all the safety equipment.
Actually, I can't decide if I would rather have a completely stripped car, which once again (echoes of the Echo) seems to be the best deal among all the Yarii permutations, or a fully loaded one including keyless entry, which I rather like. But if I go fully loaded, I will get the Fit Sport, which will have the tach the Yaris hatch doesn't have.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Still no pricing on the Fit that I can see. Perhaps it is a little more attractive in person, or the funcionality will trump all. You do seem to get an extra couple of mpg's with the Yaris.
We'll see.
I swear I've seen the power package for the Yaris at $1000, but I can't seem to find it now.
So basically when you exclude destination, taxes, registration, etc...
You get almost the identical pricing for the Fit and Yaris. I have already ordered my Fit (base) with 5-speed manual and although the official pricing hasn't been announced, they did say it would be between $13000 and $14000. Looks like a "well-equipped" Yaris will be $13600.
I want the versatility of a 5-door and I am 99.9% sure of my Fit purchase, but I do plan to test drive the Yaris as well.
Of course, the nice thing is that you know you will always find a Fit with everything on it (AC, CD, PL/PW/PM), while this might not always be the case with the Yaris. Downside for the Fit is if you actually want the $11k stripped version, oh well.
And of course the Yaris hatch is a 3-door, whereas the Fit is a 5-door.
Take all those prices I quoted, add about $1000, and you have the price for the manual shift Yaris sedan, which is more expensive than the hatch. But at least it has a standard tach on manual shifters. And I bet it will be easy to find fully gussied-up versions of the sedan, whereas the hatch may be hard to find, period.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I’m having trouble seeing the Yaris hatchback competing against the Fit.
The Yaris (in America) is a 3 door hatch while the Fit is a 5 door. Having only 3 doors knocks out a lot of potential buyers, myself included. Bad Honda marketing aside, isn't a 3 door more of a sport model and the 5 door more oriented to young families?
Even when the 5 door is offered, as it is in Canada, the Yaris is a much more expensive car.
You have to buy the RS trim, starting at around $17,615 ($15,000US), to have 60/40 sliding rear seats and ABS. The in Canada only DX Fit, including the magic seats and ABS, is reportedly going to be $14,000 ($12,000US). I would argue that you're not getting much more for the extra money.
Neither of these cars have air conditioning, cruise control or a sunroof.
If you want air conditioning, you could get the Yaris 5 door LE with ABS, air conditioning, power windows and keyless entry ... but missing the 60/40 sliding rear bench. It's only $16,500 ($14,000US), but which is still a significant difference.
I cant understand what it is some of the people that post here on these forums want. On one hand, you have the bunch that complain that toyota doesnt sell any stripped out cheap cars, that they can hardly find anything "without unneccesary options". Then they go on to complain that an economy entry level sub compact cant be had with cruise control keyless entry etc. C'mon people!!!!!!!!!
In any case, comparably equipped yaris & fit models will be around the same price, case closed. Toyota wont sell a 5door hatch, as they already have the scion xA. Its virtually the same car, and it will be face-lifed/replaced within the next year or so, theres your toyota 5 door hatch. Toyota as a company knows what its doing, if you feel honda offers you something better, by all means buy it and stop bitching.
On that note, i'm willing to bet that Toyota/TRD will offer a yaris in the 15k price range with the 2ZZ 1.8L engine and probably fully optioned, wheels etc whatever. At least Europe will be getting this T-sport model(pretty much sure), look for the concept at the Geneva motor show. There's your competition for the fit "sport" right there.
"Toyota wont sell a 5door hatch, as they already have the scion xA. Its virtually the same car"
First of all, this is a discussion, so the idea is that people actually talk about things with differing viewpoints. If we all agreed, this entire forum would have 20 posts instead of 900 and it would be terribly boring.
Second, just because the Yaris 5 door and Scion xA are based on the same underlying car, doesn't mean they are virtually the same. I would have gladly considered a Yaris 5-door, while I have no interest in the Scion xA. Same goes for many people on this forum. In addition, look at the Honda Accord and Acura TSX. They are both Accords (therefore "virtually" the same, but still different) and yet people want each one for a different reason.
The point that I’m rather awkwardly trying to make is that I don’t see how Toyota Canada can keep its pricing and option structure the same and compete with a car like the Fit at the lower trims. Toyota also seems to have stacked the deck against direct competition by not offering the 5 door hatch in America.
In Canada, the Fit is priced from $14,000 to 19,000CDN. Will I pay $5,000 more for basically the same car for options I don’t think are essential When there is a mature aftermarket? Would you?
Let me rant further: Everyone is seems to be dismissing the fact that people are leasing cars now. If I was leasing and not expecting to keep a car for 10 years, then the competition gets a lot more interesting.
Quality falls, but so do prices. All of a sudden you’re considering the Aveo, the Rio5, the Accent 3 door, the Versa and, yes, the Scion xA. Like it or not, the Aveo is selling exceedingly well and the Koreans are making good cars which are getting better.
The best thing to do to compete at this level is to offer EVERYTHING as an option. Offer a base trim and allow people to put anything they want on it. No packages but no discounts either.
Then they go on to complain that an economy entry level sub compact cant be had with cruise control keyless entry etc. -------------------------------
I had a 2000 Focus ZX3 and I really liked it but it had no power windows and no cruise. I was determined that my next car would have those options. Any car that doesn't offer cruise is losing sales IMO.
I think it's a mistake that Scion doesn't offer cruise in the A and B. Unless things have changed.
I would have gladly considered a Yaris 5-door, while I have no interest in the Scion xA.
Care to share why? If it has to do with looks, the xA is due for a resdesign sometime soon. The yaris is barely even out and this car may debut in the same time frame as the fit. That is my point. A 5 door yaris is not necessary.
""Yeah, it only costs a couple hundred for power window and door lock kits, cruise for $150 or so, the last time I checked... ""
It can't be that cheap, can it? Certainly not for Toyota factory aftermarket parts?
No, not Toyota factory parts. I wouldn't pay for factory anything that didn't come on the car because you are going to PAY! In addition, there might not be a "Factory Toyota cruise control." I've heard of people paying $350+ for "Scion cruise control," which is nuts because there IS no Scion cruise...The dealers install the same "Rostra brand" cruise available on EBAY and charge thru the nose for it.
Most of the stuff on the site is for Ford/Chevy/etc...but it gives an idea. If you want, go to a local auto customizing shop for specific prices...Not sure what they charge for labor, as I've always done my own work. Just shop around...
'...have Toyota cruise control, even if it could be installed by the dealer, than an aftermarket system. In my experience, it is less likely to fail later on, and if anything does go wrong, the dealer can fix it if its Toyota cruise. "
Again, more than likely, what you would get from the dealer OR aftermarket is something like this...
Rostra is about the standard, from what I understand...but through the dealer means dealer prices. Also, if you have the dealer install anything, MAKE SURE of the warranty! A lot of dealers install and sell aftermarket parts on their cars that will NOT be honored under the car's warranty!
"The best thing to do to compete at this level is to offer EVERYTHING as an option. Offer a base trim and allow people to put anything they want on it. No packages but no discounts either."
"any car that doesn't offer cruise is losing sales IMO. I think it's a mistake that Scion doesn't offer cruise in the A and B."
I think it shuld be offered from factory, however, the xB's sales are far and above what they originally thought...lack of cruise hasn't been slowing them down much at all... go to http://www.scionlife.com/...those who want cruise put it on or have it put on...it's not a big deal! It's not swapping engines or converting from automatic to manual transmissions...it's just a few wires, a couple screws, and some sticky tape...have it put in in a couple hours on Sat afternoon, including pizza time.
thanks for the info nukepooch. I wasn't aware that cruise was such an easy operation. the $350 someone quoted sounded pretty good as i was quoted 6 or 7 hundred from a dealer once. Different car company, and cruise was offered.
we can all have a wish-list for what and how we would equip a car. The makers do research and have focus groups to figure out what and how to offer things. The more complexity they have, the more expense in manufacture and inventory. Chances are if you want power windows, you are going to want power locks as well. A lot of people drive a car off the lot...that is what the dealers want to happen. Fall in love with car, capitulate in negotiations, drive car away..done and done. Scion has a bit of a different philosophy.
The best thing to do to compete at this level is to offer EVERYTHING as an option. Offer a base trim and allow people to put anything they want on it. No packages but no discounts either.
This is not feasible. It's much too expensive to produce everything for everybody. So you choose your battlefields, that is the purpose of marketing. It is one where Toyota is equally as good as their vehicles. Honda has another production/marketing view which is also successful - no options! All the vehicles are exactly the same except for color and one or two major accessories, Navi for example.
The purpose of the Yaris, at least here in the States, is to insulate the Corolla from having to fight the Korean menace . The Yaris is a Hyundai fighter. It along with the Scions allows the Corolla at 300000+ units annually to remain profitable and keep the prices in the mid teens. The frugal or initial buyer can choose between 4 models in the very low teens before 'stepping up' to a Corolla.
Also there are nearly twice as many used cars sold in the NA market as there are new cars. The typical 'price point' for these UC buyers is $10-12K. Now if you are in the market for a 1st vehicle for a college student or a good basic commuter would you go for a $12K 4 y.o. Camry, Taurus, Sonata or a brand new Yaris? This segment is HUGE! and it has nothing to do with specs and features. Price and reliability are the No's 1 & 2 reasons to buy and everything else is last. Pretty astute marketing.
A typical used vehicle buyer will come to a store and say something to the effect of 'Any color, A/C and heater, AT usually, under $12K, does it have ANY warranty?, low miles if possible'. "Have you heard about the Yaris?"
I've offered two dealers $10,950.00 for a Yaris and they both said I can't have one. (We understand they won't be in the US until March or April.) They say that Toyota's options packaging schemes are REQUIRED and run the price up to $12,500+/- minimum.
They can have my $10,950.00, I'll even pay the $590 freight, but that's it. If they can't sell me a car for the "advertised" price, screw them.
"They say that Toyota's options packaging schemes are REQUIRED and run the price up to $12,500+/- minimum. "
I test drove a 2005 Mustang right after they came out...dealer told me he could let me have it for $1000 over sticker with the optional, dealer-added $2500 tire/wheel package. I said I'd think about it, but would forget the tire/wheel package. He said I couldn't buy one without the optional package.
Interesting how optional packages are not always optional to some dealers.
Sounds like they are seeing demand. Perhaps when the Fit and others hit the streets, supply pressures will ease. They probably figured since you made an offer before a test drive and before the cars were in stock, that you were "anxious." Of course dealers do vary. I wonder if the new Scion will have the same body style?
My Father-in-Law, who was a great guy and a helluva banjo player, told me many years ago: a) Never buy anything when you absolutely have to have it and, b) Never sell anything when you absolutely have to have the money.
I have cash and I don't need another car. What could be better?
I've turned in to a minimalist in my middle-age and I think a stripped Yaris would be cool. Beyond that, I need it like another hole in the head.
My two cents: If you want an entry-level car, you're probably going to have to get a stripped model. The loaded Yarii in Canada easily cost as much as stripped cars in the next class (ie Matrix). What are you going to do? Buy the loaded smaller car? Or get a stripped model of the next class up, with a few essential options, for about the same money?
The Yaris and the Honda Fit are 'premium subcompacts', coming, I'm afraid, with premium prices.
Pity you guys aren’t in Canada – I see 5 door Yarii all over the place. The 3 door is a rare bird here.
I may have been hard on the interior. Every car I’ve seen on the road has a more appealing centre column (where the AC is). The Yaris I saw at my local autoshow had one made out of a very ugly shiny, ‘garbage bag black’ plastic. Why they would put it in their showroom RS 5 door is a mystery. Guess that’s so you'll buy the $300CDN ‘dash kit’ option. :P
I'm thinking along the same lines as you. That is what appeals to me about the Yaris - the potential to get the lightest car with the least equipment available in the market today. Although I must admit to a certain fondness for a CD player and a rear defogger in a hatchback.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Has anyone in the US put a deposit and order down for the Yaris yet? This is quite common over at the Fit forum, but I just don't remember seeing it here ever.
One dealer said that with a deposit, I'd get one off the first truck, but again, he was wanting premium money. So they will take deposits, but you have to agree to their price.
hehe your father in law is wise..banjo paying aside ; )
It is against my religion to pay sticker or sticker + for a car. I am sure you'll get what you want in the not too distant. Maybe even knock a couple bucks off the sticker by waving cash in their faces. With a stripped model, i suppose i could pay full sticker if I really like it.
This thread isn't quite so active as the Fit thread. Seems to be a religeous experience for some folks over there. I will wait and see, test drive both cars, then go from there.
If the oil price continues to slide and the other competition cars come on the market, they may be calling us with deals.
General Motors is also likely to be discounting their cars again this summer, helping to keep prices down.
Preordering for the Fit is also probably being fueled by people who have driven the identical car in other markets (Europe, Asia, etc). The 2nd generation Yaris doesn't have that advantage.
Anyone have any real stats on the Yaris sedan? I just picked up a 2006 Toyota brochure at the Chicago Auto Show, but in the two pages on the Yaris, it has no measurements. It looked very close in size to the Corolla, and the back seat felt about as roomy. Naturally, the Yaris and Corolla were on opposite sides of the Toyota display, so it wasn't easy to compare. Basically, I'm wondering if a.) they're close in size, and perhaps more importantly b.) if by the time I option out a loaded Yaris 'S', I wouldn't just be better off getting a Corolla (don't forget the 20hp, too).
I thought the Yaris hatch was cool for someone who absolutely wants something tiny, inexpensive and basic, but couldn't help but wonder why anyone would option one out--I mean, you have to buy a PACKAGE just to get a rear defrost (a MUST in Chicago) or any stereo, so that'll put you around $12k for a manual, if you can find one with just that one package. If you want power stuff, or god forbid something like ABS (if you can find one), you'd certainly be over $13k--at that price, an xA seems like a much better idea.
I guess what I'm saying is, if history is any indication, I'd probably be more inclined to just get an xA than mess with Toyota's usual 'you can't have this with this, you can't have this one little thing without all this other stuff, you can't have this except in this region and you can't have this at all on this model' BS. On that note, anyone know if you'll be able to get a sunroof on a Yaris sedan? I saw no mention of one, so I'm guessing not.
Re the Fit: I sat in one at the auto show and noticed NO height adjustment for the driver's seat (didn't notice if the Yaris had one, to be fair). This is usually a requirement, unless the seating position is perfect to begin with, which is rare.
Why is the xA a better idea? Even at $14k for a Yaris S with the safety gear, its a brand new car for $14K IN THE YEAR 2006!! And it gets 39 MPG on the highway, would have all the latest safety gear, is about as large inside as the previous generation Corolla, and is fairly stylish to boot.
How much do people want from a car? Sheesh? Maybe you should consider buying a Certified Used if you want more for your money.
Fit Sport has the seat height adjustment, it is just the base model that lacks it. I would assume the Yaris will make this available or standard too. These days it is pretty common.
The loaded Yaris will have factory cruise available that you still can't get on the xA, as well as factory alloys that you don't buy from the dealer as accessories, having then two sets of wheels. Oh yeah, Yaris will have optional keyless with the remote integrated into the key, all the current rage. :-)
However, I won't say you are totally off-base here - in many ways the Yaris will be the 3- and 4-door versions of the xA 5-door. We don't yet know what handling will be like - will probably be less sporty (and therefore more comfy, if you like that sort of thing) than the xA, I would think. Base model still gets 14" rims, right? Compare that to the 15" rims that come standard on the xA.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yadda-yadda... the mandatory packaging of options just sucks. That's it.
I want to be able to scoot down to road for $10k. What other reason is there for an ugly little turd like the Yaris (or the Xa for that matter)? A thousand here, a thousand there... eventually it adds up to real money.
For $15k, one can get a new Corolla (with better MPG, BTW), a choice of forty different sedans, coupes and mini-vans less than three years old or two low-mileage '98 Lincoln Mark VIII's. I don't have to give my money to anyone, especially the run-of-the-mill arrogant Toyota salesmen. I am confident that after the fever breaks, everything will cool down.
while I get the used car comparison, let's face it - people who would consider buying used will always be financially better off buying used, and yes, they can get "more" car in the process.
If you are considering buying new, you almost certainly won't have to spend $15K to get ANY Yaris, but the one you could get at $14K will be much better equipped, more maneuverable, and more fuel efficient than the new Corolla CE you could get for the same money.
Now as for the base $11K Yaris hatch, I agree with you - zipping off down the road in a brand new Toyota for $11K (or perhaps $10-10.5K, depending on the popularity?) is an attractive notion. I just wish Toyota had found a way to stick a CD player in there for the base price. I would go without the rear defogger if they had done that, and go for the bare-bones model.
After having made the mistake of buying a first-year model a couple of times in the past, I am now firmly committed to waiting for a while to buy. Maybe even until year four, when they will do the mid-cycle refresh, and perhaps the defogger or the CD will finally be standard on all models.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
Cruise control is in the Yaris sedan as part of the power package. The power package includes:
power front and rear windows, power door locks, rear window defogger, ABS, 60/40 folding rear seat, AM/FM CD 4 speaker audio system, and tachometer on A/T.
On a base model with steel wheels and automatic transmission the power package price is: $1785.
I also dislike that Toyota seems to be ignoring the hatch as much as possible.
No cruise and no tach.
Yuck.
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Review your vehicle
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yet both cars are based on the same mechanicals, carry the same model name, and despite rummors buzzing around, will probably be assembled at the same place. Why make them so different?
I still think it's because Toyota is convinced that only cheap people buy hatchbacks, and because it thinks that those buyers will be OK with a cheap-feeling, bare-bones car because they paid relatively little.
You only have to look at the Fit to see an automaker that took a completely different approach to this end of the market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't know if I'd categorize a single-model, two-similar-trim-level, zero options available car as a "completely different approach." Only Scion takes "optionus unavailablus" farther by saying, "Here's the car, pick a color." Toyota at least offers SOME options to choose from, but that's like choosing to be beaten with a rubber hose instead of a baseball bat. I still wish for an ala-carte menu, such as MINI offers.
And for those who are bemoaning the loss of cruise control, it (as with all power accessories) can be added aftermarket for less than it would cost as a factory option. It still stinks to high heaven that it's not offered, but I wouldn't have a take-it-or-leave-it attitude toward the Yaris (or base Fit) solely on the lack of cruise control!
I had some fun and clicked a bunch of options. I was able to build a car for $21,434.95.
lol, not a chance in hell i would pay that for a scion.
""Yeah, it only costs a couple hundred for power window and door lock kits, cruise for $150 or so, the last time I checked... ""
It can't be that cheap, can it? Certainly not for Toyota factory aftermarket parts?
What is your source for parts?
My remarks concerning the Fit were meant in the sense that they didn't strip their base model to the bare metal to sell it at $13K. In fact, just off the top of my head, I think the Fit will be better equipped at $13K than either the Yaris sedan or hatch - well, skip the hatch entirely, as it lacks at any price equipment the Fit will have or can be added by the dealer. But the base Fit will be better equipped than a $13K Yaris sedan, ditto the Fit Sport and a $15K Yaris sedan.
Anyway, Toyota could yet surprise in a pleasant way here, nothing is set in stone until the car is actually in the pipeline and pricing has been set officially. So I will continue to wait and see....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You could well be right on the Fit vs Yaris.
I sat in a Yaris hatch. I didn't think it was all that bad. I mean, I didn't get splinters from the dash board. Add the power pack and you are at about 12k, plus destination, tax and license.
Course I just speak for myself. I want the car that is comfortable for my 6'3' frame. good on gas, has decent cargo space, performs reasonably, is reliable, not too ugly, and priced as a good value. I haven't decided yet, since not much info is available on the Fit. But if we are talking 15k+, I am a half step away from a Corolla.
You can actually get plenty of information on the European market Jazz, which apart from a few differences is virtually identical to the US market Fit. The Fit fits (no pun intended) most of the requirements you listed.
As for information on the US model:
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2150
Does anyone know about how much the packages for the Yaris will be? I see the base is $10,950 for the manual, and $11,850 for the automatic, but that is the only pricing I see on the website. I am curious to know how much the Convenience and Power packages are. Also, what it would cost for the safety equipment addition (side and side-curtain airbags).
Thanks!
Convenience package: $800.
Power package: $1200
Side airbags and curtains: $650
And of course, you can't get the power package without the convenience package, making the effective price, if you want power windows or perhaps ABS, $2000. So, around $13K for the Yaris hatch manual with those two packages, at which point it still would not have cruise or the extra airbags, and would have steel 14" wheels. I assume alloys would cost around $500 extra, and cruise around $300 if it were offered as a stand-alone option, so the one I would want would be around the $13,8 price point (without SAB). Of course, it appears likely cruise will NOT be a stand-alone option, and in fact will be unavailable on the hatch. Who knows if they will build any hatches with alloys, since it is the bargain basement model of the pair.
Or I could get the base Fit for about the same price (spending $1000 or so at the dealer having cruise and alloys installed), which would have all the same equipment, the "magic" rear seat, two extra doors, and all the safety equipment.
Actually, I can't decide if I would rather have a completely stripped car, which once again (echoes of the Echo) seems to be the best deal among all the Yarii permutations, or a fully loaded one including keyless entry, which I rather like. But if I go fully loaded, I will get the Fit Sport, which will have the tach the Yaris hatch doesn't have.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Still no pricing on the Fit that I can see. Perhaps it is a little more attractive in person, or the funcionality will trump all. You do seem to get an extra couple of mpg's with the Yaris.
We'll see.
I swear I've seen the power package for the Yaris at $1000, but I can't seem to find it now.
So basically when you exclude destination, taxes, registration, etc...
You get almost the identical pricing for the Fit and Yaris. I have already ordered my Fit (base) with 5-speed manual and although the official pricing hasn't been announced, they did say it would be between $13000 and $14000. Looks like a "well-equipped" Yaris will be $13600.
I want the versatility of a 5-door and I am 99.9% sure of my Fit purchase, but I do plan to test drive the Yaris as well.
Of course, the nice thing is that you know you will always find a Fit with everything on it (AC, CD, PL/PW/PM), while this might not always be the case with the Yaris. Downside for the Fit is if you actually want the $11k stripped version, oh well.
And of course the Yaris hatch is a 3-door, whereas the Fit is a 5-door.
Take all those prices I quoted, add about $1000, and you have the price for the manual shift Yaris sedan, which is more expensive than the hatch. But at least it has a standard tach on manual shifters. And I bet it will be easy to find fully gussied-up versions of the sedan, whereas the hatch may be hard to find, period.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Yaris (in America) is a 3 door hatch while the Fit is a 5 door. Having only 3 doors knocks out a lot of potential buyers, myself included. Bad Honda marketing aside, isn't a 3 door more of a sport model and the 5 door more oriented to young families?
Even when the 5 door is offered, as it is in Canada, the Yaris is a much more expensive car.
You have to buy the RS trim, starting at around $17,615 ($15,000US), to have 60/40 sliding rear seats and ABS. The in Canada only DX Fit, including the magic seats and ABS, is reportedly going to be $14,000 ($12,000US). I would argue that you're not getting much more for the extra money.
Neither of these cars have air conditioning, cruise control or a sunroof.
If you want air conditioning, you could get the Yaris 5 door LE with ABS, air conditioning, power windows and keyless entry ... but missing the 60/40 sliding rear bench. It's only $16,500 ($14,000US), but which is still a significant difference.
C'mon people!!!!!!!!!
In any case, comparably equipped yaris & fit models will be around the same price, case closed. Toyota wont sell a 5door hatch, as they already have the scion xA. Its virtually the same car, and it will be face-lifed/replaced within the next year or so, theres your toyota 5 door hatch. Toyota as a company knows what its doing, if you feel honda offers you something better, by all means buy it and stop bitching.
On that note, i'm willing to bet that Toyota/TRD will offer a yaris in the 15k price range with the 2ZZ 1.8L engine and probably fully optioned, wheels etc whatever. At least Europe will be getting this T-sport model(pretty much sure), look for the concept at the Geneva motor show. There's your competition for the fit "sport" right there.
First of all, this is a discussion, so the idea is that people actually talk about things with differing viewpoints. If we all agreed, this entire forum would have 20 posts instead of 900 and it would be terribly boring.
Second, just because the Yaris 5 door and Scion xA are based on the same underlying car, doesn't mean they are virtually the same. I would have gladly considered a Yaris 5-door, while I have no interest in the Scion xA. Same goes for many people on this forum. In addition, look at the Honda Accord and Acura TSX. They are both Accords (therefore "virtually" the same, but still different) and yet people want each one for a different reason.
In Canada, the Fit is priced from $14,000 to 19,000CDN. Will I pay $5,000 more for basically the same car for options I don’t think are essential When there is a mature aftermarket? Would you?
Let me rant further: Everyone is seems to be dismissing the fact that people are leasing cars now. If I was leasing and not expecting to keep a car for 10 years, then the competition gets a lot more interesting.
Quality falls, but so do prices. All of a sudden you’re considering the Aveo, the Rio5, the Accent 3 door, the Versa and, yes, the Scion xA. Like it or not, the Aveo is selling exceedingly well and the Koreans are making good cars which are getting better.
The best thing to do to compete at this level is to offer EVERYTHING as an option. Offer a base trim and allow people to put anything they want on it. No packages but no discounts either.
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I had a 2000 Focus ZX3 and I really liked it but it had no power windows and no cruise. I was determined that my next car would have those options. Any car that doesn't offer cruise is losing sales IMO.
I think it's a mistake that Scion doesn't offer cruise in the A and B. Unless things have changed.
Care to share why? If it has to do with looks, the xA is due for a resdesign sometime soon. The yaris is barely even out and this car may debut in the same time frame as the fit. That is my point. A 5 door yaris is not necessary.
It can't be that cheap, can it? Certainly not for Toyota factory aftermarket parts?
No, not Toyota factory parts. I wouldn't pay for factory anything that didn't come on the car because you are going to PAY! In addition, there might not be a "Factory Toyota cruise control." I've heard of people paying $350+ for "Scion cruise control," which is nuts because there IS no Scion cruise...The dealers install the same "Rostra brand" cruise available on EBAY and charge thru the nose for it.
I've had good luck in the past with these parts...
http://www.a1electric.com/
Most of the stuff on the site is for Ford/Chevy/etc...but it gives an idea. If you want, go to a local auto customizing shop for specific prices...Not sure what they charge for labor, as I've always done my own work. Just shop around...
Again, more than likely, what you would get from the dealer OR aftermarket is something like this...
http://www.rostra.com/cruise-control.htm
Rostra is about the standard, from what I understand...but through the dealer means dealer prices. Also, if you have the dealer install anything, MAKE SURE of the warranty! A lot of dealers install and sell aftermarket parts on their cars that will NOT be honored under the car's warranty!
Thank you!
I think it's a mistake that Scion doesn't offer cruise in the A and B."
I think it shuld be offered from factory, however, the xB's sales are far and above what they originally thought...lack of cruise hasn't been slowing them down much at all...
go to http://www.scionlife.com/...those who want cruise put it on or have it put on...it's not a big deal! It's not swapping engines or converting from automatic to manual transmissions...it's just a few wires, a couple screws, and some sticky tape...have it put in in a couple hours on Sat afternoon, including pizza time.
I'll shut up now!
we can all have a wish-list for what and how we would equip a car. The makers do research and have focus groups to figure out what and how to offer things. The more complexity they have, the more expense in manufacture and inventory. Chances are if you want power windows, you are going to want power locks as well. A lot of people drive a car off the lot...that is what the dealers want to happen. Fall in love with car, capitulate in negotiations, drive car away..done and done. Scion has a bit of a different philosophy.
Turns out the scion has sold quite well, and toyota knew what they were doing.
This is not feasible. It's much too expensive to produce everything for everybody. So you choose your battlefields, that is the purpose of marketing. It is one where Toyota is equally as good as their vehicles. Honda has another production/marketing view which is also successful - no options! All the vehicles are exactly the same except for color and one or two major accessories, Navi for example.
The purpose of the Yaris, at least here in the States, is to insulate the Corolla from having to fight the Korean menace
Also there are nearly twice as many used cars sold in the NA market as there are new cars. The typical 'price point' for these UC buyers is $10-12K. Now if you are in the market for a 1st vehicle for a college student or a good basic commuter would you go for a $12K 4 y.o. Camry, Taurus, Sonata or a brand new Yaris? This segment is HUGE! and it has nothing to do with specs and features. Price and reliability are the No's 1 & 2 reasons to buy and everything else is last. Pretty astute marketing.
A typical used vehicle buyer will come to a store and say something to the effect of 'Any color, A/C and heater, AT usually, under $12K, does it have ANY warranty?, low miles if possible'.
"Have you heard about the Yaris?"
I've offered two dealers $10,950.00 for a Yaris and they both said I can't have one. (We understand they won't be in the US until March or April.) They say that Toyota's options packaging schemes are REQUIRED and run the price up to $12,500+/- minimum.
They can have my $10,950.00, I'll even pay the $590 freight, but that's it. If they can't sell me a car for the "advertised" price, screw them.
I test drove a 2005 Mustang right after they came out...dealer told me he could let me have it for $1000 over sticker with the optional, dealer-added $2500 tire/wheel package. I said I'd think about it, but would forget the tire/wheel package. He said I couldn't buy one without the optional package.
Interesting how optional packages are not always optional to some dealers.
I have cash and I don't need another car. What could be better?
I've turned in to a minimalist in my middle-age and I think a stripped Yaris would be cool. Beyond that, I need it like another hole in the head.
My two cents: If you want an entry-level car, you're probably going to have to get a stripped model. The loaded Yarii in Canada easily cost as much as stripped cars in the next class (ie Matrix). What are you going to do? Buy the loaded smaller car? Or get a stripped model of the next class up, with a few essential options, for about the same money?
The Yaris and the Honda Fit are 'premium subcompacts', coming, I'm afraid, with premium prices.
Pity you guys aren’t in Canada – I see 5 door Yarii all over the place. The 3 door is a rare bird here.
I may have been hard on the interior. Every car I’ve seen on the road has a more appealing centre column (where the AC is). The Yaris I saw at my local autoshow had one made out of a very ugly shiny, ‘garbage bag black’ plastic. Why they would put it in their showroom RS 5 door is a mystery. Guess that’s so you'll buy the $300CDN ‘dash kit’ option. :P
I'm thinking along the same lines as you. That is what appeals to me about the Yaris - the potential to get the lightest car with the least equipment available in the market today. Although I must admit to a certain fondness for a CD player and a rear defogger in a hatchback.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It is against my religion to pay sticker or sticker + for a car. I am sure you'll get what you want in the not too distant. Maybe even knock a couple bucks off the sticker by waving cash in their faces. With a stripped model, i suppose i could pay full sticker if I really like it.
This thread isn't quite so active as the Fit thread. Seems to be a religeous experience for some folks over there. I will wait and see, test drive both cars, then go from there.
If the oil price continues to slide and the other competition cars come on the market, they may be calling us with deals.
Preordering for the Fit is also probably being fueled by people who have driven the identical car in other markets (Europe, Asia, etc). The 2nd generation Yaris doesn't have that advantage.
I thought the Yaris hatch was cool for someone who absolutely wants something tiny, inexpensive and basic, but couldn't help but wonder why anyone would option one out--I mean, you have to buy a PACKAGE just to get a rear defrost (a MUST in Chicago) or any stereo, so that'll put you around $12k for a manual, if you can find one with just that one package. If you want power stuff, or god forbid something like ABS (if you can find one), you'd certainly be over $13k--at that price, an xA seems like a much better idea.
I guess what I'm saying is, if history is any indication, I'd probably be more inclined to just get an xA than mess with Toyota's usual 'you can't have this with this, you can't have this one little thing without all this other stuff, you can't have this except in this region and you can't have this at all on this model' BS. On that note, anyone know if you'll be able to get a sunroof on a Yaris sedan? I saw no mention of one, so I'm guessing not.
Re the Fit: I sat in one at the auto show and noticed NO height adjustment for the driver's seat (didn't notice if the Yaris had one, to be fair). This is usually a requirement, unless the seating position is perfect to begin with, which is rare.
How much do people want from a car? Sheesh? Maybe you should consider buying a Certified Used if you want more for your money.
~alpha
The loaded Yaris will have factory cruise available that you still can't get on the xA, as well as factory alloys that you don't buy from the dealer as accessories, having then two sets of wheels. Oh yeah, Yaris will have optional keyless with the remote integrated into the key, all the current rage. :-)
However, I won't say you are totally off-base here - in many ways the Yaris will be the 3- and 4-door versions of the xA 5-door. We don't yet know what handling will be like - will probably be less sporty (and therefore more comfy, if you like that sort of thing) than the xA, I would think. Base model still gets 14" rims, right? Compare that to the 15" rims that come standard on the xA.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I want to be able to scoot down to road for $10k. What other reason is there for an ugly little turd like the Yaris (or the Xa for that matter)? A thousand here, a thousand there... eventually it adds up to real money.
For $15k, one can get a new Corolla (with better MPG, BTW), a choice of forty different sedans, coupes and mini-vans less than three years old or two low-mileage '98 Lincoln Mark VIII's. I don't have to give my money to anyone, especially the run-of-the-mill arrogant Toyota salesmen. I am confident that after the fever breaks, everything will cool down.
If you are considering buying new, you almost certainly won't have to spend $15K to get ANY Yaris, but the one you could get at $14K will be much better equipped, more maneuverable, and more fuel efficient than the new Corolla CE you could get for the same money.
Now as for the base $11K Yaris hatch, I agree with you - zipping off down the road in a brand new Toyota for $11K (or perhaps $10-10.5K, depending on the popularity?) is an attractive notion. I just wish Toyota had found a way to stick a CD player in there for the base price. I would go without the rear defogger if they had done that, and go for the bare-bones model.
After having made the mistake of buying a first-year model a couple of times in the past, I am now firmly committed to waiting for a while to buy. Maybe even until year four, when they will do the mid-cycle refresh, and perhaps the defogger or the CD will finally be standard on all models.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You will likely get a better price if you finance it. Cash has no meaning now. It really is a disincentive.
Wave a 630 Beacon score and $1000 DP that will get you a better price. Weird but true. Details upon request.