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Any downside to buying a hybrid?
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Comments
Terry
Me personally, I'm not knocking hybrids .... because with the right folks in the right situation, with the right miles per year and keeping it for an *extended term* - they'll work ... for folks that drive a van or maybe a "non" business truck with a 4.11 rear end, drive 25k a year and get 10/12 mpg - it gets very attractive .... but for folks that usually trade every 28/36 months and drive 10k/15k a year and were getting pretty good gas mileage before, then the "comfort zone" usually gets them back into the trading mood .. thats why "many" Gen 2's get traded ....
Ya gotta remember, the car market is very much like the golf market ..... do you think the average golfer (the majority) plays any better with a new set of Callaways or the new Nike Sasquatch driver ...? .. heeeck no.! .. but Annika, Mickelson and Tiger use them .. so therefore they will spend that $300/$1,800 more because they must have them to play better - in this case, save money in gas .... in the meantime, a new set of grips and maybe a different shaft to the tune of $30/$50 bucks would have achieved the same thing ...........
Terry.
Oddly enough, here in Kansas City, where wintertime temps are not "temperate", mine never delivered less than 45. In the summer, which saw a whole lot of days with temps near 100, I still saw high 40's, low 50's. And the only way I can figure that the summertime mileage can suffer from AC use is if the battery level drops, since the AC unit is electric and not engine driven. And my battery was showing one bar below green all summer long.
you must have the patience of a Saint trying to convince them with any facts ..l..o..l....
How long have you driven a Prius rroyce? My guess is never. So how can you use "facts" to dispute what "real world" results are reported by owners of a Prius?
That's what a stinging national ad campaign against Toyota Motor Corp., launched today by a San Francisco-based environmental group, suggests. The ad is to run in Mother Jones online today and be printed soon in full-page ads in the New York Times and other publications.
Created by the Bluewater Network, a nonprofit organization that fights for clean air and water, the ads against Toyota are thought to be the first ever to attack a Japanese automaker on its environmental record in the United States.
Hybrid Hype
It is obvious you have never even sat in a Prius....Based on you comment about trunk space....It is a hatchBack and has a huge cargo area....far more then a full sized sedan would have it it's trunk...
There are legit questions you may ask about Hyrbids...but just flat out making up stuff when you have never even looked inside one is rather silly and obvious to all owned or have driven one.
While Toyota has a stable of fuel-efficient cars, including the hybrid Prius, it also makes the Land Cruiser SUV (17 m.p.g. on the highway); Sequoia SUV (18 m.p.g.); 4Runner SUV (21 m.p.g.), and Tundra Double Cab (18 m.p.g.). Those vehicles have helped lower Toyota's overall fuel economy.
While I hate SUV's and full size "personal" trucks, why does this group fault Toyota for providing what customers demand? What has made up the biggest selling share of most every automaker over the past 10-15 years? SUV's. They've even got a Porsche SUV for goodness sakes.
I drive a Prius, and the only way I get mileage as low as they report is to take the vehicle on a 2 or 3 mile trip...before it has a chance to warm up. But in 1985, the "SUV boom" hadn't begun...Suburban's were driven by mostly farmers/ranchers and a small group of Texas "soccer moms". When the passing of a couple of decades included SUV's as the biggest sellers, just how many automakers saw overall fleet-wide improvements in mileage?
I'm not a "greenie", but what do these people expect....for Toyota (or Ford for that matter) to cease making one of the few vehicles people wanted to buy...however misguided their logic is for buying one?
This can be nothing but bad for the environment if it drives even one person away from buying a Toyota hybrid vehicle. :mad:
The Bluewater thing makes me laugh. It just goes to show you that automakers just cannot make the extreme environmental groups happy. Ever. They won't be happy until all cars are eliminated and everyone has to walk or bike to work. So there's not a lot of percentage in trying to make them happy - cause they won't be.
"Toyota has a lot of explaining to do," Bluewater's ads say. "We thought Toyota cared about the environment. ... Is this the same company that brought us the hybrid Prius, claiming to be an environmental leader?"
The ads provide Toyota's telephone number and encourage consumers to call and ask Toyota to "build more fuel-efficient cars and end Toyota's opposition to critical U.S. environmental policies."
If you READ the entire article, a Toyota spokesperson explains Toyota's opposition completely reasonably:
"Hubbell said Toyota is lobbying for regulations that are "rational and national," to avoid a patchwork system of standards "that would be a nightmare" for manufacturers to comply with."
That's not unreasonable at all - they are not fighting it with the INTENT TO POLLUTE MORE, but only to make the regulations reasonable and rational and across the board" so that following the regulations is not a nightmare.
On your second question:
quote Gagrice-"If they are really interested in building fuel efficient cars, why haven't they kicked up production on the Prius?" - end quote
Have you not followed the news? Toyota is readying a plant in Tokyo City which will produce ONE PRIUS PER MINUTE. They are planning on selling 400,000 hybrids worldwide in 2006, ONE MILLION BY 2010. They are ramping up Prius production as fast as they can.
See this article for a breakdown of Toyota's hybrid current and future plans:
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/news/industry-report-toyota-plans-for-hybrid-alternative- -in-100-percent-of-models-in-future/1454/
I agree with that analysis. I want clean air and water as much as the rest of us. I just think we have gone to the extreme. The hybrids are a direct result of that extreme. Some get a taste and want more. A simple clean burning diesel such as the Smart Twofor would be great for running around town. It gets an HONEST 70 MPG even on short trips. If we are serious about saving oil & cutting GHG that is an alternate direction to go. The Canadians consider them clean cars.
Canadians think they are clean...they also think national health care is good then come down to the states by the millions when they need medical attention...
Gary, you wanna finance a SMART CAR dealership in CA to sell all those little two seater diesels? How many you think you could sell in a year?
OH NO I FORGOT !! Those are illegal to sell in CA.
Gary, Hybrids are a REAL and REASONABLE car to sell to reduce pollution and GHG emissions. They are not perfect, as is NO car. But they are the best we have right now.
It is a nightmare and has been for many years. A car built for AZ may not be legal in CA. Even today you cannot buy a new gas vehicle in AZ and easily license it in CA.
They are planning on selling 400,000 hybrids worldwide in 2006
They were planning to sell 120k Prii in the US this year. If the average time on the lot is 20 hours I would say every car they sent over is sold. They only sold 80k through September. Do you think they will ship enough to fulfill their promise by the end of December? If they are making a decent profit on the Prius it would be available on every dealers lot by now.
I don't understand that kind of blind faith shown in an automaker. I trust the automakers about as much as I trust the oil companies. Their only reason for existence is to make money. If they have to look green doing it, so be it. Toyota stole a page from the British Petroleum ad agency.
Blue whatever they call themselves, are just trying to hold Toyota's feet to the fire. No different than the goofy ad Toyota came out with. It is extreme environmentalists going after the extreme profiteers.
So them suing them to try and make it BETTER is a GOOD IDEA, is it not?
The article you read explains Toyota's production issues very well. It's not completely their fault that they cannot get the parts they need in a timely manner to produce all the Priuses that would sell.
**Terry: It is obvious you have never even sat in a Prius.... Based on you comment about trunk space.... It is a hatchback and has a huge cargo area.... far more then a full sized sedan would have it it's trunk...
There are legit questions you may ask about Hyrbids...but just flat out making up stuff when you have never even looked inside one is rather silly and obvious to all owned or have driven one** ...
================================
Aaah, I hate to break this to ya .........
I was driving, buying and selling them when you two guys still thought the word "Prius" was a Monastery in Tibet ...... it seems like the only exercise your getting here ~ is jumping to conclusions ...l.o.l.... read my profile ....
Terry
The biggest factor in my last car purchase wasn't about saving the Earth or appeasing the trees, it was saving fuel dollars.
Given that, the second runner up was the Neon but it lost out for its poor economy and reliability reviews.
We had waited an extra year to see if the '03 HCH's developed problems but they didn't.
I also spent that time doing research on hybrid vehicles and while the HCH is not an Insight, the drivetrain is very similar and I believed the HCH was capable of very nice numbers. The anti-hybrid hype by the media was just about getting in full swing. My automotive friends told me that the hybrid technology "Isn't quite there yet" based on what they've read.
I came from a 16MPG 4 cyl Dodge Spirit and figured 40-45MPG would be fantastic.
At that time I never dreamed I'd ever break a 900 mile tank, let alone do it consistently.
If I'd have listened to the anti-hybrid hype and my automotive friends I'd be driving that Neon pulling low 20's, not low-mid 60's.
Tree-hugger, no.
Fuel saver, yes!
Who makes the efficient vehicle makes no difference to our family and doesn't matter if their other vehicle lineup might be guzzling SUV's.
http://www.zapworld.com/cars/smartCar.asp
I know you attribute your high fuel mileage driving skills to the HCH. If people were motivated and trained in non-hybrid vehicles to use the skills available, they could see vast improvement in their FE. I know for myself I watch the MPG indicator on my Passat TDI. I think I have advanced a bit over not having that tool. Not near your level of FE. I average less than 10k miles per year total in two vehicles.
Meanwhile the saver of the planet, the greenest of the car companies (in more ways than one) is running TV advertisements with butterflies and green grass and trees and asking if we would all be happier and breathe easier if everyone drove a Toyota. What a bunch of hogwash. How about we all drive Land Cruisers?
GO HYBRID!!!
Ten weeks and counting....WOO HOOOOOO!!!
BTW, I just noticed the subtle anti-Americanism right here at Edmunds with the title line "What is this discussion about?" answer. Take a look for yourselves and see if u can figure out my point.
It's interesting though that you are a dealer...my sister was interested in buying an Escape hybrid. The salesrep told her 'they don't get all that great of mileage'...and started pushing her towards a "regular" Escape. Reason? He had a lot full of regular Escapes, but nary a hybrid on the lot.
Now...you being in the business and all...and I'm sure you are a great salesman....if you had a lot full of hybrid Escapes and no regular ones, would you push the virtues of hybrid ownership on a potential buyer, or would you encourage the 'normally aspirated' Escape, and take her order? Which one provides money to the dealership at the end of the day...the one in stock, or the one you have to wait a month or more for? When it comes to making money - a salesman is going to push hard for what he has, and spread FUD about what he doesn't carry.
TEN MORE WEEKS!!! Gotta love it!!!!
YAHOOO!!!!
A new shiny Prius shall be in my garage.
SIMPLE OMISSION
than
subtle anti-Americanism........
Stop digging yourself deeper, will ya.
Terry probably knows more about cars than everyone else combined in this forum.
This topic was created one year ago today as a matter of fact and it's quite possible that the Ford Escape had not yet been added to the list of vehciles that discussions could be categorized with at that time.
Speaking of gas mileage, I used to drive a 4-door Honda Civic and my average was 42mpg the first year. It was just a plain car with a strong engine and it was a blast to drive. My all-time best mpg was 53.4 mpg. There were cars around 20 years ago that could get mileage comparable to the Prius and the old Honda Civic VX could get 48city/55 highway. The only car that can top 55mpg highway is the Honda Insight. Hybrids do well, but they could do a lot better.
jefyou, "Ford Escape Hybrid" #1, 28 Aug 2002 10:11 pm
GO HYBRID!!
TEN WEEKS TO GO!!
YEAH BABY!!!!
The "Midsize" classification is based on interior room.
From this story:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/columnists/chambers_williams/12358958.htm
"And increasing the interior space to make the Prius midsize has worked as Toyota planned to bring it to the attention of mainstream car buyers, rather than continuing as just a darling of “green” conscious consumers."
And from this story:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/intellichoice/sedans/369_0508_review_2005_toyota_priu- - s/
"Toyota raised the bar, creating a midsize car with fuel efficiency greater than that of most compacts. In addition to enabling the Prius' extreme performance and cargo-toting ability, the distinctive styling made an instant political statement.
"
And From Motor Trend's Car Of The Year story:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/112_031120_coy/
"After weeks of exhaustive testing, Motor Trend editors found the Toyota Prius to be a user-friendly gas/electric hybrid capable of delivering an impressive 60 miles per gallon in city driving. It is the first of such vehicles to move into the automotive mainstream, with performance, style and quality. Spacious enough to be classified as a midsize sedan, the Prius' futuristic bodywork, innovative Hybrid Synergy Drive, pleasing interior and five-door hatchback design, clearly placed it above the competition."
Look it up.
You can talk about your profile, I am talking about the actual comment you made.
He doesn't know much about Prius...Did you see his trunk space comment...It is obvious he has never been up close to a Prius.
"Real World Trade in Value....That explains Terry's lack of knowledge of the 04/05 Prius....they haven't been around long enough to have been traded in, at least not in any numbers that a "TRADE IN GUY" would know much about them....
Consumer Reports...Apr. 05...Toyota's Second-generation Prius is unbeatable for its economy, acceleration and interior room..
P.S. it is a mid sized car.
http://tinyurl.com/8mkwf
Hopefully this is the last we have to post to prove that it is classified as a midsize.
Dying on the road, paint coming off, will not track straight, brakes shake like crazy, poor gas mileage, won't start, $15000 repair bills, 2 weeks at dealer, shuddering, surging, BURSTING INTO FLAMES!!!!
To name just a few.