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Toyota Prius Software Problems
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Hmmm, good thought. Maybe that is what happened...
The software runs in one or more of the Prius computers and has nothing to do with the flexible( USA only) gas bladder.
Concerning the software problems, since they seem to be happening and are a reality, it would behoove Toyota to go back to the lab and run a complete QA agaisnt the Prius software simultaing all possible fault conditions. Then once and for all iss a software update that would fix the problem. If it turns out the problem is also associated with ROM or flash memory ,, then maybe a firmware upgrade would also be needed. Thne the new baseline software would be carried forward to all new Prius and retrofitted into all existing Prius.
Cheers,
MiidCow
Concerning the software problems, since they seem to be happening and are a reality, it would behoove Toyota to go back to the lab and run a complete QA agaisnt the Prius software simultaing all possible fault conditions."
You are correct that the fuel bladder has nothing to do with computer or software problems - but if it caused the Prius to shut down on the freeway, that behavior could be mistaken for a software problem. That's why the last 10 or so posts are there.
RE:QA. Not possible, too many variables. If it were that simple, Toyota would have done it already. Like any complex software program, most of the code has probably been "individually" tested, what is known as unit test, where the individual piece of software code is checked for all variables, plus out-of-bounds values. However, when one combines all of the individual software routines, the "system level" tests become too complex to check every possible outcome, even by using computer simulated inputs. Software houses run system level tests to check out the functionality, but these cannot be all-inclusive. This is the same reason that Microsoft has problems with it's software code.
The best that can be done is to attempt to test as much as practical, and then try and insert software code to "trap" any errors if they occur. These codes are the ones you see reported in these forums. However, if the software fails outside of a coded "exception" point, if the program is not set up to dump data (and I really wouldn't expect a production car to be set up for this), then the problem is - how to find out what really went wrong.
Guaranteed, if there were any such update available, this forum would be abuzz with postings.
I'd like to hear from any of those who "HAD" a problem with their Prius and know the outcome of that problematic issue. Do tell for all to share. Thank You.
Railroadjames
After this happened a few times, then the MFD started going a bit whacky. It didn't like Bluetooth phone calls and at one point stopped giving me sound back - although the person on the line said she heard me clearly. Then the information displays "stuck" and blanked out. At one point I got a message back from the MFD that "external system is not connected". The display froze another time showing 100 mpg across the 6 time slots. Although the display froze, the measurements continued. If I turned the car on and off again, the display might work, and if it did, it showed the current mileage for the car/tank and the correct MPG. Sometimes the nav system was working through the problems, and sometimes not. Throughout all, the car ran fine.
I've brought my Prius into the shop and they are looking at it and not sure what the problme is although the advisor said "I think there is a bulletin on this."
Does anyone recognize this behavior by the system? Might you know about the "service bulletin" that he referred to? Where might it be found?
Thanks,
Eric
:confuse:
anyone have any ideas dealer says everything is fine?
Anyone know how many Priuses have had this problem?
Shouldn't they be recalling the cars with a display from this bad batch?
I didn't feel as if the brakes slowed me much. My son, who was in the car at the time, said he didn't feel the brakes at all.
I shared this experience with 2 people who have ordered Priuses - not to discourage them but to make them aware of their brakes' limitations - when one of the people came back and told me that certain Priuses have had problems with the brakes and the software needed reporogramming. I'm desperately looking for that information; if I can find it, the accident wouldn't be my 'fault' and my insurance rates wouldn't go up (plus, I wouldn't have to believe that I'm a lousy driver). ANYONE KNOW OF A SITE TO LOCATE INFORMATION ON DEFECTIVE/PROBLEMMATIC BRAKES IN THE PRIUS?
There are no reported problems with brakes on recent Prius vehicles. You can check on the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) website here:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsearch.cfm
I am one of those who spoke with NHTSA regarding my stalling event. I wonder if anyone else has had the following experience (which has happened to me several times before the stalling event, and several times after.
I push the start button, and, instead of the car starting, it goes to what I call orange mode (orange because the L E D in the start button becomes orange....I think this is commonly called accessory mode). When I try to start the car by pressing the brake and hitting the start button again, the car just freezes in the "orange mode". Anywhere from 45 seconds to 5 minutes later, the car is willing to unfreeze and shut down. I then can start it normally.
The reason I am particularly interested in this phenomena is because when my car stopped while driving on March 13th. I could not get the car out of "orange mode" for somewhere between 5 to 10 minutes. When the shut down occurred, all of my warning lights were on. There have been no warning lights on when this has occurred at my attempted start-up of the automobile
If you are having this "orange mode" problem now, take it to a dealer and make them fix it. It is indicative of some other problem that may bite you in the back sometime (or bite you lower down, if you know what I mean).
thanks for your response. My Prius is a 2004 with the group 9 package..i.e. with all the bells and whistles that Toyota offers on ths vehicle. My car was ordered in October of 2003 and delivered in late February of 2004. I mention this because some of the Prius problems probably relate to particular serial numbers and their dates of manufacture.
Do you know the numbers of the TSB's for the 2004's which relate to the "shut-down while driving" issue. I fear that not knowing the TSB numbers, I am at the mercy of the dealer. I have an excellent dealer, but they can only be as good as their knowledge base. Consequently, I want to be as pro-active as I can so as to not find myself stopped in the middle of a busy interstate on a cold Sunday night. As you are no doubt aware all auto problems are pre-programmed to occur in bad weather and on Sundays or holidays.
I'm sorry, I do not have a list. I believe there was one on the display face and the engine control unit (this is the one that was evidently causing the shutdowns at highway speed).
You have an early unit, and it sounds like just about any 2004 TSBs would apply. But your dealer may have already put them in - I notice you had your screen display replaced.
Anybody else out there have the TSB numbers?
Try this link:
blane, "Toyota Prius Software Problems" #126, 18 May 2005 7:07 am
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" TOKYO -(Dow Jones)- Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.TO) will recall 160,000 units of its hybrid Prius car worldwide due to possible problems with the engine, Kyodo News reported Friday.
These problems may cause the engine to stop while driving, and Toyota will repair all the cars recalled free of charge, Kyodo reported. "
http://tinyurl.com/bn6qs
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/automotive/5097736/detail.html
http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/10/14/prius_recall.reut/index.html
Nobody makes perfect machines.
Krzys
Congratulations to NHTSA also for opening up the investigation and forcing Toyota to address the problem. Without their involvement this thing would have dragged out even longer than it already did.
What was in question was the severity of the problem. Some people thought it affected many many drivers and others defended Toyota and said it was a problem affecting only a small number of cars.
That part is still true - the stalling problem HAS only occurred to a small number of cars. Toyota is taking "proactive measure" of recalling to go ahead and get everybody updated to prevent future occurences of the problem.
How about the 95% that do not frequent any forums? Toyota had an obligation to inform ALL Prius owners when they found the problem, back in March 2005. Toyota kept it under wraps. Several people that reported the problem had been in for service after the fix was available and the dealer did not update the software. You had to specifically ask for it. If it was not for the NHTSA investigating, Toyota would not have done anything to inform all the Prius owners.
Many Prius owners that came to the forum looking for answers, were run off by rude comments, by those that think that the Toyota Prius is the answer to all our problems.
My HCH has the ignition slot behind the steering wheel, and it makes it hard to see, and the plastic around the key hole is all scratched up. Should Honda have let me know?
Sometimes my AutoStop does not engage when I think it should. Should Honda have let me know?
My fuel consumption display is usually off by about 1 MPG from my manual calculations. Should Honda have let me know?
My gas tank is rated at 13.2 but owners have put in as much as 15.2. Should Honda have let me know?
Toyota has not kept anything "under wraps." They were doing what is known as an INVESTIGATION to see what the cause of the problem was. Does every car company need to send a letter to say, "hey, a few owners have had a problem, so we are investigating it." ??? No, of course not, that would be silly.
The evidence is there and very clear. Some will refuse to see it. Maybe your sister has a good Toyota dealer. That would be a big plus for her. Exposing the shortcomings of other automakers in no way excuses Toyota from covering up this issue. It was a lot more serious than a window that will not work properly. Toyota and the Prius owners are very fortunate that the software problem did not cause a serious accident.
At least Toyota was coming up with a fix!
Actually is was denied, by one of the staunch defenders of the Prius movement. Just to refresh your memory look at messages #119, #201, #207, #210
YMMV,
MidCow
"There were actually only 11 reports. (Some people posted their complaint twice.) And many of them were likely caused by not having SSC-40A (Electronic-Control-Unit reprogramming) and LSC-40E (Engine Compartment Seal) done for their Prius. They are required updates to prevent this type of problem.
JOHN"
Post #201 - no denial here either:
"Why be concerned? You are more likely to be in an accident caused by someone else than for this to happen. Just stay alert. This is still rare and just sounds like the updates weren't applied to all the cars that needed them. I have driven 95,000 miles with my two Prius. No engine trouble whatsoever. None of my Prius owning friends have ever had any either. The real problem is the lack of detail in these reports, causing people to speculate & worry. If they would report what the month/year their car was built (found on the driver's door-jam) and which updates they've had done (documented using stickers placed inside the hood or door-jam by the mechanic), they'd we'd have something actually helpful to work with.
JOHN"
Post #207 - no denial here:
"Also note that the TSB doesn't only apply to Prius, though you'd never know it based on the way info is sometimes posted. Highlander & Land Cruiser are also listed, since they use the identical hardware.
JOHN"
Post # 210 - no denial here:
"Ask your dealer and/or call Toyota directly to find out if updates are needed. What else is there outside of normal care for a vehicle? And all the routine stuff is already documented and available online from several sources.
JOHN"
I don't see any denial there. Just questioning the severity of the problem and noting the small number of occurrences does not equal denial that a problem exists.