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Toyota Prius Software Problems
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Yes I do. I got a letter on one of my GM trucks about a bolt that may work loose on the passengers seat. Mine never did but I took it in and they put a different bolt in the seat. This software issue was known for a long time. Toyota came up with at least two software updates. Do you think all those people would have reported the problem to the NHTSA if the dealers were taking care of the problem? I don't think so. Those reports were by frustrated owners that were towed in and the dealer reset the computer and told them it may happen again.
As far as all the little problems you are having with your HCH, I would jump on Honda and get them resolved. The issues you mentioned don't seem important to me. Stalling at 65 MPH on the Interstate is a tad bit more dangerous than your fuel calculator being off by 1 MPG.
Toyota chose to dodge and weave the problem. Toyota tried to minimize the issue, saying stalling at highway speeds wasn't an issue bacuse you could limp off the road. Toyota said it wasn't a problem because there weren't any accidents reported (yet).
If NHTSA did not step up to the plate and hold them accountable, and if it weren't for the hundreds of consumers who took the time to file reports with NHTSA, Toyota would still be dragging this thing out like they have for the past two model years.
So there is no good reason ( other than critical, known safety issues ) to RUSH into a recall - do the investigation and see if it's absolutely required before you do it. No one died, no one was endangered, no cars were damaged, no one's insurance went up.
Vehicle recalls should be a last resort, not a first step. Dont forget - car makers are in business to make money, not to spend money fixing every little glitch that might only affect 1 in 10,000 owners.
"Toyota plans to notify buyers of its Prius hybrid that the car could potentially stall out while driving due to a software bug in the Electronic Control Module (ECM). The problem affects approximately 75,000 cars, although only 33 official complaints have been lodged thus far.
Due to the bug, the Prius' gasoline engine could stall out while driving between 35 and 65 miles per hour. However, the car's electric engine would take over, enabling a driver to safely reach the side of the road. Upon stopping, the gasoline engine would properly restart, Toyota says."
That's a whopping
0.00044 percent
of the recalled cars which have had a problem. Woo, that's a HUGE problem ! :P
It's 0.044 percent. You forgot to move your decimal point two places to the right.
Still a small number though --
Meade
By the way did you know the HSD CVT planetary transmission has GEARS ?
Anyway, I hope Toyota finally owns up to the problem/s and fixes everyone's car without any additional incidents.
YMMV,
MidCow
No big deal, but actually, unless my calculator is wrong, 33 divided by 75000 (seventy five thousand) comes to
0.00044
I'm no math whiz, but I think that comes to 4.4 thousandths of 1 percent.
0.00044 percent
of the recalled cars which have had a problem. Woo, that's a HUGE problem !"
How many more would have to fail to be a big problem? Are we waiting for people to start dying before we take this stalling issue seriously? You folks are funny. This is a HUGE issue. You equate it to a scratch on the steering column or a mileage figure being off. This is a matter of life and death. Toyota is hanging thier whole auto company on fuel mileage right now--watch the ads on TV. If the Prius turns into a dangerous vehicle--and I hope it does not--it will become the next Pinto instead of the savior of the world's fuel supply.
Some people even distort the numbers to try to minimize the problem.
According to NHTSA, there were 6,697 warranty claims for stalling.
That works out to 9% of all Prius's, yes that's almost 1 in 10, not .00044 or whatever some would like us to believe.
The 9% number is much more widespread than people thought, and must really come as a shock to those who thought only 36 people had the problem, and affected only .00044% of the owners.
We never would have know how truly widespread this problem is except for the NHTSA investigation.
Fortunately, NHTSA said they will continue to monitor the problem and see if the repair will actually fix the defect
If you check ODI there is well over 100 stalling reports on the 2004-2005 Prius. Toyota has admitted that the potential for failure exists in all 160,000 Prius they have sold world wide. Hopefully people will get the upgrades & not just throw the notice in the trash.
Those are people who got the software update notice and got the update done at Toyota's cost - that is NOT people who had the stalling problem !!
You think it would have taken this long if 6697 people had stalled on the road? Get REAL !!
Let's not pass around falsehoods people !!! :mad:
The point of this forum and this recall is that each and every Prius out there (except for those that have already been fixed) has the software problem residing in the computer code, just waiting for that "perfect storm" of conditions that cause it to fail.
It is true that the exact conditions apparently have not occurred often.
I applaud Toyota for admitting the error and recalling the cars so that everyone driving the Prius can feel confident that they will not experience this problem.
We should also note that part of the premise of estabilishing this forum is that the Prius is somewhat unique in it's software, and I think this recall validates this as fact. I know of no other car in which all of the warning lights illuminating would cause the entire propulsion system to fail.
Of course, if any other car lost it's ICE, it would stop moving pretty soon anyway. So there is some benefit to having dual propulsion.
This is not to detract in any way from the quality and concept of hybrids or the Prius. It is a new but good technology, and the "kinks" will be worked out in time.
if Toyota's feet weren't held to the fire through the opening of the Investigation, Toyota would have dragged this out for another model year.
I think you should do a little more research before you speak. The NHTSA report I am looking at indicates that there was 6,697 CLAIMS that could be related to the stalling problem. Hopefully more than that would have gone in to have the update done, Also Toyota in their letter to the NHTSA identified 416 cases of stalling that were reported to them. We may never know the full extent. If this fix resolves the stalling all will be good. Investigation PE05-029 also notes that ODI received 166 complaints.
The 416 cases are not 416 people left for dead on the highway. These are people who had stalled Priuses. Are you prepared to say that all 416 of them were because of the one identifed software glitch? I think the odds of that are SLIM to NONE.
The 6697 CLAIMS were people who took Toyota up on the "software updates" based on a letter the owners got, not 6697 people who had stalls !! MY Gosh people, listen to yourselves !!
The results of the government's investigation into the stalling defect clearly say the defect is much more widespread than that.
The results of the government's investigation into the stalling defect clearly say the defect is much more widespread than that."
My own count was around 36 separate reports, but that was several weeks ago.
However the defect is in all Prius - it simply is very hard to get to the exact circumstances that trigger the software error. I'm pretty sure that 150,000 units is just about all of the second generation (2004+) model Prius.
Thankfully due to the governments investigation into the defect, Toyota was forced to release the hundreds of formal complaints written directly to Toyota about the stalling problem. Once that info got out, Toyota could not hide behind the "its only 36 people" fallacy.
http://199.79.180.163/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2005/PE/INCLA-PE05029-22129.PDF-
This next document from Toyota refers to the 416 cases they have documented. See page 3 response 2. There are several other documents on file with the NHTSA pertaining to the stalling of the Prius. It is not limited to 33 isolated cases I can assure you of that.
http://199.79.180.163/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2005/PE/INRL-PE05029-20938P.pdf-
"warranty claims related to vehicle conditions that could cause gas engine stalling"
That's a lot of possible causes, not all related to the one software update that is causing the recall.
I'd love to know the source of that number, which we will never know. Was that as reported to NHTSA by owners? As reported by Toyota?
Seems like a very undefinable and nebulous number.
But what it does NOT represent is 6697 stalled Priuses, under any translation.
Toyota better hope that it is related to that one software update, or they are in real deep trouble. Why is it so hard to accept that this was not an isolated problem? Especially now that Toyota has accepted it. You also act like I and others made up the numbers in the NHTSA report. Maybe you should tell us what it means. Maybe you can find some evidence that substantiates your claims. When over a hundred people go so far as to complain to the Federal government about a problem with their cars, that indicates a much bigger problem than just those people. Most people will not do anything just drive till it happens again. Hoping that Toyota will figure it out. How many different problems has Toyota found so far? Read the Toyota response.
In its August 26, 2005 response to ODI's information request, Toyota identified various conditions that could cause the subject vehicles to experience a gas engine stall. If this happens, the driver is alerted by an audible sound and various warning lights. The vehicle will continue to operate in the electric mode and the electrically-powered brake and steering operation will continue to function normally.
Railroadjames(lets all remember that we share common bonds here)(we enjoy our cars)
If you do not own a Prius, do not wish to offer productive support or are simply here to bash and gripe, please note that there are other discussions in which to voice an opinion.
Please, let's not stifle a discussion that can be helpful to many.
If you want to take this matter up with me, you will find my email in my profile.
Non-Prius owners in here being counterproductive will have posts removed with no TOU.
If you want to discuss Toyota's handling of issues with vehicles, please start a new discussion by clicking Add a Discussion in the Hybrid Vehicles board.
Many thanks!
I reached out to Toyota about this issue where my official assigned Prius Consultant was really no help or comfort to me and I turned to NHTSA where we filed a formal complaint. So, we are one of the few (~3 dozen) public complaints now on public file at NHTSA. As I have some experience with complex machine control software I was not happy with the Toyota response(s) and they lost my confidence.
Concerned about the reliability of my car I took my Prius into the same dealer with my "stall" concern and they volunteered to reprogram the ECU with "updated" software at that minute...done late Sept!
I told other Prius Owners that I know that they needed to get the newest software loaded as Toyota was not being fast enough resolving the breakdown issue... we are very glad to see a special service bulletin "recall"!!
http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/14/Autos/prius_recall.reut/index.htm?section=money_latest
Good luck in getting the problems fixed!
Cheers,
MidCow
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