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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/AUTO01/611090364/- - - - 1148/AUTO01
I personally know 4 people who owned BMW 3, 5 and 7 series - not one of them kept it after the warranty expired. The guy with the 7 series told me that it was the biggest piece of junk he ever owned and the guy with the 3 series had his in service quite often as well as my boss with the 5 series.
My HR manager had a 330 and traded it in for IS350 – why, because she had it in the shop every other month.
So don't tell me that the BMW is reliable - as it consistently rated well below LEXUS, ACURA and INFINITI.
Even the Accords and the Camry’s are more reliable then the 3 series or the 5 series BMW.
If you spend almost 40K on a small 4 door RWD sports sedan, it better run like clockwork all the time.
The only appeal I see in the BMW or the MB is for those who have an ego issue and need to feed it. Buying a car just for a name is stupid. As for me, I’d stick with cheaper, more reliable and just as good cars from Honda, Toyota and Nissan.
Actually as you notice, this has nothing to do with sales. In general, all vehicles are reliable, the difference between the most reliable brand (Porsche, I think) and the average reliable brand is one trip to the dealer per year.
"I personally know 4 people who owned BMW 3, 5 and 7 series - not one of them kept it after the warranty expired."
I personally know two people with Lexus' that didn't keep it after the warranty expired also. What could that mean?
"My HR manager had a 330 and traded it in for IS350"
"So don't tell me that the BMW is reliable"
Actually I will, having personal experience and knowing a number of people who drive BMWs, I won't convince the "new Ford is reliable" crowd that any car is or is not reliable. If you read the Edmunds boards, you'll also see that Lexus owners defect to BMW for various reasons. I'd buy an Accord over a Fusion in a second and a 3 series over both of them in the blink of an eye.
"The only appeal I see in the BMW or the MB is for those who have an ego issue and need to feed it. Buying a car just for a name is stupid. As for me, I’d stick with cheaper, more reliable and just as good cars from Honda, Toyota and Nissan."
Thank goodness narrowminded people do not run BMW. Having a moving target with regard to class leading dynamics and driving makes for some really good products across the board. At 250,000 drive like they did at 10 miles. Not so with Honda or Toyota. You don't know how much fun driving can be in your Accord.
No problems. Just routine maintenance since 1993 for 3 BMW vehicles.
When my 545i lease expires in August 2008, I will be looking at the Accord EX V6 or the new MDX. I have gotten tired of looking at the BMW interior after all these years.
The 545i is a waste for driving in the USA. The Accord EX V6 should be just right.
The Fusion/Milan are alternatives to the Camry/Accord. Now Ford needs to improve on this platform and not let it just die on the vine. Many improvements coming for 07 model year. I just hope Ford doesn't decide to build a gazzillion of them. Keeps the numbers down for consistant quality/fit/finish of the vehicles.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/AUTO01/611090364/- -
Does this mean that in Europe BMW/Mercedes are also seen to be just like, say, VW?
That is your opinion, and your opinion only. It isn't my opinion. My opinion is you get what you pay for in terms of a tightly integrated vehicle.
I wish I had the foresight to develop a business model as BMW. Take a product, make it tops in it's class, refine it and then advertise it likes it's the best thing on earth and charge premium prices. What a novel idea?
That's directly opposite to Hyundais' approach. Take a vehicle, make it almost as good as the class leader, cut a few corners etc. and charge a price way below the class leader. Another novel idea.
Did you mean to reply to my post? If you did, there isn't such a thing as a clutch in the W-bodies as they are all automatic transmission.
I know, which is one reason they aren't on my shopping list,or on my consideration list.
Yep. Just take a look at their latest issue. They ranked the all-new Sentra (a mid-sized car per the EPA btw) last in a comparo in their latest issue. Nissan has tons of advertising in C/D, including ads on the new Sentra.
****
Which was my point. The thing has to be kept at about 3000 rpm all the time to defeat the transmission/stupid computers/etc. Okay, it''s downright apalling to have a full second where nothing at all happens. The Northstars don't seem to suffer from this, though.
That full second of lag where nothing at all happens at 35-40mph or so is also potentially dangerous and why while the engine is fantastic, GM really needs to rework the transmission or offer a manual. The CTS with stickshift is a 200% different car than the slushomatic model.
Volvo s60, s40(needs the I6), xc70, xc50, v70
All Jaguars (-xk)
mazda3, mazda6, rx-8(cabrio?), B-series, tribute
ford RANGER, Escape, 500, freestyle
How long has that ranger been around? 10 1/2 years?
-Cj :shades:
The Ranger, B-Series, Mazda3, RX-8, Escape/Tribute, Freestyle etc. aren't mid-sized sedans the last time I checked.
I wish Mazda would bring back the rotary in a sedan, a 21st century RX-2, RX-3, or RX-4 if you will. But, I understand the marketing positioning on the RX-8 given its price, and the rotary's fuel consumption differential.
The rotary is a very sweet engine.
lx-se/auto msrp 22,970 sale price 20,280.
sonata maybe?
You're obviously not the customer BMW is looking for. They don't care about you. You can't appreciate the finer things in life. Sure a BMW 335 may not be worth $8K more than say a G35, but it still is an awesome car that many, many people want and desire. These people have the money - you don't. No need to spread your sour grapes all over this board.
There are other discussions which cover these interests. If any of you need any help finding what you need, just give me a holler.
Your cooperation is appreciated.
Why the 'shame on you'? The article says that this engine is destined for the 2 Lincolns, the 500, the Edge, and the Freestyle!
Why not the Fusion???
Does this mean that folks that do want the extra power of a V6 in a midsize sedan are still stuck with the old 3.0? The 3.5 will likely help the 500 a bunch and apparently could take the Fusion into a dynamic territory now occupied by Accord/Camry/Altima and even Sonata V6s. Somebody needs to call Ford and find out if they really WANT to sell Fusions.
the electronic nannies prevent use of the excess power anyway.
Same thing happens to most carmakers at the end of a model cycle... the prices drop due to people waiting out the new model's release. Tell the truth, assuming you wanted car X would you pay the same price for the car 5 years after its release as you would the month it debuted? Probably not.
I'd want to wait until the new, improved (usually anyway!) model came out and get that one, if the prices were the same.
The same thing happened with the 2006 Camry right before the 2007 debuted; prices dropped.
The 4-cylinder Fusion is about the same power as I-4 Accord, Sonata, Camry, etc...so it's all "caught up" in the power race on that front. But the Fusion has the least horsepower in its class (I think, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) in the top-end V6 models. It offers a great value, great handling, etc... but it is generally 15-50 horsepower behind its compeitors.
I'm not ahuge advocate of the new Duratec, because frankly, the old one wasn't so hot IMO. I'll have to check out the new ones if they put the 3.5 in the Fusion.
Latest talk is that it will have the 3.2L from the TL, but that's just speculation.
horsepower is not the answer to everything. back in '89 you could get a 3.0 in a taurus sedan that could outrun just about everything. it did cost more than a lot of people were willing to pay, though.
The SOHCs have served them well, but times are a changing.
My 2.2L in my 1996 I-4 Accord is a SOHC. Haha
The Taurus was on top of the car market then, wasn't it? It was doing quite well when it was one of the powerful players...
I'm not saying that is why they sold, it is just interesting to note the correlation. Just a thought...
Horsepower isn't everything, but it is a lot to some people (not me, I got the I-4 model!). And this day in age when you can get a Toyota that delivers better fuel economy AND 47 more horsepower, Ford looks a little behind.
Put out the 08 Accord, with the same 270hp as the Altima/Camry in that 3.5, and the smoothness that is typical of all Honda engines, the Accord will remain at the top of the heap. Besides, the current 3.2 is anything but a slouch, a little low on torque but that should be fixed with the displacement increase.
Bingo. They can't let the Fusion go the way of the Focus.
There are many folks who get these cars becuase of status and image no doubt. That doesn't mean they're not wonderfully engineered vehicles. Perhaps not worth the extra money to many people but these are superior vehicles. You know I'm a big advocate for Hondas but my Audi is worth the extra money for what I want in a car. Please bear with me Pat.
Why not the Fusion???
It is destined for the Fusion (and Mustang), but not right away. The 500, Montego and Freestyle get it in April of next year along with a new front, rear and interior upgrade.
They just don't have the production capacity yet to offer it in all vehicles. They might also wait until the 3.7L is available for Lincoln to keep the differentiation between the Fusion and the MKZ.
Image and status are moving targets. A fully loaded Toyota Camry with all of the trimmings as a new car to someone that has previously driven used Elantras is a status symbol. There is no $ amount over which a car can be considered to have an image or status. Bottom line, image and status to some is plebianism to others.
It's all based on where you started from.