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I'd be interested in what the weight difference is. I've read that it is significant with the Michelin runflats used on the Honda minivans but wonder if it is as significant on the Bridgestone and Conti designs that went the stiffer sidewall route. It did seem that my 16" winter LM-22 T/R combos were heavier than the summer RE050A 17" OEM combos, but, then, I didn't weigh either.
We just returned from 2 weeks in Quimper, Brittany where I was driving a rented Renault Scenic MPV. The ride/handling setup of French cars is very impressive, handling D roads with wavy loose-chippings-on-tar surfaces and pronounced and variable camber (very similar to British B roads) in a responsive manner. I continue to be impressed with turbo-diesel power -- bags of low end torque, which I think European drivers understand to be important for making good, effortless time over long distances with a manual trans. I'd be interested to see how the E90 series would handle these roads, whether the wavy surface would bounce the car around -- saw a lot, primarily 320Ds with the same wheels as base US cars but with 16" summer tires, all with aluminum or metal-look trim. I also wonder whether the sport suspension on the US market car is more similar the SE sport or M-sport setup, but my guess is that it is probably engineered specifically for North America.
French roads are great -- I drove 380 miles overnight from Quimper to CDG -- the first half on the divided "motorway standard" RNs was good (110 kph limit with a few 90 kph sections), but the second half on the "section a peage" (A81/A11/A10) starting between Rennes and Le Mans was fast and uneventful -- great road, carefully maintained, 130 kph limit, infrequent junctions, intelligent, lane-disciplined and largely law abiding drivers. Tolls very steep (I think 24.50 euro for the c. 170 mile section).
A10 Autoroute
Brittany is great -- unspoiled, beautiful Celtic coastline, lush but with iffy weather.
Highland Pete -- now that we're into warmer weather here, I agree with what you say about temperature affecting ride quite markedly. When it drops to 45 or so here, though, I'm onto the higher profile winter tires.
Then I drove a 328i with the Sports Package at a different dealership. This time we drove on a freeway in California with those grooves... (tram lines)? I felt like the car was darting all over the place. I had to keep both hands on the wheel to keep the car in the lane. Even though I love the way these cars look and I thought the 335i was extremely smooth, this test drive made me look at something smoother, like an X5.
But now I'm wondering... could it be that the 335i would behave differently and not tramline so much? Or could it be that the tires on the 328i were inflated too much? Or is this just normal with the RFTs?
worser: telling customers "you are the first one with this problem" (badly cupped ContiPro tires with 15K miles)
worst: ignoring the problem and not doing a thing about it, essentially having customers finance the RFT experimentation.
Shame on you BMW! :mad:
No more "ultimate driving machine" for this guy, next time it's just a car, a real car and it looks like we do that soon.
Here you can read our nightmare experience with these tires!">link title
What a shame that BMW picked up a pretty arrogant stand in regard to the tires as well as other problematic issues; and me living in Miami does not help neither, as the Miami BMW dealers are probably if not the most then among the most arrogant ones.
If you look at the long term tests and search this forum, you will find this information.
cbanct
I've got RFTs on my Cooper S too; they're a bit better but still not even close to as good as real tires.
At about the 6,400 mi. mark, the wear and noise became noticeable and prompted me to bring it into the dealer. They agreed that a problem was developing and to bring it back around the 10,000 mile mark. After following the sagas of other owners, I thought a replacement was a no brainer, since the wear and noise were very excessive by then.
It took a lot of convincing that the 18's were the same as the 16's and 17's...duh, and that they should be judged the same as per replacement.
The good news - After a lot of phone calls and e-mails between the dealer and BMWUSA, I was authorized free replacement of all 4...but with the same tire. The dealer handled it as a "Good Will" replacement. The bad news - As it turns out, only Bridgestone makes the 18's.
Since I plan to keep my car for a long time, the dealer's comment was, "Bring 'em back again at 10,000 and get another set of tires free." He likened it to free tires for life!
Kirk
The RFTs seem to have a lot of people dissatisfied, but some reporting back to us have been satisfied or had their problems addressed by the dealer. The worst response is, I guess..."oh....WHAT problem? Never heard of that before".
Yeah, right....
I wish everyone would receive this experience for this issue but it looks like not all is created equal in BMW Service World.
Regards,
OW
When someone celebrates the lawyers alighting on this issue, I'll respond as I see fit. Where I was raised that's known as freedom of expression, but I sometimes sense a concern, should I say a strong drive, for a "uniformity of perspective" on these pages. There are intelligent people on both sides of this issue. I hold a minority view, on these pages, if not among owners at large, at least as the discussion pertains to the summer tires. I will acknowledge that there are compromises associated with the RFT approach.
Mrshiftright
Visiting Host
Thanks for your time guys and please keep any responses to this idiotic question simple I fly helicopters, not race cars.
Yes a nice rubber car for a first-time driver would be perfect...a rubber 1985 Volvo for starters?
I'm wondering if it's more the sport seats rather than the suspension that make some people whine?
ManualGuy
re the E90 with ZSP, lower profile tires make a significant difference - the car is much less prone to harsh bangs caused by collapsing expansion joints with its winter LM22 tires (16" RFT) fitted. It's also more directionally stable (less of the road surface or camber following, tramlining effect people refer to). However it is also much less responsive than when wearing the 17" RE050A RFTs. Low tire profile, impact harshness and damaged wheel rims go together unfortunately. I do wonder whether the stiffer RFT sidewalls do actually help prevent rim damage, however.
I think the sport seats are good, but would like a little more width for my lower back, and removal of the upholstery seam which creates an uncomfortable ridge under my rear end. The cushion itself is quite soft, but the bolsters are not. I recently drove a 328i without the sport seats, but liked the standard seats less. I think you have to live with the sports seats for a while to appreciate them. They are a compromise designed to hold you in place under hard cornering -- not always the best compromise for a cross country trip. I do get surprisingly little of the rotor cuff ache that I get in a lot of cars with softer seats. You're not going to get the level of long distance comfort you'd get in a Volvo S80 though.
Thanks for the reassurance. Where/who is your dealer? Does anyone have any positive/negative experience with Foreign Motors West in MA? I've just ordered a 335xi with ZSP but the 17" all season tires. I'm not at all happy about what I've been reading about the Bridgestone EL42s. My dealer has already told me that it is up to the factory and what they have on hand as to what they mount. $45K for a car and lousy tires is not something I'm anticipating favorably. My sales guy is great, but it may not be up to him to keep me happy.
xeye
Request the Conti's anyway even if the dealer must install. Make that the deal breaker.
I'll bet Tahtiana would make this happen! A one sentence e-mail made the no-cost switch to Conti's after 12K on the P.O.S. EL-42's happen for me. Impeccable.
Regards,
OW
I hate these %$(%@ tires....
How do we get a class action lawsuit going against BMW for this?
Is this really true? I mean are they going to really do it or is it just a rumor? I like the 1 series and would rather have a donut as a spare but you need a jack and a lug wrench! Is there room for that or will it just flop around in the trunk?
I'm no fan of RFT. I understand why they use them and for me I'd buy continental Contact3's as they seem very good but it would be great news in the 1 series had RFT's as an option and gave us a donut spare.
This doesn't sound good and implies that I'm at the mercy of the dealer. Any REALISTIC suggestions?
Do not accept what you do not want.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
What's the buyer's responsibility once the P&S is signed?
Well I have been in some pretty remote places and let me tell you 50 miles isn't going to get you the a gas station never mind a BMW dealership and you can probably find a starter motor for a 69 Dodge Dart, but getting a RFT for a brand new Model BMW and then being able to find someone with the equipment AND the experience to put it on the special rims they use? :sick:
I see it as a deal breaker for me as I just can't be stuck way out somewhere and no chance at getting a spare. But you can always find something to throw on the car until you finish your trip and get home and call Tire Rack or the dealer.
I hope it will be available. I wonder what the deal would be if i could take delivery with not wheels or tires and get a discount on the RFT that come with the car?
There must be a solution, maybe they will announce more info in the coming weeks. I mean how secret is something like regular tires being an option?
I will try to find the .pdf for you...it's around here somewhere.
Regards,
OW