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Toyota on the mend?

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    But really,could a car be more bland? If Lexus really wants to compete with the big boys in terms of anything related to an active image, that car will do nothing but hinder.

    I'm not holding my breath on those updates. I don't know if I've ever even seen a current IS with a manual.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    I'm not the one saying it sells on styling merits, so yes I agree, calling it even good design is a mighty rich claim.

    Sonata will sell because it offers value. Undercuts the bland competition, has laudable engine technology. I see no praise of that design from any credible industry source. It's a poor man's CLS. If I want bad visibility and low rear headroom, I'll save my money and buy the real deal.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    Just because it sells doesn't mean it's good. It's another product that gives the brand a certain image.

    #1 spot in the US, don't forget that.

    I don't see MB making a vehicle exclusively for spoiled women. I'd take a soft new ML on an unpaved road before I'd even think about it in an RX.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    I'd like to be able to go highway speeds...but for the farm...there's nothing cooler than a Unimog :shades:
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The GS needs an identity, no argument there. It seemed like the 2nd gen actually was closer than the first or the current car.

    You can get an IS250 with a manual, but there's not enough engine there.

    Lexus should make the non-DI 2GR engine the base engine, and then the current 2GR-FSE the upgrade engine, and ditch the tiny 2.5l V6 altogether.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If I want bad visibility and low rear headroom

    Headroom is supposed to be surprisingly good.

    The Mazda6' is not, though. I had to duck to avoid bumping my head.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't see MB making a vehicle exclusively for spoiled women

    Stereotype much? Jeez.

    You must not be married.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    The officially imported G-wagen is a poser car, made for those with too much money and a lack of common sense. Europe has long received much cooler and more sensible variants.

    I dodge the endless poorly aligned manhole covers and ruts around here too, my car is too stiff for that...keeps me alert, too. The "big mouth bass" Audi look is here to stay,,,so you might not have to worry about that purchase for a long time.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    Where there's smoke there's fire...I'm sure I'm wrong as an absolute, but as a majority, not from what I can see.

    And yeah, I have problems, but that aint one of em.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    GS barely exists - previous version seemed a lot more popular, and I want to say at one time the 6 could be had with a manual. Never cared for its looks, but it seemed a little more on target.

    You can get a Camry manual too, but good luck finding one.

    Engine technology is worth something in my book...maybe the better engine should be standard? Hyundai is really working their butts off in that arena...Toyota should too.

    Sonata must have low rear seats or an illusion that makes it look lower...which would kill visibility. Still, I don't care for it. I don't see a lot of the new 6 on the road around here...and I do see rentals too.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I want to say at one time the 6 could be had with a manual

    I think some GSs were, also. The first IS300 for sure, plenty of those were manuals.

    I don't get why they have the 2.5l V6 now. Output is low and mileage isn't great, either. Customers think it's a 4 banger.

    Why not just stuff the 269hp engine from the RAV4 instead? It runs on regular fuel to boot.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    It might have been the same setup as the original SC - manual available for the 6. But that's long gone now as Toyota went bland.

    I've read that for dopey little crossovers, the Sport model of the RAV4 is a very good one.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    0-60 in 6.2 seconds per Car & Driver.

    That's ridiculously quick for something with such a tall center of gravity. It's actually Toyota's quickest accelerating vehicle, ironically. It's just lighter than anything else with that V6.

    The only quicker crossover I can think of was the Forester XT, and even then only when it offered the manual transmission (discontinued in 2009).

    Lexus should use that engine for the IS - more power than the C350 and burning regular fuel. Keep the DI model and its 300+hp for higher-end models.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    SLK has always been kind of a cruiser more than a real sports car either, other than the rare tuned variants...doesn't surprise me. It was never meant to be a Miata.

    SLK was supposed to mean Sport, Light, Kompact, right? Looks like 0-out-of-3 nowadays.

    I don't get it - the SL is the comfy GT, why can't the SLK actually be light and small? With an SLS AMG Roadster coming, Benz will have three big/comfy 2-seaters.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    edited December 2010
    Light is relative. A new E-class weighs as much as my old W126 S-class. SLK has never really been a raw light sports car anyway, never sought to emulate a Miata or similar. Just lighter than an SL, which became more of a fancy cruiser decades ago. Germans have been adding weight and size like mad, probably due to mindless EU safety regs - that's just how it is. I still wouldn't call the new one "big", just a little hefty.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    Maybe the best choice if someone who likes to drive wants such a vehicle...of course, those stars probably don't align with huge frequency.

    It certainly couldn't make the IS less remarkable.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited December 2010
    Well, to be fair, the 2011 SLK is supposed to shed roughly 200 lbs from it's 3200 lb curb weight which will bring in line with the latest Z4 which I researched and found weighed in at 3042 lbs.

    Also, being a Benz (and German), one would expect the latest and greatest in Mercedes technologies which adds significant weight for added safety (top crash scores, the latest host of whiplash and sensors) comfort (20 way heated and cooled seats, dual zone climate control) features ( Navi, COMMAND), and efficiency (8 speed auto?) etc not found in your Miata (2400 lbs) or other Japanese verts like my S2000 (2700 lbs).

    I would love to see a no frills SLK roadster come out with a cloth top, 6 cylinder and manual but I know it's not in the Mercedes way of doing things and could possibly devalue the brand... Would be really cool tho. :shades:
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2010
    Not that sporty, not that light, medium-sized, then. Still 0-for-3. ;)
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    Maybe more chuckable than an SL in the right configuration, lighter and smaller than an SL...in relative terms, 3-for-3 :P
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    In Germany, you can get it with a 4, 2 different 6s, and the AMG...the former 3 with manual. Never has been a cloth top though.
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    joeyrabjoeyrab Member Posts: 65
    I agree 100%. The psychology behind why (we) people start to like "other" newer brands is because, it is something new, sometimes we like the underdog...when it comes to cars it is real simple on how we can get hung up on a brand name...(mon drove one, favorite uncle had one, sick of seeing one brand at the top for so long...) ANYWAY, I am stumped, still can't figure out, why some people think a Hyundai made car is equal if not better than a Honda, Toyota, Fuji Heavy Industries Subaru made cars, or even little Suzuki corp. I still haven't found a person with a Hyundia at 200,000 miles on it...WAIT...and the car is NOT tied together with rope, hasn't had a ton of work...I have a friend....(family dentist), has had 2 Camry's, last one he got rid of a 378,000 miles, and his "newest" one has 198,000 miles on it. He drives all over the place. Point is, I just dont see alot of Hyundai owners saying this, and not lying about it....God sometimes it feels good to get that off my chest...thanks! I think Hyundai has come a long way, but I still don't think the car can hang with others after a certain point.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It sounds like people are more concerned with styling and fun these days and less concerned with resale value or safety or fuel economy.

    JD Power just came out with a brand loyalty rating. Ford was first, followed by Honda, then Hyundai, Toyota and Lexus.

    Hyundai is playing with the big dogs and stealing some of their toys.

    Ford, Honda win loyalty survey (Detroit News)

    "But with overall quality on the rise, more people in the latest survey said they wanted cars that were fun to drive, with that metric climbing 8 percent since 2009."

    I'll let the gallery comment on whether Hondas are fun to drive. ;)
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I'll let the gallery comment on whether Hondas are fun to drive.

    Compared to Toyotas? Oodles and OODLES of fun.

    Of course with the massive rebates at Toyota right now, I can buy a new 2010 Corolla at my local dealer for $14,5. Can't get near that price on a Civic, and Civic is going into its sixth model year.......Toyota has totally replaced GM of the 90s in the marketplace: cheapest interiors, least technically advanced powertrains, competing on price and sweetheart deals only.

    This has occurred even as GM has (with the government's magic wand) completely turned their business practices around and is now class-leading in some areas and at least average in all the rest.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm seeing reports about base Camrys for $17k in Northern California.

    Oodles, eh? :-)
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just went by a new huge sign at Toyota of El Cajon. Camry LE $249 down. That would be cheap even if you bought it to drive until the Repo man came to get it.
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    ben66ben66 Member Posts: 243
    I say it before and I say it again : toyota today is the AIG of the car industry, admired and good LONG AGO, BUT screwed up badly today because of their own fault and greed.

    You guys know who AIG is right ? The TITAN of the US finance industry. But due to their own greed, they self destruct in the end. So pls don't bring up old toyotas, made by previous generations of more decent toyota managers, who can survive 200,000 miles or more.

    The way I see it, with the kind of people running toyota today, including the famed Katsuaki Watanabe and his honchos still in power, before your toyota even reach 100,000 miles, you better hope your toyota don't go berserk, Saylor style....

    Cause if that happens, you will not live to see the 100,000 miles on your odometer. Ask relatives of the Saylor family.

    Remember folks, the PAST is NOT a guide to the FUTURE. Humans change, corporations change. Remember GM, AIG, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, these toyotas of the finance industry, all succumb to greed and mismanagement despite the big and exalted reputation they use to have.

    Now its toyota's turn in the car industry to suffer from this disease. Anyone who thinks toyota will forever be under great management, better wake up !

    Go buy a Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, Ford, pls folks. Why buy from the Madoff of the car industry today ? Do yourself a favour. As the old song sings " Make it EASY on yourself ".

    Don't suffer the Saylor family's fate. The odds are not big its true, but tell that to the Saylor Family relatives.

    God will not tell you in advance when its YOUR TURN in a berserk TOYOTA !!!
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "Toyota On Top Of The World Again. Ford And Honda Close Behind
    "

    The Blue Book has them as the most-considered auto brand overall. Toyota also leads in the non-luxury sedan/coupe/hatchback, and in the non-luxury SUV/CUV segment.

    BTW, not a fan of this new layout. Very tough to read... :(
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I will echo that - the new Town Hall layout sucks.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I still haven't found a person with a Hyundia at 200,000 miles on it

    They made great strides recently, so it'll take a while before we see their recent efforts hitting that kind of mileage. Unless Sonatas are used as taxis or something.

    C&D named the Sonata to their 10Best list, calling it "class leading attractive" among other things. ;)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I looked at the PDF with the details of that study, and what stood out to me was that 90% of import buyers bought another import. I forget the exact domestic score, but it was a lot lower than that.

    Bottom line - even Toyota's detractors go to other import brands. Probably Hyundai, given their recent gains.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    most-considered auto brand overall

    I think all of us can find some humor in that.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited December 2010
    Some respectable mileages here with no strings or glue, lol
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    500,000 miles


    Girl here at work is looking for a cheap utility vehicle for the winter and showed my this link. 500k is alot and the price isn't even close to reasonable but I found it comical. :D
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    crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited December 2010
    Gosh I can't believe the high prices. I can't imagine any of those selling for anywhere near the asking.

    Especially this one:
    $1,975 175,214 mi.Gray, 4 door, FWD, SUV, 2.4L I4,
    a Santa Fe that has very severe front-end collision damage. Thousands if not close to a total.

    That RAV4 with 500k tho takes the cake. Sure would have to have a lot of change hiding in the seats..

    Hey...maybe I should advertise my CRV in the US? Hmmmm
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    joeyrabjoeyrab Member Posts: 65
    Speaking of "Taxis's" a friend of mine went to Aruba, and I guess the taxi of choice is the Toyota Yaris...something to do with, "we can keep them on all day, nothing bad ever happens to them." So apparently Toyota hasn't become the new Dodge or anything.......................which is a good sign.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2010
    I think some of those miles are typos at your Cars.com link. :-)

    There's only two reports of Hyundais over 200k in the How many miles are on your Hyundai? discussion. But that's just a Santa Fe board.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    Has to be a typo...either that or the car was owned by a neat freak.

    200K+ miles in an (old) Accent? Someone is into self-torture :shades:
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited December 2010
    in the "most likely to buy another" sweepstakes is Kia Motors. 25% of Kia owners bought a Kia the next time they bought a car. Or words somewhat similar to those.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That is a HUGE improvement. I think everyone that bought one before sees how much they've improved recently, so they'll retain a bunch of those.

    Here's the full study, BTW:

    http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA71861129.PDF

    Kia actually improved to 58% retention, up 21% from last time. Average is 48%, so they went from well below average to well above average. Impressive.

    69% of domestic buyers stayed with another domestic (up 1%), while the number for imports was a whopping 90%.

    IMHO the most impressive numbers are from Hyundai/Kia, because they don't sell pickups here, so it's impossible to retain customers when their needs change and they need a pickup.
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    kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    in the "most likely to buy another" sweepstakes is Kia Motors. 25% of Kia owners bought a Kia the next time they bought a car

    Uh!!! :sick: That means 75% didn't and from the people I know who owned one in the past it's more like 95% wouldn't buy another Kia
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That number was inaccurate.

    Kia more than held its own with 58% of Kia owners buying another Kia, a fantastic result for a company that doesn't even have a full lineup (no pickups).

    Incredible, really.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good news for jobs here...

    YTD 2009: 820,920
    YTD 2010: 1,184,980

    Up 44.3%.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Funny thing. My youngest brother bought one of the early Kia Sportages. I figured him in for a major lesson learned but here it is it must be 10 years down the road and he's had no issues and loves the thing. I'd bet good money he'll buy another.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited December 2010
    I will third or fourth that opinion at well. Can't understand why edmunds could not have left well enough alone. This new layout sucks and it is very hard to read and follow at times.

    I don't know why people can't follow the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
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    crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I think this is where a dealer can make or break a mfgrs reputation.
    There is a friend of the family who had a small driveline issue with their Sportage (1st gen in NA) thatwas not far out of wty. The local dealer squirmed and dodged so rather than fight they paid them full pop to do the repair. As it turns out they did the repair incorrectly, which compounded the driveline issue into something huge. Bottom line, the dealer is a blatant crook. Wouldn't take responsibility even for their incompetent 'repair'. They took their plea to Kia, figured the dealer lied, so Kia stayed impartial. Last I heard, due to a bunch of bad luck and poor health with family, they caved in, gave up, took it to a jobber to have it done right. $1800.00 with the repair done correctly, they sold the Sportage and now...simply couldn't have more contempt for Kia. I'll tell you..it is on my mind as the Optima is my list. The irritating thing is that even if you find Kia innocent, the next dealer is about 70 miles away or more.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dealers will expand as they grow - Rockville Mitsubishi just closed and became a new Kia store. They have the whole building to themselves, too.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,174
    Lexus of Seattle has been airing some sweetheart lease deal commercials in heavy rotation - 299 for an IS250 AWD and I think 329 for the superPrius H hybrid HS250h hybrid H ...looks like the boring Japanese aren't moving any better than their lowline Euro counterparts.

    I'm waiting for the RX special that comes with a designer handbag :shades:
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2010
    Waiting for explorerx4 to chime in about that's meaningless unless *you* leased a car from them, LOL.

    So, trade in that AMG for a Lexus IS, did we?

    M-B USA has already conceeding, saying they won't try anything desperate to beat Lexus and BMW. Despite having the highest incentives already, that is.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    superPrius H

    Surprise: it's not based on the Prius platform.

    Nor does it use the Prius drivetrain.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Someone tell their web master....

    http://www.lexusofseattle.com/ViewSpecials_D?cs:a:i=lexDSE10-newModels-VS

    Says $319 with a big $3499 due plus that's only 10k miles per year.

    Roll that in to a nothing-down deal and it's $420 per month before you even add interest, more if you want 12k miles/year.
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