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Ford Excursion vs Chevy Suburban/GMC Yukon XL - The battle of the titans
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Here is one BIG difference:
In Mexico, the assembly worker has one of the most prized jobs in the whole country. If they get slack and start causing QA problems, then they are fired on the spot and replaced by another very eager worker.
In Janesville, or ANY US automotive plant, the job security and many other dynamics of the worker/management relationship prevents this ultimate job motivation. I have spent a good deal of time in the assembly and powertrain plants and observed this relationship first hand.
The glaring deficiency in both the of the Ford products is the complete lack of any head restraint in the rear seat. (back seat in F-150 or 3rd row in Exc) That means, that in a couple of years when the kids are big enough, at least one of them is at much grater risk of neck injury in a rear end collision. I am much more sensitive to this because a girl was killed here recently after being rear ended waiting to turn left on a highway. She was sitting on a bench truck seat and died of severe neck/head injuries. Others in the vehicle who had head restraints were Ok. How can anyone market an upscale vehicle like this without full head restraints? At least the Suburbans have 4 head restraints in the 2 back rows.
I live in Northern BC, and this is really 4x4 truck country. Lots of snow and ice, and at least 50% of the vehicles driving around are 1/4 tons or bigger. Personally, I much preferred the feel of the Excursion to the mushy no feedback feel of the Sub, and I found it felt more solid. The new Subs feel tinny and cheap to me. There is no way that their interior trim or finish is up to what should be seen in a vehicle of that price. I don't remember having that impression when we considered them in 98-99 against the minivans. Do previous owners have the same feeling? Yes, gas will be more expensive, but there are so many things I preferred about the Exc. However, if there is no way to get head restaints for our third child, it is a mute point. I will not buy the vehicle. Does anyone have any info on this?
Some may think I am an overanxious parent, but before you judge, visit the IIHS web-site for safety info re. head restraints. They should be considered in the same scale as seatbelts, and there is no way you would want your child riding without a seatbelt.
Volkov
Regarding the "the mushy no feedback feel of the
Sub, and I found it felt more solid" Comment: I respect your opinion, but I own or have recently owned 2 Saab 9000 Turbos, 1 Saab 900 Turbo, a Porsche 911, A Ford Expedition, A 91 Suburban, and a 2000 Suburban. The 2000 Suburban (with Autoride) drives like the Saabs even when towing 9000 lbs. Expedition is far better than the Excursion for keeping its tires planted on the pavement but they both feel as though they ride on $4.99 shock absorbers. They both feel top-heavy. The burb, IMO, drives like all next generation truck will drive is it uses modern multi-link rear and computer assisted shocks.
Did you test one with the Autoride and did you drive the Exc on a rough road? Don't make your decision until you have. As far as the interior goes, the Burb and Exc both have plastic interiors. I don't see a big difference here especally when you have been driving around in more plastic interiors.
good luck with your excursion, where did you
find 2.9% financing and for how many months. The
best I've seen here at the Ford Dealer was 5.9% for 36 months.
The ride is subjective, different people feel differently about it and who cares how a Saab handles, some people don't like the way it handles. That is why it is subjective. The EX vs Sub is a better comparison. The suspension system on the Sub is more modern and when I rode it, it felt slightly better handling but it didn't handle as well as my short bed 4x4 Chevy truck. (Which is as poor a comparison as the Saab). The EX is roomier inside. That is not subjective; the numbers show the EX to be 4 inches more shoulder and hip room and more head room. Is the Sub slightly better ride, slightly more quiet, 2 mpg gas economy increase $10,000 better? It may be cliché but that seems to be the $10,000 question. (Priced a similar featured Sub on the Chevy web site and it was $44,000 not to mention 2.9 5 year financing and availability. Chevy offers 0% financing on the blazer during truck month (no suprise there) but not on Silverado, Tahoe, Sub.)
Any experience with these two vehicles?
I do not tow anything yet, but I am not ruling it out (boat or maybe camper in the future).
I like the diesel for the increased mileage and longevity vs the Ford V8 and V10. Any ideas of the mileage I can expect with these various engines? The dealership says 10-12mpg with the V8 and V10 while with the diesel I can expect a little over 20mpg on the highway.
I have driven both (only once each) and the suburban seems more nimble which is to be expected due to the excursions size. I really like both vehicles.
How will the Chevy V8 hold up? Any major problems with this engine (5.4 liter) or transmission? Many recommend the Diesel, but these are primarily Ford people. There are still alot of Suburbans on the road so they must be holding up. Right?
I am just looking for advice, my family has outgrown the minivan and we do alot of outdoor recreation (camping, kids sports, etc..).
Thanks,
4sons
I too considered the diesel when I ordered my truck but I figured the longest that I would probably keep this truck would be ten years max and figured the gas engine would suite me fine and so far I'm not sorry for the decision.
Another factor about diesels is that they liked to be driven. They are not a good choice for the 1 mile ride down to the store and back. They need to be run hot. My brother is a diesel mechanic and says that the worst thing for a diesel engine is a quick hop and not letting it get hot. It can damage the turbo charger over time and that is a costly item to replace. Ford guarantees the turbo charger for 100,000 miles but for a diesel that's just getting broken in.
I hope all this information is helpful.
With 36,472 miles my battery cables were out of warranty. No problem my $1,700 extended warranty will cover it! Wrong again! Battery cables aren't covered, and neither is towing on uncovered components. I changed it in the rain. Took two pair of vice grips to free the cable from the bolt after it fell out of the battery. Later learned 1995-1997 GMC Sub's and Yukon's are currently being investigated by the government for the same problem. Before buying a Suburban, I urge everybody to research GMC's technical service bulletins, and visit the National Highway Transportation web site before they choose to purchase a GMC Suburban. Listed there are hundreds of complaints to the government, many similar to those listed above.
Thanks
Still I am seriously checking out the PSD Ex. I really like the machine. I am having a problem with the dealers (most don't know a truck from a tonka.)
Questions:
I want to order an Ex without all that body molding crap. Can you do that? If not, does it come off easily... without damaging paint etc? Are the cloth captain seats in the XLT the same as the leather captain seats (obviously except the shell)? Has anyone had any experience with the Banks power products upgrades to the PSD? What kind fuel mileage are the PSD Ex's getting?
Is the interior of an XLT the same as an LTD (with XLT options added to equal the LTD and I know the XLT does not come with the wood grain fluf.)
This has been a great thread. I hope some of you can help me fill in a few of the blanks that the dealers can't.
Any Ford Excursion brochure should be able to answer most of your questions.
Ans, Limited Excursions come with the mold, XLTs do not. You can take them off on the Limiteds but wouold have to scrape off some double sided tape. I heard of this from someone, I'd keep it if I had the Limited, maybe repaint it the same color as the whole truck. Seats are the same, the front middle 9th seat does not come in leather. All Limiteds and XLTs with Conveninece package which also has leather have a center console instead of the seat. Banks I heard is good, so are other upgrades for the diesel. Kenne Belle supercharger for the V10 but why?? 300+hp is enough for me. Check out ford-diesel.com forums for more info. As long as you get the Convenience package with the XLT, it's almost the same as the Limited, except no wood, no Limited embroidery and mine had no rear sensor warning thing. I think fog lights are an option on the XLT. I had to have silver so I had to get an XLT. Just check out the brochure, that's the most accurate info. Forget the guys that drive a pinto at the dealer.
FYI, there are a few changes on what's standard and what's an option between the 2000 and 2001 models.
Good luck,
C
cedosada@hotmail.com
had a problem. My wife wants a 3rd seat for our
children and a chevy dealer has a Blk 96 Suburban
K1500 with 4WD. It has 64K and as he claims " good
Maint. record". The dealer will trade straight
across.Is there any advice on this model from
anyone ? I'd love to hear an opinion.
Cheers
john
Before you trade the Expedition for the Suburban, go take a look at the Edmunds Suburban Townhall site. The number of blown engines and trannys is amazing.
I have not seen any noticable increase in milage....
Ford is currently having sales issues with the Excursion for a number of reasons: 1) It is too high to fit in most garages and parkades. The dealership had the "manager demo" that had to be lowered just to be used in downtown areas. (This is funny because I believe that I read the clearance of the Suburban is greater, headroom difference is negligible, but overall height is 7 inches lower than the Excursion). 2) The truck rides very poorly. 3) Fuel economy is beyond brutal. A person AT THE DEALERSHIP stated that you do not want the V10. Avg economy is around 3 in the city and 10 on the highway. OUCH! The diesel is better, but very loud and expensive.
Now, onto chevy. I owned a 95 Chev Z71 extended cab before this and found it to be an outstanding truck. Other than routine maintenance, I never had any issues that required any expensive or lenghthy repair times. (I fixed the seat that I broke through misuse and replaced the starter beginning to end in less than an hour). That's IT!
The new Suburban (2000+) has some incredible improvements. It's ride and comfort are second to none (including Expeditions) and are a real pleasure to drive. The ladies of the house should also feel comfortable driving this as visibility is good and steering is very light. I purchased the LS model (Loaded except for leather as leather is too cold in Canada!!) It has ALL the creature comforts one could ask for. The new 5.3 vortec is very modest on gas compared to the Ford products, yet power and towing capabilities are not compromised. I average close to 19-20 in mixed driving... Let's see Ford pull this off!!
I honestly went into this purchase with an open mind and researched and drove everything I could to come to this decision. Let's face it, these are not cheap vehicles and this decision should not be taken lightly. All things considered fairly and objectively, the Suburban wins hands down. Believe me, if Ford had the best, a Ford is what I would be driving, but it simply does not have all the technology offered in the Chevy and has a lot of refinements needed in order to compete.
Right now is a great time to buy a 2000. I was offered a great deal PLUS .9% for 4 years or 2.9% for 5 years (keep in mind this was in Canada).
Good luck in your decision and I hope the information above is helpful.
Wayne
The 2002 Ford Excursion will have adjustable pedals. That's it? Come on Ford!
As for all the money they're making, I'm not too sure about that. True, they have a hell of a profit margin in these trucks, but you gotta have sales to make the money. Right now they're trying to give these trucks away where I live...$7-9K off msrp for a new 2001 limited.
To be fair, demand for all new large SUV's is down, with the exception of the new Sequoia, but the Excursion is taking the biggest sales hit by far.
As for profitability, even with sales slow, I wouldn't worry about it. This is a big winner for Ford. Also, Ford can also simply build more Superduty trucks when Ex sales are slow. Can you really get one for $9K off MSRP?
Don't most parking garages have a height restriction at the entrance? The owner's son sounds like an idiot.
"
Well FORD did pull this off and did better. I'm getting 22-24 mixed driving and paying a lot less for diesel than you are for gas.
I have the PSD Excursion and is NOT loud in fact it is quieter when it hits speed than any vortec the planet.
Now for the whiners gripping about parking garages, give me a break, the MEN who drive Excursions add 3"-5" lifts on to their TRUCKS and the operative word being truck NOT Chevy station wagon. So we that build our truck even HIGHER than factory could care less about parking in some downtown garage, that we will never go to or park in anyway.
Why don't we complain on why the Excursion doesn't go 150 MPH
at the drag strip, or why it can't fly ...get real. It is what it is! The MOTHER of all trucks with enough power to tear a Suburban in half.
Since when is it a good thing to have a mushy ride in a truck. Oh, I know, when it's a Suburban Station wagon.
I read all the Hundreds of posts regarding lousy suburbans and tranny's etc, and the most incredible thing - all these Chevy guys complain about how the Suburban is falling apart, ( Brakes, tranny Rear end etc) and then on the next breath say it's the best vehicle they have owned HUH!!!!!. Ya, but its OK now they fix'd all the problems in the 2000. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Ya, right.
Let me get this straight, Suburban has been around for 65 years according to the commercial, and just now in 2000 - 2001 they got it right. Can I just ask one question here - What took them so long?
Ford first year out of the shoot, and it is heads and tails over a 65 year old WANNABE.
Does anybody doubt who would come out a winner if a Suburban and an Excursion were in a head on accident...I think NOT.
For no other reason with all the nuts on the road, you want to be driving in that tank with leather seats. Now that is music to my ears.
And as far as all the complaints regarding PSD Excursions from Chevy guys, I can tell you it's ALL bunk. And this is from someone who drive one every day, not a three minute ride at the dealership.
No, real MEN drive whatever they need to get the job done, nothing more. Those who drive big, jacked-up trucks just to look good are nothing more than WIMP wannabes.
1. I've got a wife (Sob; how will I ever face her?) and three kids.
2. I engage in such effeminate hobbies as surf fishing and astronomy.
3. A large suv with four-wheel drive might be just the ticket, if I can afford it.
4. The wife and I have frequent business in the big city (Houston, for the geographically challenged), and will probably soon be living there again.
5. The wife will be the main driver of the machine.
6. The Suburban would be ideal, but as our esteemed friend pointed out, has lousy reliability.
7. Since to my great shame I lack sufficient body parts in the, ahem, lower frontal regions, I am not able to work, live, play exclusively in the country. Therefore, the Excursion would probably be too big for me.
8. The Expedition and Sequoia remain as options. Dilemma: Sequoia reliability will probably be better than the Ford, but costs about $10K more.
Due to the above, I'm leaning toward the Sequoia, but no final decision yet. And finally, with regards to "gripping" about parking garages, I must reluctantly agree that I shouldn't do it. After all, as useful as opposable thumbs are, engaging in such behavior in the vicinity of attractive young housewives in parking garages could get a guy arrested -- questionable orientation or not. Oops, I've gotta' go; there's a run in my pantyhose.
Back to business, however. I too looked at the Sequoia and, frankly, if it hadn't been for the fact that it's the first year of the model, I would have opted for one instead of the Yukon we got instead. I've had several Toyotas before, and have had zero problems. The build quality and durability were great. I just never, ever, buy the first year of anything. I've heard a few (there are not many of these on the road yet) complaints about the 4wd and traction control systems; we live where there are lots of snow and ice, so people around here are pretty sensitive about those things.
As to which car is really better, it depends...on needs, and a lot of luck. Truthfully, I 've got a lot of friends and acquaintances who own both the Ford and the GMC. Most have had great experiences, others not. I wish there wasn't as much luck involved as there is, but so it goes. But, and this is just my opinion, Ford missed the mark with the Excursion. The beast is simply too tall and the turning radius is unbelievable. If Ford fixes those details, it's a player.
My $0.02 worth
The new GM diesel, the Duramax, is -- according to what I've read on the web -- not going to be available in the Burb until the 2003 model year :-(
When it is available, I've read, it is not going to be mated to the Allison transmission. (IMHO I believe that GM is really missing the boat here by not making the Allison available with the Duramax.) Also, apparently GM is going to "de-tune" the Duramax so that it will not tear up the tranny currently in the Burb. So, you will be able to get a diesel but not the diesel/tranny configuration currently available in the HDs.
Hopefully the Duramax will become the same class engine that Ford's PSD is today. Only time will tell.
As for the PSD...here is some information that I've pulled off the www.ford-diesel.com site regarding statements made during a presentation by Lew Echlin, Ford's Marketing Manager for Super Duty and Excursion products:
begin quote ->
"Recently I had the opportunity to give a presentation to over 3000 of our Ford Dealers during an intensive set of Dealer meetings meant to prepare them for the coming year. I was talking about only the toughest trucks - the over 8500 lbs GVW type, like our beloved F-250s though F-550s. Now, while I went on and on about the technical dominance of F-Series Super Duty trucks over their Dodge and new Chevy and GMC competitors, I stopped dead in the middle of the speech and asked 'How can we talk F-Series Super Duty without talking about Powerstroke?' the engine that made Super Duty what it is today. As if on cue, many Dealers knowingly shook their heads, because they know that we CAN'T talk about F-Series Super Duty trucks without talking about Powerstroke diesel.
So I devoted the rest of my speech to the new facts on the Powerstroke engine for 2001 and how it stacked up to the new Isuzu/GM Duramax engine, and I thought I share these facts with you.
There are three things that Powerstoke has at its very foundation of toughness:
1) Powerstroke is Proven in the market among customers like you
2) Powerstroke doesn't just look good on paper, it has 'street credibility' as the work engine and
3) Powerstroke is NOT a high maintenance, temperamental engine, it's designed for easy and low maintenance. In my effort to keep you empowered with key facts about F-Series Super Duty and Excursion, let's give you some key 'did ya knows'.
Ford Powerstroke is Proven in the Market. Did you Know:
- Powerstroke is the best selling engine in its class, Diesel OR gas
- Powerstroke outsells all diesel competitors, combined
- Powerstroke has been proven in over 1 million Built Ford Tough trucks
- Statistics show that even at 250,000 miles in service, 90% of Powerstroke engines have no repairs requiring head, pan or front cover removal.
Powerstroke is the Work Engine. Did you Know:
- The turbo charged Power Stroke turbo diesel provides peak power sooner, reaching peak torque power at 1600 RPM vs. 1800 RPM for Duramax.
- Power Stroke has an industry leading low-pressure common rail fuel system that is electronically controlled and hydraulically activated (HEUI), technology borrowed from medium truck applications.
- Power Stroke offers a proven tough solid 'V' block design with uniform cast iron block and cast iron heads, while Isuzu/GM Duramax has cast iron block with aluminum heads.
- Powerstroke now offers 520 ft./lbs. of Built Ford Tough torque in manual applications (and 505 in automatics)
Powerstroke is Designed for Low Maintenance. Did you Know:
-The lubrication system on the Powerstroke employs reusable gaskets.
- Powerstoke has an easy-to-access, spin off fuel filter and a visible air filter cleaner reminder.
- Powerstroke is so tough it has been certified for underground mining applications (and applied in countless other industries) and can even run on 'low lubricity' Diesel fuel like aviation fuel.
And to back this all up, Power Stroke comes with a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty standard in every F250-550 and Ford Excursion."
<- end quote
Ford has some very impressive things to say about the PSD and GM is bringing a new engine to this party. The PSD has the lead but the Duramax has potential. As I stated earlier, only time will tell.
It was suppose to be a 2000 model option.