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2004-2009 Toyota Prius Prices Paid and Buying Experience
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Comments
Cost certainly isn't an issue when they offer leather and navigation than can push the MSRP around $30K.
At this price range, lack of *at least* manual height and seat tilt adjustment is inexcusable.
Even a Kia Rio, which is one of the lowest priced new cars you can buy in the United States, has these manual adjustments.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, but I still think that weight is an issue. Take sunroof for example; same issue.
Also, they have to protect the Camry line - hence, not offering all of the options. In some ways the Prius has many of the same capabilities as the Hybrid Camry.
Well, lets see. I'd say maybe 6 oz for the knobs, maybe 5-6 lbs for the hardware inside the seat. Considerably more if an electric motor is involved to power the seat.
But I agree, I think this is most likely branding to keep from impacting Camry sales - or a combination of both.
Clearly weight of manual seats adjusters is not an issue in a car that weighs over 2900 lbs.
6lbs wouldn't affect the gas mileage of a motorcycle much less a Prius. In relationship to the total weight of the car, that is almost nothing.
In the UK, the Prius has a height adjuster, but unfortunately, no seat angle tilt adjustment.
Popular Mechanics did an article within the last year or so about a 4 passenger concept car not unlike Prius getting 100 mpg. It was a plug-in lithium battery, 40hp-turbodiesel hybrid made of light materials, total weight about 1800 pounds. Compare to Prius which has no plug-in, a 70hp or so gasoline engine and weighs about 2900 pounds.
Bob
The original posts were about power seats. I would bet that Toyota considered every weight in the Prius, from materials to design - and (of course) product branding and marketing...
The Prius is custom designed for MPG. Other cars compromise somewhat due to their being designed first as passenger vehicles and then being converted to hybrids. People may not think about it, but when Toyota works on the Prius, they have to keep this philosophy in mind - maximize MPG. The vehicle cannot be downright uncomfortable - but then not everyone dislikes the current seats either. Designers know from experience that seat "feeling" is subjective, and they know what seats to install that will please the widest market. However, the Prius should always (in my opinion) focus on the MPG - a concept that includes the entire vehicle, including the seats, their construction / materials, and design, in addition to more obvious things like engine choice, HSD computer programming, Tires, etc.
They miscalculated the importance because complaints about the drivers seat is the most common complaint of the Prius and I have seen more complaints about it than complaints about seats on any other car. A lot of people have purchased the car and then complain about the seats later.
Luckily, I rented the car for a day and decided it would not be something I would purchase and try to "learn to live with."
They have a height adjuster on the Prius sold in other countries.
A manual seat adjuster gets the job done and saves the weight of an electric motor if weight is a concern.
It doesn't have to be power seats or nothing. It could have been manually adjustable seats.
The weight of other options including a the weight of a Touring vs base Prius weighs more than a manual seat adjuster.
People can quit justifying lack of seat adjusters as a method of saving weight.
General discussions about the Prius belong elsewhere...
Thanks in advance for your cooperation..
regards,
kyfdx
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General discussions about the Prius belong elsewhere... "
Well, I suppose we could have asked how much it would cost to put in adjusting seats! :P
PRUSA
"I have a silver pine mica 2008 Toyota Prius Touring model with Package 6 ande gray leather available with carpet floor mats. The MSRP is $28,254. The internet price is $26,922 plus fees. I would have to order a Regular Package 6 with floor mats. I only have a silver. The MSRP is $27,734. The internet price is $26,498 plus fees."
So that's why I tend toward a Base over a Touring.
Completed my research and am looking to buy 2008 Prius with above mentioned extras. What is a fair price in San Gabriel Valley, Los Angeles area? What dealers are recommended?
Thanks
Please describe what you preferred about the Touring?
Nels
Mackabee
Still, from what I've seen on this forum, it's a pretty good price. Thanks to all for lots of good info.
I declined a 6yr/100k extended warranty for $1355. The original asking price was $1895. I figured that the drivetrain was already warranted for that time and that the first 3 years is under warranty. So the bet is that I will breakeven if I have one major replacement in years 4-6. I don't think I'd be tempted to buy the warranty for more than $800.
Price: $26,622
Fees: 288.75
Tax: 1,934.08
OTD: 28,844.83, $30,200 if I'd gotten 6yr/100k warranty.
I believe this not a bad price either. I fell like grabbing it. I can wait a month or two and see if prices go down a bit.
At this point, the credit is gone for the Prius but at least you know at the point of purchase exactly what the vehicle is going to cost you and the dealer can no longer jack up the price of the vehicle to get a piece of the promised but typically unrealized credit.
The debacle that took place toward the end of 2006 was nothing short of disgusting. Many people jumped for buying the 2006 model with the expectation of a full tax credit, even while the 2007 models were coming into dealer inventory. Many of these hapless folks unfairly took a terrible hosing because they were subsequently denied the use of the tax credit by the IRS, and further aggravated by the reality that they had purchased a Prius that was, for all practical purposes, a one year old vehicle.
So anyone curreently delivered from grappling with this bait and switch routine when buying a Prius should consider themselves fortunate.
Using "bait and switch" is a poor choice in this matter. Bait and switch refers to the action of "baiting" someone with one advertisement then "switching" the item for something different.
In this case, the tax credit never changed. It was "always" the same.
I think it was, is, and will be in the future a mistake for anyone to buy a hybrid car "just for the tax credit alone." This action to me implies that the buyer does not think the hybrid technology is worth the price they are paying and they are being swayed by tax money to buy something they would not really buy if the item had to stand on it's own merit.
As a hybrid advocate and owner since July 2004, I do not like an attitude like that. If you believe in the technology and want to either save gas or reduce pollution, then buy a hybrid vehicle.
But if you bought ONLY because of the tax break, I think you bought for the wrong reasons and I really can't muster any empathy for your situation. Sorry, but that's my honest take.
Nothing personal toward any one individual - I think any and all of the people who bought only for the tax break (or focused on which car to buy with the intent of receiving the tax break) made a mistake.
The tax credit was never intended to benefit the car dealer, and I think it did so only in the fact that maybe a few people made the mistake of buying only because of the tax break.
Remember, one of the main reasons the tax credit was offered was to get new car buyers to consider a hybrid vehicle over a conventional one to ease our demand on oil. I am sure there are many who would not have seriously researched/considered purchasing a hybrid who ended up purchasing one in part because of the tax credit.
So while they might not have shared your initial values about the technology, ultimately they made a vehicle purchase that would be consistent with your values.
Consider as well, that as more buyers show an interest in hybrid technology (regardless of what motivates them) the automakers will begin focusing their efforts towards meeting this demand. For example, how many SUVs were on the road prior to the introduction of the Ford Explorer or minivans before the Dodge Caravan. I would think that this is ultimately in alignment with your values as well.
So while you may not agree with the decision process that others may have made for their auto purchase, their decision ultimately benefited the environment for the near term (in reduced emissions) and hopefully for the long term (in motivating car companies to focus their R&D dollars towards the development of future hybrids).
I think that this should have all of our applause and support, and maybe a little bit of empathy as well.
Sorry for them because they did not get the tax break? TTTTRRRYYYYYIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG, TTTTRRRYYYYYIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG,
but I just can't get there.
They got the many benefits of owning and driving a hybrid as their reward.
I bought a used hybrid in 2004 and got no tax benefit; so I was one of those people who bought a hybrid with no tax benefit and no consideration thereof with my first hybrid, and then got the tax benefit from my second hybrid purchase, a new TCH in 2006.
So I'm in both camps I suppose.
At least you are trying
Back on topic. I saw some interesting prices on Prius' in the SF Bay Area on a want ad listing made famous by someone named Craig.
2008 Touring Package 6 26,800
2008 Regular Package 6 26,300
The internet manager at this Toyota dealership in San Bruno, said the Touring only comes in a package 6, is this true as Edmunds shows that you can get a Touring edition in a variety of packages, not only #6. I would be interested in a touring package, but don't want/need all of the other gingerbread that comes in the package #6. Is this internet manager mistaken or is this one of those regional things that Toyota likes to do.
If you don't have to purchase right away, you may want to wait for the 2009 model year refresh arriving in 2008, or the remodel which I think is coming in 2010. It is likely the prices of the 2008s will get very soft if the 2009 refresh has any significant improvements over the current model.
Of course, if oil goes over $100 barrel and gas prices go up to $5/gallon, then my theory about the 2008 prices is out the window...
I think waiting a month is fine if you are not pressed to buy.
Best of luck to you
MSRP $28,055
Invoice $25,728
Price being paid: $27,988
When you adjust my price by $100 (?) for the mats I paid $26,522. That's $800 over invoice. With a dealer holdback of 3% they had additional margin of about $600. At $1400 margin they aren't exactly giving them away.
BTW, in the Bay Area I calculate that my OTD price would have been $26,600 (INCLUDED DESTINATION and mats) + $300 + $2200 = $29,100
As to predicting the market I might have waited but there are too many variables. Soaring oil prices, which are just now being reflected at the pump, are a huge motivator for small car buyers. We've gone from $3.04 to $3.20 in about 10 days. I'd say there's another 20 cents coming even if oil stabilizes. Who knows where it will be in a few months? Maybe $100 a barrel, but maybe $70. Maybe.
Right now I'm sure it's stimulating sales and that's why I went ahead, before current demand overpowers current supply.
Some other factors weighing timing/pricing, pro and con: 1)Toyota can limit/up production. 2)Civic is a cheaper and better car and still offers the (illusory) incentive, though it gets about 37 mpg vs. Prius' 44 (Consumer Reports, 2007 models) 3) the general economy is looking iffy. 4) Loss of (perceived) tax incentive of Prius. 5) Other small cars, Yaris and Fit, comparable to base Prius in trim, cost many thousands less and get 32-34 mpg, depending on transmission. The price difference is (currently) equal to as much as 100,000 miles of gasoline--check this out for yourself. Their resale should be outstanding. (My 02Civic only lost $6,000 from its OTD price to its current price over 72k miles). 6) The 2010 Prius, as mentioned. (My own guess is that they are having major problems with the proposed lithium battery, expense, reliability, safety).
BTW, my other car is an electric bike. I use it to substitute about 100 miles of car travel a week. 2000 mpg-equivalent. Fun, too.
Civic hybrid: 37 mpg overall average, 324 gallons/12k miles.
The difference is 50 gallons/12k miles.
At an average price of $5/gallon gasoline for 50,000 miles the Civic costs about $1,000 more than the Prius. If you do mostly highway driving the difference would be even less as they are rated 47mpg vs. 50 mpg respectively. But Civics are NOISY. But if gasoline prices are way up when you go to sell you Civic, the Prius would have the edge.
With gasoline at $10 gallon that 50 gallon/year difference is $500/year.
If it weren't for the noisiness I'd have gotten a HCH at plus or minus $3,000 or so less than a Prius.
I think the OEM leather option for the Prius has a lot of plastic sections. The one provided by a leather company is more likely to be 100% leather.
Overall I would pick the Touring b/c of the larger wheels and better tires first and foremost. The tires are MUCH higher quality than the 15" on the base.
Again, not a huge difference b/t the two, but noticeable enough for me. I am a little younger than the avg Prius driver so that may have something to do with it as well.
This is my first automatic trans vehicle in 35 years....it's nice, but I do miss that involvement. I have my Vanagon, Alfa, and Fiat though if I want to stir gears.
PRUSA
If Government would renew incentives for buying fuel efficient cars, we could solve our oil problem much quicker.
Just picked up my car. Silver pine mica color.
Exactly $30,000 OTD (tax is 7.25% in my county, I think). Check my former mail for the exact amount I paid in tax.
They slid and slid and slid on the warranty so I finally got it. They slid and slid on the polish and Scotch Guard but I didn't get it.
Final price for warranty was $1150 for a platinum warranty (everything covered except for wear items like windshield, tires, wiper blades, etc.) 6 years/100k miles. Remember though that the first 3 yr/36 is already covered by the basic warranty, so really you're buying an extension, years 4-6/miles 36k-100k.
The warranty is tranferable one time. So if you plan on selling your car before the warranty is up you have a very valuable selling point. Very valuable. You can tell the buyer, "There is nothing wrong with the car that I know of. But if something were to happen it is totally covered." Sell the car near the end of the warranty for best value, imo. As a person I'm very skeptical, but at $1150 I think the warranty is very much worth it for the resale point of view alone. Though Toyota is a great brand there is a lot to go wrong on the Prius, also.
The dealership, Toyota of Santa Maria, CA, about 2.5 hours north of LA is fantastic. So professional. The Internet manager/sole salesman, DT, is a lambchop. Just a totally trustworthy decent guy. (What has happened in this world that car salesmen are far more decent than flight attendants??)
The car is quiet, decently powered, solid on the road. Complicated toys!! But I have a ten year old daughter so everything will be OK by late tomorrow afternoon.
One possible regret. Touring tires are quite a bit more expensive than Basic tires. Before committing to a touring pretend you are buying replacement tires and check costco.com or tirerack.com to see if you are satisfied paying so much to replace tires. (I love the Michelin Primacy tires I just put on my Civic). I must say the Touring rides very well compared to my Civic.
Good luck. Buy a Giant Suede electric bike with the money you save and substitute some of the miles you'd be driving a car. 2000-3000 mpg.
protection sheet below the trunk lid and on the top of the bumper.
I've been offered the following lease on a 2008 Prius Model 1224A (PKG 3)from Boch Toyota in Norwood Massachusetts:
term: 48 months
money factor: .00275
17,000 miles per year
residual value: 10,316
MSRP: 25,289
agreed upon value: 22,619
GAP insurance: 595
Acq fee: 550
doc fee: 298
title: 84.5
gross cap cost: 24,146.5
monthly payment: 349.52
tax: 17.48
total monthly: 367.00
Any comments on this deal are greatly appreciated!!!
Regards,
Kelley Connolly
I am interested in getting a Prius but not until March 08.
Does it make sense to wait?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
With gasoline prices spiraling up I'd say sooner is better than later. We're at $3.46/gallon, San Luis Obispo county average, for unleaded regular and the cheapest I've seen this week is $3.33. I read an article that speculates that prices will reach $4.50 by next summer. Small-car salesmen tell me that every time there's a spike in gasoline price they make a lot of sales. I could picture lines out the door at Toyota by then.
As you can see by my previous post I just got an 08 Touring and I paid about $1400 below msrp when you factor in the retail price of the mats. My bet is that I would not be able to get that deal in March. But it's just a hunch based on the trend for gasoline.
:confuse:
I agree with Bob entirely.
Here in So. Cal. the price of gas is about the same as SLO and there are Prius cars everywhere, far different from when we first bought in 3/05.
We bought two cars in Feb 07 and are very happy.
Hard to predict supply in the future but with oil @ $100/brl or so the demand should be consistently high.
Carl