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BMW 335i 2007+

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  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Here's what I'd do: deposit that money in one of the high-yielding online savings account. (GMAC Bank is currently paying 5.3% on its insured money market savings account, for example.) I don't like paying today for services that I might not use for years, thereby allowing someone else to earn interest on my money. In your case, you'd be forfeiting $140 per year, which is what you could earn on the nearly $2800 that your dealer wants you to cough up.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,673
    The 17" Conti RFT tires/profile are exact same all weather setup but the xi stays flatter.

    What do you mean by "flatter"? Increased roll stiffness? If so, thats very interesting, as the 330xi rear anti roll bar is 2mm smaller in diameter than the one fitted to the 335i(13mm vs 15mm), while the front bars are identical, at 26.5mm.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Just a Top Gear video with the same professional driver on the same course wit both cars. The results make sense to me.

    You really need to go into politics. Was it you, or someonw else that clipped that video link before it had time to conclude? :confuse:

    Listen to the conclusion again, you can clearly hear (in response to whether the 4 posted a faster lap time)

    "Yes, by 1/2 second, BUT the (driver) said - and I agree - the 2 wheel drive is still the nicer..CUT". Obviously someone wiht an agenda didn't want us to hear the rest.

    As I recall from seeing the entire video some time ago they concluded the 2 wheel drive was more nimble, better handling, better full straightaway accleration, and generally more fun to drive. The C4S performed well in an indoor rally course with the longest straightaway of about 100 feet where the initial acceleration of the turns favored AWD. But they even refer to the C4S in the video as "heavier and ponderous" around corners. The only advantage it had was in the initial acceleration out of corners, due to putting all of its power to the road. But getting a faster lap time required them to essentially construct a course in which that one advantage was employed to it's maximum potential.

    I don't expect my driving experiences to include an indoor ralleye on a course the size of a football field. For my real world driving, the less "heavy and poderous" RWD is my preference. But thanks for the video, it was entertaining.

    And let's me also put my preference in perspective - I would not kick a C4S out of my garage if one showed up there one night. Same would be true for a 335ix, although I might be tempted to swap it for just the "i".
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,770
    I was recently offered the trie and wheel insurance warranty thingy when my wife and I picked up our X3 last week (The finance guy actually tried to tell me that one wheel and one tire would cost over $900 to replace and that at $811 the tire insurance is the best bargain out there). It isn't worth it. We live in NY where thew roads aren't exactly glass smooth. If you hit a pothole and blowout a tire that needs to be replaced (All runflats need to be replaced when punctured). The tire insurance will cover that tire (which will probably be a lot cheaper from the tire rack than from the stealership). You have to replace 2 tires when one goes and the warranty will not cover the second tire.

    Almost $2 grand for extended maintenance seems excessive to me.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Isn't the 335i coupe longer than the sedan? And hasn't the 3-series sedan historically had better weight balance than the coupe? If the answer is "yes" to those questions, wouldn't it mean the sedan is the sportier 3-series?"

    The coupe body is 3" longer, but they ride on the same wheelbase. The coupe also weighs 11 lbs more.

    I would say that the differences in length and weight are indistinguishable behind the wheel.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    What may not be indistinguishable behind the wheel is body flex. Over the last couple of generations, the 3-Series sedans have been a bit more structurally rigid than the coupes.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nkeennkeen Posts: 316
    Dimensions aside, the coupe looks like a big car -- on road presence is more like the 3.0 CSi of yesteryear. Perhaps it should have been called a 4-series after all?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    I didn't clip it but thanks for the endorsement!

    I have seen that driver, "The Stig", on Top Gear vids and the guy can really handle any car. I saw him whipping a 5 series at a ridiculous rate but on a perfect line.

    I fully respect your opinion and have huge respect for your expereiences. I also wouldn't kick out a C2S or 335i from my garage if by chance I received such a blessing pro bono. Then, I would probably get a good set of snows for the i or never drive my c2s in the snow.

    For me, the political animal that I am, (NOT), I basically just combined foul weather needs with a sport bias into one choice for me in '06. The experience with this BMW far exceed the bland road dynamics of the ALL-American campaigns that I have been on since I started on the trail!

    I probably will do it again at the end of '08. Then, my dream car will appear in my garage which will be a MT, RWD "something"! That's my vote! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    What may not be indistinguishable behind the wheel is body flex. Over the last couple of generations, the 3-Series sedans have been a bit more structurally rigid than the coupes.

    What is the information basis for that? Intuitively, that doesn't seem to make sense, nor is it consistent with my limited test drives.

    The last and new generation M3 is obviously based upon the coupe "structure". I was told that part of the reason the former 4-door version of the M3 was discontinued is that, with 4 doors to accomodate, it could NOT be made as structurally rigid as a coupe and that BMW wanted to keep the M3 as the performance showcase. Also, from what I read, the center of gravity is higher in the sedan vs. coupe.

    From my test drives, the difference between the coupe and sedan were minimal, but it deed seem to slightly favor the coupe in terms of less body roll around my favorite beltway on-ramp. I was told in 2004 that all of the coupes had a firmer sport suspension than the sedan counterpart, but I'm not sure I trust that salesperson nor do I know if that is still the case. Maybe Top Gear could run a sedan vs. coupe test. ;)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... But I would still expect the coupe, given it's M3 kinship, to get around a track in the hands of a professional faster than the sedan.

    That would make an interesting head-to-head, 335i coupe w/ Sport vs. 335i sedan w/ Sport. Anybody got any connections with some magazine editors/writers? ;)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The experience with this BMW far exceed the bland road dynamics of the ALL-American campaigns that I have been on since I started on the trail!

    Amen and congratulations on that.

    Also, FWIW, I have a TL 6-speed as my "not-so-daily" driver. Have only put 4,000 miles on it in the 22 months that I have had a 911, which now is just under 16,000 miles. So in terms of driving dynamics, while I think the TL 6-speed is sporty enough for a family sedan, it doesn't hold a candle to any of the 3-series, RWD or AWD.
  • jo2jo2 Posts: 41
    I am a father of one and currently drive an 2006 530i which I love, but the lease is up and I was thinking about getting the 335i. I drove it and it was ridiculously fast but to be honest I almost felt like it was faster than the handling was built for. Anyone have any opinions on this?

    Also has anyone compared the 335 and 528? What are all your opinions on the two? I would consider the 535 but I think its more than I want to spend since its gone up since I bought my 530

    Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    If you prefer driving dynamics first and luxury second, the 335i would be a better fit. You will get a better feel from one of the owners on this thread but IMO, the standard suspension is well within the capability of the power. The trick is to opt for the SP which will provide even more driving control but, again, is performance oriented rather than luxury.

    IMO, since you have a 5'er already, only you can decide whether the room/comfort and driving dynamics suite you in the 5 or rather save some money for the 3.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I have no concrete evidence to point to for support of my comments, except to say that I've read it enough times and from enough different sources the believe that there might just be something to it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    It seems possible/likely that the coupe was more rigid than the sedan on an older platform, but that this may no longer be true today--or it might not be...

    it is true that the current m3 is stiffened compared to the e92 coupe; bmw put additional reinforcement in the floorpan and made the roof carbon fiber to offset the weight: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2008/review.html
  • I'm a little late to the discussion, but I see some interesting myths being promoted here that compel me to respond.

    Over the last couple of generations, the 3-Series sedans have been a bit more structurally rigid than the coupes.

    Complete BUNK. The coupes have always been and still are the "tighter" in terms of structural rigidity, body flex and body roll of the two variants.

    Even in the current model, you have to order the sport package on the sedan to get a sport suspension which is still not quite as stiff as the coupes. But more importantly, the coupe is a full 1.7" (3.5%) lower than the sedan, producing a 1/2"+ lower center of gravity. That alone, in the exact same suspension setup, would noticably reduce body roll. In addition, while the B pillar in the sedan has been strenthened to offset the impact, the four door accomodation REDUCES body structure rigidity.

    I have no vested interest or axe to grind here. I own a 2003 M5 sedan. My nephew owns a 335i sedan, with sport package. A couple of weeks ago, we went to a "Friday at the Track" event and got an opportunity to drive a 335i coupe back to back. There is NO question, that the coupe is tighter around the corners, and exhibits less body roll. In the case of a 335i sedan without the sport package, the difference would be even more pronounced.

    Understand, please, that after at least 5 trips to the BMW factory, I can say with confidence that many BMW engineers, especially the oldtimers, gripe about the "American market" that forced BMW to increase the size and weight of the 3-series and add 2 more doors way back in the 1980's. Their "pure" 3 series would be a lighter weight, lower and smaller coupe. Period.
    ______________________

    The second myth is that AWD is better than RWD with respect to performance.

    That is a little harder to debunk, because it first requires and agreement as to what is "better" and even what is "performance". But it seems that some AWD advocates are suggesting that, not only does it improve performance when road conditions reduce traction, but in all road conditions. Again, I would say "BUNK".

    And again, as a 2007 911 Turbo owner, I obviously don't have a vested interest in promoting RWD. But I can assure you that if the Turbo came in a RWD version (which it effectively will with the release of the GT2), I'd have paid MORE for it. My recent experiences with a GT3 on a track confirmed that desire.

    In the case of otherwise identical cars, AWD is a "foul wheather" advantage, and a performance disadvantage at all other times that traction is not an issue. You can't overcome the added weight and loss of drivetrain efficiency without having a slippery surface on your side.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    In the case of otherwise identical cars, AWD is a "foul wheather" advantage, and a performance disadvantage at all other times that traction is not an issue. You can't overcome the added weight and loss of drivetrain efficiency without having a slippery surface on your side.

    I totally agree...but IMO, sometimes you get faster results on a given track/road course with AWD vs. RWD which, I agree, is not pretty!

    And when the slippery surface is on your side, it's unbelievable in the 3'er!

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Complete BUNK. The coupes have always been and still are the "tighter" in terms of structural rigidity, body flex and body roll of the two variants."

    Thanks for the correction. As I stated in a follow up post, I have no real concrete evidence to point to to back up my statement, just anecdotal postings from other folks that I had never seen contradicted. You seem to have taken care of that in one swell foop, so thanks again. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • xeyexeye Posts: 162
    Interesting, and authoritatively stated. The one thing that everyone seems to miss, though, is a reference point. The Empire State Building may be "more structurally rigid" that the Chrysler Building, but who cares? The handling of both the 335i and the 335xi (which I drive) are both super. You'd have to push both way beyond reasonable, not to mention legal, limits before either one would falter. Given that, I'll take the exceptional handling AND safety of the xDrive any day. So, I can only go 130 mph. BFD!!

    To be honest, if you're driving at the limits you complain about on U.S. public roads, I don't want you anywhere near me. I am exceptionally happy with my 335xi because I can maneuver around, and out-accelerate, 99% of the vehicles on the road today. Isn't that plenty good enough?
  • 06ltd06ltd Posts: 25
    It certainly should be good enough. How has your mileage been - low, high, average?
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,673
    To be honest, if you're driving at the limits you complain about on U.S. public roads, I don't want you anywhere near me.

    Don't worry, you'll be a rapidly dwindling speck in my rear view mirror. Of my Wrangler- never mind my BMWs... ;)

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • centralcalcentralcal Posts: 215
    I also haven't been on the board for awhile. I agree with everything you say. I have to say I get tired of this "european?" opinion about bigger versus smaller cars. My european experience would say that "they" would prefer bigger/more powerful cars, it is just that the average consumer can't/won't pay for it (gas, parking, etc) This is is the largest difference in the US versus others market. Also, it is still about the bottom line. As long as they (put any company here) make a ton of $$, they will make what the market desires, US or otherwise. The US consumer continues to have more disposable income than other developed countries and we will continue to use it as they see fit. I am personally very excited about the 1 series, but I have tons of friends who love their bigger cars.
  • xeyexeye Posts: 162
    I'm still on my initial free tank of gas from the dealer, but I'm working on it! I have barely 100 miles on the car. From this perspective, decent, I guess! I'll post mileage when I get a few more tankfulls in.

    Does anyone find any difference (other than the price) between 91 and 93 octane in the twin-turbo 335 engine?

    Anyone in the Boston Chapter of the BMWCCA?

    xeye
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    When you hit the first turn on this proposed race in your "Wrangler" you will be "Mangled" trying to keep up with the 335xi. Stick to your other BMW's! The only specks you will see is the dust as you slide off the road. Let's get real please.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,673
    Does anyone find any difference (other than the price) between 91 and 93 octane in the twin-turbo 335 engine?

    Like all modern Bimmers, the 335i engine management system has a knock sensor. If the use of lower octane fuel causes detonation, the ECU will roll back ignition timing and/or boost pressure. Which will result in a loss of horsepower and a decrease in fuel economy.
    You also need to do the math. In my area there is a 20 cent per gallon difference between regular and premium fuel. If you drive 15,000 miles per year and average 20 mpg you will use 750 gallons annually. The price difference amounts to all of $150 per year- the princely sum of 41 cents per day. And that's assuming the lower grade fuel doesn't reduce your fuel economy. All of my cars save the Wrangler call for premium fuel, and that's exactly what they get. In addition I only use Top Tier gasolines, just as BMW recommends.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,673
    Let's get real please.

    My tongue was only partially in cheek. I have never lost a "speed contest" by underestimating the driving ability of the typical US vehicle operator("driver" being to generous a term). At CCA drivers schools I've seen stock a E30 M3 nearly lap an E39 M5. I've also seen an E36 325i give a C5 Corvette fits. I once ran off and hid from a Subie WRX on a rainy two lane, and I was at the wheel of a 1993 Pathfinder SE(the shocks were set to "Sport" however). Mike Valentine once told me that at most schools there may a 5-10 second per lap difference between the cars, but there will be a 25-30 second gap between the drivers. A fast car doesnt make you a fast driver. I'd be willing to bet that fedlawman and his real M3 would slice and dice 99% of the owners on this board even if they were driving a new M Coupe. I always suggest that serious BMW owners attend a bunch of CCA schools so that their driving skills will not be overmatched by their car.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    Well said and agree drivers need to get serious by training first. These cars are extremely capable..in the right hands.

    I would not take your bet regarding "The Fed". I also wouldn't bet on 99.9% of the Wrangler owner against you in yours!

    Regards,
    OW
  • getzgetz Posts: 24
    "I once ran off and hid from a Subie WRX on a rainy two lane, and I was at the wheel of a 1993 Pathfinder SE(the shocks were set to "Sport" however)".

    As a well seasoned big city emergency medicine physician, I would like to make a simple plea. Please try not to kill my wife and children while performing your "validate my manhood" antics on public roads. Keep it on the track.

    As an aside, currently debating the upcoming M3 vs C63 AMG vs S5. I drove the 335xi and found it to be very intriguing, but am jonesing for a bit more hp. What are your thoughts?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,847
    If you follow the BMW forums, the general consensus is that the sedans are much stiffer than the coupes, and this applies to both the E36 and E46 models..

    Like shipo, I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but those who track the cars attribute it to the presence of the B-pillar in the sedans. They also say that fold-down rear seats lead to more flex, as they remove some of the bracing behind the back seats. I believe these are standard on the coupe, but optional on the sedans.

    So, there you have it. I don't know that the reasoning applies to other makes, but the guys that should know swear by it.

    regards,
    kyfdx
    visiting host

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    What you just wrote dove-tails exactly with what I've read elsewhere. A combination of a "B" pillar and the extra bracing behind the rear seatback contribute to a stiffer sedan, or so I've read. To be sure I have no horse in this race, and only want to know for curiosities sake. I wonder how we get a definitive answer. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
This discussion has been closed.