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Like many others, I too wish major car components lasted well past their warranty. I wish they lasted the life of the car. But they sometimes don't. For most of us, though, Hondas cost less to maintain and are more reliable. I had a Toyota tranny fail at 106k. Now I know that shouldn't have happened, not when it was serviced regularly and driven sensibly. Otherwise, the car was flawless.
Bottom line, cars have become so much more reliable than a few decades ago that almost any flaw has now become unacceptable. That sounds to me like a perfect setup to be disappointed.
I do appreciate the laugh!
Seriously, you are embarassing yourself.
I have been attempting to give you some benefit of doubt. Not any more though bud. Consider this my last reply to you. In fact I think you more closely resemble a troll and your last post just confirmed it.
Glad you are retired from the business. Salesmen are notorious for not having a clue about what they are selling anyway. But you aren't selling anyone here anything.
edit- friendly pc of advice....it is ok if you want to retract what you said and admit you stepped over the line. There is no shame in admitting you were...dare i say....wrong.
Thanks for sticking to the topic.
I have an '02 Honda--88K--AC went out July 10. The first dealership said, "You are the second owner and haven't been having your car serviced here. No help from us." Yesterday, I purchased a new Honda Element from a different dealership and left the CR-V there for them look at. I requested that they call American Honda and ask for a goodwill warranty. I don't expect any help, though.
"Sell" it to someone else, ok?? Or better yet do a full retirement.
I suggest to you HONDA, to slow down and be more sure where you are slinging your accusations.
note to HOST - I mean no disrespect to your request to keep it about the A/C compressor on this thread by defending myself here, but I did ask nicely that he not put words in my mouth. And I feel it is important that others DO understand the risks of the loss of a serpentine belt. If you are mechanical yourself, you will know what I said is true in post #1604 and I would like you to quash these idiotic/incorrect posts/accusations by (the one who would have us believe he sold hondas) by feebly attempting to dispute my good and absolutely correct advice.
These could be dangerous. Let's say you are using you defroster on a day when the road is really slippery. You AC could lock up and it could cause your CRV to go into a skid. This is a scenario that could really happen and in this case the AC would be a safety issue. It could happen to you living in your simple refrigerated climate. All you would have to do is turn on your defroster unless you don't use that either
a) I drive stick. Whatever happens to engine, I have full control over the connection between the engine and transmission. Whether the engine decides to rev out of control, or cuts out and siezes. I have full control of the clutch, the connection between the engine and transmission.
b) I have actually re-programmed the de-fogger to have manual over ride over the compressor engagement. Simply because A/C is not always needed. Winter air is usually dried by the formation of snow crystals.
c) Defroster has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the windshield. Defroster is thin wires that heat up when current is aplied. Most cars have them on the back window, but some, like subaru, have them at the base of the front windshield to keep the wipers from freezing.
d) Applying brakes on a slick surface will cause the vehicle to go into a major skid more so than a siezed a/c compressor.
e) Automatic transmission does not have a direct connection between the engine and transmission. Torque converter is just another form of viscous coupling. Which is what allows you to step on the brakes and stop the vehicle, while the engine is running. Shutting off engine at speed will just let the vehicle coast with some resistance. But, no where near the direct resitance that a manually operated clutch allows. Hence, one can't bump start a dead car with automatic. There is too much loss in the torque converter to turn the engine while the car is rolling.
f)If you are caught in a humid location without the functioning A/C to dehumidify the windshield, turn on the heat. Hot airt will clear up the windshield just as well as A/C. Ever wonder why people with forced air heat have dry skin if they don't have a humidifier?
I am not asking you, or anyone else to be an automotive expert, but common sense and 6th grade physics, as well as 4th grade earth science concepts apply to pretty much everything we encounter in every day life.
Yes, Honda has a problem with compressors blowing up, but it is not a safety concern. It is simply a comfort concern, and as far as I know, there is no government agency to guarantee comfort.
I think that is correct. IMHO, Isell was simply asking that we all move on and didn't intend to imply you were responsible for the original statement. In any case, it IS time for all to tone it down and move on.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You were NOT the poster who said losing an AC pump could cause a car to go into a skid and somehow I didn't read your other post.
I wasn't putting words into your mouth, I simply responded to the wrong poster and for that, I apologize.
Still such anger?
Your other post definatly cleared things up and I don't know how I missed it.
If a compressor fails, it **can** fail suddenly and without warning but in most cases a failing compressor will give warning. They will usually make a lot of noise fefore they sieze.
But if it were to suddenly sieze it could snap the belt and result in a loss of power steering. Highly unlikely put I guess someone who was unable to react to the loss of power assist could have a problem.
But, this would be true with any make and model of car.
Sorry for the confusion. It wasn't intentional.
http://automobiles.honda.com/mile-makers/submission.aspx
Here you go! You can show off the exploded a/c compressor.
I understand that no car company is going to be perfect, I just happen to like the Subaru more than any car out there....until I drove a TSX at lunch.
Saga continues...
Just wondering, but on my 2003 the "de-programming" actually just turned off the AC light, not the compressor. Was that changed for the Gen 3?
Well, most repairs carry a 1 year warranty, so if it is your A/C compressor blowing up, make sure they fix the entire system, not just replace the compressor.
It could be something simple to track down and fix.
I used this method: A/C and Defroster programming
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Subarus are good cars but they have had more than their share of problems.
The second dealership that looked at my car said it wasn't the whole system that was contaminated, but to fix it is $2,000. No help from American Honda this time either--although I have a '97 Honda Civic with over 300,000 miles AND I bought a new Honda Element EX. The optimist would say I saved $1,000. The pessimist would say, I spent $23,000 (that includes the $2,000 repair.) I think I may have the CR-V already sold.
This has been one big headache, but I do love the new Element, and I believe I got an exceptional deal on the Element EX. I still will write some letters to American Honda and the 1st dealership :P ; they haven't heard the last from me yet. I will go on websites that mention these dealerships by name and rate them telling of my harrowing experience with the first. :mad:
However, I am curious if anyone else out there is getting any "goodwill warranty" help these days with the A/C issue.
MOST IMPORTANT, file a complaint with the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) by first sending an email to Contact NHTSA on their website:
NHTSA Contact
You should receive a "case number" email within a week and a toll-free number 1-888-327-4236 to file a complaint. You will need to provide the time and mileage when the a/c system in your CR-V failed. You may opt out of providing your VIN. You will be asked for a contact telephone number and a mailing address to receive a copy of your complaint. NHTSA "promises" to investigate your complaint within a 48-hour window and contact you to follow up. (I filed mine today. So I will let you know what they say within the next couple of days.)You could file a complaint without first sending the email, but I suggest you do so you can receive a case number (to go along with the complaint) with a detailed summary of why you believe American Honda should be responsible for the replacement of a defective system due to the design of the a/c system in the CR-V. And also state your case why you believe driving without a/c is a SAFETY HAZARD.
I urge all of you who have suffered the injustice of driving a CR-V in 100+F heat without a proper functioning a/c due to no fault of yours to contact NHTSA. STATE YOUR CASE to make them realize that driving w/o an a/c is a SAFETY HAZARD especially in areas that have extreme hot and cold weather AND when the well-being of young children, the aged and the sick are the unfortunate PASSENGERS involved.
We all need to keep on pressing American Honda to NOT let them pull a BP on us. THANK YOU!!
Than whose fault? Does it have to be someone's "fault" when a component that is way out of warranty on an eight year old car with lots of miles finally fails?
" Let's press American Honda to NOT let them pull a BP on us"
Am I the only one here who thinks that was totally over the top?
We all need to keep on pressing American Honda to NOT let them pull a BP on us. THANK YOU!!
Even if EVERY ONE of the CR-V A/C compressors failed there would not be nearly as many people affected as have been by the gulf oil spill. And the ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT of a measly 1-2% of failed A/C compressors is no where near the environmental impact of the oil spill, not even 1/1,000,000th of that.
BP is paying over $20,000,000,000 for the clean up. What is it pulling over you?
Just wondering, but on my 2003 the "de-programming" actually just turned off the AC light, not the compressor. Was that changed for the Gen 3?
Not sure if the procedure applies to Gen 3....
I live in New England! I use a/c 3 months out of the year! This is not acceptable to me. SO MAD! Thinking my next vehicle will not be Honda.
I can accept a defect, but I cannot accept how they are not owning up to it. This disgusts me.
Any specific maintenance or care that could be done to prevent the problem? Taking my car in for its 60k maintenance soon. Theoretically, using the A/C less frequently would make it less likely it would break, right?
I've gotten such useful information from this forum that I decided to stop being a lurker and finally add some of my thoughts.
I have an '02 CR-V and the AC system just failed on us. Of course, it was during the recent hot spell and we had one hell of a ride home when the system shut down for good.
I admire anyone who has the persistence to try and make Honda cough up the bucks to help defray the costs of the fix, especially for such an old vehicle. Since I am cheap (I prefer to view myself as being fiscally conservative), I view a Honda fix as the expensive way to go because one gets a discount for a wildly expensively priced fix which results in more money for Honda.
While I am no expert, I am dumb enough to rip anything out of my cars to try and fix it myself and thought I'd pass on my results for your consideration. My car's system died at ~77K miles. About two years ago I noticed that the AC was starting to blow warmer on really hot days. I bought a set of Chicom gauges from Harbor Freight and found the pressures to be OK. What I did notice is that the dealer mounted the front license plate (THANK you New Jersey) smack dab in the middle of the air flow to the condenser and radiator. I moved the license plate mount to the far left side of the "bumper" and I immediately noted a substantial drop in the vent temperature, especially at idle. Obviously a bad design by both Honda and the dealers.
But it was now obvious that the lack of cooling had a long term detrimental effect on the AC system and this year it just died. I have the shop manual and ran the diagnostics and found there are no error codes but that the electric clutch for the AC compressor was shot. Honda wants $800 for a new compressor but I order a brand new Chicom unit for $199 from Amazom. Perfect fit.
I also bought two new hardlines from Majestic Honda in Providence Rhode Island (best dealer prices that I could find). They were almost 40% less than my local Honda dealer. While I had the system apart, I tried to shoot compressed air through the condenser to see if it was blocked...and it was. Note that this is the first time that I ever worked on an AC system and used the shop manual and Internet as a guide to what I should do.
I just laughed when Honda told me their price for a condenser and bought a brand new Chicom unit of the 'net for about half the price. It came with a new drier unit installed and just needed ~ 2 ounces of PAG oil to get it ready for installation. Note that if you have a Japan-manufactured car, you can buy a knock off condenser. If your VIN doe NOT beginwith "J", then your car was made in Great Britain and you are then screwed because that is a different design and the replacement condenser can only be ordered from the factory. Understand that this work took me almost two weeks of my time just to figure out everthing that was wrong with my car..
I assembled the AC system in the reverse order of disassembly and it continued to take me a long time. Reasons include the plastic pop out pins that hold the front fascia together were mostly breaking like crazy so I used a lot of wire ties hidden wherever possible as a substitute. But it's much more robust now. The bottom pins were so bad that I retained the lower fascia much more solidly by using three self tapping screws and fender washers to distribute the load. The front frame member runs right above the lower part of the front bumper so its easy to grab good metal for self tapping screws.
The final fix was to add a 10" pusher fan to the front of the condenser so that it will always have very good airflow. That turns out to be overengineered (which I do all the time) and I could have easily stepped down to an 8" fan and saved a few bucks. More is better in this case but the 10" fan sounds like an F16 spooling up for take off. I'll refine that in the early fall.
I bought a Chicom AC vacuum pump from Harbor Freight and pumped the system for 90 minutes. It held a vacuum and had to be as dry as a bone. I added one 12 oz. can of R134a and the compressor electric clutch came on at just about a half can, which is a very good sign. One can provides about 320 grams of R134a and the shop manual (this is from memory) gives a system capacity range of about 340-520 grams so I'm at the bottom end. I prefer that but wil bring it up to specs when I'm totally confident it all works as designed; no need to over pressure at any point. I clearly understand that the most important criterion is pressure, not weight of coolant.
My bottom line cost is ~$600 (without the cost of the vacuum pump) plus a LOT of my time. The diagnosis appears to be that the condenser failed over time (perhaps due to inadequate cooling) and then took the compressor with it. It was a BEAR to get to the compressor and I'm sure the Honda dealer knows all the shortcuts; I did the brute force approach to just remove everything that got in the way. I have a lift and that was of no added value for this job; it's just tough all around. So far, so good >knock on wood<.
If anyone wants my help to do this themselves, I live in the Trenton New Jersey area and just send me mail at kid_again@hotmail.com and we can chat. I LOVE to see THE MAN lose money wherver possible.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread before I started my project.
Oh, BTW, there are class action suits against a number of manufacturers for AC system failures so this is NOT unique to Honda nor to CR-Vs. I forgot to mention that I also cut holes in the underbody cladding to ensure the air is caught and forced right onto the AC compressor which is located on the bottom of the engine, left front as you look at the car from the front. For those purists who say that this will cause the serpentine belt to slip if water gets up there, I humbly suggest that they refer to a 40 year old practice of having all sorts of belts, including serps, being located directly in the line of the air flow under the car with absolutely no impact on performance/longevity.
I hope this LONG response helps.
I think I still have a picture of the torn down front end if anyone wants a good laugh.
Were the air holes to allow cooling air on the compressor? I didn't know that was advantageous. Cool.
I also didn't know that as the condenser becomes plugged (altho not sure what plugged it on the inside, i presume compressor debris when it imploded) it puts more strain on the compressor, but makes sense. So bugs and bent fins and obstructions, all would add to less efficiency from the condenser, thereby putting more strain on compressor.
Way to go to get to the bottom of it and solve the fix yourself. :thumbup:
Any eight or nine year old car is going to have problems, yes?
The hole that I cut out for direct air access to the compressor is located on the black bottom fascia that gets in your way each time you change your oil.
If you are standing at the front of the car and facing it, the compressor is located on the left hand side, at the very bottom of the engine. Once you crawl underneath the car, you will see that the fascia steps down a few inches, going front to back. I cut the black plastic right in front of the compressor with a utility knife; the plastic is soft and almost too easy to cut so be careful. You're not near any hoses or electrical wires. I'll see if I can get you some pictures. I think that if cut anywhere near the AC compressor, you'll get enough airflow to make a big difference in compressor temp.
Good question about the the crud that blocked the condenser. My mechanic said that he's only ever had one Honda have a bad evaporater. Here's what I know. There were no metal parts in the lines so the compressor didn't detonate (which DOES happen). The PAG oil was slightly yellow; it can turn black on really bad cases.
Since I realized the condenser was clogged, I figured what the heck, I hit it with 160psi right from the compressor. Absolutley nothing happened which suggests to me that the occlusion is solid, not some schmutz that broke free somewhere and lodged in the condenser. My story and I'm sticking to it is that the condenser started to corrode on the inside, possibly accelerated by lack of adequate air flow and once that got bad enough, it caused the compressor to fail.
Being in the tool business for almost 20 years, Chicom was a brand I had never heard of so I "googled" it and found nothing?
Coming through Amazon at that price I'm guessing it is Chinese made and maybe a "universal" unit that fits other cars too?
Same brand name for the vacuum pump and coming from Harbor Freight at that price it has to be Chinese made.
For a piece of equipment that will be seldom used, the Chinese stuff can get the job done.
I disagree with you about the cooling part. a lot of cars have front licence plates that partically block air flow to the condensors and I just don't see heat being a contributing factor but I guess I could be wrong.
The delaerships fear comebacks and unhappy customers so thier approach is to not take any chances of contamination so they just replace EVERYTHING.
Yes, a failed A/C compressor ***can*** shoot off metal particles that ***can*** cause problems if not caught and it isn't really possible to flush everything out.
Dealerships just don't want to take the chance.
You took on a tough job and it sounds like your results paid off.
Your offer to help others was a great gesture on your part.
But, again, I suppose I could be wrong?
If you use your defrost in the winter you are "using" your A/C compressor too.
Again, not a "defect" after all of those years and miles. Just one of those things that happens.
If your next vehicle won't be a Honda I hope you can find another make that never breaks!
My 2003 CR-V (105,000 miles) air conditioning failed last week during a 100-degree heatwave in Virginia. I haven't had it to a shop yet, but based on the symptoms and descriptions here, I assume the compressor imploded.
I have spoken to service departments at five area Honda dealers, and I have gotten five fixes with a range of prices:
Dealer 1–usually replaces only the compressor and the filter in the receiver/dryer because "the filter catches all the contaminants". Estimate of $1,500.
Dealer 2–replaces the entire system because all components are contaminated. Estimate of $3,700.
Dealer 3–replaces everything but the evaporator in the passenger side. Estimate of $2,500.
Dealer 4–replaces everything including the evaporator, but not the hoses. Estimate $2,200.
Dealer 5–replaces the entire system. Estimate of $3800.
All of these dealers acknowledge this is a common repair, yet they don't agree on the proper repair, despite Honda's own Service Bulletin guidelines. And the two that replace the entire system seem to be significantly overcharging for the repair. The MSRP from Honda for all of the parts in the A/C system including Service Kit C, Clutch Set and Coil Set is about $2,000. Shopping online, I found I can purchase those same components from a Honda dealer for about $1400. That means that in addition to charging a sizeable markup on the parts, they are charging $1,700-1,800 for labor and refrigerant. The Service Bulletin calls for 5.8 hours repair time. One shop told me it's actually a 10-hour job, while another shop said the repair can be done in one day.
I have called and written to American Honda, and have been told that they cannot defray any costs because of the vehicle mileage. Yet I have seen posts here where they have offered assistance to owners with vehicles as high as 116,000 miles.
There seems to be no rhyme or reason to this problem other than Honda has a defect issue with the CR-V A/C system, refuses to publicly acknowledge it and is screwing its long-time customers and long-term reputation.
I really don't know what to do next.
A couple of points. Sorry for the confusion on the tool name but you figured it out...Chinese Communist. Sorry!
As far as the paranoia about air flow through the front, I take my experience from 65-67 Chevy Corvettes with the big block (BB) engines, 396 or 427 cubic inch. When the first Vette BB-engined cars came off the line Chevy got a LOT of complaints about the cars overheating even though they beefed up the radiators. The factory applied a number of fixes and one of them was a new front license plate holder that moved the plate out from the front center (even though it was in low in the air stream) to 'way over on the driver's side. That and extra foam insulation to make sure all of the air pulled in from the fan went through the radiator and the attached shroud solved the BB overheating problems for that model run.
Unfortunately, the General launced a new body for '68 and kep the same frame/drive train which caused the problem to reapper again. They solved those problems during the first year but I've learned the hard way that you need to get ALL of the air ALL of the time over ALL of the coolers to ensure that you have no problems with overheating.
As I noted earlier, I did a belt-and-suspenders fix by adding that 10" pusher fan and with that puppy on, in 90* weather, I can comfortable put my hand on the condenser wheras the it was a bit too hot with just the factory setup. I'm sure it will be fine without the pusher because the engineers factored all of this in their original design. They just didn't count on the effect of the ravages of time.
I hope this helps.
I think much of the reason for all of the unhappiness is the COST of fixing it.
I know I'm a dinosaur but back when I ran a shop, we actually fixed things. We overhauled compressors and freon didn't cost an arm and a leg like it does today.
We actually fixed some things for free if you can believe that and we would try to save our customers money if it was an older car or money was tight.
In the example someone stated above, one dealer wanted 1500.00 to fix it and seemed to have no fears that anything more would be necessary.
The other places wanted to replace the entire system just "in case".
The trouble is, some people are quick to blame problems on the shop that tried to save them money. They do the 1500.00 repair and sure enough, a loose piece of metal wrecks something and back comes an unhappy customer demanding the shop fix it for free. And they do. From that point forward, having learned an expensive and bitter lesson, they take a hard stance and refuse to do the job unless they fix everything!
Shop labor is 100.00 per hour and more and genuine replacement parts are very expensive. I was in California last month and one of the xenon headlights in my buddy's Mercedes burnt out. we pulled into the Mercedes dealer and waited two hours and he paid 320.00 parts and labor! for a lousy headlight!
Labor was 160.00/hr!
I don't blame people for being unhappy but things do break given enough time and miles.
And, I remember those Corvettes. Especially if they had A/C they would overheat in traffic situations.
Are you manually turning off the compressor?
Take a look at the post following the instructions you linked:
"One thing I might add.. after disabling the function, the A/C will still come on, each time you turn it to the defrost setting.. The difference will be: you can turn the A/C off by pushing the A/C button. Something you couldn't do before. "
Some of the late year 2001 models picked up the problem. My father in law had his compressor go out about 3 years ago - he has a 2001.
The problem with the CR-V A/C is that it has a history of failing prematurely, relative not only to other Honda vehicles, but to other brands as well. And that is what is so maddening about this repair expense.