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Facel-Vega is an odd car, too, so it would be appropriate. They were made 1954-64, first using Chrysler V-8s in very plush, custom-made bodies. In the late 50s I believe it was, they came out with a smaller model, the Facellia, with their own dohc engine that was so miserably bad it really sunk the company. They tried to substitute a Volvo B18 engine, which is a sturdy, simple but noisy little powerplant--too late, though...they went belly up in 1964.
I've driven a couple of the V-8 Facels...they are definitely 50s in steering and brakes...more like American cars than European. They have a very small following today, but are collected by a few diehard Franco-philes. They typically are seen in pretty bad shape, since body parts are nearly impossible to find and must be made, but a decent one can sell in the $25K range.
Boy, that was one weird movie.
http://www.facel.com/himain.htm
Maybe even more than you ever wanted to know about them.......
I will say, though, that I think for a car to achieve a real "classic" status, it *does* have to be outstanding in some way, and here's where I think cars like the Facel, these "oddities", don't ever really get much beyond 'cult car' status. By cult car, I mean that there are more worshippers than people who'd actually pay anything for them. But some graet cars, the minute a really great example turns up, there are more buyers than you can count.
That's a good comment ont the Facel...combines the worst traits of American and European cars...there was a perverse sort of genius to be able to do that!
I tend to gravitate toward underappreciated things. In some possible hypotherical scenarios this could pay off, like if something catches on right after I get one. Generally though, this tendency has me looking at cars that nobody in their right mind would put money into.
I'd like to drive a lot of the old bombers. I even think it would be great to own a Facel Vega that was first owned by some 3rd-rate movie star during his meteoric climb to the top and sold during his meteoric decline 2 yrs later. This after all was a company that somehow managed to convince princes and kings to buy them. Many of them must have been owned by such people, or by princes of exiled former royal families. They gotta at least have good leather and good chrome.
You could probably get the funky electrical, cooling, etc problems worked out, and the Chrysler drivetrain must surely be fixable or replaceable.
As for owning a Facel, I think one first would have to truly comprehend how difficult a car this would be to keep in running condition...the engine is the least of the problems, but the cooling, brakes steering, body integrity, electrical...these things could drive you nuts, each and every day, in a special, special way.
Your passion would have to be so strong as to overpower reason, and, for me, at least, it is difficult to comprehend that level of passion for that type of car...but then, there are people who really like Wayne Newton, so what do I know for certain....
The other hybrid I remember had a small block Chevy in it, and had more of a squarish, 2dr sedan bodystyle. I can't even remember the name, but the year was 1965. I remember the car as being very attractive. I want to say Cheetah, but I think that was the name of another hybrid. Anyone know?
The Apollo was a really lovely car, but choosing the Buick engine was regrettable, as it was a troublesome unit (still giving trouble today in the Range Rover--the gift that keeps on giving).
The Apollo GT was seen in the movie The Love Bug.
I met Milt Brown a few years ago...still lives in Berkeley, I think, and still designing things.
Cheetah--1963--amazing car built by Bill Thomas, famous California Chevy tuner...he wanted a car to match the Cobra, and he did that and better, with the Cheetah putting up much better performance numbers
than the Cobra....400 hp and 6.1 liters...I'm reading here that the engine was set so far back in the frame (for weight distribution), that the transmission is connected to the differential only by a u-joint, not a prop shaft!
16 of these gull-wing coupes were built, but Chevy did not wish to support homologation by helping Thomas build the required 100 of them to qualify them for racing. So they never got to race the Cobras, which was too bad, they probably would have succeeded in whittling down the Cobra legend a substantial number of notches.
I'm no professional mechanic, but have been lucky enough to work beside one in his home garage. One important lesson I learned along the way; they all look the same from underneath when they're puking oil and rust in your face!
I appreciate your comments and always welcome diverse points of view. I'm happy just to have a free and open forum to do so.
Carnut4: I vaguely remember the Cheetah too. We're going to have to find a picture of one of those!
I wonder if there's a club for bizzaro Italian hybrids? I wonder if there's a club for cars that nobody in his right mind wants?
Somebody could write a book about that odd, brief period in history where Chevy, Ford and Chrysler all had, or were had by, Italian mistresses; when Pininfarina toyed with fins, even on Ferraris, and produced designs for Nash, Cadillac and maybe others.
If you want to do it Shift, I promise I won't sue you later for using the idea. All i ask is a small editorial credit and a coach-class ticket to Torino to gather info.
That and Iso are the only Chevy-block Italian hybrids I can think of right off....unless you're thinking of a Devin SS, which was an Italian design of sorts with Chevy power, but really American-made all the way...great car, too, very successful in sports car racing in America.
dranoel
GRANT---there were actually three different Grants...one a very early car that isn't the one you're thinking of, then the Grant Motor Company of Detroit, michigan, and they made cars from 1913 to 1922 in both Detroit and Cleveland. There was also the Grant Six out of Cleveland (no relation) built in 1912-13...Grant was a good little car, say the historians, but never made more than 3-4,000 cars a year, and died in the post World War I depression of the early 1920s (not the Great Depression of 1929, which killed off lots more car companies).
INDIANA--this company has a convoluted history from 1911-1939, and was absorbed by the White Truck Company.
Most of those funny little cars from the 50s just didn't last because a) they were built of very rustable steel and b)compared to their sexy counterparts, like MGs and Jaguars and the like, no one thought them worth preserving. Even today there is not a great deal of collector interest, but occasionally you'll see someone preserving a Hillman or a Simca out of love...certainly not for profit. The general rule of thumb is that some car that was not particularly popular then will not be popular now.
The only exceptions would be the little Messerschmidts and the 2CVs...the "bubble car" and micro-car craze is pretty strong right now, and you can get decent money for a restored mini-car...but these two cars were always well-thought of and loved, even when they were new--so that probably explains their popularity and preservation today.
I come from a car and motorcycle-crazed family...my dad worked for Packard...we've all had hundreds of cars among us at one time or another. I have a nephew who likes '59 Cadillacs, which mortifies me, but hey, to each his own...he does a good job restoring them.
Now, of course, you can tuck a 4-speed automatic transmission under your arm...well, almost.
Ford almost produced a little German-designed Ford car here in the US in the late 40s, called a Cardinal, but once they realized Americans wanted huge cars in vast numbers and that fuel economy was not important, they abandoned this car to obscurity.
It took foreign manufacturers a long time to figure out how to make a car that was actually suited to US driving conditions. The first Japanese cars to come here in the 1950s were disasterous on US roads....ditto Simcas and Heralds and the like...they didn't have the power, stamina and strength to hang in on the freeways. It was really BMW, with the 1602 and 2002 that figured out how to please Americans, in the late 1960s.
How about a Gogomobile? Little German? car made late 50's or so ? Vauxhall Victor ? Siata Spring ? Based on a Fiat 600 platform I believe with coachwork that looked like a MG TD on steroids! My brother in law has one in his barn up in Ohio. Worth restoring Shiftright? I really long for those days when you could, in 1954, get a MG TF 1500 out the door for about $2100.00. If we had only known. But, who had $2100.00 just out of highschool!
So what is that, you are probably asking? It is a hatchback/GT version of the TR-4.(From the TTR:) "Very few Doves were built - reportedly between 55 and 100; approximately 33 still exist. They were given full warranty and the official designation of GTR-4 by Triumph, a reflection on the quality work of the Sussex coachbuilding firm Thomas Harrington which re-bodied TR-4s for then Wimbledon Triumph dealer L.F. Dove - from which the Dove derived its name. The Dove provided a 2+2 option for Triumph enthusiasts with small families, albeit with premia of 30% in price and 400 pounds in weight. It pre-dated the MBG GT by two years."
to look at a fine example at this very rare auto: http://freeweb.pdq.net/txtr/carmonth.html
In theory, this seems like the ideal place for the shift; easy to reach and operate. I never drove one but as a passenger it appeared that shifting gears was rather like trying to open a balky umbrella......
Were they all awkward to shift or was that unique to the car I rode in?
Mike
I saw a wonderful Alfa spyder today, parked on a shady side street. 1600 Veloce. Black lacquer. Looked very much like original paint except on the hood. Very clean bodywork. If the rocker panels had any rust it was very well-hidden.
The interior was over-restored, unfortunately: red vinyl of pretty much the right type, but the color seemed off - a little too pinkish, and it was shiny, the way some people go nuts with the Armorall. It might even have been leather, but not *nice* leather; rather, the kind that's easily mistaken for vinyl. Very nice dash, instruments and wheel though.
The top was off and I was impressed to see how expansive the cockpit was. A Miata, for example, is much tighter.
I'd forgotten how nice this machine looks.
But to the more obscure issues----
I know of a whole garageful of Berkeleys in, of all places...Berkeley (California, that is).The later B90 models (3 cylinder, 492cc) was pretty quick, too, but really the Sprite killed it, because the A-H offered a much more civilized car with about the same performance...and not made of plastic, either. The earlier Berkeleys used either Anzani or Excelsior engines, again with air-cooling and chain drive (two-stroke, by the way)....last models (B 105) used the Royal Enfield 692cc "Constellation" parallel twin four stroke engine...this car was definitely faster than the Sprite, but again, kind of primitive for its time.. Fun and interesting car.
Are they worth restoring? No, not in dollar terms, but I find them worthy of preservation just because they were interesting, competent enough and certainly fun to drive...more than you can say for a Caravelle!
Oh, the Goggomobile...made by Glas of Germany...they started with a two stroke engine of a mighty 250 cc, then four-strokes of 600 and 700 cc. There was this guy also named Bill Buckle, who built lots of different cars on Goggomoile chassis, including an attractive little sports car called the Dart.
Again, the Sprite and the Mini killed off all these weird little fun cars.
I heard of a guy who raced some sort of Goggomobile in SCCA...the article said acceleration was "kind of leisurely and it would be best to bring a magazine along to read while driving".