-September 2024 Special Lease Deals-
2024 Chevy Blazer EV lease from Bayway Auto Group Click here
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee lease from Mark Dodge Click here
2025 Ram 1500 Factory Order Discounts from Mark Dodge Click here
2024 Chevy Blazer EV lease from Bayway Auto Group Click here
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee lease from Mark Dodge Click here
2025 Ram 1500 Factory Order Discounts from Mark Dodge Click here
Comments
you would have to find a 'safe' place to test and the car is not built to withstand anything that might go wrong at that speed. probably very few cars are.
Maybe if it could be done remotely, no human driver.
60 mph does not stress the system enough to figure out what would happen at double that speed.
There is some Schadenfreude going on (Toyotafreude?).
And it's sort of like the forums; lots of the discussions are populated by people searching for a solution to their car problem. It's hard to get the average Josephine to log in and talk about her car that's running normally.
My first and last Toyota...BIG mistake I made.
And you?
I would be VERY worried Toyota fans. This is not going away quickly.
I dunno, I got D's in German. :P
Spitzerfreude tried to gain some traction when Elliot got hammered but it doesn't have the cachet of a gate.
But ToyotaGate doesn't have much of a ring to it either. They could just say Mission Accomplished and call it a day.
no amount of engineering can relieve people of their fears, especially if such fears are unfounded or unrealistic.
there is risk in anything, including nothing. the only way for anyone to NOT take risk is to NOT live.
because of their interest in Government Motors and UAW.
Oh how I wish Toyota would just announce something really good. For example - for all the owners that may have/could have a problem. That would give them full control of recall.
They are #1, had good reliability ratings until several rating agencies just pulled recommendations, etc. It appears, multiple rental car agencies won't even rent Toyotas due safety risk liability issues etc per new articles.
I have a RAV4 and of course I am pulling for Toyota. But I attempt to be objective, research, try to educate myself, etc. I say Toyota please get a lid on all of this.
Is that also true in the GM world and forum?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Will it happen in a system with a mechanical link to the transmission? wwest implied the toyota products are connected by wire to the transmission.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's what I see coming. Too many sources are chiming in with my original thinking that it's computer related for it not to happen. And the scientific method indicates that some of the reported cases fit with a floor mat improperly used or not fitting. Some cases reported fit with a sticking pedal, relucatant to return to idle. But many cases don't fit either.
And then there's the question that a few have reported the brakes didn't work, some in relation to the full or near full throttle acceleration, but at least one reported the brakes just didn't work on a Rav-4 IIRC the model correctly. Odd things happening to braking could also be computer-related as in ABS and stability control systems.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
consider this. computers have a finite design. there has to be 'room' in it to add the additional 'brake overrides the throttle' logic.
if not, something else has to be removed or you need a new computer.
another, and probably larger issue that needs to be considered, is all the engine/transmission/emissions/other tied in systems, that need to accept this 'brake overrides throttle' addition without any detrimental effects to how they were designed to operate.
Yeah - I get 29mph freeway driving.
Uh, ok. Now back to Toyota...and when an automaker has a problem with their vehicles, they have a responsibility.
- First, it was complete denial of any responsibility.
- Second, came the reason of it was the driver's fault.
- Third, came the famous floor mats.
- Fourth, the famous pedals (even the pedals were blamed when they were not even involved.
- Fifth and hopefully finally will be the electronic throttle systems which would explain the ongoing problem now for over 5 years.
Come Toyota, how humiliating you want this to get before enough is enough?
And here I thought the floor mat fix was suppose to end this fiasco. :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
I am placing my bets on yet for another massive Toyota recall by next week:
Getting Toyota to recall took "enormous effort"
And here I thought the official word was by many on here that Toyota issued the recall solely in the interest of the consumer because they care so much about their customers???? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
Yes, the engine/transaxle controlling ECU(***1) might not be paying attention to the shifter position switches and/or does not issue the appropriate command set to the transaxle itself.
But, also...
There may be so much torque applied(***2) to the gear teeth of the transaxle's drum type clutch discs that they do not return to the "slack", de-clutched, position even thought the hydraulic pressure has been removed.
***1.) ECU, Electronic Control Unit, most commonly a microprocessor or two, or three, or even four.
***2.) The engine is ROARING with WOT, doing its damndest to RACE those front wheels and at the same time the brakes are being applied as strenuously as the driver can muster. Lots of PRESSURE on those clutch disc gear teeth to keep them in place, not un-coupled.
Until there is a proven problem, and proven to be Toyota's responsibility, I don't see that our goverment could force anything. Our government asked Toyota to with hold the products from the market and as I see it Toyota "voluntarily" agreed.
Voluntarily???? Well, we now learn that was definitely not the case. Getting Toyota to recall took "enormous effort"
Toyota taking all you mentioned into consideration. My son does development/engineering auto software. Once developed cost for Toyota would be fairly low since they own the computer programs. Toyota does not have to buy each program. Buying these programs from the corporate business owner of programs + then the increased cost dealer installing charges + cost flashing is where additional costs are passed onto consumer. Overhead costs to corporate business owner quite low for each year - say 2010.
Since I have vehicle that is not one of recall models I will be asking if brake override system is available.
To everyone - yes - I am cautious. Smile - RN.
Did you have your foot down on full throttle accelerating or had you let off before you put the car in neutral? That makes a big difference. To simulate WOT you would have to shift while the engine is racing.
Absolutely not. Toyota has never found an incident of unintended acceleration caused by the vehicle’s computer/electronic control unit.
Boy is that statement going to come back to haunt them. :sick:
Which would have clearly not been required had the US laws been applicable.
In the end the US arm-twisting lead to Toyota's actions, voluntary actions.
So Toyota was forced, prematurely, into announcing a FIX, carpet mats, that they undoubtedly knew was not correct. Now, under, with, additional US government pressure, they have announced yet another "fix" that more likely than not isn't the final answer.
On the other hand absent US pressure the fix, FINAL fix, would have been incorporated, SILENTLY incorporated, into future designs and no one would really be the wiser.
Seems it is against law to sell autos with known or declared defect.. Seems Toyota had to stop selling recall models. Repair not available at that time.
Seems like a Big Whoops here.
Have not found why this legal issue overlooked???
Links to Safety Site. They have other information as well regarding this UA. Have seen news media use comments from them all the time. . .
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/27/so-who-called-toyota/
http://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-sudden-unintended-acceleration/
My test did not involve accelerator to floor - other foot on brake - shift to neutral. Yes, not brave enough to do this.
My test is faulty. Feel free to fire away. But did find out would shift neutral at 60. My hope is all falls into place if I have such an emergency.
MNF
Good luck with your Camry.
MNF
Good luck to you.
Other than the incentives, the other automakers seem to be playing it close to the vest.
Ford can't say much because they have the same problem with their Transit Connects they sell in China.
GM can't say much because the Vibe is on the same recall list as the Toyotas. Not to mention being preoccupied with Cobalt steering issues.
Hyundai better be paying attention to all the Sante Fe reports of similar problems.
Honda has non-US Fits catching fire because of a faulty switch.
And there's already been a bit of a backlash over the conquest incentives. (AutoObserver)
If this pedal thing really winds up being stray electronics or something like that, it could cost all the automakers big bucks to fix their systems.
Is her reaction a good learning lesson for all of us? Maybe help us to understand how frightened people must have been when they had UA???
The issue is still what about the Toyotas that did not have a stuck throttle and were SUA electronically? We have one taken to a dealer. The Toyota dealer replaced several components. Do we know which was the culprit? Did Lentz address that smoking gun? That should be the thrust of the NHTSA investigation. Toyota needs to tell the buyers what was stuck wide open with that vehicle. And WHY? Just replacing it does not fix the problem. It only sends the guy down the road with a new component that could fail in the same way. I wonder if Toyota even understands the impact this can have on their sales? Audi learned a lesson and was found innocent. Such is life.
Ford Stops Some China Vehicle Production (CBS)
The NHTSA will probably be hammered as hard as Toyota during the congressional hearings.
Ford can't say much because they have the same problem with their Transit Connects they sell in China.
GM can't say much because the Vibe is on the same recall list as the Toyotas. Not to mention being preoccupied with Cobalt steering issues.
Hyundai better be paying attention to all the Sante Fe reports of similar problems.
Honda has non-US Fits catching fire because of a faulty switch.
And there's already been a bit of a backlash over the conquest incentives. (AutoObserver)
If this pedal thing really winds up being stray electronics or something like that, it could cost all the automakers big bucks to fix their systems.
Yeah, but there is a difference here with Toyota as they have been in denial on this issue for 5 years. And we are now learning they did everything thing possible to try and prevent the latest recall from occurring. Shame on Toyota!
plus a few hundred less-reliable miles on 1980s rabbits!
I've noticed that many media outlets use VW as the comparison/demo for brake-override.
Obviously the 90hp and 100hp VW diesels can never have a problem with runaway acceleration. (?!)
More seriously, I can see the safety advocates making a case for limiting hp of cars in USA due to the risk of catastrophic Toyota-like bugs. Yes They Can.
TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. has been hit by over 100 complaints in the U.S. and Japan about brake problems with the popular Prius hybrid, the latest in a spate of quality troubles for the automaker as it grapples with massive global recalls.
The Japanese company's sales are being battered in the U.S. -- Toyota's biggest market -- after recalls of top-selling models to fix a gas pedal that can stick in the depressed position.
The new Prius gas-electric hybrid, which went on sale in Japan and the U.S. in May 2009, is not part of the recalls that extend to Europe and China, covering nearly 4.5 million vehicles.
The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 100 complaints involving the brakes of the Prius new model. Two involved crashes resulting in injuries.
Japan's transport ministry said Wednesday it has also received 14 complaints since July last year about brake problems with Toyota's new Prius hybrid.
The 14 complaints included an accident in July 2009, in which a Prius crashed head on into another car at an intersection. Transport ministry official Masaya Ota said two people were slightly injured in the accident.
"The Prius driver in the accident told police that a brake did not work," Ota said. "Other Prius drivers also complained brakes were not so sharp." The complaints in Japan involve the new Prius model, and the vehicles were all made in Japan, he said.
you rarely produce a mcu with just enough flash for your code. those things are regularly produced so that the flash come in standard size, 32k, 256k, etc. even if the code takes less space than that.
plus, a brake override, assuming the sensors are already there, will take a few bytes to implement. ask your son about it.
the difficult part is to test the code under all possible conditions so that it doesn't malfunction.
that will take some serious time / efforts / resources.
Anyone think that this recall is having a negative impact across all of Toyota and Lexus or why else would those non-recalled models be impacted? :confuse:
Oh absolutely. I'd even go as far as saying Toyota anything, affected / unaffected models, new or used, will take a hit. If I were car shopping, Toyota would not be anywhere near the top, not so much because of safety worries, but because of resale issues in the short term. Demand for anything Toyota is down.
Question for those in the biz, have you seen auction prices for Toyotas in general taking a hit?