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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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http://autoweek.com/cat_print.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=- carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=05512497&47610159- 1
Brawn or brains, choose one or loose both.
Well if that's the standard, then I can't find a full size car on the market today;)
I was thinking maybe this platform could the basis for an updated Lincoln Continental sedan?
It would simply need a stretch and a v8 to set it apart, as the 1988 model more or less did with the Taurus/Sable platform.
a new continental with suicide doors and a grand design would be slick.
This is one option being tossed around.... The upcoming trend in vehicles from Ford will be availability of AWD, therefore this platform can also sustain that. As well as the Lincoln version of the Futura sedan, will also be AWD.
As for Mercury and Mazda, they sould sell them in combined Ford - Lincoln - Mercury - Mazda dealers as alternate styles, and advertise that Ford gives buyers a choice of styles (the Ford look, the Mercury look, or the Mazda look).
http://www.globalauto.net/clipsheet.cfm?article_id=1677&today- =02/16/04&mode=display&brand_id=3
- Bret
the marauder should be given a more luxurious interior, a power boost, a freshened exterior--including a GT sportwagon variant--and be positioned as an american muscle classic to compete with the dodge magnum.
Actually the Volvo transmission are just "up to par" for what they are able to handle. There's many Ford designed transmissions which are much stronger overall.
The next S80 will be using a Yamaha massaged(just the heads and a few other items) Jag 4.0-4.2L engine, and that itself will require a different transmission to handle it. And that itself is able to fit within the P2 platform. With a bit of minimal redesigning, some V8's can enter the engine bays of the P2 platform. The only difficult factor would be Ford's modular V8's which are a bit tall to fit in that platform without major modifications.
I bought my 2002 Mountaineer because it was $1,200 LESS than an identically equipped Explorer Limited (V8, every option except 4WD, sunroof, and running boards).
Thus, my suggestion that instead of trying to maintain a separate brand, Ford simply offer buyers a choice of different looks.
I doubt you will see Mercury going anywhere.
Besides, Lincoln dealers depend on Mercury to help pay the bills.
To get this back on topic, other than HID lights and LED tail lights and a waterfall grille, does the Montego have anything to recommend it over the Five Hundred? I know the interior is two-toned.
Example of the Monterey. It offers an item seen in the Lincolns (warm/cooled seats) YET, in a Ford derived product. And the case in point with the Montego.
There are actually customer's who want a Ford product, but do not wish to see the same vehicle at every corner like the Ford and wish to set itself a bit apart for the crowd. And for that, there's Mercury.
- Bret
BUT, maybe they could do it better this time. For now though that's a great dream and idea, we're gonna get tarted up Fords with some Lincoln cues and options on the Mercurys, and frankly, that works for me too. My wife is solidly happy in the Mercury stable these days. I tried to upgrade her to Lincoln, and she'll have none of it. She says Mercury makes just the right set of clothes for her. Whatever that means.....
If we were to take the Mondeo for example, it would sell around $28-32K once the exchange rate is calculated. And in the end, not many buyer's would accept that price point for Mercury, let along, a vehicle of those dimensions. Personally, I believe if the Passat can pull it off, why not the Mondeo. But that's another senario.
Mercury won't be offering any unique vehicles (Cougar for example) just yet. When they start selling, and increasing their sales, and actually profitting, don't be surprised to see one vehicle unique to the Mercury line. As an example, Cougar.
It wasn't long ago that mercury was pumping out more units in sales than Volvo does in a year. Just requires time before it reached that point for Mercury to start receiving independent vehicles. Right now there's a cash crunch and this is the best (and safe) route Ford can take.
It is so easy for people in their high horses to make bold statements, but they hve no idea about car dealer francise laws and other myriad costs.
GM has paid $1B to close Olds simply to please Wall Street. Think of what they could have done with that money with improved cars?
And to the critics who moan that the 500 "looks like a 5 year old Audi". Look at an Audi showroom and see all the "5 year old Audis" still for sale.
http://x.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2003/02/12/WKA2003021245079_PV.JPG
Who's to say a manufactur owned dealer would do better? In other prodcuts, independant dealers exist also, it's called Free Enterprise.
Why don't you try getting laws changed? Bet you'd get tons of oppostion.
http://www.interconection.biz/carnews2982.asp
How is it "Free" enterprise when the manufacturers are prohibited from owning dealerships? I didn't say the manufactuers would be better, just that it seems unlikely they could be worse.
Well, no, not really. It takes much, much longer, and a lot more money to develop a whole new engine family than it does to come up with a new grille, tail lamps upholstery patterns and a bit of sheetmetal for the hood and front fenders of a Mercury branded car, How many different engine families do Ford's competitors have anyway? Do Nissan or Honda generally bring out brand new engines every time they introduce a new model? I think not; Nissan uses its 3.5 litre in about everything that will fit it, and its a fine engine. I also don't accept that there is anything "wrong" with the 3 litre Duratec that's slated for the Five-Hundred/Montego and Freestyle. Versions of that engine are used in a range of Ford, Lincoln, Mazda, and Jaguar cars. including the XJ6! Its power output is comparable to or better than most other motors in that size range, including Audi/VW, Mercedes, BMW, and Toyota. Yes, it's smaller that the 3.4 or 3.5 litres some competitors have, Ford gambled several years ago that there would be more demand for smaller V6s and designed an engine family for the 2.5 to 3 litre displacement range. They were only half right. Gas prices fell in real terms in the US. The real problem is that there is an absurd horsepower race, and the jaded boys and girls of the automotive press, and many of those hanging out at sites like this, seem to be having their mid life crises, and so are only moved by vehicles which can entertain them with sub 7 second 0-60 times. Get real, you can't drive like that, legally at any rate, on our roads, and if you DO need that kind of acceleration to get you out of trouble it's probably because you weren't paying proper attention to begin with! Anyway the weight to horsepower/torque ratio on the Five-Hundred/Montego and Freestyle is actually better than that of the base versions of many midsize cars and SUVs, including the Subaru Outback, VW Touareg, Volvo V60/70, Toyota Highlander, etc. and roughly comparable to Ford's Explorer,VW's Passat 4Motion, and others. They're not intended to be "enthusiasts" cars, or Autobahn cruising Q-Ships, they're supposed to be comfortable, versatile family transporters. The power increase can wait 18-24 months until the Duratec 35 is ready. It will take time to ramp up production on the new vehicles anyway.
I won't even attempt to get into an argument over your understanding of "Free Enterprise".
"Its power output is comparable to or better than most other motors in that size range, including Audi/VW, Mercedes, BMW, and Toyota."
The most powerful Duratech 3.0 used in a Ford/Mercury is the 201hp/207 lb ft. in the Taurus, correct? Thats deficient by 19hp and 13 foot pounds compared to Toyota's least powerful V6, so Id say the Duratec forms the bottom parameter of the range for midsize/large midsize mainstream vehicles. Additionally, the other mfrs producing engines in that range- nearly all of them are ULEV (Nissans 3.5L is LEV, though). Is the Duratec 30? I cant find anything indicating so in the 04 Sable brochure that I have.
I agree, theres nothing "wrong" with the Duratec 30 that will be introed with the Five Hundred. But no positive press, competitive advantages, or advertising opportunities are going to arise from being underpowered- at least not in this market segment.
~alpha
I'm not sure about the Taurus/Sable versions of the Duratec but the veersion slated for the Five Hundred et al betters the ULEV standard and mmeets California LEV II standards, the Mazda and Lincoln versions also meet or better the ULEV standard. The Ford/Mercury and Mazda version are also tuned for regular unleaded, as far as I can tell the Toyota engines are designed for premium unleaded. It's easier to squeeze a few extra hp and lb.ft. of torque out of premium. And I deliberately avoided a direct comparison with Honda's VTec engines, they are in another league from every other mass market engines when it coms to specific output, and it's all protected by lot of patents.
Simply put, it was an issue relating to the engine plant, and it's capacity, it wasn't possibly to build this engine before it's time. That would be Cleveland Engine plant....
Also, I cant speak for other mfrs, but the Toyota 3.0L and 3.3L V6 are ULEV-II as well.
I think this is a good enviormental selling point, why doesnt Ford publicize it more readily?
~alpha
Majority of Ford vehicles superceed such regulations, they just rather waste their typing/letter/words on other things on the brochure that might get someone's attention. I haven't met anyone personally that has stated "Oh it's a PZEV vehicle, I NEED to get one of those". So it's doesn't seem to be a priority, and rather save that for Hybrid and their FFV vehicles.
I have certainly argued that the Five Hundred will probably be quicker than expected, and no worse than many other common vehicles. However, that will only be true when the load consists of just the driver. The weak engine will really be noticable with a heavier load.
I agree with the engine plant capacity points, but still think a more focused Ford could have found a way to upgrade that engine plant sooner.
Good point ANT14 on the emissions - few beyond the "greenies" who drool over a Prius care about LEVII, PZEV and so forth. The pollution from new cars is nothing compared to the older vehicles, many of which emit more than an entire parking lot of new cars.
As for power, it can vary upon applications and exhaust system (on the vehicle). It'll match Nissan's VQ 3.5L. Where it can make anywhere from 230 (as in the Quest), upwards to 287HP (on the 350Z)... All depends how Ford wishes to tune it.
Here's a word on "future" items. Manufacturer's are wanting to sell you the vehicle, NOW... Not a few years from now. They want your money, to continue to circulate through their company, NOW. Many will not hint or tell you much of what's going to happen 4 years from now, because some people WILL wait till those 4 years.
Problem is, in those 4 years, your attention might go somewhere else, or another manufacturer, in turn...they lose you. And that's not a chance they are willing to take. Granted, the same vehicle you buy now, might be a bit more, in a few years. OR, while you waited those 2-4 years, you find out they retouched something else, or lost an option you really had your heart set on, or just did something visually UGLY to the vehicle. And here you were waiting all this time, for nothing. Wouldn't that be frustrating.
So these are some points to consider. Best advice I can give you pertaining to that is, drive it when it comes out. And if that ONE issue is the shortcoming, and you can wait awhile for it to be rectified, THEN you can reaccess the situation.
Exactly! The Greenies rarely will choose and F-150 over the Dodge because it's an ULEV......