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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • The Five Hundred replaces in a way replaces the Crown Victoria. Crown Victoria production will not end, rather, it will remain for the purpose of being sold to fleets. There is no large RWD vehicle in Ford present future. The Five Hundred platform will be used for Mercury and Lincoln crossovers and possibly a entry lux vehicle for Lincoln. Lincoln will also get a new Continental but on the LS platform. I heard that the Five Hundred will start at 25k and escalate north of 30k. I think Ford should watch themselves with the pricing since 300 is in the same price range and offers better performance and is equal or better in the luxury department.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Actually, Lincoln's entry level sedan and crossover (basically the same as the Aviator concept) will be based upon the upcoming Futura platform.

    Automotive News reported this week that Mercury will get a version of the Freestyle crossover, but Lincoln will not.

    Automotive News also reported last week that Lincoln's next flagship sedan will not be based upon the LS's D/EW 98 platform, but will either use the old Panther platform or the Five Hundred's platform. D/EW98 is too expensive and will probably not be used for anymore North American Ford products (as the Mustang uses a very simplified version of this platform).
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    Not for nothing, but the Five Hundred & Montego have a Volvo inspired platform.
    The Lincoln Aviator and the Ford Futura will use a modified derivative of the Mazda6 platform. In the caption under the photo in the following link it addresses the Aviator and I believe that is what I read.

    http://www.autonews.com/files/2004NAIAS/lincoln/aviator/anpages/a- viator1.htm

    oedipus1608 - If the Five Hundred starts at 25K and rides the wave to over 30K what does that say to its usually more costly cousin, the Montego
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Ford and Mercury prices will probably be the same when the vehicles are equipped the same way. Mercury may even be lower. When I bought my '02 Mountaineer, the sticker was actually $1,200 less than an identically equipped Explorer.
  • It does not make much sense to put the Continental on the 500 platform.
  • Can it really hold up to EIGHT golf bags!? I'd trade in my Dodge Stratus and be first in line to get one of those! And its even better with AWD. I really think Ford has nailed it with the 500
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Posts: 205
    Montego seems to have bigger wheels and bolder stance (may be because of smaller headlamps). 500 looks more like Avalon. I don't know how it looks in flesh, but I like Montego more. But anyway, I liked Sable more than Taurus too, because of more sophisticated look.

    I am hardly 500/Montego customer though, want smaller and sportier car, probably will wait for Futura clone.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Posts: 205
    Gauge cluster on Montego looks pretty upscale, wow, I love it !
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    Ford will have no problem with the Passat. Not that the Passat is a bad automobile, but the VW dealers stink. Never again for me. When they do add the diesel to the Passat it will be one of the best driving cars in the US, but after a few fights with the VW dealers you will not want another VW. Looks like Ford iw going in the right direction, but they will have to do their best to match up with Toyota.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Considering my friends KIA-quality experience with VW's, I can't say that's a product I would even recommend to my worst enemy. And it's reliability survey results prove that as well.

    I say some shopping the Passat might look at the 500, but that's not Ford's real goal. It's mainly Avalon they have set their sights off. Of course, with some of the reactions that the 500 has set off, I see quite a bit of "midsize" driver's, stepping up to this "huge midsize in denial", vehicle.

    Overall I'm more interested in seeing consumer's acceptance of the CVT and AWD models, that itself might shift a bit of the market on future products musts.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    "Huge mid size in denial" is right! Baby Boomers refuse to do anything that remotely reminds them that they are all over 35. Buying a car that is call "full size" would scare them to the hills.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's all those labels and perceptions that consumer's are in denial about. But also I blame consumer's for not getting what they want, for which is why such labels exsist. Many people I've dealt with personally, "settle" for certain cars.

    I have a relative who 'settled' for a minivan because he's expecting twins. He really wanted a sedan, but because "It's what's expected" he settled for it.

    Then another friend who settled for a Corolla because she needed reliable transportation. That vehicle was stolen in 3 weeks after she bought it and never found (probably in central america now).

    Another friend had to buy an Explorer(he wanted a Mazda6), because the wife insisted they needed something with space to haul (the ONCE in a year Xmas tree). I say he should have stuck her with the Explorer and taken her car.

    My parents always had RWD V8 sport coupes and just because they had a kid, they didn't change their liking to please me and kept buying what they liked (and still do).
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    THAT explains a lot!

    :)
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes it does :-)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I settled for a Mercury in 97, after driving Lincolns since 1990, and couldn't wait to get back to a Lincoln in 99. Does that explain anything?
  • skuuterskuuter Posts: 144
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the new Five Hundred is an Audi/VW Passat knock-off. What really kills me though, is that the interior looks a lot like the new Kia Amanti's!

    I also finally realized, with the Pacific Coast Thunderbird, why I don't like that car. They should have extended the hood to the bottom of the front fascia. It just looks cheap with that line across the front where the hood meets the grill section. Maybe that's why they are copying the better styles??
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    The new 500 looks far better than the overly rounded Audi cars. Once those who could not attend the Detroit auto show we are able to see and touch the 500, the superior size and seating position will further differentiate it from the competition.

    We don't know about the new 2005 Toyota Avalon, but I doubt that it will have the higher seating position, spacious interior, and large trunk of the 500.

    The interior of the 500 looks nothing like the Kia Amanti, so I don't understand that comment.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I too do not see the Amanti resemblence. I just looked up a few pics (but I can't link them from here) and it reminds me of the Avalon interior, since the upper dash area concaves backwards towards the bottom of the windshield such as the Amanti.

    Nor did the wood trim, extended through the center console pod like it does on the 500. Nor does it have a storage bin above that center console.

    As for the 500, It's interior looks very much like the Freestar's layout, but outside of the Ford range, definately closer to something you would see on an A4/A6... This isn't surprising since it's the same designer that designed it for Audi/VW.
  • The Ford team messed up what could have been an awesome intro. The Detroit show is the biggest and baddest of the bunch, right? And investors are looking at ford b/c its a dying brand on almost all fronts. Its backbone is under attack as the Nissan won over the F-150 in a comparo that was, unfortunately correct. I know the mags don't make the car but less weight, more power and more storage boxes do make a better truck. I still like the F-150 more, dam C/D to hell.
    If they introduced this new 500 (great name IMO) with a new engine (Duritec 35 I hear) then it could turn some heads. But a flagship sedan with 200 hp? Ford is telling the Japanese "we can't compete". The duritec will be out by 2k5, but by then, all the mags will say that the car, while quiet and nice and all that, could use more zip. I'll bet anyone on that.
    The new Engine is what can really save ford, like the VQ series saved Nissan. The soul of a car is power, you either have it, or you don’t.
    What's the point of the higher seating position with no power? So i get a better view of all the other cars passing me by?!
    They hit all the other spots right. The interior instantly makes GM fall to shame, and VW take notice, the trunk and overall size of the car seem to be very well thought out. The Mercury version is an absolute darling (interior), but @ almost 4000 lbs with AWD, this car is not going to kill the imports with 200hp and 200 torque. Does anyone here agree?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Read some of the prior posts, while 200HP doesn't sound like much, the transmission's gearing is what will help it.

    "Its backbone is under attack as the Nissan won over the F-150 in a comparo that was, unfortunately correct"

    One or 2 comparo's from consumer automotive magazines do not classify a vehicle as a benchmark. The F-150 has won a few Truck of the Year award as well.

    Understandably, I agree that Nissan's power injection will certainly draw attention, let's look at the overall sale leaders in different categories and you will see that HP doesn't dictate a clear winner.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    This is a large car that for marketing reasons will be portrayed as a mid-size. It is aimed at the 40's and up market, with a HUGE backseat and trunk, meant for turnpike cruising and local little "limo" type trips.

    It will be most interesting to see what its gas mileage is. That will be of far more importance to the target market than horsepower. This car is NOT aimed at hot rods. If you are one, and don't like the vehicle, oddly enough this is sign one that FORD may well have hit its target.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    With the new transmissions that the 500 will have, and assuming the weight does not go up too much over Taurus, the 3.0 Duratech will be more than adequate for most people driving this car. Given that a more powerful engine will be introduced in its second year, I don't think this is a big issue

    I have a Taurus Duratech and it performs more than adequately for all normal driving conditions. This size and style car is not meant for the "fast and furious" market.
  • zhelderzhelder Posts: 42
    Well, I'm probably going to get flamed, but what the heck. I was trying to wait another year to buy a new car, and I was really looking forward to the Five Hundred. However, after putting about $800 into my '96 Taurus recently, I decided that the time to buy was now. After two Taurus cars, I decided to buy a new Honda Accord. I have no regrets, and now after seeing the Five Hundred, I think I made the right decision.
          OK, the car looks nice, but I think it looked better in the artist renderings. I think the actual car looks like a cross between the first generation Taurus and a Passat. It's nice, but not stunning. The car looks roomy and the dashboard looks nice, but climate and audio controls look very dated to me. And why on earth isn't a navigation system an option? Foreign automakers have offered them for years, why are American manufacturers dragging their feet on this? I know it's not for everyone, but it should be an option. I saw a Ford car from Australia (I forget the name of it, but it's a midsize sedan) and that car's interior looks like something out of Star Wars, with a very cool navigation/graphical display. Why are the American cars so far behind on interior technology?
        The car seems to be underpowered as well. Duratec 30 (is that what they're calling it now?)was a kick-butt engine in '96, and I felt like I was flying in my '96 Taurus compared to my '87 Taurus. However, a lot of time has passed, and engines have come a long way. The engine in my Accord (240 HP) blows Duratec away. They should have developed a new engine with at least 250HP to be available at the car's launch, especially considering that the car will probably weigh a few hundred pounds more than the Taurus. The transmission may make some difference, but how much difference can it truly make?
         Finally, I think the car is going to be more expensive than I initially thought. I really was going to consider the AWD Five Hundred. But it looks like the AWD model is going to sell for about 30 or 31K, maybe more. I was figuring about $27K. For maybe about 32K you could get an AWD G35, and, honestly, that is probably a much better car.
       So, I sacrificed the AWD (love the G35, but I couldn't afford it) and bought a loaded Honda Accord, and it is truly stunning. I always thought my '96 Taurus was a good car, but the Honda is absolutely incredible. I know it's a lot newer, but I doubt that the '04 Taurus can comapre to the Accord. The Accord is put together so much better. I like Ford cars and I hope that they succeed, but I think they're going to have to do some serious catching up to compete with the foreign auto makers, and the Five Hundred looks like too little too late to me.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Well, I'm probably going to get flamed, but what the heck"

    Nahhhh, no need to get flamed on message boards, your just sharing your view as well as other's so sometimes discussing different points of you, might allow others as well as yourself to understand some questions. I play devils advocate and while I will agree with someone (seceretly), I'll offer a different perspective just for sake of debate.

    " And why on earth isn't a navigation system an option?"

    The possibility of a Niav system might be possible, since it's why there's that upper storage bin above the dash for a future option, no word yet on that officially from Ford though.

    "decided to buy a new Honda Accord. I have no regrets, and now after seeing the Five Hundred, I think I made the right decision."

    The 500 is not aimed at the Accord or Camry, the future Ford Futura or current Taurus is what the Accord competes with. The 500 is much larger, and it's targeting Avalon buyer's.

    " The engine in my Accord (240 HP) blows Duratec away."

    And the one in the Mustang will blow the Accord away...Point: If you want real power, you buy a real performance vehicle if thats the priority. Plus, the majority of midsize car sales such as the Accord, sell only a 20% ratio for V6 engines, compared to I4's.

    " They should have developed a new engine with at least 250HP to be available at the car's launch, especially considering that the car will probably weigh a few hundred pounds more than the Taurus. "

    I agree, I too would want the 3.5L from the start, but because of the development of the Cyclone 3.5L, and current factory outputs, it can't be manufactured any earlier.

    " The transmission may make some difference, but how much difference can it truly make?"

    Considering your Honda's V6 has a 4:10 (maybe 4:41 now) which is needed since Honda engines need to rev high to attain the majority of their power. Hence, give them a 4:41 gearing for it's initial launch, then wait for the high revs of horsepower pick up the rest. it's the reason it feels that fast. Compare to that (depending on generation Taurus) 3:27 and 3:98. Now the transmissions in the 500 will be 6:1 ratio, for improved take-off launches, from 4: to 6:1, there's quite a bit of difference.

    " But it looks like the AWD model is going to sell for about 30 or 31K, maybe more"

    Which goes to show it's NOT competing with Accord or Camry, but higher tier offerings like the Avalon.

    "I know it's a lot newer, but I doubt that the '04 Taurus can comapre to the Accord."

    Ford has dropped the ball on the Taurus since Jac Nasser didn't concentrate much on it, which explains why the Taurus will go for rental fleets once the Futura debuts.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Everyone - you need to multiply the transmission gear ratios by the final drive ratio. A numerically high ratio will give better acceleration, and a numerically low ratio will give higher speed and fuel economy while cruising.

    The wide ratio spread possible with the CVT or six speed (vs four or five speed) transmission really will get more out of the same engine. Car and Driver saw the LS430 gain one second from 0 to 60 when the transmission was upgraded from a five speed to a six speed.

    The 500 CVT will have a ratio range from 2.47:1 to 0.41:1, and a final drive ratio of 4.98:1 on front drive cars, and 5.19:1 on AWD cars.

    The 500 six speed automatic will have a ratio spread from 4.15:1 to 0.69:1, and a final drive ratio of 3.46.

    On the front wheel drive 500s with the CVT (SE models), the engine crankshaft will turn 12.3 times for every rotation of the drive wheels when just starting to move, to 2.04 times while cruising.

    On the front wheel drive 500s with the six-speed automatic (SEL and Limited models), the engine crankshaft will turn 14.359 times for every rotation of the drive wheels when just starting to move, to 2.387 times while cruising.

    On the AWD 500s with the CVT, the engine crankshaft will turn 12.8 times for every rotation of the drive wheels when just starting to move to 2.13 times while cruising.

    Yes, ANT14, the majority of the Camrys, Accords, and Altimas are sold with the four cylinder engine. The V6 Avalons, Buicks (non-supercharged), and so forth are also not very fast. The V6 Camrys, Accords, and Altimas only have five speed automatics. The bigger cars only have four or five speed automatics.
  • biggie2biggie2 Posts: 45
    "For maybe about 32K you could get an AWD G35, and, honestly, that is probably a much better car."

    Completely different automotive catagories, cant imagine much cross shopping between the two. Ford may have dropped the mark in the 90's, but wait till '05, '06 and see how you feel.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Vehicle 500 awd G35 awd
    Front head 39.4 40.1
    Front hip 54.2 52.2
    Front leg 41.3 43.6
    Rear head 38.6 37.9
    Rear hip 54.1 54.1
    Rear leg 40.9 33.6
    Trunk 21 14.8
    HP/Torque 200/200 260/260
    Tires 225/55/18 215/55/17
    Wheelbase 112.9 112.2
    Lbs. 3,815 4,509
    Length 200.7 186.5
    Width 73.7 69.0
    Height 60.1 57.7

    The G35 back seat and trunk are far smaller than the 500, and the G35 weighs 694 Lbs. more than the 500, negating much of the greater power of the G35 engine.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Well that's just like shopping between a loaded $18K Focus, or a base $16K Taurus. Different categories, depending how you option them.
This discussion has been closed.