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Comments
I don't understand the road noise comment. The '05 is, to me, much quieter and more comfortable than the previous generation.
The other issues, while certainly annoying, at least are not related to the mechanical integrity of the van, and should be able to be "debugged" by the dealer. They are also somewhat isolated (not everyone has them), plus some noises, etc. that upset one owner aren't even noticed by others.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
One thing I do suggest is to ask to take a quick drive in another van to compare it. Sometimes it is just a characteristic of a particular model, but if you drive another one and it doesn't have the problem, then you know.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Remember, it's a giant refrigerator box. Without lots of sound proofing, it's going to be loud.
First, I would also be sick at the thought of paying $35k for an EX-L. Considering our EX-L was $28k in January of '05.
Second, I have an extremely hard time believing that anyone at Honda would consider a 102 dba reading as acceptable.
For comparison: Car and Driver tested a new Dodge Viper Coupe in late '05. Now, I don't think anyone here would disagree that, generally speaking, a Dodge Viper MIGHT be a tad louder than a Honda Odyssey. Well, Car and Driver measured sound levels of 77 dba at a 70mph cruise speed and 'only' 88 dba at FULL THROTTLE ACCELERATION.
Now considering that the sound pressure doubles for every 10 points on the decible scale, I have difficulty believing ambient interior sound levels MORE THAN TWICE that of a Dodge Viper at full throttle.
Something seems off on your measurements or your dealer's ears, considering here are some examples of decibel levels.
110 Football stadium during kickoff at 50 yard line; chainsaw at 1 m (3 ft)
100 Jackhammer at 2 m (7 ft); inside disco
90 Loud factory, heavy truck at 1 m (3 ft)
80 Vacuum cleaner at 1 m (3 ft), curbside of busy street, PLVI of City
70 Busy traffic at 5 m (16 ft)
60 Office or restaurant inside
50 Quiet restaurant inside
I find it hard to believe that anyone would find a jackhammer at 2 meters away an acceptable volume for inside of any vehicle.
Perhaps you should sell your van, since the resale value is amazing, and their aren't a lot of Odyssey's on the market with so few miles and I bet there is a number of people who would jump at it.
Good luck!
I'm sure it is an EX-L/RES+NAV not a plain EX-L.
Second, I have an extremely hard time believing that anyone at Honda would consider a 102 dba reading as acceptable.
I agree, 102dba would require ear protection per OSHA.
As a note, the "drone" in my van seems to be exacerbated in the ECO mode... in addition, like another poster (a few pages back), I have a fairly loud vibration at around 1200-1500 rpms as well... so much so that my dash vibrates... I also have a VERY annoying whistle when cruising about 60-65 -- it's so loud, I have to turn the radio up to about 17-18 to drown it out... I think that can probably be fixed via moulding replacement...
But my guess on the droning? The "fix" is probably related to several factors or components -- redesigned engine mounts, different thickness and type of materials that the air induction system, engine mounts, exhaust, bell housing, etc., are made of... probably more rubber and insulation, etc...
I used to be a professional drummer, and the thing that keeps coming up in my mind is harmonic resonance... almost a systemic issue, not just one single fix... so in some respects, while it's not technically a "defect", the droning is -- IMHO -- a systemic flaw in terms of the engineering that went into the VCM system... everything works just fine, there are no safety problems or mechanical malfunctions; therefore, no safety recalls, likely no lemon law applications, etc...
HOWEVER, Honda will be hurt by this due to current customers trading for another brand or potential customers not buying at all... this is definitely a black mark on Honda's reputation... I bought three Hondas in the last 2-1/2 years (04' Civic EX, '04 Accord EXV6, and am '05 Odyssey EXL/RES)... to be honest, while they seem nice at first -- they ALL have had problems, and more so than I would have thought...
My Civic needs to have the dimmer switch replaced, the fuel level sensor replaced, and the right rear passenger door lock mechanism replaced... I've never had a car with 50k miles on it need this much work since owning a 2000 Saturn... I traded my Accord for the Odyssey... and while I loved my Accord, I had to have the rack and pinion replaced due to excessive play in the steering, and that was at 30k miles!
There's a part of me that thinks wow! If HONDA's are having so many problems, what must the other brands be going through? But then again, the most reliable, least-annoying cars I owned were a 1983 Chevy Cavalier and a 1990 Mustang LX 5.0 -- both had close to 150k miles on them, and neither of them gave me a lick of trouble -- ever.
Granted, as my wife mentioned, they were not as sophisticated as the vehicles we own today -- which is true. But then again, it seems like we've progressed enough technologically to overcome the mechanical barriers that are causing some of these problems -- or have we?
It makes me think I might look for less "sophistication" next time rather than more.
I think people's expectations are too high when buying a new Honda. The old Hondas of the 80's were bulletproof and they earned a great reputation for reliability - 200-300k miles with no major repairs. They were expensive relatively speaking - a new 1988 Accord was probably the same price as a 2007 Accord LX. Something had to give in mass production - quality of materials, parts subcontracted to same suppliers as GM.
My track record with Honda is pretty similar to yours. My first Honda was a brand new '03 Accord EXV6. My wife and I called it "the Lemon" and traded on the '06 Odyssey. We loved the car when it was new but had so many problems with it that we had to get rid of it. Traded it with 57k miles and had tie rod ends replaced, curtain airbags removed and reinstalled, unresolved creaking noises, rear struts failed, and the transmission replaced - wow, forgot how much work that car had done to it.
Then we bought a used 2000 Odyssey with 93k miles. Had 2 transmissions replaced for free under Honda factory extended warranty (defective transmission campaign). We still own it with 135k miles and think it is a better built car than the '06. It rides rougher than the '06 but the build quality & materials are much better. Oh...yeah, the engine/exhaust is pretty darn quiet compared with the new one.
So...as long as Honda keeps fixing the problems for free ("goodwill") and hides defects with voluntary TSB's instead of recalls they will keep their "reliable" reputation. As a whole, I think Honda builds good cars compared to many domestic brands.
We happened to buy a Honda model that is experiencing problems - problems that will probably never get completely resolved (droning). For example, a co-worker bought a 4cyl '03 Accord LX base model for $18k and has over 100k miles with not one problem except the front brakes were replaced under warranty.
I may look at Hyundai or Toyota for my next car or van or SUV. It is going to take a lot for Honda to earn my trust again.
BUT, in the LONG run, I'm kind of like you -- I'm having a problem trusting Honda, and that may or may not continue... but to be fair, in many ways, I agree -- I think people (including myself) have/had WAY too high of expectations of Honda... but who's to blame for that?? I tried to be objective, read Edmunds, Consumer Reports, etc., and everything pointed to an excellent and/or way above average product... so who are you supposed to trust? Believe?
But when it comes time to replace the Civic (which, unless the Odyssey issue becomes a nightmare, we'll probably keep it because of its people-hauling utility), I am leaning toward the Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix), or another Accord (either wait for '08s to come out and snag a killer deal on an '07, or wait until the '09s or even 10s come out -- I will NEVER buy the first year of a re-design ever again... I read in CR that more than half of the new cars with a lot of problems were re-designed in '05 or '06), or perhaps the Camry (I think the new Camry has a lot of great points)... I've also thought of looking at the Mazda CX7 or new 6 when it comes out... but that's probably not for another year or so when my daughter starts driving...
Also, the problems we are experiencing are design flaws & are irrirating. They should not affect the reliability or lonegevity of the vehicle.
I don't think reprogramming the tranny lock-up point will help my case. My car is droning in the all of the gears now...2nd or 3rd gears around 40mph is the worst.
Lastly, you need to wait until the 3rd or 4th year for bugs to be worked out of a new model. My '06 Ody is a second year and has the same bugs as the '05. I jheard of one report that '07's still drone...
If the '08 CRV's have no mechanical issues I may consider another Honda...I can deal with a few fit & finish issues.
I can hear a slight bit of the effect, usually if I am driving at steady lower speed (around town), and hit a slight upgrade and the trans doesn't downshift. Not sure if some peoples vans have a more pronounced noise, but it doesn't bother me, and I don't think I would even notice it, unless I was looking for it (thanks to the wonders of these discussion!)
As for road noise, I think the van is very quiet on the road, certainly quieter than the previous generation The only exception to that is the tires are noisy on certain road surfaces (concrete I believe). On asphalt, you can hardly tell it is running or moving, and it is easy to have a conversation with anyone in the van.
The wind whistle can be fixed by replacing the windshield mouldings. If you are getting excessive road noise from the tire/road surface combo, you could try swapping tires.
Or, if it bothers you that much and nothing can be done about it, take advantage of the high resale and trade in on a Sienna.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I have an extended warranty on both my '04 Civic and '05 Odyssey, but others may disagree, which is ok... because I think it totally depends on your temperament, the amount of risk you're willing to live with, how well you can negotiate the price of the ext warranty, etc...
On one hand, I do agree with Black... you likely won't need to invoke it due to the probability that something major won't happen...
But for me though, in some things, I don't play the probabilities (especially costly repairs if they COULD happen) -- I play the RESULT of the probability... meaning, yes, it may be less than a 1% chance that something major will happen; however, SHOULD that 1% happen TO ME, I'm out $6000 for a new engine (for example) if it’s out of warranty... and while Honda “might” stand behind it, they might not, and they don’t have to I personally am not willing to expose myself to that much risk in dollar terms
And since I only paid $750 for a 6yr/100k Honda bumper-to-bumper warranty for my ’04 Civic EX and $825 for the same warranty on my ’05 Odyssey EXL/RES, I pretty much felt – given how much a repair MIGHT cost – that was a reasonable price but note that I don’t bow to the pressures of the F&I guy trying to sell me something on the contrary – I make them sweat bullets! I think the “retail” price they start at is something like $1200-$1500, which is ridiculous if you want the ext warranty, then stand your ground on what you’re willing to pay, because extended warranty prices are negotiable
Also, keep in mind that the GOOD ext warranties also cover “minor” things ( ) like fuel level sensors, dimmer switches, door locks, etc., which incidentally I need to have replaced on my Civic that has 52k miles and which the ext warranty covers -- without the warranty that I paid $750 for, I'd have to pay close to that to have all these repairs done AND I'm only half-way through the warranty period... I think, given the "sophistication" (read, "complex" ) of today's vehicles, even "minor" things that cost do add up, and those things DO happen...
But, if you are worried about the Odyssey in general, that is your instincts telling you something I guess you just have to work through that but personally, even knowing what I know now about the Odyssey, I would still buy it vs. the competition – and THAT to me is what this is all about like Black said, the droning thing is irritating, but liveable I don’t believe there’s anything mechanically wrong, just something in the way the engine mounts and noise cancellation system deal with the inherent vibrations of shutting down the three cylinders and my guess is that Honda will come up with some type of retro fix for ‘05s and ‘06s, perhaps a kit of some type that includes the A-pipe replacement (e.g., TSB 06-050), engine mounts, rubber, insulation, etc., etc., to make it bearable
To be fair – for me, it’s not that bad it is noticeable if you’re looking for it, but it’s not the end of the world (I know some people have mentioned it’s pretty bad, but mine isn’t that bad – noticeable, but not horrible) and to the VCM’s credit, last year after Hurricane Rita hit, my parents’ property in SE Texas was hit pretty bad, so my brother and I loaded up a truckload and vanload of supplies and drove down there (I live in the Dallas area) I got well over 30 MPG on the way down there, and that was with the van loaded down with tons of water, extra gas, supplies, coolers, groceries, etc, in a vehicle basically the size of some SUVs that get 16-18 MPG so the VCM system works, it just needs some tweaks and refining to iron out the vibration bugs
Good uck and happy shopping!
Like I said in my previos post, Honda will usually perform a goodwill if you are a dedicated customer, bought the car new, & service at the dealership. I think they know other manufacturers like Hyundai are creeping into their sales market - they have a 100k mile warranty.
I am curious to know if anyone tried undercoating with an Ody & what the success rate is with reducing noise.
Looks like there is a class action law suit against Honda with the transmission failures.
It's about time...a tranny failture on the highway can be dangerous. I know first hand...2003 Accord V6, 40k miles (bought new) failed uphill on I-78 in New Jersey, barely moved off the road in heavy truck traffic.
Also, my 2000 Odyssey with 135k is on its 3rd transmission (all free replacements). Instead of putting another defective tranny in the cars, Honda should have sued their supplier & demanded an engineering solution to the problem.
Now I'm dealing with the 2000rpm drone on my new '06 Odyssey. Some say I'm a glutton for punishment.
Our '05 EX-L is upto around 30k miles. No dronning so far. I guess my wife and I got the good one.....
Does your Service Manager know this? We need to make sure they know the TSB A-pipe kit did not resolve the problem.
Yes. Quite often. All of which is immaterial since:
a) my wife's ears are MUCH more sensitive than mine, and
b) my wife would not hesitate to let me know if she felt the van was making any 'odd' noises.
I report no droning in our Ody because.......it doesn't drone. Ody's without droning DO exist.
Our car drones at 60mph @ 2000rpm. The bypass we use everyday has a speed limit of 55mph so we drone all week long.
My dealer has tried to fix ours since June '06 - 5 times. Engine mounts, A-pipe kits, hanger adjustments...still drones.
:confuse:
If an owner must have a noise POINTED OUT TO THEM, is it really a problem in the first place?
Ours didn't....13k miles. Make sure you know the droning noise is sometimes not apparent when the car is brand new.
Our '06 ody started droning around 900 miles on the odometer.
I think that Honda designed the transmission in this vehicle to shift up early and lock up whenever there is farily light-throttle. The result is that the engine lugs a bit and you get some resonance. I usually drive 75-80 on the freeway and it goes away at higher rpm/speed. It disappears with lift-throttle. so it is definitely a drivetrain problem. I suspect a different electronic profile for the tranny would be a fix at the expense of some fuel economy.
I will ask about this A-pipe business, and the tranny mounts when I take it in. But i think the fix is somewhere else.
Here's a link: link title
The '07 has a new transmission and the shift points were changed. I test drove the '07 and didn't hear any droning. Also, I haven't heard anyone with the '07 complaining (funny not many people care about the drone in their '05 & '06's).
I am aware that the LX does not have ANC (active noise cancellation). I can't scroll back to the earlier messages here. is VCM the engine mount system (which I believe the LX does also NOT have).
So which avenues fo repair did they explore blackexV6? remapped shift points are not likely to happen. Did your dealer acknowledge the noise?
Thanks.
What year is your LX? I'm assuming it is an '05 or '06 because I haven't heard of any complaints on the '07.
VCM is variable cylinder management (3cyl mode) on the EXL and Touring models.
My car had 5 repair attempts with no significant change in the droning defect. We had engine mounts replaced, A-pipe replaced per TSB-050, B-pipe replaced, & several exhaust hanger mods & adjustments.
Honda knows there is a droning noise in all '05 & '06 Odysseys and states "it is a normal operating characteristic of the vehicle". So...good luck in your fight. Keep taking the car back until they get tired of seeing you then go to another dealer.
Not many people are willing to fight Honda on this problem + the '07's seem to be fixed w/the new transmission. That is why Honda is getting away with this defect, if nobody complains nothing will get done!
I was not listening for the 2K drone at the time. Even if durability and longevity of the transmission is fine, it just bugs me when the vehicle would otherwise be more quiet at a very common speed range.
As posted earlier, I would like it if the transmission wasn't quite as quick to shift up/lock up at 40mph as I think it lugs a bit. But likely the fuel economy would suffer.
If it is just some harmonic resonance in the exhaust, intake system, etc it seems like Honda could be eliminated - new exhaust system??. I'll let you know what my dealer says.
Or, perhaps, not many people HAVE (or have noticed) a drone in their '05 and '06's.
So far, there are over 160 posts in this Droning discussion. I wonder what % of these posts are from ONE individual?
I looked at this site today: http://www.odyclub.com/
Some similar threads.
I'm taking our Ody in on Monday. Thanks for the tips everyone. I'll let you know how I come out.
I really don't know whether all the ody has this problem (but they ignore/cannot notice it???) or just few samples including me. Very frustrating...
Will this part replacement help??? I don't know based on all the postings here...
I consider myself very well informed about the droning defect. My '06 EXL had 5 repair attempts from new engine mounts to A-pipe replacement & modified exhaust hangers. American Honda's official response is "the droning noise is a normal operating characteristic of all '05+ Odysseys".
The only thing you can do is complain to your service manager & file a case with Honda Corporate. The more people that join the fight maybe we have 1/2 a chance.
I'm surprised your '07 drones...your car has the shift points re-mapped with the new Pilot & Ridgeline transmission. What speed do you hear the drone? At 2000rpm your car is probably going 70mph...the '05 & '06's are at 60mph.
You will also notice that only a few people are willing to fight...others are rolling over & living with the defect but not me.
I have a same problem and tired with this problem.
I don't know how to fight this issue
I just spread this problem with someone who interested in Honda Oddysey.
I will never buy Honda again.
This is what I can right now.
DL
I also noticed that idle engine noise is pretty annoying, too...