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I believe you should be able to visually see the leak if you can see/access that part of the brake pedal where the brake pushrod is seated. Good luck.
Air leak from around clevis pushrod allowed ambient air(14.7psi) to gradually push diaphragm to apply pressure on Master Cylinder and causing "Master cylinder pressure sensor" to cause ECU to light up ALL lights!
I found this and repaired.
Dealer wanted to diagnose for 3 hrs. and replace sensor to see what else was needed!!
Screw that.
$550 part and my 2.5 hrs. labor-Fixed.
Tom
Thanks,
Steve
97 XLS w/ all the toys!
Enjoy & Long Live The Avalon!
Anyone would know what could cause such problem? Avalon 97 XL.
Thanks,
gp
Steve
** 97 XLS w/ All The Toys! **
** My Baby! **
** Enjoy & Long Live Your Avalon! **
One possible and final solution for you...presuming your calipers are checked and NOT sticking (again, by testing the temperature after the car has been driven)...is to install a higher quality aftermarket rotor. Certainly many people have successfully beaten the "rotor dance" by doing this.
I don't think turning your old rotors was a good idea as it creates a kind of vicious circle...by cutting the rotors they have less mass and with less mass they can heat up even faster, thereby warping faster, etc
Visiting Host
I've been asking others about the brakes. I used blue ceremic pads when I put new pads & new rotors on. They were supposed to be the best. A friend says they cut into the rotors more & perhaps a softer pad would help.
We checked the rotors for wear & they do not all look alike. One looks more worn than the other 3. Haven't taken it to the shop yet to check the calipers.
Yes you're right, some pads are "very good" but hard on rotors.
If I have to buy new rotors, should I buy new pads too?
I have to make a trip to Virginia in two weeks. The Toyoto Dealer I bought the car from is up there. Would it be safe to drive that far & look into getting the work done there?
I have just replaced the tires on my 55K 2003 Avalon XLS, and the pulsation was immediately obvious. The lugs on all four wheels were greatly overtorqued, and required considerable effort with a long lugnut rod to loosen them. I tightened them to a little more than finger tight, and drove round the block a couple of times. I then retightened them, taking great care to perform this operation very evenly and carefully, spreading the pressure across the whole wheel. I applied sufficient torque that I could easily loosen the nuts with the small wrench that comes as standard equipment.
The excessive pulsation has gone. There is a very slight vibration that I consider normal for an Avalon that has never had a brake service, though my 2002 Saab (which has a much better disk system) is a smooth as the day I bought it.
So check those wheel lug nuts !!
The car shimmys when I put on the brakes. I have 4 new tires. Will this not wear my tires out very quickly?
If the brakes check out perfectly, I'm afraid you'd have to at least consider driver error (hit the wrong pedal) or confusion.
Also, they should check for debris under the brake pedal (old water bottle, etc.) and possibly a defective power brake booster---which would give you a very very hard pedal so that it might feel like there were no brakes (but there are if you push hard enough).
Also, you might very well have hit something in the road prior to the crash, damaging the rear brakes.
I called Toyota customer service and was told that although I have an extended warrant, brakes are wear and tear items and are not covered. The agent could not care less about the fact that the mileage was only 27,798. She suggested that I take it to another Toyota dealer for a second opinion. Regarding the tires, she suggested that I contact Michelin, the manufacturer. She staterd this was "not a Toyota problem to resolve".
Has anyone had this problem with the brakes and or tires? What might be the cause of this and what recourse should I take. My other car is a 2000 Avalon and I never had these difficulties. I was the sole driver of that car until I got the 2006 model.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I would find a reputable independent shop (maybe a Michelin dealer) for a second opinion, since brake pads and tires are not covered under Toyota warranty anyway.
If the tires were rotated properly how do two go bald and two not? They should all be pretty close. Take the car to a Michelin dealer and ask the question...
This whole thing sounds strange. Like the dealer wants some money you don't need to spend. Good luck, keep the forum posted .
To say the least, the road was slick. So I kept my speed to about 5-10 MPH. On four separate occassions while traveling this 3/4 mile stretch, my ABS system failed on me. On each occasion, the ABS kicked in and was pumping like mad. After pumping for what was probably several long seconds, the brake pedal would sink to the floor. During these events, my car did not feel as if it was decelerating at all. And of course, once the brakes hit the floor, I had absolutely no braking ability.
Please note that I was not manually pumping the brake, but letting the ABS system do its job. In addition, I don't believe I lost the ability to steer the car, although steering was incredibly tough since the roads were so slick.
I was finally able to get down the various hills by mainly hitting up against curbs (and fortunately missing mailboxes and telephone poles along the way). Once I got to the main road (which was plowed), my brakes appeared to work fine. So I continued to work since trying to head back to my house up those snow covered hills didn't appear to be a good option.
The local Toyato dealer was kind enough to get me an appointment within the hour of my call to them. However, they were unable to find anything wrong with the brake system. They tried to simulate the ABS failure in a snow covered parking lot (which was several hours after my event...and thus the snow was at least starting to melt and turn into slop). Of course, they couldn't recreate the failure, but instead confirmed that the ABS system was working as intended. They also ran diagnostics, which showed that no ABS failure code was recorded in the system. Lastly, they called Toyota corporate who claims that no one else had reported a similar situation.
Of course, my car was out of alignment due to my curb riding. So I left with a $85 bill for an alignment along with the "call us if it happens again". I asked the service manager if he knew what he was asking me to do -- wait until the brakes fail again and hope that I'm still around to talk to them about it.
To say the least, I probably won't ever buy another Toyota. Not sure how long I'm going to hang on to this one either...which I also use to transport my family in. So much for their safety rating in my book.
I appreciate all advice, tips and suggestions!
If you read the owners manual carefully you will find that these other functions have a time out delay to prevent overheating of this pumpmotor. What the manufacturers do not seem to be willing to say, admit, is the ABS functionality has this very same limitation, if the pumpmotor begins to overheat then you will lose ABS capability .
If you happened to start out the morning with anything less than an absolutely FULL battery charge then even the WORSE. I would also clean and burnish the battery posts/terminals/connections as just a bit if additional insurance.
That could be the result of a low battery, poor battery positive and/or negative connections, poor connections to the ABS pumpmotor, or a "tired" ABS pumpmotor. Most modern day vehicles have a time-out system to prevent the prolonged use of the ABS pumpmotor in support of other, ancillary, functions such as TC, VSC, EBD, and BA. Basically "reserving" some portion of the ABS pumpmotor for its primary purpose/use.
If some of these ancillary functions were highly active just prior to the need for ABS it is entirely possible that ABS capability would be foreshortened accordingly. And given the conditions stated it seems highly probable that TC would have been in use and maybe even VSC.
The ABS pumpmotor very likely has a permanent magnet rotor and it doesn't take many overheating cycles to compromise the magnetic aspects of the rotor. Therefore a weakened pumpmotor functionality.
Got any links for this? I need to know more about it.
No, NEVER.
The problem could also have been a bit of debris blocking one of the ABS fluid pressure solenoid relief valves open slightly. Debris "washed" away, nothing for the techies to find wrong with the ABS.
But my experience has been that an ABS failure light indication is often the very first indication that I need to replace a failing 12 volt battery. The ABS pumpmotor self-test puts a VERY heavy load on the 12 volt power source and distribution system and if the battery is even slightly marginal.....
So, it was working as intended and it failed..but... it passed! This example is more proof that modern auto electronic systems are simply far too complicated. Scary trip. This should not happen in a modern sedan.
But then, you never lost control of the car. An ABS working well gives you control as the wheels don't lock. Same for skid control. You might not stop but you go where you steer. These systems generally override any manual input. The sinking pedal allows this to happen within the systems therefore no error code. Probably.
It may be as *wwest* has described it above. Electrical current is critical to the modern auto. A voltage drop could slow the response time and maybe still not show an error. In any case, you are along for the ride. This might happen in any ABS/VSC car depending on the system settings, electronics, etc. ....Where is my 1959 Buick......?
Either in the junk yard or already melted down as scrap..
Exactly where it should be.
The way I remember it cars of that era were more prone to brake pedal "fade" for a myriad of reasons. Blown master cylinder seal being the most common but not far above on eof the 4 brake shoe pistons.
As wwest indirectly pointed out, if the system is over/short of voltage for whatever reason you should get a MIL in the dash along with a trouble code stored in memory. A MIL and corresponding DTC should appear for any abnormalities in the system (ABS, EBD, BA, VSC, etc.). What happened to “mermidon” was completely out of wack, especially for the fact that the tests done by the mechanic showed no symptoms at all. mermidon didn’t mention, however, if he noticed any warning beeps and/or lights in the dash just prior to the incident.
My two cents: pay attention to the dash when starting your car. If any of the brake system icons don’t clear a couple of second after ignition, leave your car where it is and jump out of there!
Amaury
'08 Limited
ABS/EBD/VSC/etc will not cause an MIL.
Thanks!!!
Any help would be most appreciated :
Shawne">
the system and test driving low and behold I still have the same trouble.
The power brake booster seems to pass its operational checks. I have never heard
of this problem before any ideas on troubleshooting.
Thanks
Remove the ABS pumpmotor fuse temporarily to see.
The weather is bad so I may not mess with it for a day or two.
That is what I need is a starting point.
Thanks
also you need to use two spaners to remove the lower caliper bolt, one open ender on the locking nut and one on the bolt. Also on the 2005 GXI Mk3 you would need the Technicians Module to throw the ABS System into Bleed Mode if you don't have one then apparently you can't bleed the brakes on completion so I am told if anyone knows different please let me know?
If you don't change it you system could gas up under heavy braking because the boiling point of water is only 100 deg C, and the boiling point of dot 4 fluid is 400 deg C. Gas Up means your brakes would not work at all on first push after sustained braking such as decending a steep winding road. this is caused by the steam created which is compressable.
I have had this happen in a Camry Taxi where the fluid was not flushed completly but pads were changed.
I'd appreciate any advice anyone might provide to help me diagnose the problem. Thank you.