Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
My point is they continue to put the 3.8 in the Windstar and the Mustang. So don't bet on the Vulcan going away. I also wouldn't bet that the 3.8 head gasket problem has been addressed.
As far as putting a four in the Taurus; maybe a reasonable stratergy if energy gets tight and the fours make a 20% or so improvement in fuel economy over the current v-6s.Also gas would have to increase by 50 cents to a buck a gallon fior most folks to consider a four. Right now fuel economy is not an issue with most new car buyers. Why should it be when gas is as cheap as it has ever been!
Taurus originally was thought to be based on Volvo, but after 500 arrival they decided to move to less expensive platform like Mazda6. Not bad to me, it should more sporty car, though I would rather go for Mercury Sable based on Mazda6. It ought to be of higher quality and more sporty than Ford. They also may shoose to keep Taurus as Lumina or Malibu Classic - just for fleets and rental. Why not Mondeo, probably it is more expensive platform than Mazda6.
Well, yesterday I paid a visit to dealer service because the hood release handle malfunctioned in my S.W. They fixed it and replaced windshield wipers which were brittle. I should've bought an extended warranty. Mine expires in April 03. With an hourly rate of $85 + parts, the dealer is going to take me to the cleaners. After April I'm afraid my car will begin experiencing mechanical problems.
I usually try to avoid dealers for service except for recalls due to their generally high prices. Fortunately, so far, little need to go anywhere for service with my '00. One insignificant recall, and two tire rotations is all it has been in for any service. I change oil, oil filter and air filter myself. With buying oil and filters on sale, I spend about $8-9 max per oil change also.
$23K just happens to be the list price (not negotiated) for the accord lx v6.
Meanwhile, many other Taurus and Sable owners have the proof they can get a well equipped one with DOHC for $18K. I have the proof sitting in my garage. Taurus SES, DOHC V-6. That you will notice is $3k less than I will bet you can buy your Accord LX sedan.
Since you are obviously not going to change your mind, and the happy Taurus/Sable owners posting here are unlikely to either, I think it is fruitless for me to respond to your posts anymore. I will leave it up to someone else if they want to carry on.
Taurus/Sable are good value. There is a large segment of the population that think they are inferior. Ford did that to themselves.
have any other with cloth seats. I frankly didn't even know at that time whether or not I could get a Sable/Taurus well equipped without leather seats.
As for dealer's service, I used to hate it and, in fact, I had my previous vehicles serviced at a private shop. Well, since I began taking my Merc. to the dealer, service has been considerably cheaper than at he private shop.
If I were to trade at this point in time, I'd go for either another Sable or a Taurus.
leather cleans easier. yes, you do clean your seats don't you? when you kid or dog yacks on the seat you wipe it up. With cloth, gotta shampoo it and hope the odor doesn't stay in it.
This is a seriuos question. Make your case Taurus owners.
1986- 50K miles, no problems, Vulcan. GREAT mpg.
1988- 125K miles, no problems, 3.8L. Very good mpg.
1991- 175K miles, no problems, 3.8L. Very good mpg
1996- 115K miles, no problems, Duratec. Best mpg was just over 25
The '88 & '91 had the 3.8L engine and I did not have the head gasket problem. The '91 & '96 needed a water pump and A/C clutch around 100K. The '91 needed PS hoses around 150K. They all needed tires, struts and the normal wear-out items. We still have the '96 and it runs as well as the day we brought it home almost 7 years ago. Were I not in the financial position I am in, we would have a 2000 Sable in the garage instead of the Lincoln LS that lives there now.
On the positive side the 3.8L is a smooth engine and is still running strong at 114K and does not burn oil. I have always maintained my cars religiously. Also the pwr windows and locks have had no problems on both cars.
I think Ford should make quality their sole focus instead of trying to boost sales with new concept cars.
I also think that they don't (or didn't in the past) care to retain customers because their first reaction to a widespread problem (like the head gasket) is to deny it, to keep costs down. Jac Nasser may have had something to do with that philosophy...
"Actually, you can get the LS with the 3.8 for $17K if you have enough GM card earnings and do a factory order."
Without the GM card, you still can't match the Taurus pricing on a Duratec vs. 3800 comparison.
Plus, the Taurus is better looking, inside and out. Sable too.
I rented a 2000 Taurus once and thought it a nice car as well....I admit, its mediocre in comparison to some of the most recent additions to the sedan market. However, its probably the best value out there for a car that has some tech in the powertrain and doesn't have the overall cheapness of some of the GM products.
I think Ford could improve the current Taurus with some tweaking however. But tell me what other car can you drive and not get scorned at like you would with a Grand Prix, and have an up to date powertrain, solid ride and handling, interior with decent plastic, good space, and reliable overall? Taurus....the Duratecs are extremely solid and reliable.
Rode with my brother in law yesterday in his 97 SHO. 134 thousand miles on it now and NO PROBLEMS. Sounds and rides as tight as my 99 with 50 thousand on it. He thinks it will go to 250k no problem. Still looks new. He may put struts in it soon though.
Another friend I have had a 96 and 97 as company cars and both were very solid in 170,000 combined miles.
Factor in the good prices new and used, and a Taurus is a real solid buy. The car is not class leading, but is a better purchase decision than lots of other alternatives, either from a cost, or reliability, or looks standpoint.
I think it was Pluto5--I'm agreeing with you on the GM 3.8. It's ancient in terms of original engineering and when it began life. It's been constantly updated, and the fact that an engine designed in 1961 or so is still viable (and very much so) just proves the soundness of the design. It's very much like the 737 (nice analogy, BTW). That design is about as old, and yet it's still competitive versus the newer designs from Airbus because Boeing has kept improving it (I think they're up to the 737-700 and 737-800 now).
Also, I think you made the point that you prefer the 3.8 to the Vulcan, having driven both. I'm sure that's true (it's been a while since I drove a GM 3.8); just don't forget that the GM 3.4 is more of a direct competitor to the Vulcan in the size range we're talking (say Impala vs Taurus). The Duratech makes a better comparison to the 3.8.
Moving on to a more on-topic reply :-)
I've had Bridgestone Turanza RS-Ts on my '98 Taurus for 5000 miles now. I love them. The local tire shop (not Firestone) recommended them, based on my desire for decent snow and rain traction, a decent ride and handling, and good treadlife. They said I could go with Michelins, but they were $20 more per tire, and he didn't think it was worth it.
The store has a 30-day ride guarantee (full credit for other tires if you don't like them), and they have not replaced any yet. I can see why. They have great traction in snow and rain, and they handle well (much better than the General G4S tires the car came with). They are rated for 80,000 miles, as well.
I think Bridgestone themselves have a 30 day ride guarantee as well (look at their website to check) and so maybe you want to try them that way. I love mine, and I see no reason (nor did the tire guy) why I'd need to spend more on the Michelins.
BTW, for those who may be leery because they're Bridgestones and that means they're related to Firestones, the Turanza LS-Ts (probably all Turanzas) are made in Japan. They are not a rebadged Firestone tire, nor are they made in one of the plants that made the Explorer Firestones...
venus537 - you ARE the weakest link - GOODBYE!!
"my local dealer doesn't have any lx v6 models. i guess they're using all the v6s for the ex models."
Could it be that Honda is listing an LX V6 in their product lineup but not actually building any of them? Sounds like a type of bait and switch to me-get the buyer who wants a V-6 Accord in the door, then switch him up to a higher priced version because the LX V-6 they make so few of.
Now to stay on subject. Due to my overtightening of the pan bolts I have to get a new pan gasket on my Duratec. $500, YIKES! I guess I need an in/lb torgue wrench!
true, accord lx v6 models are more rare than the ex v6 models. but i will not be baited to something i don't want.
Venus, from your last post, are you now saying you would have to pay about list price of $23K for an Accord LX V-6? If so, then we are back up to about a $5K difference. If you believe you can get it at about invoice, then we are into the $3-4K difference.
In any case, can we agree that Taurus is a good value, even though it may not be best in class? Test drive a new Duratec equipped Taurus or Sable yourself and even you may grudgingly agree.
I'll add that a Taurus is a lot more defendable than say, a Century or something of that ilk.
Yeah the Taurus will not win a C/D comparo, yet the overall package is underated by a lot of folks IMHO.
you're probably right about the switch and bait with the accord lx v6. the local dealer has 24 ex v6 accords and only 2 lx v6 accords coming in. i don't know if one could get an accord lx v6 at invoice but it's probably less likely than getting the more expensive ex v6 accord at invoice. i just love those marketing people.
Great info on tires at Tire Rack, you can redo the search based on preference for handling, smoothride/ quiet, etc. When you open the link you may have to refresh (F5) to view the page:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Ford&am- p;am- p;am- p;autoModel=Taurus&autoYear=1993
If you go to a local dealer (and a Firestone/Bridgestone one at that) they should be aware of the 30-day ride guarantee. It might be a pain to go back again, but you'd at least get to try them for yourself and get the whole price back as credit for something else if you dislike them.
Overall, I think the car is good in about every area. It was very solid, good fit and finish, reasonable power at all speeds. After a week, I felt like I had a toyota as it was quite competent, but not impressive, in most areas.
Downsides: Seats were firm but not supportive. Very bland styling even though they were base equipment. CD stereo had inferior sound compared to base Delco systems. Ride was too firm and a bit loud, but some people prefer to call it "sporty" so I guess that is subjective. Engine was a bit weak on the Torque side, but not bad. The engine computer had a bit of trouble regulating the choke when starting, but the temp. in Maine was -15F that morning so I suspect other cars had problems too. The car (idling) was on the verge of stalling for the first minute. Didn't notice a recirculation button for climate control.
Upsides: Tight handling, radio controls were numerous, but logical. I like how they eliminate the double duty buttons found on some radios...an Improvement over past Ford systems. Good gas mileage. Solid build...the doors have a vault-like feel, very nice.
Overall, my driving experience was much like driving a toyota, bland but very competetant. However, it feels much more solid, and I would buy a Taurus over a Toyota/Honda in a heartbeat.
Again, as I have stated before, Taurus is not "best in class", but when you look at what you will pay for it, it is a good choice. Almost all the bells and whistles for actual buy price of about $18-$19K. I would have to think long and hard to spend another $3-$6K to get the "perceived" better features/performance of V-6 versions of the CamCordAltiPassats.
Of course, if you lease or trade often, then maybe your decision process is different due to the effects of less depreciation of some of the foreign badged competitors. If you buy outright and keep your car a long time like me, then depreciation means nothing.
1.) Prices on the competition are scary. VW=30,400, Camry=31,484, Altima=28,687, Accord=26,260 and Mazda=24,400. Not included in the comparison is the Maxima, while also hits the high 20s / low 30s. These are MSRP but even the shrewdest negotiator isn't likely to come close to the 18-19K you'd pay for a loaded T/S with an MSRP of around 24K.
2.) Based on numbers alone, which I realize don't always tell everything about a car, the T/S holds it's own against almost any measurement - speed, handling, interior room, etc. In fact, on the space categories, it wins more often than not. Yes it's an older design that needs to be updated to stay competitive, but price is it's big trump card.
3.) All isn't rosy for the T/S. For example, Ford shouldn't have gone cheap with the rear drums. Braking is clearly a weak point for the T/S and rear drums on a 3500lb car can't be helping. Ditto for the de-contented dual exhaust which would probably add some more hp and torque. 200hp barely cuts it these days with the new V6 family sedan standard about 220-240hp. Heated seats should also be an option on the T/S given all the higher end models that ship with leather standard and given that most of the competitors offer it. Same for the traction control/power passenger seat/side airbags option which lists for roughly $400 but which I couldn't find on any of the cars in my area back in 2000 at least. Given the fairly insignificant impact on the bottom line, these should be standard. (this is Ford's bread and butter family sedan so why wouldn't most families want better traction and safety for maybe $3 more a month on the payment.)
4.) However, the T/S's win in the engine category in terms of fuel - all the other cars require premium 91. Incremental fuel costs over the life of the car would add up.
5.) Finally, imagine if Ford worked on the T/S even a little. Presumably Ford makes money on these, even if the margin is low. Selling 400,000 of these must have a positive impact on the bottom line. Could boost the engine a bit (easy since the Duratec lives in Lincolns/Jags with more power), up the content a bit (brakes, exhaust, better quality leather, heated seats, traction control, power antenna, fancier hinges in the trunk to free up more space, toss a subwoofer in the trunk to boost the MACH audio option, audio controls on the steering wheel, maybe zenon type headlights/driving lights as an option, etc.), then make 17" alloys with 215 size tires an option. Instead of the current 18-19K out-the-door price, do this for say 21-23K, then market this thing properly and sales would likely take off even more. Many of these changes could also be offered only on the top-end models, so folks looking for a 16K GS would still be covered. Problem is that for the Sables at least, it would be hard to justify the price on a V6 Lincoln LS when the two could be parked side-by-side in the showroom.
Bottomline is these are solid cars for a great price but with just a little more work, they'd be unbeatable.
Owning a 99 SHO I see the benefits of things like 4 wheel discs. When I rented a 2000 one time and drove through hilly country it freaked me out because the disc/drum brake setup was so scary in comparison!
Ford would have to do a reskin to recreate interest in the car again for a lot of people, as they still see the silhouette being too familiar to the 96-99....i think this is what hurts it the most in the market, still too roundish for many in a time when creases are envogue. Too bad the Mondeo is not here.
I think as far as Taurus Sable goes, make the 200hp duratec the standard motor and make an option for an uprated Duratec (with vvt). Just pluck the engine from the Mazda6 or Lincoln LS. Make it about 230hp.
Redo the styling as much as possible without having to redo the structure of the car....i.e. reskin on the cheap to get rid of more of the oval look.
Either redo the dash and door panels again or upgrade the materials and controls on it now. Make more comfort options, like htd seats and give us nicer leather. And how bout a DECENT sound system, something that rivals an aftermarket system maybe instead of continually offering these cheeseball factory systems. An mp3 player input maybe?
Then, to add interest, let SVT take a shot at using the vvt duratec and tune it to about 240-270 hp and get a Getrag manual tranny and make a Taurus SVT. Try to keep the price of the SVT Taurus reasonable (i.e. not over 30k). The orginal SHO always generated a lot of interest in the Ford line and I think Ford needs to offer a performance Taurus again. If they can make a limited number of Focus with special manual transmissions every year, I see no reason to not do it with the Taurus. Even if SVT sold 5-10000 of them it would restore part of a special image to the Ford Taurus.
Of course in my fantasy world, they take v8 Taurus duratec based motor and pump it up to 300+ hp and offer it in an AWD version. The v8 SHO motor is based on the v6 Contour motor (v6 + 2 cylinders). If they took the Duratec 3.0 vvt motor and made a v8 out of it and performance tuned it through SVT, they would have a 4.0 litre v8 with vvt, and then they could microfinish the intakes, etc. and get about 325hp+ out of it.
I think most would just be happy with a performance v6 though. I sure would.
Rear drums. Though I have no probelm with it, I kepp a distance usually, sometimes it may be scary, because the car accelerates really fast and you don't notice it until you suddenly have to stop ASAP.
Seats are comfortable - more comfortable than in Camry. Actually Camry is the closets car to T/S in the market. But in both Camry and Sable I have a problem to find good driving position even though they both have power seats. Also I think that in both steering wheels are too far away (or pedals are too close). BTW I see no advantage in adjustible pedals, unless you are asian, so they should drop that feature to save money.
AT. Doesn't work properly like in other cars, like in Camry e.g.
Engine noise may be too harsh atlow rmps, but actually I like it. Driving Camry is more like driving an electric car. You don't feel engine and car. Everything is too smooth.
I like how constelation of buttons are shining in the dark of the night, though to use them may be a challenge on the freeway.
C-pillars on Sable are too thick. I have a problem with visibility. Car also could look better with thinner C-pillars in Jaguar style.
Generally ovaloid style is getting a little long in the tooth. They should restyle it more in Lincoln or Jaguar style back in 2000.
one other thing ford should address with the taurus would be an improved automatic transmission.
Some manufacturers will rate their engines at a certain HP based on use of high octane fuel, but will allow use of regular grade. Then, if the owner uses lower octane fuel, the engine is equipped with knock sensors and automatically adjusts the timing which slightly reduces preformance, to keep the engine from knocking (premature detonation) when using the lower octane fuel.
The difference in performance on these engines is usually pretty negligible whether you use standard grade or high octane fuels.
If the mfr recommends only use of high octane fuel, they probably designed it with compression ratios high enough that you may indeed see much poorer performance along with some objectionable knocking if you try to use regular grade gas.
Duratec is designed for use of regular gas, and for this engine, use of premium is a waste of money.