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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
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Comments
gunit : You have obviously never driven a 3.5L. It was as refined as anything in it's time and just as reliable. Why do you keep insinuating that the 3.5L was somehow not reliable??? I've been on the Intrigue board for 4 years and I have never heard of 1 engine failure. Please give me a source of your misinformation.
And FYI.. The SE came with the 3.8 as an option. Most retail cars had it, the 3.1L was for rentals.
I drive a Camaro, but just to throw in my two cents.... I think the 2004 Grand Prix is much improved. It does still fall short of some of it's competition. I would like to see a more attractive and sporty wheel option for it. A nice 17" to 18" five star pattern of some sort would look great to me. Anyway, if anyone could help out on the supercharger oil, I'd much appreciate it.
I ordered a fusion orange GT2 last week, and it should be delivered around mid-July. Right now there is a $1000 rebate and the program ends July 7th. Should be interesting to see what happens after the 7th. Maybe the incentive will go up!
Dindak, I drove the 3.5 in 2001 in the Aurora redesign and was NOT impressed, not enough power...esp for that heavy of a car. The 4.0 was much faster.. and more refined/quieter and got almost the same highway gas mileage. The 3.0L V6 in my Infiniti felt more refined then the 3.5 in the aurora that year, 2001, more smooth at high rpms.. and more power, i30t is lighter car. I never said or meant to convey the 3.5 was unreliable or a bad engine. If I did I apologize. It is a great engine that is more refined then the 3800, I 100% agree with you, I just happen to like the 3800 S/C better, esp the 280 ft lbs torque at 3600rpm, my opinion. Everybody like something different.
My only complaint is that the GTP looks tdentical to the GT, other then the badging on the lower front of the front doors. They should have had more distinction for the $3k price difference... oh well.
I remember the one 3.1 SE I was given as a loaner back in 1997 or '98 for work on my 1997, I think it only had about 160 horse!! Very weak...
The SE was nice with the old nose, I obviously liked it or I wouldn't have bought it. We had the 3.8L with alloys. T-boned a car going through a red light so there wasn't much left of the front end of it.
The GTP has more midrange power then then the Intrigue and faster 40-60 mph passing test and should be, more power. When they tested the Buick Park Avenue Ultra 3800 S/C against the Aurora V8, the Buick beat it in every acceleration test, 0-60, 40-60 and 1/4 mile. You are right the Intrigue is more refined then the GTP, we all like dif cars for dif reasons.
BTW, the Intrigue looks alot better then the Accord/Camry/Taurus, stands out more too. I always like the Intrigue looks.. though the best was my 1995 aurora, I thought that was the best looker, better looking then my GTP though some called it OVERSTYLED.. but everybody has an opinion. I really liked the Buick Rivieria, but you couldn't get the 4.0L V8 in it, only the 3800 s/c back in 1995. Came close to buying it but opted for the Aurora. again the Rivieria out accelerated my 1995 aurora in all tests too, 0-60, 40-60 and 1/4 with its old pushrod V6.. go figure... The Aurora had 10 more horse too... But Rivieria had more torque... people forget about torque... sometimes more important then horsepower rating.
Any injuries after the crash? Just curious to know how the GP crashtested.
They gave the GP a poor side crash rating though. Something I do not understand is how the Impala and Monte scored better in crash tests then the GP when they are on the same W body platform? I think the Impala&Monte were 5 star rated and the GP 4 star?
gunit, My GT is fast enough, most people want a good car with respectable power. The GTP has lots of power, but most people don't need that much. I know I didn't want to spent the extra $$ for it.
dan : GT2 is all I would get also. I love cars but I don't need excessive 0-60 speed, I have a family and just want a peppy competent good handling sedan.
Oldsman : Can't wait to see what the new 3.6L will do in the RDV and CTS.
Oldsman01, My 1995 Aurora was BLACK with the Beige Leather interior, nice combo, fully loaded with the Autobahn package which was just a higher final drive ratio and higher spd rated tires and I think 130mph governed spd? The only NEGATIVE on the 1995-1999 Aurora was the HANDLING.. which was a bit boaty/floaty. It was more suited to highway driving, and was also very NOSE HEAVY.. it weighed 3967 lbs, more then a crown vic. Also I felt the brakes were so-so, 0-60 was about 8 seconds. Resale value is HORRENDOUS on the Aurora, esp the 1995-1999 generation, I have experience with that. On the good side it makes for a very good used car purchase. The new Aurora of 2001 and on handles MUCH BETTER, but doesn't have as much as that stand out look. GM themselves admitted to down styling the car, citing that alot of people thought it was too overstyled and perhaps they lost sales because of that. It never sold well... only 20,000 - 25,000 per year. The new 2001 doubled the sales, but that is also because they put the 3.5 in as base which lowered the price. Sorry, but the 3.5 Aurora is underpowered... the best rating I ever saw for the Aurora was 7.6 seconds for the V8. I have seen as high as 8.5+ on the 3.5. The Aurora is about 200 pounds heavier then the intrigue.
That is a charachteristic of all DOHC engines, they are avg to weak until they hit 3000rpm. My 4.0L '95 aurora was the same way.. actually once you hit 4000rpm it really got moving. Same thing with my I30t DOHC.. once you hit 3000 it will keep going till it redlines. I like the 3800 s/c feel better, because there is power at any rpm. From a dead stop you can lay rubber like an old muscle car with the TCS turned off, of course don't try that at home either. Or at 100mph if I nail it, its still has great power.. It's hard to compare my car beause its been moddified with extra power. The GTP is easier/cheaper to modify then the Intrigue, there are more parts to modify the 3800 then there are the 3.5.
That said, I would go for a GT2 today if I was buying as I can't likely afford a GTP anyway.
Besides they don't make the 3.5 Aurora anymore, only the 4.0L and I think 2003 was the last yr of the aurora? Not sure.
Actually the 2002 GTP has the BOSE Stereo and Onstar, which the 1997 GTP didn't. The radio was garbage back in 1997. There are also alot more standard features on the 2002 GTP that were optional back in 1997.
My 1997 GTP cost me more then my 2002 GTP did, go figure... again the $3k rebate... I just get a laugh out of that. Also the 1997GTP had alot of problems, I can attest to them... but the drivetrain never had a problem, everything else... In 1997 I paid $24k for my GTP. In 2002 I paid $22k in change.... total.. so I put the differenfec/rebate back into mods....
The 5yr 60k warranty is nice on the olds... tood bad my GTP doesn't have it. I bought the ext warranty being as though I will have the car for the next 5-6 yrs.
That being said, I hope the people at GM take a hard look at giving the option of a manual transmission on a mid sized car. And none of that auto-stick crap, I want the third pedal and a real shifter. Its a small market, but real sports cars have manual transmissions.
I also re-sat in the back seat again. I think its not great but a bit better than previous generation(I've owned a 2000 GTP and currently have a 2003 GT) Its definitely not a seat for long distance travel unless you're a kid.
I think the 2004 is quite a step up from the 1997-2003, but there are still a few things that don't appeal to my tastes. Not to say Pontiac won't make some updates/changes over the next few years.
I thought maybe I'd better say something because it looks like I'm the only one with a 2004 grand prix (GTP-WS6 in sport red metallic. I bought the very first one that came in to my dealer, and I've had the car for almost two months now. There was a day when I'd wait for a couple of years after a model change before I'd buy a new GM car. I've had such good luck with the last several GM cars that got brazen enough to buy one built in the second week of production.
The lows: 1) Hard low back seat bottom 2) amazingly firm ride, not harsh, but very very firm 3) Faux coupe styling makes it hard to see out the rear quarter
The highs: 1) As the magazines all say, virtually zero torque steer 2) Vibrationless engine at idle 3) Good firm supportive front seats 4) Less wind noise than any car I've owned 5) strong low end torque 6) can't hear the supercharger at all 7) excellent fit and finish 8) pretty decent interior quality for a GM car 9) No niggling little GM new car problems.
My 2004 is replacing a 2000 Deville DTS and will be used primary as a work car. I'll also do some drag racing with like I do all my cars. I got this car because my lease was up on my DTS and I couldn't wait until the CTSv was available or even the 04 CTS with the new 3.6L. I wasn't about to get another Deville because I could get DTS exactly like the one I have now, and that's no fun. I will not, under any circumstances, buy Japanese and I've heard plenty from everyone I know that has/had a VW Passat. In fact a neighbor bought a 2003 Passat the same weekend I bought the GP, and hers has been back at the dealer for problems 4 times now and mine has never been back. I didn't really see all that much else in the $30,000 range I'd buy. I still don't have the interior material quality that one would have with the Passat, but the 2004 is a big improvement over the old GPs. The 2004 is obviously built to a price point as everything is, but the compromises are acceptable to me. Pontiac got a lot of details right with this car. So far so good.
From a Deville DTS to a GP! Wow.
04gtpws6 : Congrats on the new GP. Great pictures!!
Had the fusion orange been the first color that came in I would have done it. I've seen one that color and it works quite well on this car
Thanks to FWD I can still drive in the snow and pay 20% less insurance then Mustang/Transam owners. Yes, the '04 is more refined, with better seats, but NO COUPE? that kills it on my list. The 2 door GTP looked more stylish then the 4 door, my opinion . The coupe was 20% of the Grand Prix sales, doesn't make sense..
I've heard that the 2004 GP and Max aren't selling that well, mabye the resession? The Max is too much $$, $32k loaded for a Nissan, when one can buy a Infiniti for the same price range with a longer warranty and free loaner cars. To each their own.
I am also leary of first year GM cars, I had a 1995 aurora and 1997 GTP... they were problematic. My 2002 has been the first GM in a while that has been TROUBLE FREE, knock on wood in my 9 month now.
Historically, especially on the 1997-2003 GP, the 2nd or 3rd year GM corrects problems, IE condensation in the headlights, water on the passenger front, windshield wiper motors, NO Traction control, noisy Delco ABS system that was loud in 1997 etc.. stuff that plagued the 1997 GTP, including mine. For 1998 GM utiilzed BOSCH for the ABS/Traction and it became quieter more refined, that was a big improvement.. the ABS in my 1997 sounded like a system from the early '90's loud and intrusive. The Best radio in the 1997 was garbage as well. Thats why I will never buy a 1st year GM car again.
Besides with NO more GTP coupe that means I will never be buying another one. I will have to look at other 2 door Powerfull/Roomy FWD coupes for 2006. if any exist. None that I know of, except the UGLY Monte SS. Rumor has it GM may cancel that if sales don't pick up as well. Besides the Monte is too ugly for me.. GTP coupe looked way better.
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carguy58, from a quality standpoint the 80s were worse than the 90s for GM. The problem in the early 90s was very bland and outdated product offering. I remember in the 91-92 time frame when alot of GM's big sellers were redesigned(i.e. Park Avenue, LeSabre, Ninety-Eight, Eighty-Eight, Bonneville, Caprice, Achieva, etc.) thinking that if I were buying one of those type of cars, I'd rather own the previous generation because the new ones just weren't very appealing.
ab348 : So Bob Lutz isn't passionate about cars? The guys who designed the Corvette or the CTS aren't passionate about cars? Give me a break! Using a blanket statement like that is just plain wrong! You may not like a the GP but it performs and you can't deny that.
oldsman : I think GM definitely lost it's way in the past but the last 5 years have changed my mind about the company. I just hope it stays that way.
I think GM started getting its act together in the mid 90's and has continued to gather steam. I bought a Chevy Avalanche 15 months ago and it hasn't had a single problem except for a little bit of moisture in a fog light. The truck is just amazing.
I have a 99 Grand Am GT. This car has had a few minor problems (mostly interior), fixed under warranty. I'm hoping my new Grand Prix GT2 has fewer problems.
Believe it or not, it was my wife who insisted I get the fusion orange color. She was not happy with the sport red - too burgundy for her. So I had to order my car because there were none around on dealer's lots with the options I wanted.
3 weeks and counting.....
Dindak, Says who? My 1997 had many problems, but I still loved it anyway and thankgod they were mostly covered under warranty !! not to mention that the 1997 GP is on consumer reports used car list to avoid, the only model listed. Go to www.grandprix.net and click Grand Prix problems. These are problems reported on by owners of 1997-1999 Grand Prixs and many of those problems were FIXED for later year Grand Prixs... This is a pretty large list of problems. I can attest to them, I had alot. But GM did fix them for later year models.
On my 1997 GTP Coupe....Tire Rods went bad at 25k miles, never happened again, alternator and water pump replaced before 30k miles, one of the tire/abs sensors fell off, had to argue to get it covered under warranty. Vibration when the car was in reverse os sometimes idling. the brake line was too close to the firewall? Both headlights replaced due to moisture in them, heat shield on the catalytic converter loose, rattling, pistons that hold up the trunk went bad at only 1 yr old, automatic twinight headlights on/off sensor replaced 3x before they got it right, they would come on and off in bright daylight. Loose clips on interior door panels, rattling sounds.. apparently this is a problem of all '97'03 GP's, Oil leak at 50k miles, valve cover gaskets went bad, covered by ext. warranty, A/C Drain had to be unclogged once a year, otherwise leaked into the car, various times repairing rattles.. the W body of 1997-2003 is a RATTLE BOX compared to comparable import cars, AC Delco battery only lasted 2 yrs...
Otherwise I like the car and bought another in 2002. So far, knock on wood, troublefree.
The worst one I ever bought was a 1985 Olds Ciera with the optional 3.8L V6 that yr, many problems.. engine would accelerate/rev by itself in gear sometimes with the A/C on, talke about dangerous.. the notorious bad/peeling paint. unloaded it in 1992.
ab348, How the seats in the 04 GP equate to a lack of soul, performance and passion I will never understand??
Gunit, Our 02 Bravada has been very good although it had 2 recall visits which I did with oil changes. Otherwise trouble free. GP is trouble free now for it's first couple of months. So far so good.
Dan, nobody who worked for GM in the 60s would let uglycloth (TM Regd) *near* any of their cars. Now according to Lutz it is "richer" fabric than what went before. Excuse me if I question whether the man's much-vaunted image actually has any substance after a comment like that.
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AB348, Although GM has improved... Squeaks and rattles still plague the W body of 1997 and on, more so then the import competition. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they surface in my 2002 GTP. I will hope for the best though.
The best GM rattle and squeak free car I even owned was my 1995 aurora which even in 2001 was squeak/rattle free... i think it used the same platform of the caddilacs? Right now the best rattle/squeak free car I have had is my 2001 Infiniti I30t
The oil burning issue really burned me on that car. 2 quarts a month. someone has told me that the early Aurora and Caddy Northstar V8's burned oil at higher mileage? something to do with the limp home feature if you ran out of coolant? But supposedly the oil burnign was fixed by 1998? I wonder if any one can shed any light on that topic?
durability. Plus that car had a larger rearend than even the camaros of that era.
I have a friend who put 380,000 miles on their RWD cutlass.
That said, today's FWD cars probably last just as long as the RWD cars in regular driving..
I think Dan is right on. Performance and styling are right on with the 04 even if the seats don't suit you. Your statement is off base. There is so much raw performance that one could argue they didn't spend enough time on the details, but GP performance on it's own is better than ever and much of it's competition for that matter.