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Toyota Celica GT-S: misshift, Toyota covers the repair (despite being a driver mistake)
HOnda S2000 and Acura RSX Type-S: misshift, Honda your damn fault (you can check the various boards)
BTW, I have an '02 Camry. Only compaint is the location of the panic button on the FOB. It is too easy to hit by accident....Oh...the roof should have armour to protect against acorns!
Toyota did refuse to pay for sludged engines even with receipts of proper maintenance and I think they had to temporarily discontinue the GT-S 6-speed Celica to address the concerns with the tranny.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=& threadid=17110
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s= &threadid=10805
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s= &threadid=6578
etc...
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php? threadid=2575
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php? threadid=55717
run a search for misshift
the links have an additional space in them. Remove the space to get it to work
(Host, I know as per the rules, I shouldn't do this, I only did this to prove a quick point....and in part is the use the search function in a forum board, so just kill this post after about a day, if there's any problems...thanks)
And there is still a difference between the instances in the RSX, S2000, and even the Celica. An engine dying at 15,000 miles due to sludge is obviously not the owner's fault .. when you have high performance cars like the RSX it would be very easy to driver inexperience/error to cause a shift into second instead of 4th.
Honda puts alloys on all EX 4s and EX V6 models, and they are a dealer installed accessory for the others, though I dont see many with them. For the LX and LX V6, there is a dealer installed 'Convenience Pkg' with 16 inch alloys, wheel locks, splash guards, and cargo tray. Thats a tire upgrade for the 4, so I'd imagine it costs more on that model.
~alpha
What more than likely happened in those cases were they were participating in "spirited" driving and grabbed the wrong gear and as they let off the clutch and were accelerating the revs shot up and killed the engine.
Can you explain that statement a bit?
~alpha
The solution is...if the engine were to be replaced, then the transmission needs to be replaced also...with an automatic.
Sometimes people want to be Vin Diesel in the Fast and Furious...and then it happens.
Mu old Camry's rev limited was a fuel cut, which is the sputter you described.
43K summary
Gas consumed: 1828.434 Gallons
Cost of Gas: $2910.56
Average Economy: 23.55 MPG
Best: 34.3 MPG
Worst: 16.8 MPG
Gas Cost per mile: 6.66 cents
Maintenance Cost: $2388.28
Maintenance Cost per mile: 5.5 cents
Miles Covered: 43,670
Running Cost (Gas + Maintenance): $5298.84
Running Cost per mile: 12.13 cents
Bought in November 1999 for $27,538.
Sold in October 2002 for $16,700.
Depreciation: $10,838
Depreciation per mile: 24.8 cents
Direct Cost of Ownership: 36.93 cents per mile
Insurance approx. $600 per year for 3 years = $1800
Insurance per mile: 4.12 cents
Total Cost of Ownership: 41.05 cents per mile
Anyway, I'm not 100% fond of my Accord. It seems Honda slept when designing the transmission as well as when it came to NVH levels. I have 33K miles and some rattles are starting to come and the transmission is not the smoothest out there. Nor does it shift when I want it to. Plus, the interior materials could be better.
Anyone driven both the 2003 Accord V6 and Camry V6? How do you think Quality compares.
BTW, I'm not saying you're wrong.
NVH levels are very important. This time I may drive a used 2003 Accord to with some miles on it to see how it's holding up. Last time I bought the Accord based on Honda's long standing reputation but did not do too much research on the 6th generations problem areas.
But, I'm definately hoping they have made improvements to the 7th generation Accord in many areas.
Camry's in general have a quieter, smoother, more muted ride. the trade off with the Accord, IMHO, is that there is more road feedback that allows better driveability. now, i agree, too much noise and vibration is annoying.
I think Honda made a major leap forward in terms of quietness in this new Accord...it is *much* quieter than the last generation while preserving some road feel. i think the only notable noise on the new accord that still exists is tire noise. i would guess this is both due to the tire they chose and due to noise insulation.
is this accord as quiet as the latest camry? close...but i would still say the camry's is quieter. i think the noise level in this car is comparable to the current VW Passat---ie, very good, but not exceptional like the Camry or its Lexus siblings.
rattles/squeaks: i'm a bit scared to hear about your sunroof woes and what Honda came up with a fix. our 2003 has one minor rattle/murmur. i don't think it's the moonroof, it sounds like a ruffling sound of something rubbing against foam material. i have yet to find the source and fortunately, it's not noticeable if the radio is on. still annoying. that being said, i really have not encountered too many rattle free cars. new cars are better and in being quieter, the rattles/squeaks/extra noises are more noticeable. i've been in my friend's 1999 camry and it has rattles. i don't know if they were there from the start, but there are plenty now after 30k. miles. on the other hand, my 2000 Civic (has 29k miles) which had one major rattle fixed in its first year is still rock solid and rattle free [even its moonroof!]
as far as transmission goes, i urge to test drive the new Accord. IMHO, the new transmission is fabulous. and this is coming from a 5 spd manual trans fan. [this is primarily my wife's car] i rented the last generation Accord and totally hated the transmission. the new one is ten times better in smoothness and quietness and ability to figure out what to do on a change in slope. it is as close as i've seen a "discrete" auto get to a CVT (ie, very smooth) . that being said, i think the Camry's have, in the past, always been better shifters than the Honda (automatics)...i'd need to do a careful test drive (i've only ridden in the latest generation camry, not driven) to determine if the Camry is better or worse. but i doubt it can get much better than the new Accord's.
hope these experiences and comments help
Two very wonderful cars ... just a slightly different approach by the manufacturers.
one follow-up (in case you don't read the other Accord forum): i spoke too soon when i said the moonroof didn't rattle in my 2000 Civic. i was driving it last night and i realized that it does rattle: it isn't audible with the shade closed, but if the shade is open, there is a slight rattle. i'm going to have to try the silicon lube trick to see if i can get rid of it. then again, i only keep the shade open when i actually have the moonroof open or tilted. [in those cases, the outside noise masks any rattling sound]
i drove with our shade open this morning in the 2003 Accord no rattles. whew...hopefully, it will continue to be quiet.
The moonroof: My 00 Accord roof didn't rattle for like the 1st year either. The lube does work, but it only lasts for a few months and the squeaks/rattles come back.
Besides, all I need is one car to drive with about 10K miles on it. Otherwise, I'll probably go with Toyota.
for all of the 2002 model year we had a total of 3 2001/2002 accords traded in. (out of 4000 deals)
Reality is, lemon buybacks do get sold thru the dealers after the manufacturer tries to fix the problems. What else are they going to do? Junk the car? I doubt it. Other manufacturer's sell their lemon buybacks thru dealers, Honda isn't any different.
Again, I'm looking for a Accord next summer, I think that is plenty of time for someone to trade in a 2003 Accord if no demo's are available.
And I don't live in the midwest, I'm in the northeast and when my car was in for warranty repair they already had a used Pilot for sale(or a demo) with a few thousand miles on it. Of course, the dealer's still trying to sell it for MSRP.
I imagine some lemons may be kept by the manufacturer for research, but certainly not all.
My choice between the two came down to which dealer would give me the better deal; they are right accross the street from each other. Conclusion: My new 2003 Accord just arrived this morning at the dealer!
Problem is trying to find something sporty & peppy with decent fuel efficiency, larger than a 2 seater seems hard to do.
Have narrowed decision between 2003 Honda Accord 4 cylinder 5 speed, 2003 Toyota Camry SE 4 cylinder 5 speed and V6 Auto.
Test drove the SE Camry 5 speed and after 65 mph in 5th on a flat road, pressing accelerator to floor had no resulting increase in speed. Anyone have this problem?
Looks like to compare Accord 5 speed to Camry I have to bump the Camry to a V6 and loose the 5 speed.... but this bumps price and drops fuel ecomomy.
Anyone have advice / suggestions here?
I have to caution you on the Honda maintenance/service dept, though...if you like Toyota's, you'll be in for a rude awakening when it comes to the Honda guys. My experiences with them have been pretty bad. I wouldn't call them rude, but it's as if Honda doesn't train them to be people-friendly.
So, it just depends on your luck with dealerships.
what do you mean by non-interfering???
I'm planning to buy a new car and plan to get the new 2003 Accord or a Camry.
To Accord and Camry Owners, with your best knowledge and experience, Would you please fill out the following maintenance comparison charts.
Thank you very much for your help and best wish to your driving
-Howard
To compare apples and apples, the longer oil change interval on the Camry is 7,500 miles. A non-interference engine design means that if the timing belt breaks, the engine just stops running, you tow it in and have it repaced. An interference engine design means that if the timing belt breaks (new accords use a chain), the engine is toast.
As for spark plugs, radiator fluid, trans. fluid, etc. most of that on most new cars now are long-life and don't need changing until 60,000 to 120,000 miles (I still think that doing it more often would be better for the vehicle, but we'll not get into that discussion). Tire rotation at most dealers and corner shops all run about the same at about $20. New tires depend on the quality of the tires you want to buy and the size of the wheels you have. They can run anywhere from $70 to $300 each, and depends on what you prefer. As for transmissions, both Honda and Toyota are pretty much known for as "bulletproof" a transmission as there is in the industry with a couple of exceptions by both manufacturers, but don't include the accord or camry for the most part.
The Camry will give you a bit more room to spread out in with the drawback of a bit less horsepower and road feel. They tune the suspension of the camry to isolate the occupants as much as possible, which to many means that it is a bit softly sprung. The powertrain warranty is a bit longer on the Toyota, but that is arguably not a huge issue with the quality of both of these automobiles.
Styling is a personal issue and I don't want to get into a flame war here about something that is in the eye of the beholder.
As for the post earlier about flooring a camry in 5th gear with a manual trans., the 5th gear is an overdrive gear, meant for optimal gas milage, reduced engine speed, and reduced noise. If you're passing, use the manual trans. the way it's designed and downshift to pass.
If you're looking for a sportier feeling toyota with a bit more room than your celica, look at either a Camry SE (either manual or automatic) or a Solara. They're both tuned both in their transmissions and suspensions to be a bit sportier feeling.
Hope this helps.
Any "pro-honda" for maintenance comparison ??
Does anyone have ideas?
The resale is a wash, I think the accord may edge out the camry, but since I wanted a 5MT, it didn't really matter...
Reliability... wash
Safety... Accord wins, hands down... I compared an Accord EX I4 5MT to a Camry SE. On the Camry I got a appearance package. I don't think it comes with SAB, ABS, or EBT. The accord had all these features standard on the EX.
What it boiled down to was that while I disliked the rear styling of the Accord, the interior styling, safety features, and value won me out. I would have been about 22,6 for an MSRP on a SE loaded to a EX Accord(security system, ABS, SAB, alloys. Not including a in-dash 6 disc changer, but the SAB addon comes w/ curtains which is only on the V6 Accord) While the EX Accord was an MSRP of 21,960. I'm spending about 700 for factory foglights and spoiler later(maybe) so it pretty much breaks even. The biggest problem in my area, was that no one had an SE in 5MT much less "fully loaded" w/ all the features I wanted.
So I got an Accord. I say test drive both. then buy the one you like, both great vehicles. I like the "sportiness" of the Accord, and the interior, but the Camry looks a little cleaner IMHO. they are pretty well matched for HP and TQ, and both have enough power for normal driving. Wish you luck.
Toyota typical uses non-inteference (some engines are interference), but for the Camry, non-interference. This means the opposite. In the chance of the belt or chain breaking, there's a slight remote change you get damage. Most of the time, put a new belt or chain, and you're ready to go.
interference design has the inherent ability to produce more power.