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If you worked for any of them, marketing can't be blamed for their collapses....actually, maybe marketing did too good a job
You convinced me, but your insurance agent might have some different data concerning horsepower and it's influence on driving habits, speed, and ultimately accidents and injuries. Naturally, Volvo owners are always an exception to the statistics...
By the way, be sure to buckle up in that golf cart (grin)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The reason for this post is that where safety is concerned, Volvo has a reputation for safety. Patents for 3-point safety harnesses, Side Impact Protection System (SIPS) and Whiplash Injury Protection System (WIPS) immediately come to mind. Taking an idividual crash test result as an overall indicator of relative crash-safety is a bad mistake. As volvomax posted, Volvo is one of only two manufacturers that have an active program to research improvements in overall crash safety of their cars. I have observed an increasing focus on Volvo's part on strengthening the roof area on 850s through to the current S60 - A, B, C, and D pillars have become larger with each successive model. With the S60, the use of boron steel was added to further increase the roof strength. None of these steps will be recognized in the crash tests of either NHTSA or IIHS, because they don't flip the car on its roof. However, real-life accidents seem to increasingly end up with the roof being involved.
Net, net, many Volvo owners buy a Volvo for its reputation as a car for which the manufacturer has focused on safety. Volvo has a challenge to add higher output engines, higher capacity brakes, handling improvements, etc., while still maintaining the foundation of safety. So far, I think that Volvo has met that challenge. I have been completely satisfied with my S60 AWD. For me, the S60 AWD has mechanical reliability, performance (accelerating, braking, emergency handling, etc.) as well as overall safety.
Pegleg - Bigger than any of those companies ever was and still is, thanks for playing & posting.
Phils - Insurance rates have me puzzled. An '01 S80 T6 is more to insure than an '04 S60 2.5T even though (at least crash rating wise) the S80 is a notch above. I agree with your assessment of safety, looks like rates have more to do with cost to repair than accident risk.
Especially want to thank you for your price info. Dealers here seem reluctant to bargain beyond 'house' prices regardless of incentives.
A-V-fan - Could it have been an Acura since a crunched 'A' could look like an 'H'? Are you suggesting manufacturers do a flip roof skid test? I think we're doing that now in the middle-east. Tire makers might lobby against it as for some strange reason they feel their product is more road capable than any roof. Can't help but wonder if Honda will strengthen their roof now or sleep soundly on their H-pillars.
I heard that Atlanta was a distribution point for Volvo(?). I drove down there and found a huge inventory of 2.5t. They hit the price before I finished a cup of coffee. Good hunting.
gbrozen, there are several cars that I would rather be in than a Honda in an accident, Mercedes, BMW and Volvo come to mind.
Seen too many crushed Hondas, sorry.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
It's either that or I lease a Kenworth. Volvo makes semi's too, what a tough decision.
On the other hand, go for the Kenworth! Or the Volvo rig. They do make really NICE ones. Some are even more luxurious than the cars.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
same horsepower with automatic tranny?
-Moda R4 (not R3, as stated above) for $209 each
-SSR GT1 for $339 each
-Mille Miglia Action for $199 each
-At Italia Inox for $199 in Bright Silver; $259 in stainless steel
(All of the above are 17" rims.)
The ASA KA3s are NOT approved by TireRack.
You should still call TireRack on your own to confirm. I'm just happy that there are options other than the OEM Pegasus rims.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
With some brake torque, most average drivers could be close to the 7.0 number (auto). The 6.0 - 6.5 number (manual) for the average driver will be much harder to hit. It involves proper timing, quite a bit of practice, clutch drop at about 4500 rpm.
I would argue that two average drivers would be very close to a tie in auto v. manual.
Key word is AVERAGE. If you are a gear head, then the manual is probably your choice no matter what. If not, don't write off the automatic, without more of your own research/test runs.
What's the going rate in the states for a manual R with premium, touring, and climate packages?
Been considering an S60R but need to know the going rate there compared to military sales in europe.
What's the governor set at on the R?
Sapphire with Light Taupe leather, touring premium & climate packages; 18" Pegasus wheels; 6-spd. The MSRP is $42,270 and the invoice is $39,461.00. Offered it for $40,461.00
Personally, since we plan on owning this car for the long term, it doesn't make sense to quibble over an extra 3 bucks per tank. A leaser might think otherwise. One more reason to never buy used...
-Scott
min 91 octane.
Its in the warranty book.
CONS-
1. Steering does not center back well after making a turn at low speed.
2. Sun roof has a fair amount noise when closed but curtain is open.
3. Engine starts growling close to 4k rpm and above.
4. Typical 5 cylinder vibes at idle.
5. lacks interior nooks for cell phone etc.
6. A pain to dry after washing... so many body seams retain water. TETHYS wheels take forever to wipe down.
7. I'm surprised the wheels don't get out of balance with the amount of brake dust... what is up with that?
8. Don't like the headlights on all the time. If you choose just the running lights they will stay on after you turn off the engine and leave the car. Seems very odd.
9. The ride is a bit rough at low speeds if roads are not perfectly smooth.
10. Hesitation when accelerating from stop.
11. Buying premium gas sucks!
12. Cannot read the digital dash well. Not well lit or angled for brightness.
PROS-
1. Excellent engine power from 2k-3.5k rpm
2. Runs smooth as silk 65-80+ mph. Very quiet except for sun roof as mentioned above.
3. Transmission shifts perfectly, smooth and quiet. Geartronic is fun and the shifter is perfectly placed.
4. Sport seats are comfortable and keep you in place on curved roads.
6. Radio sound is pretty good, but takes a bit to understand controls. Hat shelf speakers are great.
7. Brakes work well and have a good pedal feel.
8. Handling is great. Very little body lean.
9. I'm 6' tall and there's plenty of head and leg room, but don't expect to ride anyone larger than a midget in the back seat.
10. Avg fuel mileage is about 23-25. I don't expect to see the claimed 30mpg unless coasting down hill.
I live in the Boston area, where we can get a considerable amount of snow. I've always driven FWD vehicles with All Season tires and have never had any problems. I also like the idea of not having to change tires twice a year, and thus would prefer the All Season tires over the High Performance tires.
Instead of buying a second set of rims and snow tires for the S60R, I was considering just buying a good set of All Season tires and putting them on the original rims. The question then is what to do with the original tires. Sell them? Put them back on during one or two Summers, knowing that since they only last about 20k miles, they'll probably have worn out by then, and then I can just stick with the All Season tires from then on.
Any thoughts on this idea?
All season tires will compromise the R's performance.
Like the M3 and S4 Audi the R needs its sticky high performance tires to be effective.
All season tires have less grip than the P Zeros on the R. If driven aggressively the R on all seasons will spend most of its time w/ the DSTC system going crazy.
Picture a track star running in dress shoes.
Also, by their nature sticky, high performance tires don't live long. They give up longevity, and the harder rubber compounds that requires for handling and grip.
Best advice, get a set of snow tires.
After having P-Zeros, XGT Z4 Pilots, and Dunlops I've stumbled across the BEST performance tire I've ever had and it happens to be an all season tire in the Micheline Pilot Sport A/S. It's simply grippier and the fact that it has long tread life is a bonus. Pilot Sport A/S tires start at Z speed ratings and GO UP from there. Michelin calls them their most advanced speed rated tire ever and my experience with them and many other Volvo owners on Volvo boards echos this sentiment. I never thought I would see the day where I could buy Y-rated all season tires with a 400 treadware rating.
Check around and you'll find MANY happy Pilot Sport A/S owners running these tires on high-pressure turbo cars. They give better launches, are stickier in the corners, and have good grip in wet stuff. I couldn't be happier!
Unless you plan to spend your time on a glass smooth road going in left circles all day these are the tires for you.
Thanks.
-rollie
rdollie@att.net
After years of using P-Zeros, Pilot XGT Z4s, and Dunlop Sports I've stumbled across the best tires I've ever had in Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires. They simply have more grip, launch better, and have nearly twice the tread life. The minimum speed rating is Z and they go up from there. Michelin claims they are their most advanced speed rated tire and my experience and that of MANY happy Volvo owners echoed on Volvo forums seems to support the claim.
Who would have ever seen the day when all seasons would run in W and Y speed ratings with a 400 treadwear rating? I couldn't be happier!
Thanks.
-rollie
rdollie@att.net
For the average driver they will work well.
However, for snow they won't.
Also, in the ultimate grip dept they won't come close to what the P Zero Rosso or The new Pilot P2 will do.
A very high performance car is designed for two things, speed and handling. For this you need the best, stickiest tire possible. Yes, you could get by with less, but why buy a performance car then?
Whats the point???
Thanks.
-rollie
rdollie@att.net
p.s. - Don't take my word for it. Check the posts on some of the non-Edmunds forums and you will find the same claims from many performance enthusiasts.
I got Enkei CDR9 rims for about $140 each, including mounting/balancing. You will need a wheel installation kit (make sure that DT orders that, too....it's $40). The stock lug bolts will not fit the Enkei rims.
The rims look great, IMO, and the tires feel pretty decent. Not as good as the P-Zeros, but still pretty decent.
If you have questions, call Mike Mockbee (952.898.2399), Manager at Discount Tire in Burnsville, MN.
I didn't find the catagory "Prices Paid" for Volvo, so posting it here. -Thanks.
-Niv
My gut tells me it's a good deal, and if it is I need to snap it up ASAP. But I wanted to check with the pros on this board first. Thanks!
P.S. Don't mind my username. It was created *before* I test drove the Passat! lol.
-Niv
I'm sure the pricing resulted from the 3k factory to dealer incentive, which expired Oct. 31. I don't know if it's been renewed. If you saw the ad in today's paper, I'd bet it has been renewed.
Davanat - Let us know which one you pick.
Now I'm gonna check out the Mitsu Galant, apparently redesigned for 2004. I have a Galant now and love it. Thought I'd want a European car, but I guess I shouldn't mess with a good thing. Thanks again!
I got a quote of $39,356 for a 300 HP S60R with the Premium, Touring, and Climate Packages. I also got a quote of $37,601 for a 184 HP 325 xi with all the options needed to make it comparable to the S60R, e.g., Premium and Sport Packages, Alarm, Homelink, etc.
So, any thoughts as to which is the better deal?
Thanks.
Let's face it, if it wasn't for the spinning prop on the hood the xi would be anywhere near $37000.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/bil/story/0,2789,387937,00.html
Some highlights:
470 ft. lbs.
500 HP
187 MPH
Pirelli P Zero- 235/35 19
Cool!!!