Jeep Wrangler

tidester · May 2003

Tom, I watched for you to get post #9000 all afternoon.

Yes, but who will be #10,000? :-)

tidester, host

tsjay · May 2003

Yep, Terry, I was waiting for my chance.

Don't forget, next time you email me, use my new address. It's in my profile.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

theronrohr · May 2003

Thanks for all the positive feedback jeeping folks. I didn't realize that review was so long until I posted it! I thought hungry valley was a great resource - imagine a state park specially maintained for off-road fun! Plus it was a great way to get out of the city.

guy21 - I like the sound of that 22.5 mpg on the 2.4L. I think the mileage is one of the biggest problems for me. (I guess it always has to be something...) It might be neat if they had a diesel in the wrangler. I was reading there might be one in the Liberty next year.

-theron

tsjay · May 2003

My friend, you will have a very hard time justifying the purchase of a Wrangler for any practical reasons.

They are small, rough riding, noisy, poor-handling, gas guzzling vehicles by comparison to other vehicles.

The one thing they have above any other vehicle is FUN! They are completely off the scale in that category... nothing comes close to them.

So, stop analyzing and getcha one! Have the time of your life!. Take years off of your age.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

leafchild · May 2003

Hi Tom,

Rear main leak??? I think you may have either misunderstood my post or be replying to somebody else's post thinking it was mine.

I was just inquiring if anybody had an opinion/experience with the scheduled maintenance service DC offers through the dealership. Knock on wood...no problems that need fixin' on my beloved,...yet.

Perhaps you DID give me your opinion regarding dealership service indirectly though. Definitely something to keep in mind. The guys in Service know me from my frequent appearance in the Parts department. I'm sure they've figured that I'd be eager to drop what I can afford to pamper my baby.

tsjay · May 2003

Yoko, it was smurf6 that was told that her Jeep has a leaking rear main. Sorry bout that.

Hey, Alzheimer's isn't ALL bad. You get to meet new people every day.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep and at least one old person today?

barresa62 · May 2003

barresa62 "Jeep Owners: Photo Gallery" May 31, 2003 12:54pm

Stephen

barresa62 · May 2003

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290041951

Stephen

mac24 · May 2003

Interesting post. Here's the link to the "guy" on eBay selling the wheels.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- - - - gory=42611&item=2417294213

More interestingly, the pic of his Jeep seems to be your Jeep.

His Jeep: http://www.barrychevrolet.com/ebay/barrys/rubiconwheels.jpg, which has the same destination as the link that you posted.

Even more interestingly, his name appears to be your name.....Denver Morford.

So, your statement, "There is a guy on Ebay selling the Rubicon wheels and rock guards at a great price. That's where I got mine. I think it really made the look." rings a little hollow.

I don't have any problem with you selling stuff here (although the hosts might), but pretending to be someone else to boost your own product sales is hardly honest.

It pissed me off that you'd try to do that here, which is why I bothered to post this. How do you feel about people who try to deceive you? It's not that you're selling stuff, it's the underhanded way that you went about it. All you needed to say was, "I'm selling some MOAB wheels on eBay".

bcmalibu99ls · May 2003

Do you take it to BC? If yes, what are your top 5 most favorite spots in BC to jeep, and why? Thank you!

bored · May 2003

Hi! Just wanted to chime in, I frequently read the topic, it's interesting to see all of these people crazy over an automobile! Of course, I love Jeeps too, so I completely UNDERSTAND! Also, someone should tape up Tom's big mouth, he talks too much... :-D (He knows I'm playing with him) He's also a very helpful person, and should be the next Member Spotlight.

And to answer to Tidester's question... #10,000 will most likely be Tom (tsjay) again.

barresa62 · May 2003

I've only been to BC w/the Jeep once back in Feb to go skiing @ Whistler/Blackcomb. I'd love to come up and go offroad somewhere.... Vancouver is my one of my old haunts. Spent a lot of time up there in the early 90's.

Stephen

tidester · May 2003

I don't have any problem with you selling stuff here (although the hosts might)...

Indeed we do have a problem with selling stuff here. It is a violation of the Terms of Use we all agreed to when we signed on to the Town Hall.

tidester, host

bcmalibu99ls · May 2003

That's why I want a Ruby - BC is so huge, almost 3 times as big as California, and amazing mountains and views are all over the place. There's so much to explore here, I am so excited! And I finally got a job recently which pays enough to save some $$$, so, hopefully, in a year or so I'll join the club

barresa62 · May 2003

Cool...that's great news. Maybe you could also come to the Seattle area and do some of the trails in the Cascades or Olympics. I haven't done any yet but am gettin' itchy to do so. :-)

Stephen

tsjay · May 2003

I guess it is much more important to just enjoy something than to understand why you enjoy it, but I have been doing some thinking lately about why I am so crazy about wheelin' Thelma Jane.

Maybe, if I do a half way decent job of explaining why I love it so much, someone who has never had his/her Jeep offroad will decide to give it a try (OK, I know, not you, BamaTazz).

Before I get into this, I will say again for the record, Thelma Jane was the very most FUN vehicle that I ever owned, even BEFORE I ever took her offroad. I owned her for 14 months before I could get up the courage to risk getting her dirty or, God forbid, scratched.

I can understand why you guys that never wheel your Jeeps still love them so much.

But, if you really, really want to have some fun... GO WHEELIN'!

Yeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwww!!!

Since the first time I ever took Thelma Jane offroad, I have had a new respect for her. I was just blown away by her capabilities; by the places I had driven her through. She was bone stock, I did NOT disconnect the front sway bar, and I did NOT air down the tires, but she still went through places I would have never dreamed possible.

So, here are a few of the things that I guess make me so crazy about wheelin':

1. Time with Ross Allen

It's a day spent with my very best friend in the whole world, my grand dog, Ross Allen. Yep, he loves wheelin' just as much as I do, and he goes with me every weekend. I have the back seat out of the Jeep, and I have some blankets piled up in the cargo area floor for him to lie on.

2. Outdoors

It's a day spent in the woods. I love to be outdoors, and to spend a whole day wheelin' is a joyful experience. In the spring, summer, and fall, I am wheelin' Thelma topless and doorless, so I am in the fresh air, even though I am ridiing in a vehicle. Even when the hard top and doors are on, it's still a day spent outdoors, and we take frequent breaks, so I am out in the open air a good part of the time.

3. Sense of Accomplishment

There is a great satisfaction in driving Thelma Jane through a tough spot and making it through. There is satisfaction in learning to drive offroad, slowly developing skills that allow you to try more difficult places. There is satisfaction in making modifications to the Jeep and then seeing the results out on the trails.

4. Fellowship

The folks you meet out on the trails in their Jeeps are the nicest folks you will ever meet in your life. Same with the folks you meet on the Internet in the Jeep web sites. It just seems like Jeepers are a very happy, friendly, and helpful bunch of people who share a common bond, the love of Jeepin'.

There are probably other factors that contribute to my enjoyment, but I don't want to tax my brain too hard in trying to identify every aspect of wheelin'. All I know is that I LOVE it!

Please take the time to check out my photo albums in itsajeep.org, if you haven't seen my pics. I think you will see that I am having a BLAST!

Here's a link to itsajeep. Please come to the chat room there also. Good bunch of folks frequent that place every night.

http://itsajeep.org

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

larry18 · June 2003

Tom missed the thrill of exploring new areas! It is always amazing what can be found over the next mountain.

Looks like Camp Jeep is filling fast. The kayaking sessions are already full. Everyone who owns a Jeep should experience Camp Jeep at least once. Lots of fun and some great comraderie!

Larry18

ndovaras · June 2003

Yes I watched the video several timesis there some trick to make the header bar of the soft-top (at windshield) fit snug enough to close the two front latches? The soft-top went on easily but I cant seem to get the front latches to reach the latch openings on the windshield no matter how hard I press. There is no issue as far as the header reaching the windshield, I just cant lock it down. It seems like the rubber strip (seal) on the top of the windshield is making it impossible to lock down. Has anyone had this problem? The Jeep is new and this is the first time Im installing the soft-top. Perhaps I need to park in the sun for a few hours to soften up that rubber strip?

Any ideas appreciated.

Thanks,

ND

guy21 · June 2003

Did you attach the rear sail panels before attempting to position the latches? If so, try doing it the other way around. Match up the windshield latches to the front openings (don't clamp down yet) then go to the back and attach the sail panels under the lip. Then clamp down the latches. I think this is mentioned in the manual somewhere. The manual also recommends that it be over 45 degrees before attempting to put the top up.

ndovaras · June 2003

Guy21,
Thanks for responding. Yes, I left the rear sail panels free, I even put a blanket over the front hood and lifted the entire soft top over the front windshield and still could not get the header to fit snug enough to reach the latch openings. I'm about 1/4inch away. I'm thinking that the windshield seal is just not soft enough yet (50 degrees outside) and is holding me back. It still seems like I should be able to get it by standing in the jeep and pressing down from above. ND

guy21 · June 2003

Make sure that you aren't hung up going over Bow 2. This happened to me once, there is a lot of stuff that has to line up intenally. As a final thought, I measured the length of my top fabric (with the top up) from the gap at the windshield header to the seam over Bow 2. Following the contour of the top from a flat spot on the windshield (maybe 3" in from the corner) mine measured 33 1/2 inches. Good luck.

tsjay · June 2003

Forgive me if I am telling you something that is obvious to you. I don't have a soft top, but the hard top has the same kind of latches, I believe.

Here's my thought... are you sure the latches are completely open when you attempt to make the connection? You know, that part that goes into the hole above the windshield: is it hanging down all the way?

I know my latches for the hard top seem like they have two positions for "open." There is open, and then there is OPEN. I hope I am making sense, but maybe you have already checked for this.

Good luck!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

geepers · June 2003

I don't have one of the newer tops but from experience with the old ones and a new Bestop I just put on, the warmer the fabric, the easier it will be. Bestop recommends 72 degrees or above. Park it in the sun like you thought if you're still having trouble. I don't care what anyone says, Jeep soft tops have always been a wrestling match for me.

I saw a Lexus next to me do some kind of transformer thing. The trunk opens, the metal bonnet lifts up and slides into the trunk and the trunk closes. All while the guy was talking on the cell phone. Weird.

ndovaras · June 2003

Guys, thanks for responding. I did some quick checking.

Guy21  I double-checked and there is nothing in the way. I even watched the soft-top portion of the video again and I seem to have things correct. With the soft-top fabric draped over the front windshield I can clearly see all the bows and frame assembly. Even if I stand in the jeep pushing down on the header I still cant get the latch to reach the latch opening on the windshield.

TSJAY  Thanks for the thought.. Im open to any suggestion. I know exactly what you mean because the latch on the soft top did get caught between the header and the windshield when I first raised the soft top. I had it open but as the latch swings free during installation it can easily swing itself into the wrong place. Ive rechecked this each time I try to secure the header and am sure this isnt the cause of my pain.

GEEPERS  I agree. I think this has to do with a brand new top and 50-60 degree weather. The fabric has never been stretched and is fighting me. This is my 3rd Wrangler and I agree that the soft-top has always been an effort. This is part of owning a Jeep. Im just surprised because it has come so far since my 1985 with all those snaps. My 1995 required me to drill holes in the windshield frame to install the header bar. Of course I didnt realize this until the hard top was removed.

I may have to do what I never like to do. Ask the dealer. Ill drive it down next Saturday and let them show me. Im getting old.

Any other ideas appreciated. Are there any folks out there who had this problem when they installed their soft top for the first time?

Thanks,

ND

geepers · June 2003

I'm not the off-roader tsjay is but I like that the Jeep can get me places where I won't find a lot of other people. My dog Smokey and I enjoy solitude while hiking so that Smokey can run around free and do dog things. Lots of sniffin' and...well, you know.

First time I put him in the Jeep I tumbled the rear seat forward and he learned to rest his front elbows on the seat while looking ahead between the two front seats. Now he HAS to have the seat there or he's lost. Then the first time we went camping I loaded all the gear in the back and put Smokey in the passenger's seat which I thought would be a treat for him. Before I even got the door closed he was in the back on top of all the gear. Had to transfer everything to the front. We had a great week hiking and driving the Cascades of Oregon.

Yep, a dog is always rareing to go.

jbwatts · June 2003

Hi guys,

First of all, I would just like to say this discussion board was very helpful when I bought my second Jeep Wrangler back in May, 2001. I didn't post anything back then, but just reading the commentary helped with my decision.

Well, I was wondering if any of you have the soft top slider windows. I have a 2001 Wrangler with a black soft top and I am concerned about the colors not matching if I purchase the sliders from quadratec.com.

If any of you have info regarding this, I would appreciate your input.

Thanks
Jeff

tsjay · June 2003

The only person that I know for sure that has the sliders is tonkadave, and he seems to have dropped out of site. I think he was happy with his. Maybe he still reads the posts in here and will respond.

Glad you finally posted, and I hope that you will continue. The more posts, the better. Also glad that this message board was a benefit to you back when you were Jeep shopping.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

shill3 · June 2003

I think that the temps are a big part of the problem. I know that if it is under 70 degrees, the top can be nearly impossible to get on. Ahh, it's June, just leave it off! ; )

erickpl · June 2003

I took the top down the first time on Friday. It was 10:00 and it was dark. Not recommended.

It is a pain to get the plasticy clips off above the doors. But getting it down, I had a hard time getting it to lay flat enough, but I finally got it.

Putting it up was a bit easier, especially in the daylight!, but I had problems getting the front to line up with the windshield. My problem was the nylon webbed strap that runs along the 3rd bow. It was wrapped around part of the bow and made it shorter. You may want to check that as well.

-Paul

dewars · June 2003

Well now that we have this conversation going about tops, I'll throw this out.
What do you put on your soft top to keep it soft new looking. Mine sits in the sun at work and I would like to be able to treat it with something to keep it from drying out too much.

dewars

barresa62 · June 2003

Good question! I'd be curious as to suggestions as well. :-)

Stephen

wheelsdown · June 2003

I use 303 Protectant.It is basically a sunscreen. I have only been able to buy it at local boat shops. Cost is about $1.00 an ounce depending on the size you buy. Six ounces lasts me a year. Works well on my top, tires (protects without making them look treated), and keeps the plastic parts from fading (like flares) It's advertised as SPF 30 for your stuff. Try www.303-products.com

wheelsdown · June 2003

I just took a look at their site. They actually call it SPF 40 for your stuff. They have a lot of really good information on all their products.

Terry

dewars · June 2003

Thanks for the information. I will pick some up today!

dewars

shill3 · June 2003

What do you use for the inside fabrics and plastics when they sit in the summer sun? I have sunk to putting a towel over my steering wheel so that I can actually touch it in July! Might try one of those terry-cloth steering wheel covers while its parked, but I think that I prefer the look of a towel.

skwirl60646 · June 2003

Just wondered why Jeep doesn't make the slide windows an available option (if not standard) w/ soft tops? I have to figure almost everyone would order it that way.

mtngal · June 2003

My dog also loves to go in the jeep because that means we're heading for a trail somewhere (even if it is only an abandoned logging road a few miles away). I have a hard top (and no back seat) so I don't worry too much about securing him properly in the back. I know I should, but I don't go anywhere with him where I would worry about rolling it. If I went topless I would definitely be looking for ways of securing him properly. Tom - how do you do it with Ross Allen when you are topless?

I received my pink slip yesterday, so it is now official. My Noble Black Steed is ours totally! Now if I could only get that (hated) Taco paid down, so I can get rid of it...

I haven't done much on the trails around Tehachapi, but it is a beautiful area, and one I'd like to explore more.

Leafchild asked about what I use for maps. For Jawbone Canyon I used both the SoCal AAA Kern County map and the Sequoia National Forest map. They are both very good, though the national forest map doesn't cover the whole route.

I find the SoCal AAA maps are excellent for getting around, especially when you are stopped on the I-15 around Baker, CA, on a Memorial weekend. Unfortunately, this time we were in the Taco and couldn't take advantage of the dirt roads.

barresa62 · June 2003

Yes, thanks for the tip about the 303 Protectorant. :-)

Stephen

bcmalibu99ls · June 2003

For 2003, JD Power reports an industry average of 133 problems per 100 new vehicles. Jeep has 146 problems, which means 1.46 problems per vehicle, which is not terribly bad (depends on the problem, of course). Jeep is ahead of the following makes: Subaru, Mazda, Mitsu, Saturn, Saab, Mini, Kia, Landrover, Hummer.

DC as a corporation beat even VW, believe it or not, but is below GM and Ford

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028

tsjay · June 2003

Ross Allen is a very laid back kind of guy, and I don't have to worry about him jumping out. He lies there on his blankets enjoying the ride.

When I go through any really tough spots where I know that Thelma Jane is going to bounce a lot or lean way over, Ross Allen is not in the Jeep. I put him on his leash and have someone in the group babysit him until I get through the bad place. He isn't a real happy camper during those times, because he wants to be with grandpa, but I take no chances with my best bud.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bamatazz · June 2003

Sorry I havent posted inawhile.. Been busy around here.
  First I wanna welcome all the new jeepers on the board Good to have ya. Keep Posting!

Got Tazz all fixed. They replaced the hood from the hail damage. The guy didnt charge me as much as the Insurance paid me. So.. i got ahead $300.
Tazz LOOKS brand new with his new hood.
I am VERY plaesed with it.
Also replaced the factory Speakers (polk audio-front)( Alpine for back).
  I had a Kenwood amp installed as well.
Tazz is ROCKIN now.
  Gots more plans this next year.

Keep JEEPIN'
BAMA
Rolll Tide

jbwatts · June 2003

Thanks for the info Tsjay. I hope I find out soon because it's starting to get pretty annoying with the rain coming in the Jeep. My soft top window was sliced and my stereo was stolen recently. I just can't get over that some creep was able to sit in my Jeep with the alarm blaring and no one was around to hear it. Oh, well, I guess you're just asking for trouble when you install an after-market stereo in a Jeep.

Maybe I'll just buy the slider windows with the hopes that they will match and I'll let you guys know how they work out.

Jeff

leafchild · June 2003

Thanks for your reply. I have both those maps so I should be set. Now all I have to do is wait until I have another day off....

tsjay · June 2003

Hey, Jeep Buds, I have moved Ross Allen's and Thelma Jane's web pages to Earthlink.

Here are the new links:

http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/raj.html

and

http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/thelma.html

If you have never checked 'em out, please do so. I added a page 2 to Thelma's web page back on 5/9/03. I am planning to expand it some more.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · June 2003

I just looked at Ross Allen's page (again) - you've added some things since I was last there (which was quite a while ago). You can tell where my priorities really lie. As much as I love my Noble Black Steed, it doesn't hold a candle to a soft,warm puppy with loving eyes.

billy318ti · June 2003

Hey hows it going. I've been searching for a jeep for a few days now and i need a little helP. One question i have is, is the 4 cyl more likely to have more problems then the 6, because of the small engine and heavy weight. Is the 6 also more fun to drive. Also, i've heard that 95's are more fun to drive then the 97's and up, also more reliable. I'm looking at 95's 97 and 98 models. I'd prefer the 6 cyl but not to sure if i can afford it. Thanks a lot for the help!

barresa62 · June 2003

than me but I'll chime in anyhow. I would say that the 97' to current are more fun to drive both offroad & onroad than the YJ version, i.e the 95' model you refer to. It's also easier to upgrade to larger tires/wheels w/the TJs (97' to current). One of the major changes that improved offroad & onroad performance over the YJs was the switch to coil springs from leaf springs. The interior was improved considerably, especially the dashboard. I would also go w/the 6cyl as the 4cyl has to struggle w/the weight and brick like aerodynamics. Consequently, the overall fuel economy is not that much better w/the 4 cyl. I would also stick w/(pardon the pun)5spd manual over the automatic, regardless of engine choice. I don't know the overall record of reliability difference between the 4cyl & 6cyl. I do know that the 6cyl has shown itself to be quite reliable over the years. Hope this helps.

Stephen

tsjay · June 2003

Welcome!

I think the reliability of the 4.0 I-6 and the 2.5 I-4 are equal, both being very durable engines. There is a big difference in the power, however, and the 4.0 is a much better choice for any highway driving. Around town and on the trails, I would just as soon have one as the other.

Now who in the world told you the 95's and earlier models were more fun to drive than the 97's and up???? The TJ's (97 and up) have coil springs all the way around, and the YJ's (87 - 95 Wranglers) had leaf springs. The ride is MUCH rougher with the leaf springs, and the articulation (flex) on the trails is not as good. Go for a TJ, if at all possible! Drive one of each over some rough roads, and you will see what I mean about ride quality. Drive one of each on some tough trails, and you will see what I mean about flex.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · June 2003

Another thought about the 6 cylinder vs. the 4 - A Wrangler has little insulation so it is a noisy vehicle on the road. Think about driving on a freeway with the engine wound up (4 cylinder) and what it will sound like as opposed to a much quieter engine not working so hard (the 6). If you do much highway driving at all (I do a whole bunch), go with the 6.

I have a '98 and find it reasonably comfortable for a daily driver (which it was for a while but isn't now). I remember test driving a '91 once and quickly deciding that it would not work at all for a daily driver.

I like driving a 5 speed - much more fun - but there are those off-roaders who prefer autos (less likely to spin your wheels, something you have to be very careful about with a 5 speed). So that's personal preference.

davids1 · June 2003

I must defend my 95 Wrangler against all these YJ bashers (Just kidding). Actually, I can't disagree with anything anybody has said about the differences between the YJ and the TJ.

When I was in the market, about a year ago, I had two major criteria: 1) Price 2) Leg room.

To meet criteria 1 I had to look at 95 and earlier as I did not want to spend more than $5,000. To meet criteria 2 I also had to look at 95 and earlier as the 97 and up (TJ) version has absolutely no leg room. At 6'-5", it makes a big difference. The wrangler actually had more leg room than my wife's 2000 Windstar (AKA Crapstar).

I found a 95 Rio Grande that had been adult owned and maintained for the right price and I bought it. I actually had to buy it from a dealer because the day I found it the owner traded it. Funny story, I may have to share it someday.

So, make sure you know what you want/need. Drive a bunch of them (don't buy the first one you look at). Understand the market. When you find the one you want, buy it. Have fun.

Jeep Wrangler

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