Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

surfing49 · December 2005

Can you explain what a OTD price is? Also, I received an Internet price quote from a dealer with a 72-hour life span, even though I explained that I wouldn't be buying until early January. He also included a "$750 locate fee" - any idea what that is - sounds bogus to me!

jsylvester · December 2005

Last time I looked for a vehicle, the dealer had both new and used cars on the lot that were not in their on-line inventory - some of them were quite aggressively priced.

Call the dealer, tell them what you want, and go from there. If they jerk you around, buy someplace else.

boomchek · December 2005

avatexrs, It is very possible that the dealer doesn't have the color you want, but a 5 minute phone call and chat with the person you are corresponding with via email will confirm the availibility.

Like somebody said before, the most important customer for a dealer is the one that walks into the showroom.

Hope you find the color you want.

boomchek · December 2005

OTD means "Out The Door" price, which is total price after taxes, fees, charges etc.

If the vehicle you want is rare or very hard to find and the dealer would have to bring it in from another area, or another state then the fee might be for transportation charges. But $750 sounds high to me anyways.

IF you are looking to buy a car for which there is a wait list, I'd suggest you put your order in soon, so you can get the car by January or whenever you need it.

Otherwise talk to the dealer closer to your purchase date as offers and deals on new cars might change by then.

surfing49 · December 2005

How common is it to buy a car from one dealer, but use a closer dealer for followup warranty service? And how would the closer dealer feel about servicing "another dealer's car"?

Kirstie_H · December 2005

Let's check the personal comments, folks, and concentrate on answering several of the questions that have popped up over the past 24 hours. Thanks!

dino001 · December 2005

I did exactly that - three year ago I bought WRX from one dealer and have serviced in another one ever since - more convenient location, slightly better prices, better (I heard) technicians (one dealer is designated "Stellar performer" another is not). Never had a problem, always got a loaner when needed (just had to call in advance). BTW my car still has some identificating decalls from the other dealer. Only recently they vaccumed my wallet with a new battery, charging me twice for "electrical testing" (the thing you get free at local Auto Zone). Didn't make me happy, but does not break the deal, as for yet. I'll be more careful next time.

Warranty service, depending on a relationship with mfr. may be quite profitable business for a dealership. Maintenance service for sure is profitable, so why would they give up a potential customer? They don't care where the car came from - would you? After several visits you will become their "regular", so your "rights" will be same as others who bought the care there.

Now, it is based on my vast experience with one car and some interviews I made during buying process. It may vary from brand to brand (as some manufacturer's may be less cooperative in warranty claims than others), but I suspect that regardless whether it's a Chevy or a Jag, the dealer's garage would be more than happy to take the money (yours or manufacturer's) regardless where the care originated.

Also, consider this: if they (the dealer) are honest, they will be honest with everybody, if they are sleazeballs, they will try to scam everybody as well, regardless.

savvyknight · December 2005

The posts about dealers responding (or not responding) to e-mail requests are interesting to me.

I've been in the retail auto business for about 12 years now, and I've been in management for the last 8 years. My experience has taught me that everybody wants a deal, which, of course, is understandable.

But, when a potential customer sends out e-mails to 20 dealers looking for the best price, it is usually not a high priority to most dealers for one simple reason: Zero Profit.

Face it, everybody thinks that you should be able to buy a car for $100 over dead cost. Unfortunately, the average car dealer has approximately $800-$1000 in overhead costs attached to every car. If I can't make a profit on a deal, why would I accept it?

There is a lot more to a dealership than the price you pay. How is there service after the sale? Do you get a loaner if your car is in the shop? Is the staff courteous and honest? Do they take the time to answer your questions and help you make the best decision? Do they give back to your community? These are all points that need to be taken into account when buying a car.

If you are only looking for the best price, then don't expect every dealer to get back to you. Sometimes, it just isn't worth selling a car if you all you do is cut your price to somebody who would buy the car at a competitor if it's $10 cheaper. Especially when that customer has no intention of every utilizing your other services such as finance, body shop, parts and service etc.

isellhondas · December 2005

Well said, but you are "whistling in the dark".

Most of the people who read your words simply don't care. For them, it's all about PRICE. Nothing else matters.

All of your points are valid and I know I've become jaded.

savvyknight · December 2005

I can understand people being concerned with price.

I just wish that people would realize that there is more to a "deal" than price. Most dealers would gladly pass on the "best price" business.

There is such a thing as a fair price and a fair profit. Unfortunately, we can never arrive at that happy medium when dealers are being put against one another fighting over $50 business and the consumer doesn't care about the service his local dealer can provide.

Good dealers earn their profits through good service. It's amazing that the customers who give us a shot are happy with us, and price shoppers just kill our CSI ratings and make us look bad to the manufacturer.

jasmith52 · December 2005

Price, Service, Price, Service, Price, Service, Price, Service.

It just seems like this topic comes up over and over. Sure it's fun but just maybe there are other fun topics to discuss. And just so you know I'm more of a price guy than a service guy.

In my opinion, the only way to get a great price without being a total jerk is to use some variation of the Bobst method. Make a lowball offer and if they take it go for it. If not move on to another dealer, raise the bid and see if that offer goes. Repeat this process as necessary until you've got a deal. Always be thoughtful and kind to the people around you. Really it doesn't have to be so confrontational. On the other hand, If you get any indication of less than straight-forward business dealings get up and leave.

This should be fun, not a cat fight !

kyfdx · December 2005

No matter what price I pay... I get the same great service from my local dealer.....

So.. why would I want to pay more? Even if I prefer to buy from my local dealer, I still want the lowest price possible..

Also.. whether I am a jerk or not is irrelevant.. (although, I'm not usually described that way). When it is time to buy a car, price is the most important thing.

regards,
kyfdx
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jasmith52 · December 2005

well you go to Denny's for breakfast you get the same service whether or not you leave a tip (at least the first time you go). Yet someone who comes to work everyday, comes there with the expectation of getting paid.

So you make a poor financial move and buy a new car for say $30k. But you'll fight like a pit-bull to save that last $100 or $200. Just maybe you should re-evaluate your priorities and either don't make that crummy move of buying a new (or newer used) car. And just leave a small amount on the table.

And whether or not you think so, to do otherwise is jerk-like behavior.

Can you buy the car for a little less ? - well maybe. Will they still serve you at Denny's if you don't leave a tip ?- well they probably will but what a jerk you are.

dino001 · December 2005

As I see it, market has its extremes on both sides: people who want to get it for free, they'll argue about $1 difference between the quote and the contract and will blast you in CSI anyway, because you dared to ask for more than $500 below invoice. Then, you have dealers selling extended warranties for twice as much as they're worth, paint sealant for ten times its worth, "offering" 12% APR financing to a 720 customer who has never been late on his bill, but does not follow lates prime rate, etc. The attitude of squeezing out is present on both sides. Historically the dealers had cosiderable edge in that "game" as more skilled, better trained and having all information, but recent developments has made the marketplace much harder to them as their information edge is no more.

Why would I make that whole search about anything other than the price? Salesforce changes every month, except perhaps minority of "upscale" family places where product knowledge is much more imporant (those usually are not lowest-priced). Garage is run as a separate business and would be more than happy to get your/manufacturer's money regardless of retail origination. If there is a loaner in mfr. service program, one is entitled to it regardless. There may be some considerations, but they are marginal and purely hypothetical.

The only real reason of not going for the best price is if I really cannot stand the guy or his place. I came across such places couple of times, all the same network - after each visit I felt like I needed a long hot shower. Plain awful, but they are known for good prices. I was wondering if they (prices) are really that great when everything is added (conveniently all their vehicles are loaded with lots of dealer's crap, which would of course substantially increase argument length and level, one would want actually buy vehicle without it (dealer's junk).

I would say - tough luck. Good times are not coming back, if anything, we are moving towards even lower average retail markups, perhaps even fixed ones. Until then, you may always say "sir, if you believe your price is attainable, I advise you to so and so and buy it there".

volvomax · December 2005

If you sre going to repaet the mantra that price is the most important thing when buying a car you are doing the people who read this board a huge disservice.
There are plenty of people driving around out there who had to get the best price, so they patronize those meatball dealers who advertise so cheap, then get beat up by those same dealers for 4 hrs. before they get a deal, then drive home in a car they don't even like cause it was a deal. Then they grow tired of their great deal and try to trade it in, only to be told that their great deal low price car isn't worth the lick of a postage stamp.

mazda6iguy · December 2005

I remember back in the 80's when my Dad bought a Cadillac, he took it into the service department and I remember a sign at the service write up area stating that they will service cars from their dealership first priority, then others.

jipster · December 2005

Price, service...or service price? Why not both? It's not an either or question. Go to a dealership you are comfortable with and try to get the best deal possible.If you become unsatisfied with their service...take it somewhere else. My dealership calls with survey questions every time I take our Mazda (Zoom Zoom) MPV in for service. There are other Mazda dealerships in my area...so obviously keeping their customers is a priority for them.
Last time I went in for a tire rotation I asked the parts dept. assistant some questions about their tires. He was pleasant, said he didn't have the answer but would find out and call me back. He took my name and number and called back within 3 or 4 hours. When the survey call came,I gave the dealership a lot of positive feedback on their parts and service dept. and made sure to mention the gentleman who assisted me with my questions.

The dealership tries to make the most money possible on a sale. As a good consumer, my job is to pay the least(within reason) and get the most.

qbrozen · December 2005

I agree with others... and dealerships agree with me, in my opinion. I've had several occassions where talking to one department leads me to believe they know nothing about the other department.

"hey, i was just talking to Jim Schmo in service ..."

salesperson: "who? Jim? must be new..."

From what I've seen, most dealerships aren't a single machine, they are divided.

We had a great buying experience at a particular Honda dealer and decided to reward them with our service business. After half a dozen trips or so, I got REAL tired of the pushy and rude service manager ... something I would not have seen when shopping for the car, I might add.

You can have a great service department and horrible salespeople, so why should I reward the salespeople for what the service department provides? And vice versa?

bobst · December 2005

This was my experience, Savvy.

In 1985 and 1987 I bought new cars and paid the price the dealer asked. No negotiation. However, I was not treated well when it came time for service.

I learned that being a nice customer does not mean I will get good service.

Therefore, all I care about now is price when I buy a car. I will deal with the service later.

kyfdx · December 2005

Well.. apples and oranges.. Once I choose a car, then getting it for the least amount of money is the priority.. It would be a disservice to myself and my family to pay more than I have to...

I don't see what that has to do with someone buying a car they don't want.. :confuse:

I've still never seen anyone come up with actual benefit to paying an extra $500 for the car you want. Good karma?

And.. generally I don't tip sales personnel.... So, I'm not sure what that has to do with Dennys.. I'm also not sure why being a good negotiator would also keep you from being a good tipper.

Also, no car has ever been purchased from a dealer, that wasn't willing to sell it at that price..

Sometimes the lowest price comes from a good dealer... If you can't match the lowest price, then what is your dealership doing wrong?

regards,
kyfdx

dino001 · December 2005

I don't see what that has to do with someone buying a car they don't

He probably refers to "deal shoppers", who first look if it's on sale before they think whether or not they actually like or need it. Plenty of people like that. Come for Corolla, leave with Camry, because it had $1000 cash back. Come for a used midsize, drive off with a gas guzzling SUV, etc. After couple of months (or hours

) they realize it was not right, but they wait a year or two, and roll their negative equity into a next "deal".

charlotte7 · December 2005

I don't see what's wrong with wanting to get the best, lowest price possible on the car you buy. I'm a single person and I don't make very much money. I work 40 hours a week and I attend school, too. I don't HAVE $500 or even $100 to waste or spend more than I need to when I buy a car.

Also, just because you buy from the dealership that seems better and like it would provide better service (and may charge a higher price), does not mean you will GET better service. I learned this the hard way.

The last time I purchased a new car (June '04) I bought a Subaru Outback. There are two Subie dealers in my city--one a much larger, bigger dealership that DID offer me a slightly better ($200 less) price on the model I wanted, but their salespeople acted like total weasels, were ignorant about the details of the car, and kept trying to get me to look at the other marque they sold there (Hyundai if you can believe it!) instead of focusing on what I told them I was interested in looking at.

I chose to buy from the much smaller, nicer dealership because I thought it would be a better place to get the car serviced--it was also much closer to my house. The salesman was extremely courteous, professional, and helpful. I bought the car thinking I'd just made a very smart move and did not mind paying a bit more.

Then I began having troubles with the car--it got terrible gas mileage (much worse than it should have, even taking into account that the EPA ratings are mostly fiction) and began periodically not starting--in both hot and cold weather. I took it to the "nice" dealership where I bought it repeatedly, and although I got a loaner car every time I took it in, the chief service manager was actively rude--almost hostile, condescending, and acted as though there could be nothing wrong with my car and I was just an ignorant female. I never heard or saw anything from the salesman I'd bought the car from again in my experiences at the dealership.

The "mileage test" they performed on the car was a complete joke (topping the already mostly full tank with less than a gallon of gas and driving it 25 miles is not a proper mileage test), and when I told them so, the service manager suggested that if I wasn't getting 30 mpg in the wagon (nearly double the highest mileage I'd ever gotten with it!), it MUST be my driving. They also refused to investigate the issue of the car intermittently not starting, even after I volunteered to drive it to the dealership as soon as I could get it running again after it would do it. If it started the one or two times they tried in their garage, it must start perfectly all the time!

After dealing with these problems for the better part of the year and feeling like there was no recourse, I sold the car to CarMax for more than I owed on it and washed my hands of Subaru. I also learned a valuable lesson--just because the sales experience was pleasant and positive does not mean the rest of your business with that dealership will be the same way.

lemmer · December 2005

Our local Toyota dealer advertises cars with prices including all document fees, etc. They usually sell them right at invoice, and not just one car or one model - it seems like the full spectrum. Additionally they are known for having good service. They will even come to your house to pick up your car for regular service.

My sister bought an Accord from an Atlanta dealer while she lives in Athens, GA. She will never take it in for service at the dealership at which it was purchased. Knowing this, their opening offer over the phone was $100 under invoice.

Good service, bad service, no service - I don't see how any of it should effect what I pay.

These dealers I have mentioned are both hugely successful, among the biggest of any dealer in their respective cities. They seem to have low pressure sales tactics combined with low margin sales prices that are clearly represented to the consumer.

When does the gloom and doom come for these guys? They aren't making the necessary $1000-$2000 per car (maybe not even if you included holdback, etc.)

When is the boat going to tip, and they realize that even though they are successful that they should allow the seemingly already happy sales staff a "reasonable" profit? Or realize that they should beat up customers for hours before giving them the good deal? Those are the two choices for a dealership, right?

Why

stickguy · December 2005

Did you at least try another dealership's service department? It isn't that uncommon for a problem to be hard to diagnose, and a different set of eyes/experience might make the difference.

that, and after you are there a few times, and they can't do anything, they lump you into the crank/flake catagory and try to blow you off. Hey, it must be you, because if it was the car, it would mean they were incompetent!

tamaraster · December 2005

When I wanted to buy my CR-V, I emailed three different dealerships asking for a quote. I used an Internet form that made me give a phone number, but I was clear that I wanted a quote by email. Two of the dealerships called me and left me voice mail with no quote in it. One dealership's sales guy emailed me a quote. I bought the car there for the quoted price (which was a good one, as best I coudl tell, though no doubt not the lowest I could have gotten if I'd wanted to be more aggressive) within the week.

The guy I bought the car from could have assumed I was just wasting his time asking him and 19 other dealers for a quote, but he took 5 minutes (if that) of his time to actually send me a dollar figure, and got the sale as a result. There was no [non-permissible content removed] when I got to the dealership either. I really appreciated that.

Some people find email really off-putting, and I guess a lot of car salespeople feel that way, but I hate - with a passion - calling people on the phone. And had I been shopping by car, I wouldn't have driven 40 minutes to get to the dealership I bought from, when there are like 5 other Honda places closer to me.

So I think car salespeople should keep in mind that some people, like me, would far rather email than phone. It's up to you, of course, whether to respond to any form of contact, but if you can respond to email in a straightforward way, it might pay off.

I commented to my salesman that I was buying from him because he was the only one to respond to me with an actual quote. He said that, in his experience, people who email really do just want a straight response. Of course, he was probably saying that to make me feel good, but maybe that really is his experience.

dino001 · December 2005

I found email as a great first contact tool in my last purchase. At that time I had been in the country for 5 years - long enough to know that my accent (I'm fluent, but obviously foreign) puts me immediately at slight disadvantage, which needs to be overcome by showing them I know what's going on. I wasn't very sure of my skills then, nor I had half of working knowledge about this business that I have now (not that I claim to be an expert, but I am way more confident today). Long story short I did not get firm email responses, but phone follow-ups were very pleasant and forthcoming - I got all three OTD faxed offers. I selected two, came to first, got a trade offer (lower than expected/hoped), went to another, they beat the trade by $500 (which was 25% more than first offer) and added couple of hundred on the price and I bought it.

I'm not afraid to show my face and speak anymore, I have done a few "dry runs" sincem, usually in response to some "too good to be true super-dooper" offers sent to me by mail - they always resulted in a final "thanks, but no thanks". I believe email is a great startup tool in many instances, especially if you are "verbally challenged" and not very confident, like I was then.

I don't mind first generic response, but what bothers me, are lousy follo=ups by some even when asked for details of that "$299/month" for a vehicle without even desciption (options). Some would not respond or dance around without releasing any meaningful details even after couple of exchanges. That really turns me off.

savvyknight · December 2005

There are several reasons why a dealer will sell vehicles for lower profits. First and foremost is the fact that a good dealer will have a profitable finance department to make up for the loss of profit on the sale of the car. As a matter of fact, F&I income is the main reason that people can get the pricing on cars that they do. A lot of dealers take lower profit deals just so they can have a shot at the finance department. If internet financing becomes more prevalent, than you can expect the price of cars to start inching up to to help the dealer compensate for the lost income.

Also, good service does have an impact on what you pay. For example, the two stores you mentioned sounds to me like they have good service departments. The sale of a car breeds service business. Once again, it sometimes makes good business sense to take less profit from the sale knowing that you will pick up additional profit down the road from the service department.

That goes back to my original points about service. Why would I accept a lower profit deal from somebody who will probably not finance the car with me? Or will probably not be interested in my service department down the road? I have to be able to justify every sale. I will take a lower profit deal for a good service customer than somebody e-mailing me from 100 miles away.

Sorry, but I believe in taking care of existing customers. I also believe in trying to make new customers long term customers. The only way to do this is through good service. I also believe that I deserve to be fairly compensated for the good service I provide.

Of course, I understand that there are still dealers out there who believe in short term business. As a matter of fact, they are my best salespeople! Let a customer come to my store after a high pressure store, and it's an easy sale.

Most people just want to be treated honestly and fairly. I take pride in the fact that I do just that.

charlotte7 · December 2005

No--we only have one other Subaru dealership in my city (the next nearest one is about 100 miles away) and I had already visited that other Subaru dealership when I was initially carshopping. I had such an odious experience there that I didn't want to go back for service, and I figured that if the "good" dealership I'd had a good sales experience with was so unpleasant to deal with for service, the dealership that I disliked at the sales stage was bound to be worse.

I had another friend who had dealt with the other dealership specifically for service, and he hated them too. (He had to have a crate motor in his brand-new WRX, which threw a rod.)

dino001 · December 2005

I agree, but sometimes "best" means "good enough" both in product/service and price. That's why Wal-Mart prevailed over say SEARS or Southwest over so-called legacy carriers. Nobody pretends they are the best, yet most people buy there anyway. I hate Wal-Mart lines and sometimes I swear I never come back. Yet, I go there, again.

mitzij · December 2005

As common as a bookworm at a library. Some dealers don't like to service 'other dealers customers', but most of us are happy to have work to do, regardless of the label on the bumper. I get asked that question alot here. If it's a Chevy, I can do warranty work on it!

gobruins · December 2005

charlotte7 - "I don't see what's wrong with wanting to get the best, lowest price possible on the car you buy."

Don't get me wrong, I certainly haggle over car prices. However, in response to everyone's belief that 'there's nothing wrong with bargaining', I feel compelled to explain one particular economic school of thought I encountered in an Econ class at UCLA (hopefully I do it justice, let me know if I missed anything).

1) When you bargain for a price, you are using your valuable time as well as the dealers.
2) You will continue to bargain with the dealer so long as the time you spend bargaining is less valuable than the amount of money you'll save (i.e. you won't bargain for 4 hours to save $10, but you might to save $1000)
3) Once the value of the next minute of time equals the value of the money you'll save in the next minute, you'll stop bargaining. i.e: If you could save $100 more by bargaining for an amount of time worth only $75 to you, you'd do it. If you keep bargaining beyond the point at which the next dollar worth of time will save you exactly a dollar, you'll see a loss. (for econ people, mc=mr for this quantity of time)

Look at the results:
A) You have exchanged your time for money, i.e. your end result is a small gain, the money you saved minus the value of the time you spent.

The dealer has exchanged his time for a loss of money, i.e. he sees a big loss, the money you saved plus the time he spent with you.
C) The result is that society see a net loss. The money difference balances out, it just transfered from one person to another, no loss here for society. But the time you both spent is lost and this is inefficient.

The above argument does assume that the dealer's initial price is at market value. If he's overpriced then it could be efficient to bargain, but otherwise (according to this school of thought) it is socially inefficient to bargain.

Personally, I say to heck with the dealer, I'll take a small gain even if it means he sees a big loss. However, I believe forums are about presenting differing opinions, so there you go.

charlotte7 · December 2005

I agree with you in theory, but this assumes that I'm spending my physical time sitting in the dealership doing this bargaining. I did not--I did this entirely via the Internet and this is how I will conduct my next car-buying transaction. I spent probably about a fourth of the time doing the haggling that I would have had I done this the traditional way.

I don't feel irritated to spend time dealing with price from a computer--I have to sit at one all day for my job anyway, as do many, many people nowadays. I DO feel irritated to endure the four-square, etc. in the flesh in the dealership. I have very little free time between a full-time job and school, and what free time I've got is precious. I don't want to spend it in a car dealership unless I know that's where I'm going to buy my car.

I know this is almost a religious issue on these forums, but I'm personally not willing to spend hours sitting in a dealership haggling. I saw my parents do this for years growing up, and I'm simply not interested in it. I'll do my test drives in person, and if I like the salesperson and think I could work with them, I'll give them the opportunity to call or email me with their best price. I'll also contact other dealers via email and if someone else's price is better, I'll give the salesperson I liked the opportunity to match it. If he/she can, super.

Dealerships who can't or aren't willing to discuss OTD pricing on a specific vehicle over the Internet or on the phone have just self-selected themselves out of pool of dealers that I'll buy from.

kdhspyder · December 2005

different strokes, etc. If I get the price I want with the features I will take any color any interior. So do a lot of folks. It sure makes the whole process easier.

kdhspyder · December 2005

IOW vote with your feet and wallet. It's not anything to get upset about.

The ones who didnt answer had the following go on:
-eMgr just left to have her baby;
-eCommerce is new to this store they are just starting to learn how to do it;
-dealer 3 is just poorly run;
-dealer 4 is switching equipment or site and things are falling between the cracks;
-dealers 5-6-7 have everything running smoothly so that's where you go.

kdhspyder · December 2005

If you didnt get the two better deals and went in later in the week to finish the paperwork and the dealer told you that he sold that unit because someone else bid higher on it, how would you feel. This question comes up every couple of weeks in the same format.

So did you make a deal or not? What is your word worth? Or were you just asking the first dealer to tie up his inventory until you shopped some more?

bdr127 · December 2005

Maybe we should clarify what is meant by "Service"...

When people are referring to customers sacrificing good service to save $100, they are not just talking about the service department. They also mean general customer service....

For example, say you have a question about your car that you can't find the answer to. You decide to call up your salesperson to get the answer. Good service would provide you with an answer, whether they know it off-hand or if they have to find the answer and get back to you. Bad service would blow you off or give you the wrong answer...

Say, for example, you didn't get a spare key or your owners manual upon delivery and your salesperson promised he'd get them to you. Good service would have them to you ASAP. Bad service would blow you off, require constant nagging, and perhaps you'd never get what you were promised...

Obviously these are just a couple of examples, but "service" can include the personal touches, attention to detail, and the feeling that you actually matter to the dealership and salesperson.

pat · December 2005

I don't have a clue as to how to figure that dealer A will give me better service than dealer B. If I was sure of that, I wouldn't have a problem paying dealer A more than the car might cost me at dealer B, but how the heck do you KNOW these things? I don't think you do.

I know some of you are going to say get referrals from friends, Romans, and countrymen, but what if you are buying a vehicle about which no one you know has ever been interested and you are buying from one of two dealers in a metropolitan area and have no way to distinguish one from the other but price?

Yes, of personal experience I do speak. :P

The salesperson I dealt with was horrible enough that I called the sales manager and asked for another salesperson. I ended up negotiating with the sales manager on the phone to a deal I could accept. I was royally pissed to find that he gave me back to the really, really slimy sales dude when I showed up to get the car, but I've been very happy with them ever since.

How on earth can you predict these things? It seems very logical to me to make decisions on what one has to pay when there are no other concrete facts to consider.

oac · December 2005

I am new on this forum, but looking for an answer to a question.

I bought a car from a dealer in TX who will ship the car to me here in Cali. The purchase included a trade-in, which the shipper will ship back to the dealer. My question is: am I required to include the plates on my car being shipped to the dealer in TX, or should I remove them ? The plates are personalized and my wife wants to use them for the new car. Any help/input would be appreciated.

Thx

jasmith52 · December 2005

Keep the plates, you paid for them they are yours. Besides the Texas dealer has no use for them.

As an aside, I hope that you have looked into the smog issues and California registration for that out of state car. If the car you are buying doesn't have the same smog equipment as California cars or does not have a California emmisions sticker on it you just might be in for an expensive surprise.

late model cars may be much better than somewhat older cars. I looked into purchasing an older car from Texas at one time. After I saw what was required to register it in California I passed on the deal.

Perhaps some of the other posters have more specific information that they can share with you.

oac · December 2005

Thanks for the response. The truck is a 2003 LX470, but I will certainly look into the emissions/smog to ensure it will not be a problem. Thx once again...

volvomax · December 2005

Every manufacturer has a rating system for dealers.
With Volvo it is the Presidents Club, Lexus has the ELite of Lexus, Chrysler has 5 star etc.
High CSI is one of the critical components in determining who gets the award.
You can also check w/ the BBB and see who has the most complaints.

As for your earlier question, there are plenty of reason why a dealer would not match another dealers price.
Dealer A is selling cars at a loss because they are trying to gain market share. Dealer B is trying to sell cars at a profit because that is what they do.
Dealer A advertises a blahmobile for $800 less than Dealer B. You go to dealer A to buy this car only it doesn't exist, or its not as described or any of a hundred other reasons. You make a big fuss, they sell you a car you spend 6 hours in the dealership. Some dealers will sipmly shoot you a ridiculous price if they know you are shopping.
This way, they will get to see you again when no one else will match the deal.
There are sooo many ways to take advantage of price shoppers, this is why the car business has the rep it has.
These dealers wouldn't be in business if they didn't have gullible people to buy cars from them.

bigdveedubgirl · December 2005

Since it is a used vehicle, as long as it passes emmissions I think you will be okay. Check to see if Lexus is 50 state compliant. You can not bring a new car from another state to California.

jasmith52 · December 2005

It's not as simple as that. The vehicle must be certified (via a California sticker) that it is smog compliant. Just because a vehicle is California smog compliant does not necessarily mean that it is California smog certified.

Here's a link to the DMV site(s) that explains the process:

What You Need to Know Before Buying a Vehicle from Out-of-State

Many vehicles were manufactured with smog rules for 49 states excluding California.

Here is a quote from the DMV website that should raise a few flags:

"If you acquire a 49 state vehicle (vehicle manufactured for all states except California) from another state or country and do not qualify for one of the exemptions, you cannot register your vehicle and must immediately remove it from this state. You may purchase a One-Trip Permit to do so."

here's another web page that may interest you:

How To Register A Nonresident Vehicle

mace242 · December 2005

As it turns out I did not back out of the deal. I spoke to the dealer that I left the deposit with and told them about my other offer. The dealer I left the deposit with was the one I wanted to give my business to. We negotiated a price not quite as low as the other offer, but I was willing to pay the few hundred dollar difference to deal with the better dealership.
I realize backing out of the deal would have been a real sleezy thing to do, but I had to ask. Thanks for your reply.
By the way - I'm the pround new owner of a BMW 325xi for $500 over invoice.

isellhondas · December 2005

Good information!

I just keep wondering WHY anyone would want to go through the hassle of going through all of this.

Should be a lot of similar vehicles in his/her area! :confuse:

jasmith52 · December 2005

I just keep wondering WHY anyone would want to go through the hassle of going through all of this.

My point exactly ! When I looked at smog rules and transport costs for a car I though was a good deal, my reaction was why bother.

Unless you just have to have a very rare car that only a few people have - why bother ?

Of course, the E-bay type web-sites from out of state dealers say nothing about California smog rules. Buyer beware !

oac · December 2005

Thanks all for the comments. All are very useful. Let me answer a few ones.

1) Emissions. Checked with the dealer service technician. The truck is California state certified. But it would still need to be smoged here in Cali before it can be registered.

2) why buy out of state ? Well, here in So Cal, the same car is $3-6K higher. I couldn't get a dealer to budge much in price for the same truck. Seems they remain popular despite the high gas prices. Besides, the truck has the rare color I was looking for (sand dollar pearl), the features I want in the truck, priced $5K lower than the same comparable truck here, and a great trade-in value for mine. All make for a great deal I cannot pass up. It has taken me almost 1 year to get this truck at the price I want to pay. As they say: "no pain, no gain". So I will endure the little hassle on it, knowing that I am getting the best value for my money, overall.

3) Transport cost: Since there are 2 trucks involved, the cost came to $1400. The dealer agreed to share the cost 50-50. So I pay $700 to receive mine, and he pays $700 to receive his trade-in. Seems fair. Others were asking for an even $1000 to ship, so this dealer's fee was cheaper, as well.

isellhondas · December 2005

i don't know what "sand dollar pearl" looks like but I do know that most "rare" colors are rare because so few people like them that the dealers don't order any. Most "rare" colors are dropped after the first year because of this.

As used cars, that "rare" color can be saleproof.

You are taking some risks here...what if there is shipping damage? Suppose your trade gets damaged?

I think I would maybe pick a different color and try to get a better price from a local dealer.

You've been warned...good luck. I hope it works for you.

aparamedic · December 2005

Hey everyone

Thanks for the advice and discussion about color choice... I ended up choosing a backup color (silver) for my pilot and the dealer indicated that they would be able to get one via dealer trade and keep the deal intact...

BUT...

I applied & signed a contract during the Honda finance Thanksgiving / end-of-november special (2.9/3.9/4.9 for 24/36/60 months). They didn't ask me what finance term I wanted when I left the deposit and gave them my soc for the finance app and was told that we could work out financing details when I came in for the car. Today, my sales rep tells me that they applied and received approval for 4.9% @ 60 months, but I want to pay the loan off in 2 years (and at 2.9%). My credit score is 780, so I don't think I should have any problem qualifying for the loan. In addition, I have a 13K trade-in and a 10K down payment, so I'm only looking to finance about 10.5K.

The sales rep is telling me that I am past the deadline for financing at the special Thanksgiving rate through Honda, but the whole time that they were looking for my original color choice, I was told that I would be fine to get the special finance rate since I signed a contract / locate order while the special was going on.

isellhondas and/or anyone else - can you help me out with the exact terms of what Honda's financing is? Also, the sales rep claims that I can just pay extra each month and pay off the loan in 2 years at the same cost, but using a financial calculator, I'm showing that it will cost approx $1300 in interest to pay the loan off in 5 years, $650 to pay off a 4.9%/5 year loan in 2 years, and $350 to pay off a 2.9% loan in 2 years.

Thanks again for all the help and advice!

oac · December 2005

You are taking some risks here...what if there is shipping damage? Suppose your trade gets damaged?

I think I would maybe pick a different color and try to get a better price from a local dealer.

You've been warned...good luck. I hope it works for you.

Thanks, really. I do appreciate the candid advice. I'll see how it all turns out. Accredited shippers are warranteed and bonded, so any damage(s) will be taken care of. I'll post an update when all these is done. Have my fingers crossed.

ps: sand dollar pearl color, by Lexus strange definition, is a cream-ish color. Not tan, not white, somewhere in-b/w. A really beautiful color, but rare... see it here

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