Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

richardcoulson · September 2002

sbindley, did the 4" speakers fit in the dash without have to cut new holes? I listened to some 3.5" infinity's today, but would prefer 4" ones if they fit. What is a woox?

cmack4, the rear doors with the bose system has mounts for only the 5.25". You could probably get the 6.5" ones to fit if you want to create a new mounting plate for them.

sportbikenut, I posted instructions for door panel removal several months ago in this post. Try doing a search.

Thanks all for the input.

johntr · September 2002

I had an issue with my rear wiper/washer not working, but had nothing to do with washer fluid levels. Service required replacement of the BCM (Body Control Module?). It required about 2 hours labor and reset of the programs. I had to reset the Driver 1 & Driver 2 preferences. I also had to reprogram the key fobs (dealer would have done it, but he didn't have them - it was easy.)

john

malibu99 · September 2002

Thank you for the info. I will have to call my service dept tomorrow. Much appreciated.

stever · September 2002

by Richardcoulson (removing the door panel) looks to be this one:

richardcoulson May 20, 2002 7:34pm

Our Advanced Search tool on the left sidebar is still in testing but is up and running for now.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tblazer503 · September 2002

of course... maybe it just wasn't held down long enough.. =o) It's always a possibility as there is probably about 20' of hose to push the water through...

sportbikenut · October 2002

Thanks for the info. search on removing door panels. Could you please confirm direct fit speaker size? Front door = ??, Rear door = 5.25"?? And also maximum speaker depth inches.
Thanks!

m2iceman · October 2002

Sbindley:

Can you email me at M@iceman@Aol.com. I have some questions for you on the setup of the Kenwood. I would like to go the route you did with the speakers, but need more info.

Thanks

malibu99 · October 2002

I thought it could be that I wasn't holding it down long enough but then I realized that before, when the wiper was off and I pressed the washer button, the wiper would come on automatically. This time if I press the wash button nothing happens

Gonna have to drop her off today .

sbindley · October 2002

Had to cut the dash to fit the 4" but they are a perfect match, so they look fine.

A WooX is a very small powered woofer that fits beneath the rear hatch cargo well.

previousamigo · October 2002

I also just got the recall notice in the mail today for the fuel line clip recall. I called GM and asked the dealer about this 5 months ago when the news first came out and they said that my VIN # did not fall under the recall. But now it does??? I could have had this taken care of more than three different times over the last few months for numerous other warranty problems I had fixed. Now that everything is working and it is another 5,000 miles until my next oil change, they send me the recall notice 5 months late!!! Oh well, I'm sure something else will break soon so I can also have the recall also fixed.

tblazed · October 2002

I wonder if they decided to include more vehicles beyond the original dates they were concerned with? I know on mine, the original retainer clips were white the new ones are blue. If you catch the dealer at a good time it should not take more than a 1/2 hr or so to get it done based on my experience.

That is the only time my TrailBlazer has been back to a dealer for anything BTW.

Year: 2002
Make: CHEVROLET TRUCK
Model: TRAILBLAZER

Recall Date: 04/30/2002
Type of Report: Vehicle
Potential Number of Units Affected: 60044
Manufactured: 09/2001 - 11/2001
Defect Summary:

VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES. A FUEL
FILTER FITTING CAN BECOME DISCONNECTED. IF THIS WERE TO OCCUR WHILE
ATTEMPTING TO START THE ENGINE, A NO-START CONDITION WOULD RESULT AND FUEL WOULD BE PUMPED OUT THE FUEL FILTER ONTO THE GROUND.

tsd98 · October 2002

What Next? This seems to be the question with my mother's TB. She is an elementary school teacher (not wealthy) and normally keeps cars for 100K miles. I hope this one lasts until the spring. She has no idea why this car is falling apart, and now prefers to drive my '97 F-150 (first year design) with 160,000 miles on the clock because it is much more likely to run. The F-150 has visited to the shop less in its life than the Trailblazer did in the first six weeks of ownership.

Trailblazer has a build date of 1/02, and I thought this would be long enough for GM to work out the bugs. An ice age wouldn't be long enough for them to get something right, IMHO. To date, the following have been service issues:

1. Leaky radiator cap blew coolant all over engine and hoodliner first week of "proud" ownership experience.
2. Battery leaking acid.
3. Water leak on rear tailgate window gasket.
4. Airbag warning light on for hours, set no code, no repair (who knows if they'll work).
5. Instrument panel dead, sometimes.
6. A/C only works sometimes.
7. Luggage rack cross bars installed backwards.
8. Catalytic converter replaced.
9. Ground cable replaced to battery.
10. License plate gasket TSB.
11. Fuel filter recall.
12. Washers spray over roof of car (no fix).
13. Currently, ABS and BRAKE warning lights come on, while this happens blower fan for climate control won't come on, and OnStar says code U1000.
14. Unfixable noise under car that has eluded dealer for months.
15. Hood squeak that I fixed with grease and hood bumper adjustment that started on the drive home from dealership.
16. Surging, hesitation, lack of shift on cold mornings

There are more but I can't think of them now. Odometer is at 13,600. It's at the service department today, broken.

GM SHOULD BE ASHAMED AND PROVIDE SOLUTIONS OR BUY THESE POS BOMBS BACK FROM THE HARDWORKING PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT THEM! My mother would sell it to end the nighmare but she would feel way too guilty if someone else or their kids got hurt in it. It can't outrun its own warranty claims - I now honestly hope GM goes broke trying to fix the trash that they build. Sorry for the rant and long post but I am now on a mission to let everyone (you, NHTSA, J.D. Power, friends, etc.) know about this piece of junk until something is done about it!

kgbkahnk · October 2002

sorry to hear of your list of problems, but i had to laugh about #7: Luggage Rack crossbars installed backwards.

The crossbars on my LTZ are installed backwards too, as well as the crossbars on my brother's Envoy.

The crossbars have a great, big arrow on them with the word "front". Anybody have any guesses as to maybe why GM is doing this? Intentionally or just consistently wrong?

Also, a question: how'd you (or anybody else) get your dealer to install the License plate bracket? Mine is telling me that until it poses a problem (i.e.starts rattling around and taking off paint), they've got no instructions by the manufacturer to fix it. Is this true? Thanks for the input.

cmack4 · October 2002

My argument would be, sure they might not have an obligation to fix it since the problem doesn't yet exist, but wouldn't common sense dictate that it's a lot easier to fix a potential problem with a $5 part than have the body shop repaint the housing later?

tsd98 · October 2002

I just told the service department about the TSB and gave them the part number. To their credit, they did not fuss and installed the gasket without question. I honestly feel sorry for them having to work on this car-it's not their fault.

tblazed · October 2002

" I honestly feel sorry for them having to work on this car-it's not their fault. "

Not to fret... they get PAID for warranty claims. That's how technicians earn their wages.

cmack4 · October 2002

The dealers are getting paid by GM to do TSB work. Albeit, GM often underestimates the amount of labor it takes to do certain jobs... and dealers are often reluctant to perform warranty service, because they could be doing more costly repairs.

My dealer gave me no greef either. In fact, they insisted on painting the area prior to installing the gasket to cover any existing chips and prevent spreading, event though the area is totally covered by the gasket. In my case you literally had to be less than a foot away to see any cracking/chipping. It looked like wax/polish.

pauleul · October 2002

I have played around with the advanced search. Works GREAT - thanks HOST and please pass it on to those responsible. It was a much needed feature.

My Envoy is now at 7K and still no problems. Had service done last week which included rotating the tires. Service department put 3 of 4 center caps on wrong - didn't follow the square peg in square hole concept. Two fell off and are now lost. I think I'm going to ask GM to buy back my defective truck (just kidding).

Sorry to all who are having major problems, but it sure is nice to be able to put up a positive post on this board.

stever · October 2002

Pauleul, will do -- but it's still being tested so usual disclaimers!

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

sugarmag13 · October 2002

my envoy just turned 1 year old...it spent its birthday in the shop...

it has been the shop a total of 11 times since 9/11/01...

all for the same reason...service engine light wont go off....they tried everything form replacing gas cap to a whole new gas tank...the light is still on! ive had all the recalls done while it was in the shop for this prob...

the instrument panel did die for 2 days for no apparent reason...

im so tired of this truck,,,,i have spent at least 2 days every month in a loaner car(today included)

i am in contact with gmc...and will be taking legal action against them if i am not satisfied VERY shortly!

gam2 · October 2002

Even after contacting the BBB (GM's arbitrator),
GM says they will NOT buy a vehicle back unless they are forced to do so. Don't even bother with GM. Go to the BBB first, and then get a lawyer. Maybe we should start a class action suit!

GAM

lurker01 · October 2002

This is only for those who have the rain sensing wipers:
I leave my rain sensing wipers on all the time in about the middle setting. I have noticed that sometimes when the sun is bright and the light hits the sensor at a certain angle, the wipers will trigger (one wipe). Has anyone else seen this? The dealer wants to replace the sensor but I suspect this might be a design defect.

For everyone:
Every once in awhile my rear wiper will go nuts and cycle between the wipe and the resting position realy fast. It just kinda shakes. I have to turn the wiper off then on again to get it to work right. This is *RARE* but still weird. Has anyone else seen this one?

Just a general comment, I think they could have tied the rain sensor into the rear wiper as well so you didn't need to turn that one on manually when the front ones triggered. A small thing, but annoying... (had to complain about something)

anonymous02 · October 2002

although this is about Jeeps, the concept applies pretty universally.

http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252768

pete2002 · October 2002

This past weekend I read some of the earlier posts concerning low transmission fluid levels from the factory; sure enough I found mine to be a quart low after it had been driven and warmed up for a while. I had to add a quart to bring it up to the upper hatch marks, the 'HOT' region. I thought the folks at the dealer delivery section checked all this but I assumed wrong. I have been driving like this for the past couple of months. The reason I started to check this was because I noticed my shift points were not as smooth as they should have been. The extra quart has made the shifting a bit more responsive. Just thought I let others know. No leaks that I have noticed on the driveway or garage so I presume this is the way it was delivered. Anyone know why GM left a quart out besides sloppy workmanship?

ron_m · October 2002

There's simply no way that I can describe the amount of frustration that I felt during the sixteen months of TrailBlazer LTZ ownership that I ended last Saturday. Due to the voluminous list of problems that I encountered with my particular vehicle, I felt as though I had no other choice but to trade it in on something of a different style and make. GM wouldn't buy it back without me having to take a MAJOR depreciation hit, and they wouldn't replace it either. I simply did not have the time or patience to deal with the BBB or State Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division buy back processes. But I probably should have MADE time. I really and truly feel cheated in a major kind of way. Especially since I had to take a fairly substantial financial hit to sever all ties with the TrailBlazer LTZ and get into another brand new vehicle.

All I can say is that I wanted out! My blood pressure has probably dropped 20 points on both the systolic and diastolic sides since I unloaded that TrailBlazer LTZ. I really can't think of anything else in my entire life that ever caused me as much grief as that TrailBlazer LTZ. I'm already sleeping better at night! :-) Seriously, I am!!!

I thought about posting the entire list of problems that I encounted with my TrailBlazer LTZ on here, but I'm really and truly afraid that it would frighten the very nice folks on here that
have been fortunate enough to get one of the 'good' triplets. Hey, I just happened to land one of the dreaded lemons. Therefore I will spare the Town Hall readers from the turgid diatribe that I COULD go off on. Even though I unloaded the TrailBlazer LTZ last Saturday, I thought I'd drop in here tonight to see if anyone else out there was still having problems. Glad I checked in--because my reasons for trading vehicles have just been solidified by reading the last 30 or so posts.

Best of luck to both the happy and unhappy triplet owners--and thanks to all of you for the information that you shared with me on this board. Both positive and negative. You folks have been very helpful to me, and you all played a huge part in my decision to trade vehicles for something that I firmly believe will make me a happier car owner.

Kind regards,

Ron M.

richardc4 · October 2002

Several messages have mentioned fan noise. Living in Southern Arizona I can pretty much tell with the temperature reaches 100 degrees. The fan really howls for a bit. It's somewhat disturbing but stops after a few minutes. Mirrors: Does anybody know of any outside mirror extensions for an Envoy that's compatible with what's on the vehicle. I'm pulling an 8' wide trailer and it's a bit hard to see around it. I saw some on a Ford pickup that looked as though they belonged on it and would like to find something that looks as though it belongs on my "Urban Assault Vehicle."

cebteb · October 2002

I am ready to buy a 2003 Bravada (although I'm having second thoughts after reading some of the recent posts). But, with the change in standard features and option packages, I find that the few on the dealer's lots are not well equipped. Heavy on the Bose and 6-discs, but lacking side air bags, moon roofs, and pneumatic rear suspension.

I've heard mixed opinion regarding having a dealer factory order your vehicle. While you may get what you want, the wait is long, and most believe you can't really bargain with the dealer if you want a factory order. Anyone have any experience with factory ordering and getting a good deal price-wise?

giddens_john · October 2002

I factory ordered mine and I believe I received a good deal. You just have to get enough dealers to bid for your money, and work it between all of them till no one will budge any more. It does take a little while, five to six weeks is average, and it also varies with where you live.

m2iceman · October 2002

Sbindley:

Having the Woox in the cargo hatch, is there enough room for 2? Or is one enough? As far as replacing the speakers, have you kept the factory head unit? I have the Bose and would like to keep things pretty much stock for now. Wiring the Woox, any problems or staight forward?
Thanks
Ice

ficuss · October 2002

lurker1 and others with rain sensor wipers. Remember now that we're going into winter, that leaving your wipers in the on position in the evening can cause some major wiper motor problems if you wake up to ice on the windshield in the morning . Turning the car on will cause the wipers to TRY to work. If they are iced up, the motor will grind itself to death if you don't shut the wipers off first. The same also holds true if you run your car through a car wash and the wipers had been left on after driving in the rain the past day or so. When the car wash wets the car, the wipers come on and the wash brushes will do a job on the wiper arms. Rain sensors are one feature I could do without. I can generally tell when it is raining.

Ron M; just curious, did you detail all of the TB EXT problems to the buyer of you lemon? Or should we expect to hear from from that buyer here.

Frank

sbindley · October 2002

I looked into a pair of WooXes, but I don't think they'll both fit without some surgery. I am happy with the performance of this "simple" upgrade on the Bose system. I have always had several thousand dollar systems in my vehicles with custom sub enclosures, etc. This setup is not as good a high dollar system, but it sounds nice, is totally stealth, and is less than $1000 installed. Look for more info in Truckin's SUV Magazine early next year.

funits · October 2002

Yes -- on sunny days, when the sun light hits the front windshield (and sensor for the wipers) just right, the wipers come on for one pass. Sometimes this happens a couple of times. It seems to occur when the sun is low on the horizon and hits the windshield (sensor) more directly.

I have ignored this "problem" as my VW Passat with rain sensing wipers did the same thing.

I attribute the problem to water spots or some other discoloration on the windshield in front of the sensor.

giddens_john · October 2002

I've never had my rain sense wipers activate with out any water, and I've never had my rear wipers go crazy. I've been lucky, now that I've said this I must find a piece of wood to go knock on immediately. I keep the wipers on the first notch unless the rain gets too heavy for that setting, then I increase the setting accordingly, and after the rain is gone I put it back to the first notch. I never have to worry about snow in southern Texas nor car washes with brushes though.

xntrick · October 2002

Well, I took the Envoy in today (build date 05/02) with 7500 miles on it. I showed up armed with a couple of TSB (headliner and front fascia) along with some requests re: the fan noise TSB and some oil leak in the rear end. My vin does not 'qualify' for the front fascia TSB but I've requested they look at it anyway because there is a VERY LOUD squeak from the front end!! My thanks because it is clear that when you show up with TSB numbers, there is not as much 'dicking around' because you are somewhat, if only by appearance, an educated consumer. Thanks to all for the assistance on this board.

Les Akins

kgbkahnk · October 2002

who can tell me where i can most easily find/print the relevant TSB for the Trailblazer?

I'm needing to have the headliner fixed, and i'd like to address the rear license gasket while i'm at it (i've got to take it in later this month for an oil change and for the recall on the fuel line, so i'd like to limit my trips to the dealer as much as possible)

If having a couple pieces of paper with part numbers on them to support my claims will reduce the amount of "dicking" i've got to do with the service techs, then by all mean, that's what i'll do.

Thanks for the help

lurker01 · October 2002

Thanks for the tip on the ice. I live in Seattle, so that is not something I normally think about. And I have hand washed the truck so far so I have not run into the carwash issue. I suppose if I did drive it through one, I would also have to remove the Onstar Antenna.

I must say, however, that rain sense wipers are a must in Seattle. I too can tell when it it raining. That is not the point of the sensor. The cool thing is how it adjusts the speed as the rain conditions change. And how it will wipe the spray when a car passes after a recent rain. You never have to fuss with the settings.

I will admit all this makes me a bit lazy. When I driver my girlfriend's A4, I have to remember to turn on the headlights at night! Now if they could just get the truck to steer and brake, we would be all set! ;-)

xntrick · October 2002

as per post #7415:

The TSB for the sagging headliner is 02-08-67-004. Basically, all they do is replace the velcro that holds the headliner in back of the sunroof with more HD stuff. You could also do it yourself by just using the HD hook and loop tape from Radio Shack.

and as per post #7249:

No, a dealer does not have to replace the entire license plate pocket just to get the new gasket. Sounds like your dealer didn't know the part number of the gasket, which lists for about $8.64 at Chevy dealers (although GMC dealers will double or triple this--why? because they can). But since this is under warranty, it doesn't make any difference. When I went in to have mine done, I told the dealer the part number, and he ordered it. Perhaps you didn't have the part number. It is 15170981. It is all explained in TSB #02-08-66-004. I'm surprised they didn't pull up the TSB. I fortunately carried a copy into the dealer to obviate that. If they wrinkled the new housing, then they should have to make good, since they apparently chose the wrong way to fix it. Good luck!

regards.

jcaesar625 · October 2002

I actually saw in after market add-on for the triplets that allows you to switch to and from Tow/Hual mode. I will need to see if I can dig up the link again.

jcaesar625 · October 2002

I didn't have a problem with the Rear Washer, but I had a problem with my front washers stop working. When i first got my TB, every time it would rain the front washers would intermittly not work. Then it eventually quit all together. Then I started having intermitting problems with the wiper controls itself. i.e. the wipers wouldn't work in intermitting mode, the normal speed would work in intermitting mode, and high speed would work as normal mode. Then the wipers and washer quit all together. I took my TB to the dealer. They intially though I had a bad motor, and they were going to jump on replacing it, but then the Dealer told me that he heard through the grapvine that there is a problem with the current designed wiring harness for the wiper controls and motor. They said it was allowing water to get in the motor and short out the motor. The Dealer said that Chevy was testing a new designed wiring harness, and said Chevy had a few available if I wanted to try it out. After waiting a few days for them to get the part in, they replaced the wiring harness and motor. This was back in May and I haven't had a problem since. I never heard anybody else on this board having this problem, therefore I am starting to wonder if it was really that widespread of a problem that Chevy developed a new redesigned wiring harness, or if the dealer was just trying to make me feel better about waiting a couple days to get the part it. Has anyone else had similar problems.

mlauricella · October 2002

Ron M

What did you end up getting?

cmack4 · October 2002

Mine does the single pass thing as well every once in a blue moon... also when the sun is low on the horizon. I don't think the rear wiper is tied in to the system in anyway though. Mine never kicks on with the auto system, and I personally would find it annoying if it did.

ron_m · October 2002

ficuss,

First of all, the vehicle wasn't an EXT version of the TrailBlazer. It was an LTZ that I purchased before the EXT models became available. Secondly, the salesman at the Lexus dealership where I traded in the TrailBlazer easily figured out WHY I wanted to buy something new. Especially after the fourth or fifth reference that I made to quality issues. For example, "My primary goal is to purchase a high quality vehicle this time."
He obviously didn't care what the deal was with the TrailBlazer LTZ. They'll just send it over to their Chevrolet dealership, clean it up real good, and then sell it for a substantial profit. It does run, but there is a definite engine knock at cold start. It's now the dealership's responsibility to correct any outstanding issues with the TrailBlazer LTZ before attempting to sell it. The next buyer will still have a rather lengthy warranty with it. That's good news for them, because they're DEFINITELY going to need it!

Hello mlauricella! In answer to your question, I purchased a new Lexus IS300 which I love!!! I decided not to go with an SUV for this particular purchase, but do plan on buying an old SUV in a few weeks to take on snow skiing trips. I'll also drive the old SUV to work during inclimate weather conditions. But before I pick up an old SUV, I'm going to have my 1990 Nissan 300ZX painted. It doesn't really look all that bad now, but the vehicle would look like a brand new 300ZX if it were completely repainted. The interior is still basically immaculate.

Take care.

Ron M.

tlauro · October 2002

for those that have had their RainSense kick on during dry times, don't you figure this rare instance could be either bugs or road debris?

mine have only kicked in during sunny or dry weather during dusk...while on the road and when bugs begin to appear most active. once in a while, when driving in construction zones, tiny stones and dust hitting the front of my truck will set it off just the same.

I had my windshield replaced already due to a rock and the sensor is just a gel that is stuck against the window which transmits even the smallest vibration. Not 100% sure, but according to what I've seen and what the tech installing the window said, it's not light sensitive.

tim

scottc454 · October 2002

Tim - Yes.

I questioned the value of rain sensing wipers at first, but now that I've used them, they're great. I have the "one pass" issue occasionally, but the things work so well that when this happens I find myself wondering if a fly crapped on the windshield or something.

It's not really a problem, as I just turn the wipers off. The real value of the system is during very light and/or variable rains.

pepper50 · October 2002

pauleul wrote:
Had service done last week which included rotating the tires. Service department put 3 of 4 center caps on wrong - didn't follow the square peg in square hole concept. Two fell off and are now lost.

Thanks for that info. My wheels are due for rotation, too. I think I'll take off the center caps and leave them at home; that way they won't get lost, stolen, or carelessly scratched up. In past years, I've twice had one missing from another vehicle after visiting tire shops. The first one I noticed too late. It could have fallen off, but I'm suspicious. The next time I knew to inspect it before I left the store, saw one was gone, and asked the tech who said he didn't have it, and I didn't see it lying around anywhere. I then told the manager, and a couple minutes later he walked it out to me; I suspect there was a shakedown. Now when I take that car in for rotation, I tell the salesperson or manager that all 4 center pieces are there, then I inspect it at the end. I bought a used replacement cap for $25, but I bet these painted Triplet caps are more.

cpufixer1 · October 2002

Anyone know how to get rid of the one inch gap between the grill and the bumper ?

xntrick · October 2002

well glad I've been looking under the car to see if there are any leaks. Did miss this one though for about 2 months -- the pinion seal had a leak and so that got fixed yesterday. I do not do many long distance e.g. longer than 1/2 hour trips but did happen to do a 5 hour trip on this occasion and when I returned home saw that there was a couple of drips about a quarter size each (fresh) but some others (not fresh) on the garage floor. How much grease/oil goes into the pinion? Since I plan on buying out the lease on this in a couple of months, can anyone tell me if there is the potential for any long term implications flowing from this leak? The vehicle has a build date of 5/02 and has 7500 miles on it (including a 1400 mile drive down from Canada). Thanks in advance.

cmack4 · October 2002

It could very well be bugs or dust causing the one pass. I've just also noticed that when it does happen, it's normally at dusk.

the functionality of the sensor itself is nothing short of amazing. Once you get it dialed in to your liking, it works absolutely perfectly at adjusting speed based on how heavy it is raining.

Oh... and for a good read on how the technology works, http://fitness.howstuffworks.com/wiper4.htm

tblazed · October 2002

Has anyone had good results from replacing the rear door speakers on a "regular" CD-Cassette stereo? I would like to change out those speakers with something that will reproduce some highs especially. The factory speakers are very lacking in that aspect. Turn the "fader" all the way to rear and hear what I mean...

Found some Sony XS-V1332 3-ways that are reasonably priced and Crutchfield states they will fit. Any ideas?

tblazer503 · October 2002

Bring it in to your service shop....
It probably wouldnt do a whole lot of harm in the short run, but in the long run could eventually damage the PS pump or the rack and pinion assy. Most likely a loose fitting, if not probably expensive, although with all the shrouding protecting the rack, I don't think there are any rocks or anything hitting the unit or lines..
Of course, It could a be coming from the valve cover on the engine....

Just bring it in and see what GM says is wrong.. =o)

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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