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Ford is not stopping production of the Escape and Mariner. Ford is just changing its strategy by switching to Ethanol, the easiest way to earn EPA rating without really cutting gas usage or emission.
The following are two links where I saw the news:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060629/AUTO01/606290380/1148- -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/29/AR2006062901911.- - html
GM's Wagoner recently talked about how hybrid is really "difficult" but is politically correct. He whines and remains skeptical that hybrid is viable.
Have you seen the later HUMMER commercial? They are now marketing it as a red-meat eating "manly-man" car. Gas is >$3 a gallon and all is as before. I would take a "racer-boy" HH over a "manly-man" HUMMER any day.
As I drive our HH everyday, enjoying its capabilities and practicality, I keep asking why we cannot build a car like this. We used to be the innovator, the cutting-edge leaders, making the rest of the world chase after us. Now we are the whiners and whine about how hard this is and that is and how we just cannot build a "better" gas-efficient lower-emission car.
Toyota on the other hand is charging ahead with hybrids. They are behaving like "us" by taking the lead and making it happen. Toyota has announced work on plug-in and biodiesel. I am waiting for their 2-mode gas-electric hybrid truck.
GM is really going to hurt when Toyota comes out with a real 4x4 V8 that tows 6500-lb but gets 25-MPG real-life. I will jump at a chance to buy this truck for our work. I will love to hear what Wagoner will say then about the GM trucks?
thanks
I stand corrected, apologize for the tone of my last posting, and I'm pleased to see Toyota letting us have more control over our world, and letting us take responsibility for our actions!
groovology
If you have ever used snowchains on the 4runner be aware that the HH cannot be fitted with rear snowchains and snowchains only on the front as recommended can be very hazardous.
Lastly, the HH is derived from a FWD based vehicle and as such will be front torque biased even with the AWD model.
Bottom line is that you will be moving from a rear torque biased vehicle to one with radically difference driving dynamics.
So be carefull.
http://www.spikes-spiders.com/
HH is not a true 4x4. It will negotiate dirt road, muddy road and most non-asphalt surfaces that are identifiable as roads. It cannot handle boulders or the RUbicon or a drive up the desert pavement into Johnson's canyon in Death Valley.
If you install good tires (not the stock Goodyear Integrity), the HH is smooth and silent on pavement. Handling is very impressive. We have driven it around many curvy mountain roads, it handles solidly around curves with no sensation of the car leaning at all. This quality continues to please and amaze us each time we drive it up these roads.
Steering is responsive, neither twitchy nor numb, just right for an SUV. Check out this video of the HH doing its thing...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1829251.html
Cargo room behind 3rd bench is tolerable, not great. We can fit 4 large geared-up backpacks (for 10-day back country outing) and one large cooler but that is it. You should go to a dealer, load it up with things you normally carry to see if it suits your needs.
What we lost in cargo room, we gain in maneuverability. It can turn and move through tight spaces easily. Still, 10 more inches of cargo would have been really nice.
View through the rear window (rear mirror) is surprisingly good even when piled full of cargo. We were surprised by how much we can pile on and still have a solid rear view on the road. This comment does not apply when you are backing up in a parking lot.
Seat comfort is for either 4 adults or 5 children (2nd and 3rd rows). Adults will find it difficult to get in and sit in the 3rd row.
A 6+ ft adult will need to adjust the driver seat a bit to get in smoothly. This is my regular gripe. I must have the seat adjusted just so to ease entry and egress. One inch off here and there, my left knee hits the steering wheel getting in.
6-fter can easily sit in all the other seats. We have comfortably fit 2 6-fter in the 2nd bench with a child in the middle. Everyone was comfortable for the 4 hour ride from SF to Redding in CA.
3-rd row has no curtain airbag so putting children and people back there is risky. I find this lapse in feature rather foolish.
It has no tire pressure monitor and yet the VDIM system will not work if the tire pressures are off. This is really dumb. So get a good tire gauge and check the pressure every week.
The FWD version will save you gas. The AWD version rockets you along if you ever need the power.
Break-in can take forever (5000-10000 miles) so you have to set your MPG sight accordingly. I never believed in the new car "break-in" period until this car.
Driving it normally will yield MPG number better than most other comparable SUV in the same class but it will not get you Prius-like MPG. Driving it carefully will yield very good MPG, significantly better than other comparable SUV but still cannot compare against a Prius.
Good luck!
Thanks
Can you help me get rid of the open door buzzer that puts my nerves on edge?
Traditionally, the end of a model year (September give or take a month) is what I've heard is the best time to buy a car. However, I think you can get a good deal anytime of the year if you are a savvy shopper. We bought our HH over Memorial Day weekend, getting it at $4000 off of sticker price, which based on what I can determine is very close to invoice... something unheard of with hybrids even six months prior. My advice is to talk diretly to the fleet or internet sales manager and avoid the lot salespeople whose primary incentive is to sell a car at as high a price as possible.
The fact we got such a big discount suggests to me that they are really trying to move them, however, if they have cut down production in anticipation of the new model, then prices aren't necessarily going to get any better as the supply dwindles... after all, the dealer is in business to sell cars as expensively as possible, and if there is little supply and good demand, he doesn't need to cut his prices. I guess it all depends on how anxious you are to get a car, if you can wait, you can time the market a bit better than if you are forced into an immediate buying decision.
When I asked the dealer specifically about whether or not there were big changes coming for 2007, I was told that "Toyota keeps this information very close to their chest so as not to hurt demand". I think he was probably telling the truth, but that being said, the Highlander body is getting fairly long in the tooth, so a major redesign for 2007 would seem to be due if not overdue.
We're really pleased with our purchase, between the discount and the tax credit, we got a really great vehicle at a really decent price. Without a doubt, a new model will never be as heavily discounted as an older one, so I guess it is a tradeoff between saving some money or having the latest / greatest.
Hope this helps!
He said it with such awe that I tend to believe him.
Anyone else heard of or done this?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/FVDP/Preview/styleId=100531781
Very interesting details you provide, it would make sense that they'd increase the size of the Highlander since the RAV4 is getting much larger... I've mistaken the new Rav 4 for a Highlander on more than one occasion.
Personally, I don't know if I would purchase a Highlander again if it got even bigger. Its already plenty big (and heavy) for me, especially if the new version sacrificed anything in the way of gas mileage.
Its interesting that they are waiting for 2008, I think they will have trouble selling the existing Highlander for another year in its non-hybrid form since there is so much competition in the mid-size SUV realm (Nissan's Murano, Acura MDX are both much newer body styles) and apparently there is a mild hybrid Saturn coming out the end of this year... not that that would be competition for the HH.
So, just for grins, how many forum readers think the FT0-SX concept is attractive, and how many would trade their existing HHs in for the newer body design, or wait for the new one before purchasing?
As for me, I can't look at the car when I'm driving it, so as long as the interior is pleasant (and it is) and it drives nicely (which it does) and it gets good gas mileage (averaged 27MPG with the AC going full blast pretty much all the time during the recent CA heatwave) then I'm a happy camper.
It will be really intersting to see if Toytota can make the 07 Highlander bigger AND improve the gas mileage... and there is reason to believe that they can do it. For example, the MPG per gross vehicle weight ratio in the Prius is 0.0192. You find this by taking the GVW of 2890 lbs and dividing by the average MPG of 55.5. For the Highlander, it is a fairly disappointing 0.0077 (found by dividing 4070 lbs by 31.5 MPG... and its even worse on the 4WD version).
The new Camry, what we would assume is the newest and latest incarnation of synergy drive is a ratio of 0.0106, (3680 lbs divided by 39MPG average). Much closer in its efficiency to the Prius in terms of overall efficiency per pound of vehicle, with the big difference being that the Camry performs much more like a normal vehicle in terms of acelleration compared with the Prius, which is quite pokey.
This would suggest to me that Toyota is improving the possible MPG per pound of vehicle while maintining reasonable acelleration and performance... perhaps the next gen HH will be far superior to teh current? As an owner, I hope not, but it would seem plausible...
Should be interesting...
Post you read wasn't worded clearly on this -- meant to convey there will be an '07 HL that will be based on the current design; the new design will be released as an '08 model, possibly early, in mid 2007.
"So, just for grins, how many forum readers think the FT0-SX concept is attractive, and how many would trade their existing HHs in for the newer body design, or wait for the new one before purchasing?"
I personally don't care for the new "wide grin" FT-SX Murano-style grille design showing up in some new vehicles; my preference is for the existing HL design.
I haven't seen any indication that there will even be an '07 HH, have you? It sounded to me like they were just going to skip to the '08 model and put it out early. I could be wrong.
equation. Aerodynamic drag is a big factor specially for
highway driving.
The Prius has one of the lowest aerodynamic drag coefficients which also makes it look a bit strange.
SUVs are notorious for their high aerodynamic drag
coefficients. That is why the trend is to make it less
boxy and more car-like like the Murano. That will reduce
the drag. However if you do it too much the SUV might
look like an elevated station wagon or a minivan. Now
most people will not want that.
However I agree that Toyota should be able to do better
in the next generation primarily by increasing the battery
and electric motor and decreasing the power of the ICE
to an 150 HP I4 with a combined 0-60 of around 9.5-10 secs. I am hoping for EPA numbers of 40/33. Lets see.
And here I thought the Murano front end was modelled after that HUGE Dodge truck front ends.
".....by increasing the battery and electric motor..."
That would only work if they could provide more downhill highway "coastdown" sections to recharge those bigger batteries for "free".
What the Prius really needs is a small highly efficient onboard inverter type genset (8-10 HP/7KW) running on "home-brewed" CNG to continually recharge the batteries without running the high HP/torque LOW efficiency (comparatively) ICE.
Toyota build-order dates
Regarding the new body and drive system see my comments below on the Future Highlander forum, post #85.
new Highlander?
Your comments on the fuel economy are a neat twist. The new 2.4L +HSD linkage in the TCH is very very efficient. I'd look for the same in the new HH ( and in the new Sienna hybrid in the future ).
But what if the new hybrid model was the base model... the least expensive and most fuel efficient. There'd be a neat trick.
ps: the exposed 10mm screwhead behind each headlight changes its vertical aim
very much like the Murano. The Murano's front grille
maynot be car like but the cab design is quite car like.
Anyway the drag coefficient of a CX-7 in .34 which is
among the lowest for a SUV. The Prius is .26 and the Camry
hybrid is .27. So there is scope of some improvement here.
The Camry hybrid uses a 147 HP 2.4 litre I4 & uses the
Atkinson cycle in the ICE that is more efficient than the
Otto cycle used in most ICE. The Atkinson cycle is also
used in the Prius - but power is sacrificed for fuel
economy. The Camry hybrid ICE will work in the Highlander
but since it will be almost 1000 lbs heavier, the 0-60
will suffer. If it is still within 10sec, it should be OK.
Otherwise little more power might be needed at the cost of
FE.
Also I did not understand what is "home brewed" CNG. Is
it CNG made from the gas connection used in homes for
heating? If this is so then a proper gas dispensing
outlet have to be installed in each home. This may be
costly or a hassle and maynot work for most people. Also
the price of natural gas has skyrocketed last year to
such an extent that many people are now swithching to
electric heat from gas heat. Thus CNG maynot be a cost
effective solution. Anyway it is still fossil fuel and
the less we burn that the better.
Charging bigger batteries through renewable power is
a viable solution (plug-in). Also the regenerative braking in the hybrids is still not very efficient and power is
still lost when the battery is already topped off or
when regenerative power is generated at a higher rate
than what the small battery can absorb. Thus
bigger batteries can still help.
Please read this article that just came out when you
have time:
http://www.teslamotors.com/media/white_papers/Tesla White Paper_2006_07_19.pdf
As for your other post, what you say makes perfect sense and shows alot of insight.
I haven't driven a Toyota Camry Hybrid (I assume that's what TCH is...) but from what I can tell, it delivers really great performance and great efficiency as well. Since the Camry is the real money maker for Toyota, it makes sense that they'd spend the big money developing that power train and then migrate it to other platforms... and at 3600 pounds, its really not that might lighter than the HH, so even with the HH's much worse aerodynamics (as another forum member correctly pointed out) it would probably still be very much drivable...
I'd be shocked if the HH became a base model... everything I'm reading says that Hybrid technology is still a $4 to $5K increase in cost over a standard vehicle; can't believe that Toyota would be willing to take that big a hit in their margins to support a base model price in a Hybrid...
Sienna Hybrid makes perfect sense and will likely be a smash hit. In fact, it probably would have been smarter for them to do the minivan before doing the SUV, but apparently they saw some market opportunity in the SUV hybrid (maybe in response to Ford's licensing deal?)
If the HH were to become a 40MPG vehicle, I would have to say that we'd have to seriously consider trading our '06 HH for the newer model... Okay, maybe not as the economics probably would not recommend taking the depreciation hit, but efficiency is a very addictive thing!
I agree... big efficiencies are on the way (Li Ion batteries for one) but the question is WHEN???
I've been moving a lot of posts out of this one to help get these new discussions rolling, so if you check the discussion list here in the Toyota Highlander Hybrid Group, you'll see new discussion titles including:
New Toyota Highlander Hybrid Owners - Give Us Your Report
Toyota Highlander Hybrid Test Drive - What Did You Think?
Toyota Highlander Hybrid: MPG-Real World Numbers
Toyota Highlander Hybrid: Battery Pack Questions
Highlander Hybrid Navigation System Questions
Highlander Hybrid Accessories & Modifications
Highlander Hybrid Safety & Crash Test Results
Toyota Highlander Hybrid Transmission Questions
Highlander Hybrid Air Conditioning Questions
Highlander Hybrid: Audio & Entertainment Questions
Towing with the Highlander Hybrid
These are all pretty self-explanatory, but old habits are hard to break for all of us
So please remember to check the discussion list before your post to find an appropriate discussion to post in. If you have an issue we need a new discussion for, feel free to create one or click on my user name and send me the suggestion in an email.
I'll continue to move post and post reminders about the new topics as needed. Thanks for your help and understanding while we move the furniture around a bit!
I believe that the $4-$5K figure is far overstated by the 'flatworlders' who may never be convinced. The top of the line TCH with Navi, Leather and heated seats, BT, S/R, et. al. is actually $1000 less than the comparable XLE V6 Camry. :surprise:
I'd put the current 'premium' under $2000... possibly even approaching $1000.
I figure it is $37,890 MSRP ($33,944 Fac Inv), plus the 2k Nave system and $334 for spoiler for a $$40,223 MSRP, probably $36k Factory price.
Of course I won't get the $2,700 tax credit, but that even finding a new 06 with the options I want (I probably wouldn't get the NAV option) could be difficult.
My other concern is what the 07 model will be. Same style or changed, better MPG, power read lift, etc. Who knows.
What are anyone's thoughts?
The good news versus an 07 is that you are getting rid of much of the initial depreciation by buying something used, so I really doubt you'll be able to touch an 07 HH similarly equipped for anywhere near $30K, but like you say, Who knows?
Oh,....
Hybrid...
Standard automotive horns use a fairly high current electromagnetic and therefore generate one hell of a lot of electrical NOISE, in-circuit and radiated, that might interfere with the onboard stuff.
I don't think there will be any changes on the '07 model versus the '06.
I met with a sales manager yesterday, and they have some info on the 07 Highlander. The model design does not change (as we thought it would not). I was only talking to him about the hybrid limited, but I think it applies to all limited's. They expect the price will fall 7%, BUT, the 3rd seat will be an option (about $1,400) and leather will also be an option ($ ??). So the 7% drop is probably really a reduction of standard equipment. But if you don't want the 3rd row anyway, or leather, could be a savings.
I figure that if I factor in cost of loan and loss of interest for 36 months on the used car (11k miles), actual cost would be 35,740 incl sales tax. With the new car, factor in interest on keeping my money for that 36 months instead of paying it out, my actual cost would be 32,307.
Probably go for the new car.
Any other news on trim or styling changes?
So cud u tell me how to activate the "automatic door lock" function when car has reached a certain speed (15 mph?).
Change thread title, if u like; don't know how.
Terry
I'll have dealer do it.
Terry
I wrote to Toyota, http://toyota.custhelp.com, asking about the Auto Door Lock Feature (when the vehicle reaches a set speed). The Highlander Hybrid iGuide says this can be programmed by the dealer. Here is their response:
The Highlander Hybrid i-Guide was published before the Highlander Hybrid went into production. Toyota planned to offer the automatic door locking feature on the Highlander Hybrid Limited Model only. However, the automatic door locking feature was not an option once the vehicle went into production.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.