Toyota Highlander Hybrid

dunwoody

Looking through the Highlander Hybrid thread, I see that some people are taking the scientific approach to determining their MPG (data, spreadsheets, etc.).

Does anyone know how accurate/reliable the average MPG calculation that is calculated by the onboard computer? My 2006 HH is reporting average mileage of between 25 - 26.

terryp2

My manually calculating of MPG for 2006 HH has been consistently 1 MPG less than the car computer readout; pretty good, I think. FYI, for around town, east of Tampa, my mileage has been consistently 27 - 28 MPG (car readout, so actually 26 - 27).

Terry

tpatin

Does anyone know where I can purchase an EV switch for my 2006 Highlander Hybrid? I understand that these come standard on European and Japanese models. I was once told that coastaletech.com would offer them, but I'm tired of waiting for them to get around to it.

Any suggestions? Anyone know of an on-line source for this item--maybe from a European source?

gazguzler

Just heard an interview with Robert Redford on NPR (Diane Rheem) where he was asked which car he drives (as he's an environmentalist). He said he's on a waitlist for an HH. The wife and I high5ed . . . partialy because even he has to wait for one :-)

mmreid

I just read an interview last week (I think - been traveling so I lose track of time) with Paul Newman who said he owned a Prius and a hybrid SUV but he didn't mention which one (and a third car was a Volvo I think). Anybody know which one? I know a lot of celebrities do make a big deal that they drive a Prius (like Bill Maher and Susan Sarandon).

baseballdad

Hi! I'm just curious. We live in Arkansas and bought a 2005 prius in October of 05. We have worked really hard constantly monitoring the screen to improve mileage but it seems as though we are destined to average around 47. I have talked with quite a few other prius owners here and they are all reporting mpg equal to what we are getting. What's the secret to getting 50+? No one here is getting that!

Thanks!

wwest

And just who, what, was it that led you to believe 50+ was achieveable...??!!

2003 Prius, 1700 gallons, 42.93 MPG.

kdhspyder

After the initial break-in period from Nov - Feb ( winter months ) I've been consistently running at 50.5 mpg during the milder weather.

Could you describe your particular type of driving and the types of trips you make? Duration, terrain, speeds.

Mine for example is 75 mi each way to work then home at sea level on nearly flat terrain at an average of 60 mph Hwy ( 85% ) and 35-40 mph City ( 15% ).

If you are consistently running at 75 mph on the Hwy your 47 mpg is just about dead on what it should be.

For info, if you havent already done so, look at the database at GreenHybrid. The median for all drivers is just under 48 mpg. with the middle 50% being in the 45-50 mpg range. You seem to fall right there. For the 2003 Gen I Prius noted just above the middle 50% of reports ranges from 43 - 47.5 mpg so that too seems in order.

650vac

I changed my oil today and noticed what appeared to be a clear plate next to the oil filter that let me look inside the water jacket. Does anyone know why this is there? What is the purpose of the water seal? Does it function as a freeze plug?

Thanks,
Greg

deserthh

When I tow my boat and haul my crew, the headlights on my '06 HH Limited aim high causing oncoming traffic to flash. Anyone have any experience adjusting headlight?

upstateny5

I'm really using this as an excuse to see if this forum is still active - sales were up but the Highlander slipped. Rav4 sales more than doubled.

cdptrap

Big slip in HH sales.

Ford abandoned their Hybrid effort and will switch to make E85 cars instead. I read somewhere that there are enough E85-capable cars on the road to use almost all our Ethanol production but 90% of these cars are running on gasoline. Sure hope that is wrong.

We are waiting for Toyota's 2-mode tranny Hybrid to show up in the Tundra and Tacoma next year. It will be fantastic to drive a real 4x4 working truck that gets 30-mpg!

upstateny5

By Bary Alyssa Johnson

In February, Hymotion unveiled the Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) technology for hybrid cars: Users can charge their PHEV batteries in any normal 120V outlet, enabling a hybrid car to travel longer distances solely on battery power and resulting in fuel efficiencies reaching 100 mpg.

The kit, expected within a year, is under development for the Lexus Rx400h, Toyota Highlander hybrid, and Toyota Camry hybrid.

sjbob

Hello All,

Anyone know if Toyota is doing upgrades to the HH computer operating system? The reason I ask is because it is software.. and like any software the manufacturer must come up with changes or improvements that could impact mileage. For example - I live in a tropical climate where the temperature almost never goes below 70 degrees and can get up into the 90's. Would this suggest a different type of programming to maximize mileage than say, an HH in Colorado or other colder climate like the Northeast? My mileage has not been what I hoped for. I practice the best mileage saving techniques of driving (trying to use less A.C. & electricity in general; keeping the speed below 60MPH; slow acceleration and gradual slowdowns, etc. and still the best I get would be around 22-23 MPG here in the coastal areas of Puerto Rico. Wondering if an algorithm tuned to this climate might make a difference. BTW - I know it's nice to have the driving lights on for safety, but they do use electricity and I'm curious A) How much power saving I would get if they were off during the day and How to shut them off??

Thx!

- Bob

wwest

You can "modify" the climate control firmware (ROMMED software) yourself in order to improve FE. Just run it at the max cool position and then use the blower speed to regulate, set, your cabin comfort level. That procedure will bypass the airflow reheat/remix cycle and thereby result in a dramatic reduction in the number and duration of A/C compressor cycles.

sjbob

I forgot to mention.. the model I have is the standard model... no climate control :-( ... so I control the temperature and level of cooling the old fashioned way... I do it myself... I wish I had the limited edition but couldn't justify the extra $5k ... not to mention they weren't available when I bought mine in 05.. What I was wondering about is the algorithm they use to decide when the gas motor switched on and off.. if there was some improvement that could be made for the climate and driving conditions here. Thx for the tip anyway! - bob

wwest

The advice still applies. Any "cooling" control position other than MAX results in a portion of the CHILLED airflow from the evaporator being routed through the heat cycle and then remixed to attain the temperature level of the final outflow air that you desire.

sjbob

But does the compressor cycle off when a certain cooling point is reached? I thought that the compressor kept running as long as the AC is in the ON position.. It's hard to tell as I don't have any indicator in the dash and can't hear it very well in the cabin. In any case the only time I have it set to less than max is when I'm using it to defrost the windshield - If I cool it too much on a humid night moisture collects outside that has to be cleared with the wipers. So mild dehumidified air works well to clear the inside without causing condensation outside. But my sense about the overall efficiency of the vehicle is that the gas motor is turning on more frequently than it has to - It seems as though it turns on when you hit 30 MPH regardless of whether the charge is sufficient or not. Why not let the electric motor drive the vehicle a bit faster and only turn on the gas when the battery charge hits a certain low threshold? Maybe I could hit 50 MPH on a downward slope without the gas.. Was also wondering if the warm weather should make a difference as to how the charge/discharge cycle is regulated.. - Bob

gazguzler

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13833907/

shilohlady

Bob - 22 to 23 MPG seems low to me based on how you say you're driving. Have you checked that the 'ISC Learn' process was complete? There have been reports that some were delivered with this incomplete. To check for sure would require going to the dealer an having them check however I believe that starting it and letting it sit idling until fully warmed up then driving a short while before shutting down will accomplsih the process. While it may sacrifice FE during the process, if it improves the overall operation, probably worth it.

cdptrap

Hi Bob,

The following is just what we see in our HH.

But my sense about the overall efficiency of the vehicle is that the gas motor is turning on more frequently than it has to -
Do check the ISL processor as Shilolady suggested. Or it may just be the irritating "break-in" period.

... It seems as though it turns on when you hit 30 MPH regardless of whether the charge is sufficient or not. Why not let the electric motor drive the vehicle a bit faster and only turn on the gas when the battery charge hits a certain low threshold?
Our HH would turn on the ICE (gas engine) at around 25 MPH for the first 5K miles no matter what. From 5K to 7.5K, the ICE would turn on at 30-MPH no matter what. From 7.5K to about 10K, it turned on the ICE at a hair over 35-MPH all the time. It was really irritating and puzzling, we had the same reaction you do now.

Since breaking the 10K miles mark, we can now regularly drive on full electric up to 39 MPH. This is over the same road that used to turn on the ICE. I cannot say the same will happen to your HH but it is likely.

It is also a lot easier now to start rolling on full electric from a start and work the speed up to 25 or 30 MPH on full electric. Either I am getting good at it or the gas pedal is finally loosening enough or the car is still breaking in. We have been very cautious and ginger with this car, that may have something to do with it.

sjbob

Forgive my ignorance but what is the ISC Learn Process? Is this a system that adjusts the vehicles fuel handling system based on the way you drive??? (wow - How cool is that?) The miles I've put on the vehicle are low... haven't hit 6K yet in the first year of operation. Maybe it hasn't "learned" how to handle our terrain yet.. hmmm. OH yes.. and I think I will, uhh - chk the tire pressure today to make sure they aren't low... I know that would affect FE. I will be bringing it to the dealer soon and would like to give them some good questions. The "ISC Learn Process" check is a good one. But I guess to this point no one has heard of an O.S. upgrade (you know.. like they do for Windows XP..) THX! - Bob

wwest

Other than to charge the battries or move the vehicle the ICE will come on if the catalytic converter begins to cool too low, or to keep the engine water jacket HOT enough for the A/C reheat/remix cycle.

The A/C compressor will only run until the high side refrigerant pressure rises to a set level or the evaporator surface temperature is low enough that the condensed moisture will begin to freeze.

katzjamr

The one thing no one has asked is how long are your trips. If you have only put 6000 miles on your vehicle in one year i would guess they are short. This is the number one reason for poor gas mileage on both the HH and the 400h.

kdhspyder

This is a great point. Even though you are in perfect weather all the time the single worst deterrent to good fuel economy is short trips. But this is true of all vehicles. The reason is that the ICE half of the vehicle doesn't have a chance to warm up to allow you to get good FE. My own estimate is that short trips reduce FE by 15-20% overall.

In a Prius normally getting 50 mpg it might be 40 mpg. In a HH getting 27 mpg it might be 22 mpg. Are your normal trips 10-15 min?

wwest

Amazing, absolutely AMAZING...

In comparison to comparable non-hybrids our Prius gets absolutely STELLAR FE in stop and go driving and basically "middle of the road", even poor, FE in the highway. In city stop and go driving there is lots of opportunity to recharge the hybrid battery via regenerative braking whereas on the highway the ICE must be used to restore the battery charge.

But I guess that's the difference between the Prius, designed for FE, versus the HH and RXh, designed more for "boy-racer" mentality.

I wonder if the new Camry hybrid system can be transplanted to my 2001 RX300..??

kdhspyder

I've been meaning to pose this to you since you seem to have a techniclal knowledge of Toyota's engines and trannies which I don't.

Is there a technical limitation in using the PSD from the Prius, HH, TCH in a non-hybrid vehicle. Obviously there is no reason to 'split' the output of the ICE to drive the wheels and charge the battery but couldn't all of the output the ICE be directed through the PSD to the wheels.

This would give the Corolla's, Camry's and Avalons a true CVT but I don't know if there are any limitations.

Your comments?

I too get great FE in stop and go traffic as opposed to my previous Camry's and other ICE vehicles but short 10 min trips hurts the Prius FE by a huge margin no matter the type of driving. I can lose 15-20% of my 'normal' fuel economy as opposed to a 30 min trip where I'm currently at 51 mpg, whether highway or city.

sjbob

Yes it is true that my most frequent drives are around 15 minutes. I have noticed that on longer drives the FE does improve, but still not what I expected from the pre-sale publicity. I wonder if a smaller gas engine would have made a difference in FE. Although I like having the power I would have gladly sacrificed some of the pickup to get better mileage. But at this point I just want to do whatever I can to max out FE given my driving conditions.. - Bob

wwest

And a PSD is....??

mroczka

Does anyone know what would be the correct tire pressure for the HH limited. Some say check the tire and it will say how much, others check the manual, A mechanic says all his cars have 33#, also has anyone noticed the tape on the bottom of the rear door in the corner. Why is it there because its the same color as the HH. Frank

PF_Flyer

Hard to say without seeing it, but I'm guessing the tape is a clear tape to prevent chipping. I was looking at a new car the other day and saw an L-shaped piece of clear tape at the bottom back corner ot the rear door. When I got down to take a closer look, the salesman told me that the manufacturer had probably noticed excessive paint chipping in that area during tests and added a bit of protection.

cdptrap

A friend who owns a FWD HH reports 29-MPG on average in his daily commute of 65 miles round trip, 65% freeways, 35% city. THis is SF South Bay area along the 101-85 corridor. If FE is important and you must buy an SUV, and you always drive on paved surfaces, get the HH FWD.

For those who need AWD for various reasons, the FE is still impressvie when we compare it against vehicles like Tahoe, Explorer and other mid-size from Mercedes, Honda, BMW, Acura, Hyundai, etc. They are getting anywhere from 9- to 20-MPG while HH is ranging anywhere from 22- to 30-MPG. For those who do not need true 4x4, the HH is perfect because of its wide performance range.

The new generation HH should offer plug-in, new Lithium-Ion batteries and at least 2 flavors of engines. One with I4 for people who do not intend to tow anything over 1500-lbs and do not mind getting the 2-ton car up to 65-MPH in 10-11 seconds. This flavor should return close to 30-MPG real life.

Another flavor should be the current V6 for those who tow up to 3500-lbs and want a faster moving 2-ton car. This flavor should get anywhere from 27 to 29 MPG in real life depending on terrain and usage and plug-in frequencies.

It will be a bad mistake for Toyota to offer only an I4 version of the HH in the future.

nomorebenz

PF is correct. I went as far as putting this film all over the front facing areas as well as on the rear bumper. 3M scotchcal, and ventureshield are the most popular.

kdhspyder

The Power Split Device that in the HSD vehicles replaces the traditional transmission.

newski3

Does either the 3M or Ventureshield come in a "clear" color? I figure that would be the only way one could get a "perfect" color match.

landdriver

To my knowledge the clear is the only color they come in -- once affixed to the vehicle it looks like the color of the vehicle.

wwest

Oh,....

The PSD is nothing more than an open differential with the ICE driving one input shaft and an electric motor driving the other. With both turning the "same" direction the result is additive at the output shaft. "Opposite" directions and they are "subtractive". With equal RPM and opposite direction and there is no "output".

So the PSD would be inoperative absent a serious level of variable frequency AC power to drive the electric motor.

nomorebenz

Yes it's clear and it is designed to let as much light in and out as possible. This allows your paint that is underneath to fade at the same rate as the rest of the car.
When I first put it on, my wife asked me a week later "when" I was going to get that clear bra I was talking about. She was surprised when I told her it was already on. No one notices it until I tell them about it. Don't get me wrong though, it is visible. However, you can't see it past 5 feet or if the car is moving. Nobody would notice it on racing cars except for the fact that they print their sponsors logos on the stuff. The stuff is sold by many companies under different names.

newski3

I tried to find some at "PEP BOYS" yesterday, but no luck. Guess I'll try "Auto Zone" today. I'd like to look at the product before buying which makes me want to avoid mail order. Where did you find yours?
Thanks.

nomorebenz

It's really expensive material (I think around $8 a linear foot and up). Chain stores probably won't have it. You can find it online or at a local tint shop. I had my local tint shop do mine. It was $475 for full bumpers front and rear(thicker material on rear), headlights, mirrors, hood, grill, fender fronts.

Here is a site with some good pic's of an install.
http://www.swedespeed.com/news/publish/Features/article_161.html

You can also check the ventureshield and 3M websites for more info on the products.

deserthh

My '93 ES300 is the first vehicle I owned with plastic headlight covers. These covers have become so hazy, due to road debris that even with new halogen capsules; the light output remains noticeably dim. I purchased and applied precut 3M plastic headlight covers to my HH (got these from Auto Sport, $47 for a set). I hope that these will take the brunt of the road debris and prevent any hazing.

nomorebenz

I talked to my tint guy about this when I got mine. He said the current material is more resistant to haze than that of the past. There is also a technique using a heat gun to restore the lustre on abraded material.

2006rsx

Those headlight lenses can be buffed out. Or do it yourself. Remove the lights first. Then start with 600 grit wet/dry paper and work your way up to 1200, and finally 1500 grit. Then polish/wax. They won't exactly look "new" but you can easily make a huge improvement with the investment of a few hours and about $5 in supplies.

newski3

Yesterday (7/21/06) I attended a "New Toyota Car Buyer's Q&A" session at the dealer where I bought my HH. There were about 10 new owner's (I think I was the only HH owner) in the session. Anyway, I asked about the HH's computer learning mode and could he reset it back to factory default. To my surprise, the "Manager of Service" said that actually ALL new Toyotas, not just the Hybrids, have a learning mode, and yes, he could reset it. But he further said that it is always learning and that it takes 6 cycles (I believe he meant 6 times for the ignition switch to be turned on and off) to complete a relearn cycle. So, my guess is that the suggestion to start the car, let it warm up, then drive a short distance trying to stay in electric mode as long as possible, then stopping the car and shutting off the engine --- repeating a total of six times, will "reprogram" the learning mode. But to think about it, it will "relearn" again when you start to drive your "normal" way, so what's the use??

wwest

He more likely said 6 "SECONDS".

Driver related, driving style/type, "learned" memories are erased each time you turn off the ignition. Once you start the vehicle in motion within a very short period the computer has "binned" your driving style in one of four "rough" categories. Shortly thereafter it will farther refine your driving style into one of sixteen categories.

After that it will keep ~3 minutes of running memory and will revise your categorization if the need arises.

Until designers find a way to figure "who" is currently driving the vehicle is will always be so.

martharhoades

Where did you hear Ford abandoned their hybrid effort? What about the Excape and the Mariner?

dnich35

Are there any options available via the computer system related to the seatbelt sensor's warning alarm? I would like to keep the warning light, but turn off the beeping. Thanks.

groovology

There is absolutely no way Toyota would offer or authorize something like this, because in the event of an accident, they would be liable for the modification to the safety system.

I am shocked by the fact that a good third of the manual is now about safety systems, warnings, disclaimers, and other legal verbage that is designed only to deflect possible litigation as a result of an accident or incompetence on the part of the driver.

Most Toyotas even have "black boxes" that are admissable as evidence in event that they are taken to court... the black box saves the state of the engine management and telemetry sensors (RPM, speed, brake status, safety systems (airbags, stability controls) steering wheel angle, etc.) prior to impact. This allows Toyota to defend themselves if you were driving too fast, if you didn't have control of the vehicle, or of any of the safety systems had been comprimised at the time of the impact!

Sadly, in this litigious society, companies are obsessed with CYA, and as long as customer continue to blame the companies for their irresponsibility, this kind of thing will get even more pronounced. Certainly some companies do create products that are defective or seriously flawed as a result of bad design and they need to be held accountable, but some of the cases are quite ridiculous, like suing ski gear manufacturers because you are injured when you ski into a tree.

I personally think it is a bit sad that anyone would ever drive a vehicle without their seatbelts, and I have also been annoyed by putting my laptop or a bag of groceries and having the passenger seatbelt warning beeper and light pester me ad infinatum. However, if it saves even one life, it is probably worth it.

Bottom line: leave the safety systems in your Highlander alone.

jbollt

There is absolutely no way Toyota would offer or authorize something like this, because in the event of an accident, they would be liable for the modification to the safety system.

Hmmm...In the owners manual for my brand new 07 Camry Hybrid, it speaks about being able to do what I believe is just what the poster asked for ....disabling the warning reminder chimes/buzzer for the seat belts.

dnich35 ...I don't know if this option is available on your HH, but you could try http://www.toyotaiguide.com/

deserthh

Yes, I always wear my seatbelt except during the following occasions (when the vehicle is ON):
pulling-out my wallet (typically thru drive-ins)
the drive between where I pick-up my mail and home
backing-up my boat

While the chime is active for under a couple of minutes, it is more that I will put up with.

from the factory service manual:

Steps (you must be sitting in the corresponding seat)

1 Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2 Press the ODO/TRIP switch until the odometer displays "ODO".
3 Turn the ignition switch off. Turn the ignition switch off.
4 Turn the ignition switch to the ON position. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
5 Press the ODO/TRIP switch immedeately (within 6 seconds) and hold it down for 10 seconds or more.
6 Continue holding down the ODO/TRIP switch and fasten the driver side seat belt.
7 Check that the odometer displays either "SEAT BELT BUZZER ON" or "SEAT BELT BUZZER OFF"
8 Press the ODO/TRIP switch to change the display to "SEAT BELT BUZZER OFF".
9 Turn the ignition switch off.
10 Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
11 Check that no buzzer sounds.

Pulling battery power will reset to factory default. The seatbelt warning lamp is not affected.