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Comments
To directly address some of your questions:
The A/C system is good and runs purely on electric. It does use up energy (your MPG will be less, by how much I don't know). However, when you're waiting for the kids to come out of school, with the A/C running, the engine will shut off and come back on only when the batteries need charging.
On the Highway I get 28MPG in slow moving traffic (20-30mph)
The NAV system is not the latest generation from toyota. This one is touch screen but not Voice-activated.
Last but not least, this is the last year of this model. Next years should be bigger (and maybe uglier) and soon to join it will be the Sienna Minivan which you may prefer over an SUV. Here's a link http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-sienna-minivan-hybrid.html
Good luck and whatever you choose I hope it's a Hybrid.
Very true... unless you need the space of a minivan.
Thanks for being a loyal Toyota hybrid owner. Hope you are enjoying the HH.
OK.. So these numbers disspointed me and were a surprise. What I've been wondering is if the computer program that controls when the motor turns on or off might need an update, or if something might be wrong.. In general I like the car but I am not to pleased with these results. On the other hand I know Prius drivers getting mileage in the mid-forties.. I don't expect that but this is way different from what I expected.
Bob
I'm having the same issue with my brand new HH. We are on our second gas tank and it is only averaging 20.7 miles to the gallon.
Thanks,
David
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/05/17/used_compacts/
mmreid
I would have taken hers if the price to me was in the $16000 range iso $21000+
I'm new to the forum, but not new to Hybrids. We've had a Prius for almost a year, and we absolutely love it. I'm in the market for another car, and we are leaning towards the Highlander Hybrid.
I have a simple question to ask... if you had it all to do over again, would you purchase the HH again? I've spoken to a couple of owners who all feel really positive about it, but on some other review sites they criticize the mileage and aren't so sure they made a good purchase decision, thinking that they would have been better off with the non-hybrid 2WD...
Any opinions would be appreciated...
Thanks
groovology
This vehicle is pumped up with extra options probably to mask the current cost of the Synergy drive, (I read somewhere that this one was more efficient than the Prius not that it matters.) I think we would have been happier with the cost if the options included better electronics, specifically a Gen.5 Nav like the latest prius, autodoor locks, rear view cam etc.
All that being said:
1/3 of Highlanders sold are hybrids currently.
I don't miss my 5.0l Mercedes ML w/seven seats in terms of power or MPG(10-12)
I do enjoy this vehicle everyday I drive it and I am very satisfied.
But if you look around at what Toyota/Lexus is doing currently with the hybrid synergy drive its pretty obvious that they have forsaken the FE issue in favor of appealing to the "boy-racer" down there in the id of many of us.
I'm not sure we can blame them, I have always said that I doubted that the Prius drive system could be upscaled to a heavier vehicle such as the HH or RXh insofar as fuel economy is concerned.
To be fair it does appear that the laws of physics and the EPA were operating against them. No Atkinson engine cycle due to the need to keep the catalyst up to optimum operating temperature.
An electric A/C motor does no good if you simultaneously need a hot water source to modulate the A/C air outlet temperature....
Personally I would love to see an LS series with the V6 GS series hybrid system, but given their current "boy-racer" mindset I guess that will never happen.
Right now it looks as if my next purchase will be the RDX. A really STELLAR AWD system and a highly economical I4 provided one can keep your foot out of the turbo.
The Camry Hybrid uses just that. 2.4L 4cyl Atkinson cycle, 40 mpg city...No boy racer here. Around 190 hp...between the ICE 2.4L and the 3.5L V6
Our HH gets >30 MPG in city driving at speed below 35-MPH on relatively flat road. This is easily achieved with a mix of full-electric only run followed by low-power gas engine run to recharge. On freeway, it gets anywhere from 22 to 28 depending on speed and terrain. We are conservative and relaxed drivers, not the youthful whipper-snapper zip-zip type. On average, 22-26 in the Winter with 24+ the norm; 26-29 in warmer (>55-F) weather with 28+ the norm.
I believe you pay for what you get in this case, so discussing the "Premium" thing is unhelpful. It is more important to focus on how it impacts your driving preference.
For those who want good gas-mileage but also want to just drive without thinking about gas-mileage, a smaller engine car, regardles of whether it is a hybrid and regardless of price, is almost always the best choice. Theoretically, a well designed smaller engine should use less gas even when it is working hard, so one can drive wihthout a care about MPG.
For those who are willing to learn and then vary driving styles accordingly, the HH offers great flexibiiy. It can get stellar in-town mileage with relaxed driving as mentioned ealier or it can rocket up a mountain freeway at posted speed carrying a full load. The driver decides when to use all or little of its power.
You do have to be careful about a small engine on a larger car. We have a 194-hp V6 3650-lb Sienna and when fully loaded, it cannot take mountain freeway at posted speed of 65-MPH. So forget passing slow lumbering 18-wheelers when there are other cars. If you hardly ever drive mountain freeways, this becomes unimportant.
Now the next iterations of the Highlander and Sienna will be interesting. From a sales and volume perspective I'd love to see the same 2.4L + HSD in both vehicles, again getting decent V6 power but Corolla FE. Are the vehicle too heavy for that? Dunno. Is there a next Gen HSD under wraps for these two vehicles? Dunno.
I am fairly certain that there is something brewing in San Antonio on the next Tundra. Whether it's the HSD or something entirely different for Big Rigs? Dunno on that either.
What would be a great improvement in the future would be to give the HiHy a more fuel efficient ICE. I don't need 268 HP. Give me enough HP to merge safely on an interstate and to safely pass on a two lane road and I would be happy. In my opinion about 200HP would fill the bill.
Would love to see a 2.4L for the van. Real-life 30-MPG or better will be fantastic. If the '06 HH had a 2.4L HSD option, we would have bought that version. We were pleasantly surprised by the performance of the '06 HH but we would gladly trade that muscle for more mileage and the AT-PZEV rating.
...next Tundra. Whether it's the HSD or something entirely different for Big Rigs?...
If Toyota makes a true 4x4 "2-mode" HSD Tundra with a full bed, tows 5000-lbs, gets real-life average of 26-MPG (EPA 29 MPG), priced no more than the HH and gets SULEV II or AT-PZEV, we will trade or sell all our Chevy V8's and buy the Tundra.
Real-life full-size tough working trucks is where domestic companies still win for now. We looked at the GM "hybrid Wannabe" (engine shut-off only) last year and were just completely disgusted. GM is finally getting the message by working with Mercedes on a 2-mode now.
Thanks for offering opinions on purchasing an HH a second time around. Nice to know that no one regrets having made the leap. It is definitlely the front runner for me right now. Pity they all get packed with every conceivable port-installable option on the planet. I understand their desire to make as much money on every vehicle they sell, but I simply have no interest in paying $200 for a glass breakage sensor (I think I can figure out when the glass is broken myself, thanks), and $450 for running boards (adding weight that only takes away from the gas mileage!)
So if I can find one suitably equipped I'll make the plunge. I'm still worried about the occasional report of low 20s MPG... this is worse than the Benz it will be replacing, so hopefully I'll get a "good one". I'm not naive enough to think I'll get EPA, but our Prius consistently gets between 48 and 52 MPG in mixed driving, essentially bracketing the freeway mileage. So if I get 26 to 30 on average with the HH, I'll be very happy, especially given the incredibly pickup the HH has when you need it, UNLIKE the Prius, which simply has nobody home if you stomp on it!
Thanks for your opinions everyone.
Groovology
"I simply have no interest in paying $200 for a glass breakage sensor (I think I can figure out when the glass is broken myself, thanks)"
UdoKnow that it's part of the alarm system to detect glass breakage when you're not there . . . to work out that you're car is being stolen after you've parked it?
Ha, then I could say, "why do I need an alarm to tell me that my car is stolen. when I go out to my parking spot, I can see that my car is gone." :P
Having experienced what the VDIM could do on our HH (in snow/ice and in dry condition), I can see how it probably (no guarantee) could have saved this particular SUV from this incident. The VDIM would have engaged traction control and the brakes when the SUV first hit the slippery shoulder. That would have saved the driver from panicking. If the driver panicked anyway and attempted to adjust too radically, it would have made the sharp steer to the RIGHT practically impossible while it continued to brake the car in order to maintain control.
The SUV would most likely just come to a hard stop on the shoulder with everyone having only a big scare. If nothing else, the video vividly shows how vulnerable SUV's are to rolling over.
I'm using this situation to point out how important the traction of the rear wheels is. Everyone please pay attention to to the tire pressure of any vehicle you ride in. I use the kick test on the sidewall when I don't have a pressure gauge.
In this case, the flip was the result of 1) Speed 2 a tie)High center on gravity 2) traction from the pavement getting to the front wheels before the rear wheels.
I've had anti skid since my 2000 ML, it would have helped to but not as well as the VDIM. The VDIM would have encouraged turning into the skid by decreasing the effectiveness of turning to the right as CDTrap pointed out.
The lesson here is turn into the skid and keep the speed down.
The worst days in the Syracuse ER were the bright sunny summer days
Sorry for long delay, just drove down to dealership today and checked on the seat cover for you.
Usable news:
It is made by Seat Cover Factory (link below).
http://www.seatcoverfactory.com/
They custom fit to Electric-Heat seats, with and without side airbags and so on. Please be very careful of the exact model if you decide to buy from them. They are a perfect fit for our seats.
Installation though is a bit of a pain because of all the straps and velcro that must be pressed into various open seams between seat cushions. And you must do this perfectly correct on the front seats because there are openings for the seat mounted airbags. Having the openings in the wrong place can prevent full deployment of the airbags. The sales guy told me this umpteen times when I bought it. But once they are in place, the cover fits tight.
Will I buy again? Yes if they are the only perfect-fit available. NO, if there are other perfect fit whose installation is a lot easier.
Bad news:
Dealership charges $185!!!
I asked how come we paid a cheap $35?? Service guy told me it is most likely used then returned by a customer with damage or missing pieces. I just checked the covers again and sure enough, the seatback pockets on both front seat covers have been cut off and unusable. We never use the seatback pockets so we never even noticed the rip.
Hope this helps a little.
Mike
Consumer Report just gave an interview to a local paper and continues to talk about how the HH is really poor in mileage in their testing. CR really dropped the ball this time around. Their testing approach must be really fouled up. Looks like the market is showing CR wrong too.
Would do it all over again.
Will I buy it again? If there are no better choices? Absolutely.
However as for most buyers looking somehow to save a buck to pay for tuition and braces and meet the mortgage payments it is correct also to direct them to a less expensive option altogether than a $30K+ SUV that happens to save a few hundred bucks a year on fuel. A 4 y.o. Certified Used Highlander for $16K is more cost effective for this buyer.
If they made this clarifying statement, which I do everyday to potential buyers, then the misuse of CR's intent ( Goofball O'Reilly and Rush ) would IMO be reduced or eliminated.
I do believe that the on board ENERGY GRAPHIC (Nav) is about 1 mpg high by cross checking with actual "gas in" and miles traveled.
While I'm at it, I have noted that the energy graphic sometimes shows some wierd energy flow combinations; Ones that I don't believe are possible. For example:
-- ICE driving front wheels and the motor/generator showing that it is assisting in driving the front wheels while at the same time it is recharging the hybrid battery (I see this only in short bursts of time, say one or two seconds). My knowledge of the mg set is that this is impossible. It is acting either as a moter OR as a generator but not both at the same time.
-- I have seen times that the KW meter shows a clockwise position (meaning that the mg set is acting as a motor and helping to drive the front wheels) while at the same time the graphic shows that the hybrid motor is being recharged.
I reasoned that the graphic MIGHT be the result of switch positions that may not be reprsentative of the actual energy flow?? For example, I can be stopped at a red light with only soft pressure on the brake and the graphic wheels are still rotating slightly. The graphic wheels stop if I press just a little harder on the brake pedal.
On the mileage - We were going camping 5 people 3 days gear. Behind schedule I threw in the towel on the current tank of gas. So, hurriedly climbing, twisting winding, roads from elevation of 1200 to 4600 we still got 22 mpg (26 for whole tank) and it handled great! Our friends waiting for us couldn't believe our timing. fyi return trip was 35 mpg.
Lately, in answering friends and neighbors, it seems to really catch their attention when I say the HH uses no gas when cruising the shopping mall parking lot or garages, no gas when idling waiting curbside, no gas crawling at a toll plaza, no gas in traffic jam and certainly no gas on any steep enough downhill. And, I told them, you can keep the A/C running without the engine running! That really really impresses them given we are about to hit 90+ in a day or two.
Somehow, people only focus on the ICE shutting off at traffic lights but nowhere else.
We did a 20 mile down hill drive 66.9 mpg. Our kids school is 1/2 mile away. If the batteries are good & charged we get 99 mpg for the leisurly drive. (Of course it takes 2 extra minutes).
The wife & I like to creep up to a look out point & enjoy the city lights (and our ice cream). The neighbors never even know we are there.
Like one of our friends said it's like having a new pet in the family.
I believe in the hybrid system (look at most locomotive companies and you'll realize they believe in it as well). For me, the electrical part is the most important part. The ice is secondary. The ICE will benefit from the prevailing technology, whether it be Hydrogen, E85, Diesel etc.
What I would not want to see is a loss of interest in Any Hybrid because of the ICE that it offers.
My dealer stated there was no alarm system on my limited. I called Toyota with the VIN. They said it has an alarm, gave me a reference number and told me to call if it was not on the car. Luckily it was on the car.
Generally JBL will not confer with you on this other than to refer you to Toyota; you need to take it up with Toyota.
Looking at the '01 non-hybrid electrical manual no distinction is made in the wiring diagram between the 1-disk and 6-disk JBL systems, which implies the connections are the same, but this isn't definitive.
Hopefully Toyota will resolve this to your satisfaction.
- the NAV on the HiHy does not include Bluetooth. right ?
- does the NAV require any monthly subscription or any other regular updates ?
- It does not need Premium gas, right
Thanks in advance.
------------------
A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who are looking to purchase a hybrid vehicle and are looking at it from a financial standpoint, hoping to save money from the high cost of fuel. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the hybrid vehicle you are considering.
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
No subscription
Updates aren't needed unless available and you want them (~$250-300)( I use mine as a restaurant directory often, has phone numbers listed :shades: )
No Premium needed.
"....
The Highlander model is top rated, in its class, in the JD Power (JDP) Initial Quality Survey using their revised survey approach.
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082
Some domestic did not do too badly if not for the gas-guzzler image. Just like Consumer Report (CR), JDP shows Asian brands to be better built than domestic. I wonder how many will now bash JDP, as they did CR, as pro-Asian and anti-American. It is good to see domestic making headway but it seems we still a way to go; GMC has 119 defects vs. Toyota at 102.
The article also mentions importance of interior design, the "Human Interface" portion that Toyota and other non-domestic can do so well. A good read.
...."
Admittedly, I'm using some of the same techniques that I've picked up from driving our Prius (your toting around a battery, use it as much and as long as you can!) and I'm also driving fairly conservatively given the break in period, but still... 30+mpg out of the blocks? I'm thrilled, and convinced I made a great decision!
So... how is it possible to get 21 or 22mpg in mixed driving? I don't get it, unless the driver is a leadfoot or doesn't understand the fact that if the engine is running the entire time, its not much of a hybrid system anymore...
What I can understand is that with a coefficient of drag of .34, you're driving a brick wall into the wind above 60mph... so I can see if people are driving 70mph plus then the your mileage will plummet.
So... what the heck is CR doing to get such crappy mileage? Anyone have an idea of what or how they test?
Having said that, they also report 44mpg in the Prius, and I certainly don't get that... we get an average of 50mpg and we don't even try hard!
The bad thing is that it makes Hybrids less attractive then they actually are... and lets admit it, part of the fun, challenge and uniqueness of owning a Hybrid is to maximize your gas mileage!
Looking forward to other opinions on this...
While I support khdspyder's point about CR's position, I belive CR also goofed in an important area. Unlike the Prius, the HH cannot return 28 or 29 all by itself in all driving situation and with all driving styles. Just like any ICE car, terrain and driving style will impact the mileage. The key difference is that with the HH or a Full-hybrid, the driver at least has the opportunity to drive some distance without using any gas. This is how a full-hybrid can really achieve stellar city mileage relative to a comparable (in size and weight and power) ICE vehicle over the same terrain. CR most likely never recognized this and never asked its testers to practice basic "hypermiling" techniques.
A lot of people interested in the HH have the same misconception. They seem to zero in on the EPA mileage and then assume they can drive the HH "normally" and get 30+ MPG. The same people will not expect the same from a comparable ICE vehicle. It will take most drivers and CR a couple of years to learn this technology or Toyota can make it easy by offering plug-in or "gas-sip" mode or an I4 option that really does return 30-MPG in "normal" driving.
Will see what happens in 2007.