What are you experts best guesses concerning whether or not there will be a Mazdaspeed 6 wagon in the relatively near future (i.e., during the next cycle)?
What are you experts best guesses concerning whether or not there will be a Mazdaspeed 6 wagon in the relatively near future (i.e., during the next cycle)?
I wouldn't put any money on it.
MazdaSpeed versions or cars are released in the last year (or so) of current production cars. This makes sense, considering that the 6 will be redesigned for '07 (or early for the '08 model year). Say goodbye to the MS6 for a while when that happens. There will probably be a second allotment for MS6s for this year, but we're still talking VERY limited production. This rules out the tooling and development of a 5-door or wagon MS6... Too much $$$.
You don't pay more for 274hp only to have electronic nannies limiting the fun.
Wagon is doubtful - they're supposed to do a MazdaSpeed version of the 3 next, it's already been announced. Sadly it won't get AWD at all, so my concern is serious torque steer. Even if it only gets 250hp, all to the front wheels?
They should have done the 5 door, IMO, but I'm sure they wanted the most rigid bodystyle to work with, thus the choice of a sedan.
Wagon is doubtful - they're supposed to do a MazdaSpeed version of the 3 next, it's already been announced. Sadly it won't get AWD at all, so my concern is serious torque steer. Even if it only gets 250hp, all to the front wheels?
Thats right, the Mazda3 is next. They are going to used the same MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo, although, I doubt it will have 274 hp. AWD is also very doubtful. But, it would be nice to compare the Mazdaspeed3 to the EVO and STi if it was to come with it.
Thing is, if it's FWD, you're stuck competing with the Neon SRT-4 and Cobalt SS, not exactly where you want to be. With AWD, people will see it as an EVO/STI alternative.
Of course, by the time it comes out, the Neon will be gone, so it might end up competing with the Civic Si.
But still, that puts Mazda in a $20k starting price range, as opposed to $30k for the AWD competitors. $25k would be sort of a no-man's land, between the two.
Of course, by the time it comes out, the Neon will be gone, so it might end up competing with the Civic Si.
We will most likely see the Mazdaspeed3 in '08 at the earliest. Mazdaspeed does a vehicle for 2 years. The neon is supposed to be replaced by the Dodge Caliber. As I read from Edmunds, there might be a Caliber SRT-4 with 235 hp, and potential AWD. I really would not like to see the Mazdaspeed3 compared withe the Civic Si, but, with no AWD, thats what we might get.
It would be a crying shame if there is no AWD in the Mazdaspeed3. Thus, that might hurt sales. The VW R32 would be another competitor if it had AWD.
The Mazda rep I spoke with would not answer my question on AWD, but, did say the power plant would be the same.
Actually, it's not so bad. The Haldex is capable of sending power in full throttle situations without slip. It acts quickly, though it is sort of reactive in that the default is 100% FWD, then it adjusts temporarily.
Volvo held a Fire & Ice event and I got to sample S60 models back-to-back, FWD vs. Haldex. The Haldex models had much better grip on the wet tarp and less understeer in dry corners, too. I just wish it could do that full-time.
VW is actually supposed to bring an R36. The old R32 sold out quickly and commands high prices on the used market, so VW will definitely revisit the segment.
But still, that puts Mazda in a $20k starting price range, as opposed to $30k for the AWD competitors. $25k would be sort of a no-man's land, between the two.
$25k would put it right there with the WRX, which I think would be a closer comparison than the STI and EVO, would it not?
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certainly i agree with you about the FWD ... possibly even compared to the RSX-S ... only because you can get some luxo features in the MZ3.
But, as far as not comparing it to the WRX because its special edition, I don't agree with that. Production numbers should never be a factor. If, for instance, Subie produced 3 times the STIs as Mitsu did Evos (doesn't happen, i know, but this is sort of rhetorical), does that mean they shouldn't be compared?
Problem with trying to line up comparisons based on production is pretty clear in this instance. The STI and EVO would not be in the same class as the proposed speed3 (certainly, this could change, but i wouldn't hold my breath for a 280hp AWD MZ3 anytime soon). Pricewise and performancewise. So what is the better comparison? WRX and Speed3 due to matching price/performance/class OR STI and Speed3 because they are both special editions of a lesser car? I know which 2 I'd cross-shop.
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I'm not very pleased with Mazda's educators in this vehicle. Everything I have been writing has been what we were taught. Which is sad. I really feel Mazda misrepresented themselves when teaching us about this vehicle.
I was at the MazdaSpeed school in Atlanta and the folks at the event presented the car and the details quite well. They didn't misrepresent the car. They didn't say any of the stuff your blaming on them.
I was at the MazdaSpeed school in Atlanta and the folks at the event presented the car and the details quite well. They didn't misrepresent the car. They didn't say any of the stuff your blaming on them.
I think they did do a good job of presenting our car, but left some major details out. Like what type of AWD system the MS6 has. Also, they were not as knowledgable of the other vehicles as i thought they were. Like the Subaru Legacy GT.
Subaru trains their east coast dealers in Atlanta, also. I wonder if they use the same facility?
I often see stadium parking lots being used for that type of thing. Last time I went to FedEx Field VW was there with their Passat, and they had Accords and Camrys along for comparison. It was a dealer-only event.
Subaru trains their east coast dealers in Atlanta, also. I wonder if they use the same facility?
It may be the same place...the people who run most ride & drives don't work for the manufacturers. they do driving events for dealers all over the country for lots of carmakers...Some of the guys who did the Mazda6 were heading to Texas to do an event for Cadillac.
I picked mine up in San Antonio on Weds although I live in Austin, too. What a great car! Did you buy the Titanium Gray GT that was on the floor at Mazda Central? I went in there the other day to get another look at the color before I took delivery of my own and it was gone! If so, you and I are probably the only ones in Austin driving this car for now. I opted for the Sport since it had a great lease incentive. I'm having the same trouble getting used to using a clutch again. But I drove a standard for 15 some odd years before I got my 1st automatic, so I should be able to get back into it before too long.
By the way, I take it that you are from the UK or some other English-speaking place. "Porter" is kind of a quaint way to describe the service assistants. :-) Anyway, give your horn a honk if you see a Titanium Gray MS6 on the road! We can gang up on an unsuspecting Audi or BMW. :shades:
Stopped by a local dealer yesterday for a spin in a mazdaspeed (plus they called me offering to buy my car "at a high kbb value"...lol). Well they only had one and it was literally on the showroom floor, so no test drives. Funniest thing, they had a markup on it and the mx-5. I used to like this dealership (my family bought several cars from them) but times they are a changing...36k for a mazdaspeed6 is tad outrageous.
Finally got the call from my local Mazda dealer, and took MS6 for a spin.
First impression: a beautiful car to look at. Has that European understated aggressive look. I'm not sure about the Black Cherry color, though. Twin exhausts integrated into rear bumper are quite cool.
The front seat was a bit tight for my 6ft, 2in frame. I had the seat all the way back, and felt like I could do with a bit more length. I'm not sure I could take a long trip in this car. No grown adult could sit behind me for very long. The back seat is not practical for three grown adults, but two should be comfortable if the driver is not too tall.
Fit and finish is quite good, if not luxurious. One zone climate control and one setting on seat heaters (essential where I live), so this does not qualify as a luxo-box.
Displays are excellent and very good visibility. Too many controls on stalks on the steering wheel. Bose radio was adequate, but not great. Test driver did not have Nav System, so did not get a chance to try that.
Turning the ignition emits a pleasant rumble.
Steering is responsive. Power seems unlimited. Quite easily gets to 50 mph in 3rd gear. I had it up to 80 on the highway in 4th and 5th gear. 6th gear adds nothing to performance. Is this overdrive? Is this useful on the Autobahn? Brakes had excellent stopping, with little to no fading. Road noise was quite acceptable. Not silent, but fairly low at high speed.
I have driven the Audi A4 Quattro, and the MS6 does not seem to have the same "grippiness" as the A4. Nonetheless, I felt in control at all speeds and road conditions with the MS6.
Bottom line: outstanding price-to-performance ratio for engine and handling, but not as high level of amenities and execution as some would prefer.
I also took the MS6 out for a ride recently. Aside from crazy power, the most noticeable aspect was fit & finish, which was excellent inside and out. Interior with leather and navigation was well done. Seats are supportive, comfortable and instruments, etc. are well done and clearly visible. I'm 6-4 and there was just enough room for me to feel comfortable, but no more. Materials feel fist rate. I didn't feel like I was sitting in a Mazda. Much better quality interior than the Subie Limited and the Audi A4 (IMHO).
Driving: Car is extremely fast and the gearing keeps the revs high. It takes some work to baby it and keep speed down, as it keeps reminding you-"Hey, I'm high performance." Steering was nicely weighted. Brakes and handling are excellent. Suspension was just stiff enough without being jarring like the sport suspension in the A4. Shift action was smooth and solid. Clutch was no problem. Engine noise on acceleration was great, although road noise seemed a bit high. And, the stereo didn't sound so great. Overall, I thought it had a much more solid feel and provided a better driving experience than Subie or Audi, but clearly not a more relaxed driving experience.
Overall, I loved it, but I kept thinking about practicality. It bothered me there was no docile side to the car. It felt like it was either screaming on or off-- no in between. Also, with those 18" wheels and high performance summer tires, at least in Minnesota, that means $$ for a set of winter tires, as well as wheels if you don't want your 18" alloy rims messed with twice a year. The sales guy suggested Tires Plus for a cheap set of 16" steel rims and snow tires. That makes the most sense, maybe, but I wouldn't do that to this car.
Anyway, the car is awesome. They have a silver GT with NAV tucked away somewhere on the lot. I'm very tempted! Despite the practicality issues, I know I won't find a better executed AWD car at the price.
The sales guy suggested Tires Plus for a cheap set of 16" steel rims and snow tires. That makes the most sense, maybe, but I wouldn't do that to this car.
I remember the training staff saying they recommended using 18" snow tires. There are a couple companies that make them. Though, I doubt they will cut the snow very well. I think you can use 17"'s if you wanted to. I'm not really sure about 16"'s.
From what I've heard, the 16" do NOT fit due to brake caliper clearances (or lack of, in this case). The 17" alloys from the 6 DO fit with adequate clearances, as well as 18" wheels.
I'd stick with a set of 17" snow tires and used 17" Mazda 6 alloys. Used wheels can be found just about anywhere, and the 17" winter tires are much less expensive than the 18" tires.
Stopped by a local Mazda dealer here in Denver to check out a Titanium Grey speed6 (GT). I've decided that my next car will definitely be AWD, so naturally I would consider this.
This dealership added a mark-up of $4,995 to the sticker, making the "sticker price" around $38k. I don't doubt that there is wiggle room within that, but I just think that's pretty arrogant and laughable. As I've stated before, I don't believe these will even sell for MSRP several months from now.
Two blocks up from this Mazda dealer is a Subaru dealer, where I can get a Leg GT for well under $30k. Or, I noticed the $1,000 rebate on Legacys already applies to the Spec-B! The only significant advantage I see in the 6 is the 6-speed.
Truth be told, I am heavily leaning toward a new 3-series wagon. I know the reliability may not be as high as the Subaru, or perhaps the Mazda, but a sporty AWD wagon with a manual trannie. That's what I'm after.
Timing is everything. They're making enough of them that the prices will gradually come down, I bet close to invoice a year from now.
For the Spec B, since the powertrain is the same as the GT, supply/demand isn't as high as for the brand new MS6. Next year, it's supposed to get powertrain upgrades, including a 6 speed, so then it might.
The dealer with the markups is crazy. He won't get that much, no way. Keep in mind that's just the asking price, they're "fishing" for a sucker.
I know you're absolutely right on the timing issue; I was just shocked at the amount of the dealer's markup. I mean, it's their business (literally), but I was so turned off by it that I didn't bother to even ask for a test drive or take a longer look at the car. And, like you said, they are just fishing for a sucker. They can knock off a few thousand off that marked-up price, and maybe someone will feel like they're getting a good deal. I told the salesperson I would check back in a few months when pricing relaxed.
Not to get off the subject, but Juice, you mentioned a powertrain upgrade and a 6-speed for the Legacy next year? I haven't been following the Subie forums too much recently - is that somewhat confirmed? Is that just for the Spec-B, or for all the turbo models? The 6-Speed in particular would be very appealing to me, though I would very much prefer a wagon. I suppose those upgrades would be on the Outback XT too, huh? Hope they don't take away the manual trannie from the XT - it's my last hope with Subaru.
My local mazda dealer did the same thing. I literally laughed out loud. 36k for a Mazdaspeed6?! That's more expensive than Lexus, Acura, BMW, Infiniti. They're on crack.
Even worse, this dealership usually has every car listed 2-3k off sticker. The idea that they want to overcharge for a Mazda is hilariously wrong.
Timing is everything. They're making enough of them that the prices will gradually come down, I bet close to invoice a year from now.
If not beneath invoice. I can understand paying sticker to be the first on the block, but $5K OVER? Give me a break! But yes, there's a sucker born every minute...
I've heard owners paying sticker for MS6's, and some were able to knock a few hundred off, but that's it. Considering that Mazda most likely will send a second allotment to dealers this spring, invoice shouldn't be a problem.
I've even heard of some dealers honoring S-plan pricing for the MS6. I guess Mazda has left it up to the dealers whether or not to honor S-plan pricing...
Just wondering but what dealer in Colorado. I bet it was the John Elway on 104th. Those guys are crazy. I asked for an internet quote and they quoted me MSRP on the Mazda3 I purchased a year and a half ago.
My local mazda dealer did the same thing. I literally laughed out loud. 36k for a Mazdaspeed6?! That's more expensive than Lexus, Acura, BMW, Infiniti. They're on crack.
And that's a big reason why I think they'll struggle to sell them at MSRP or above. It is indeed a very special car, particular for an enthusiast, but at the end of the day, for low $30k's, I think most people would prefer a TL, G35, A4, 325, etc. Not that these will outperform the MS6, but when you break $30k, I think these offer other things that buyers want.
By the way, I was mistaken about the Spec-B being eligible for the $1,000 rebate. At least as of yesterday, Edmunds did state that the Spec-B had the rebate, but Subaru's website specifically says that it is excluded. As Juice pointed out, I still imagine the Sub dealers are more apt to discount on the Spec-B than Mazda on the MS6.
Spec B for sure, others maybe (not likely though). One of our Club members is a supplier to SoA so we get the inside scoop months before.
Look at the MazdaSpeed Miata, the unsold ones are a bargain right now. Someone in the Miata threads paid under $18k for one, they're mid/high 20s list!
I'm not saying the MS6 will get discounts that deep, in fact I don't think it will, but markups are insane. :mad:
Ok, so I just went out to check out the Spec B in person, and also tried another Mazda dealer, but they didn't have any MS6's (the salesperson said there was a "delay" - made me laugh inside - what? a delay on the Mazdaspeed 6?).
If you ignore the dealer markup on the MS6 I looked at yesterday and assume you can get it for full sticker, that's $33,225 - that's a GT w/Nav. The Spec B stickers for $35,261 (with a few minor accessories that seems to be on all of them). I guess I didn't realize they were that high. For $2k less, you're getting a 6 speed and a few other items, such as HIDs and the keyless start, in the MS6 over the Spec B.
So, if a lot of us expect discounts before too long on the MS6, what does that mean for a street price on the Spec B?
By the way, the silver on the Spec B is real nice, and the brick leather is a lot more subtle than I expected. Pictures made it look kinda bright red, but it's darker - sort of like, umm, brick. Salesperson claimed they are only selling for full sticker. We'll see - they apparently just sold their first one, and have three others on the lot.
Follow-up question - was that the base model or the loaded one? The base is equipped more like a plain Legacy GT, non-limited. It should cost less (no leather for instance).
The MS6 I looked at was loaded - the MSRP was $33,225. That's a GT with sunroof and nav, and a few other minor options. So, relative to the Spec B, it is a good deal.
Got to say though, it's silly, but I thought the little badge on the Spec B in front of the shifter that stated "271 out of 500" was pretty cool. But with the improvements you mentioned for next year, this Spec B seems sort of a lame duck. Something to sort of bridge the gap and provide something for those simply wanting a more unique Legacy. I don't suppose Subaru would make a Spec B wagon, huh? Or maybe the elimination of the manual trannie GT wagon was just to make room for it? Wishful thinking.
Sorry - back to the MS6. A search of inventory in my region on Mazda's website showed a few white ones - all with the black with white leather. I hope they don't plan on making all white GTs with this interior. I saw it at a car show and thought it looked pretty cheap.
Our nearest competator closed down yesterday and I got all of their MZ6Speed's. So now I'm going to have some inventory to show people...that will be helpful.
MZ6Speed's... I'm going to have some inventory Hi Rich, How many has your dealership sold to date? And what's your new allotment total for the year? Is there anything in particular (eg. Performance/ Looks/ Lack of competition)that sells them? What's the most irritating question you get asked about them (eg. Reduce price by ---?; No automatic?).
we have delivered 4 and others are pending delivery once they get here...I was scheduled to get around 14 but it looks like I will get closer to 30 for the year. I took the extra cars from two dealers that just closed down. One dealer is only 10 minutes away...The lack of an auto trans has kiboshed a few potential sales...The most irratating thing isn't a goofy question but the backwards hat crowd with the droopy pants looking for a joy ride.
One thing that has been a surprise is the number of 35-55 yr. female buyers...higher than I expected.
"One thing that has been a surprise is the number of 35-55 yr. female buyers...higher than I expected." Hey Rich, can you get me some phone numbers? They sound just about like my kind of women.
I was amazed at what some women wore to that place in the summer time. And that was a "no haggle" dealership. I'm sure regular dealerships have even more stories to tell.
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So, a co-worker of mine, who is also interested in the MS6, and I went out this afternoon to take a closer look at the car. We visited the dealership here in Denver who added a $5k markup.
The salesperson claimed test drives were not allowed unless we went through some paperwork; the manager came out to "size us up," and subsequently allowed a test drive - around the parking lot! My co-worker took the "test drive" but I didn't bother. I mean, I certainly understand not wanting too many miles put on the car, but a quick 1-2 mile spin around the block would at least help a little.
During the "test drive" the salesperson went over the pricing on the sticker and mentioned how the car was priced at $38k, plus the clear bra and tinting.
Since I'm not buying immediately, I wasn't trying to be confrontational, but I did mention to the manager my surprise at the significant markup. He claimed the few the had already sold were indeed marked up from MSRP. I don't know, but to his credit, he did acknowledge that discounts could probably be had a year from now.
I really like the look of the car - maybe sometime in the next few months I can actually get a test drive!
I'm telling you, if this "mark-up" business doesn't stop, the MS6 will be sitting on dealers lots, and Mazda will think it was a mistake to bring it here!
I don't care how new or different a car is, the sticker price is THE price for the car, and I'd NEVER pay a cent more. Those that do are simply stupid. Considering MS6's are eligible for S-plan, and other dealers are allowing haggling, just like any other car, mark-ups are simply laughable, and ANY dealer that doesn't allow a sale without the mark-up would never see my face again, for sales or service.
My advice to you and your friend, finds another dealer that actually RESPECTS their customers, and allows a REAL test-drive as well.
Comments
Thanks.
I wouldn't put any money on it.
MazdaSpeed versions or cars are released in the last year (or so) of current production cars. This makes sense, considering that the 6 will be redesigned for '07 (or early for the '08 model year). Say goodbye to the MS6 for a while when that happens. There will probably be a second allotment for MS6s for this year, but we're still talking VERY limited production. This rules out the tooling and development of a 5-door or wagon MS6... Too much $$$.
Having said that, I'd LOVE to see a MS6 wagon...
Amen.
You don't pay more for 274hp only to have electronic nannies limiting the fun.
Wagon is doubtful - they're supposed to do a MazdaSpeed version of the 3 next, it's already been announced. Sadly it won't get AWD at all, so my concern is serious torque steer. Even if it only gets 250hp, all to the front wheels?
They should have done the 5 door, IMO, but I'm sure they wanted the most rigid bodystyle to work with, thus the choice of a sedan.
-juice
Thats right, the Mazda3 is next. They are going to used the same MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo, although, I doubt it will have 274 hp. AWD is also very doubtful. But, it would be nice to compare the Mazdaspeed3 to the EVO and STi if it was to come with it.
Thing is, if it's FWD, you're stuck competing with the Neon SRT-4 and Cobalt SS, not exactly where you want to be. With AWD, people will see it as an EVO/STI alternative.
Of course, by the time it comes out, the Neon will be gone, so it might end up competing with the Civic Si.
But still, that puts Mazda in a $20k starting price range, as opposed to $30k for the AWD competitors. $25k would be sort of a no-man's land, between the two.
-juice
We will most likely see the Mazdaspeed3 in '08 at the earliest. Mazdaspeed does a vehicle for 2 years. The neon is supposed to be replaced by the Dodge Caliber. As I read from Edmunds, there might be a Caliber SRT-4 with 235 hp, and potential AWD. I really would not like to see the Mazdaspeed3 compared withe the Civic Si, but, with no AWD, thats what we might get.
It would be a crying shame if there is no AWD in the Mazdaspeed3. Thus, that might hurt sales. The VW R32 would be another competitor if it had AWD.
The Mazda rep I spoke with would not answer my question on AWD, but, did say the power plant would be the same.
Spec B and all Subarus continually engage all wheels and have performance built into the driving experience.
Where would you spend your money?
John
Volvo held a Fire & Ice event and I got to sample S60 models back-to-back, FWD vs. Haldex. The Haldex models had much better grip on the wet tarp and less understeer in dry corners, too. I just wish it could do that full-time.
VW is actually supposed to bring an R36. The old R32 sold out quickly and commands high prices on the used market, so VW will definitely revisit the segment.
-juice
$25k would put it right there with the WRX, which I think would be a closer comparison than the STI and EVO, would it not?
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But the plain WRX is not a special edition car, MazdaSpeed is. So they should be aiming for the STI, EVO, one of those.
I still think it'll end up being compared to a Cobalt SS if it stays FWD.
-juice
But, as far as not comparing it to the WRX because its special edition, I don't agree with that. Production numbers should never be a factor. If, for instance, Subie produced 3 times the STIs as Mitsu did Evos (doesn't happen, i know, but this is sort of rhetorical), does that mean they shouldn't be compared?
Problem with trying to line up comparisons based on production is pretty clear in this instance. The STI and EVO would not be in the same class as the proposed speed3 (certainly, this could change, but i wouldn't hold my breath for a 280hp AWD MZ3 anytime soon). Pricewise and performancewise. So what is the better comparison? WRX and Speed3 due to matching price/performance/class OR STI and Speed3 because they are both special editions of a lesser car? I know which 2 I'd cross-shop.
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I was at the MazdaSpeed school in Atlanta and the folks at the event presented the car and the details quite well. They didn't misrepresent the car. They didn't say any of the stuff your blaming on them.
I think they did do a good job of presenting our car, but left some major details out. Like what type of AWD system the MS6 has. Also, they were not as knowledgable of the other vehicles as i thought they were. Like the Subaru Legacy GT.
Subaru trains their east coast dealers in Atlanta, also. I wonder if they use the same facility?
I often see stadium parking lots being used for that type of thing. Last time I went to FedEx Field VW was there with their Passat, and they had Accords and Camrys along for comparison. It was a dealer-only event.
-juice
It may be the same place...the people who run most ride & drives don't work for the manufacturers. they do driving events for dealers all over the country for lots of carmakers...Some of the guys who did the Mazda6 were heading to Texas to do an event for Cadillac.
-juice
STILL no hard test results, but they liked it...
Austin, too. What a great car! Did you buy the Titanium Gray GT that was on the floor at Mazda Central? I went in there the other day to get another look at the color before I took delivery of my own and it was gone! If so, you and I are probably the only ones in Austin driving this car for now. I opted for the Sport since it had a great lease incentive. I'm having the same trouble getting used to using a clutch again. But I drove a standard for 15 some odd years before I got my 1st automatic, so I should be able to get back into it before too long.
By the way, I take it that you are from the UK or some other English-speaking place. "Porter" is kind of a quaint way to describe the service assistants. :-) Anyway, give your horn a honk if you see a Titanium Gray MS6 on the road! We can gang up on an unsuspecting Audi or BMW. :shades:
First impression: a beautiful car to look at. Has that European understated aggressive look. I'm not sure about the Black Cherry color, though. Twin exhausts integrated into rear bumper are quite cool.
The front seat was a bit tight for my 6ft, 2in frame. I had the seat all the way back, and felt like I could do with a bit more length. I'm not sure I could take a long trip in this car. No grown adult could sit behind me for very long. The back seat is not practical for three grown adults, but two should be comfortable if the driver is not too tall.
Fit and finish is quite good, if not luxurious. One zone climate control and one setting on seat heaters (essential where I live), so this does not qualify as a luxo-box.
Displays are excellent and very good visibility. Too many controls on stalks on the steering wheel. Bose radio was adequate, but not great. Test driver did not have Nav System, so did not get a chance to try that.
Turning the ignition emits a pleasant rumble.
Steering is responsive. Power seems unlimited. Quite easily gets to 50 mph in 3rd gear. I had it up to 80 on the highway in 4th and 5th gear. 6th gear adds nothing to performance. Is this overdrive? Is this useful on the Autobahn? Brakes had excellent stopping, with little to no fading. Road noise was quite acceptable. Not silent, but fairly low at high speed.
I have driven the Audi A4 Quattro, and the MS6 does not seem to have the same "grippiness" as the A4. Nonetheless, I felt in control at all speeds and road conditions with the MS6.
Bottom line: outstanding price-to-performance ratio for engine and handling, but not as high level of amenities and execution as some would prefer.
Driving: Car is extremely fast and the gearing keeps the revs high. It takes some work to baby it and keep speed down, as it keeps reminding you-"Hey, I'm high performance." Steering was nicely weighted. Brakes and handling are excellent. Suspension was just stiff enough without being jarring like the sport suspension in the A4. Shift action was smooth and solid. Clutch was no problem. Engine noise on acceleration was great, although road noise seemed a bit high. And, the stereo didn't sound so great. Overall, I thought it had a much more solid feel and provided a better driving experience than Subie or Audi, but clearly not a more relaxed driving experience.
Overall, I loved it, but I kept thinking about practicality. It bothered me there was no docile side to the car. It felt like it was either screaming on or off-- no in between. Also, with those 18" wheels and high performance summer tires, at least in Minnesota, that means $$ for a set of winter tires, as well as wheels if you don't want your 18" alloy rims messed with twice a year. The sales guy suggested Tires Plus for a cheap set of 16" steel rims and snow tires. That makes the most sense, maybe, but I wouldn't do that to this car.
Anyway, the car is awesome. They have a silver GT with NAV tucked away somewhere on the lot. I'm very tempted! Despite the practicality issues, I know I won't find a better executed AWD car at the price.
Krzys
I remember the training staff saying they recommended using 18" snow tires. There are a couple companies that make them. Though, I doubt they will cut the snow very well. I think you can use 17"'s if you wanted to. I'm not really sure about 16"'s.
I'd stick with a set of 17" snow tires and used 17" Mazda 6 alloys. Used wheels can be found just about anywhere, and the 17" winter tires are much less expensive than the 18" tires.
This dealership added a mark-up of $4,995 to the sticker, making the "sticker price" around $38k. I don't doubt that there is wiggle room within that, but I just think that's pretty arrogant and laughable. As I've stated before, I don't believe these will even sell for MSRP several months from now.
Two blocks up from this Mazda dealer is a Subaru dealer, where I can get a Leg GT for well under $30k. Or, I noticed the $1,000 rebate on Legacys already applies to the Spec-B! The only significant advantage I see in the 6 is the 6-speed.
Truth be told, I am heavily leaning toward a new 3-series wagon. I know the reliability may not be as high as the Subaru, or perhaps the Mazda, but a sporty AWD wagon with a manual trannie. That's what I'm after.
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For the Spec B, since the powertrain is the same as the GT, supply/demand isn't as high as for the brand new MS6. Next year, it's supposed to get powertrain upgrades, including a 6 speed, so then it might.
The dealer with the markups is crazy. He won't get that much, no way. Keep in mind that's just the asking price, they're "fishing" for a sucker.
-juice
Not to get off the subject, but Juice, you mentioned a powertrain upgrade and a 6-speed for the Legacy next year? I haven't been following the Subie forums too much recently - is that somewhat confirmed? Is that just for the Spec-B, or for all the turbo models? The 6-Speed in particular would be very appealing to me, though I would very much prefer a wagon. I suppose those upgrades would be on the Outback XT too, huh? Hope they don't take away the manual trannie from the XT - it's my last hope with Subaru.
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Even worse, this dealership usually has every car listed 2-3k off sticker. The idea that they want to overcharge for a Mazda is hilariously wrong.
I'm interested in upgrades to the Legacy too!
If not beneath invoice. I can understand paying sticker to be the first on the block, but $5K OVER? Give me a break! But yes, there's a sucker born every minute...
I've heard owners paying sticker for MS6's, and some were able to knock a few hundred off, but that's it. Considering that Mazda most likely will send a second allotment to dealers this spring, invoice shouldn't be a problem.
I've even heard of some dealers honoring S-plan pricing for the MS6. I guess Mazda has left it up to the dealers whether or not to honor S-plan pricing...
And that's a big reason why I think they'll struggle to sell them at MSRP or above. It is indeed a very special car, particular for an enthusiast, but at the end of the day, for low $30k's, I think most people would prefer a TL, G35, A4, 325, etc. Not that these will outperform the MS6, but when you break $30k, I think these offer other things that buyers want.
By the way, I was mistaken about the Spec-B being eligible for the $1,000 rebate. At least as of yesterday, Edmunds did state that the Spec-B had the rebate, but Subaru's website specifically says that it is excluded. As Juice pointed out, I still imagine the Sub dealers are more apt to discount on the Spec-B than Mazda on the MS6.
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Look at the MazdaSpeed Miata, the unsold ones are a bargain right now. Someone in the Miata threads paid under $18k for one, they're mid/high 20s list!
I'm not saying the MS6 will get discounts that deep, in fact I don't think it will, but markups are insane.
:mad:
-juice
If you ignore the dealer markup on the MS6 I looked at yesterday and assume you can get it for full sticker, that's $33,225 - that's a GT w/Nav. The Spec B stickers for $35,261 (with a few minor accessories that seems to be on all of them). I guess I didn't realize they were that high. For $2k less, you're getting a 6 speed and a few other items, such as HIDs and the keyless start, in the MS6 over the Spec B.
So, if a lot of us expect discounts before too long on the MS6, what does that mean for a street price on the Spec B?
By the way, the silver on the Spec B is real nice, and the brick leather is a lot more subtle than I expected. Pictures made it look kinda bright red, but it's darker - sort of like, umm, brick. Salesperson claimed they are only selling for full sticker. We'll see - they apparently just sold their first one, and have three others on the lot.
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Prices won't come down much more than that - remember Subaru is only making 500 of them.
The same dealer sells MS6s but they don't list any in stock right now.
-juice
-juice
Got to say though, it's silly, but I thought the little badge on the Spec B in front of the shifter that stated "271 out of 500" was pretty cool. But with the improvements you mentioned for next year, this Spec B seems sort of a lame duck. Something to sort of bridge the gap and provide something for those simply wanting a more unique Legacy. I don't suppose Subaru would make a Spec B wagon, huh? Or maybe the elimination of the manual trannie GT wagon was just to make room for it? Wishful thinking.
Sorry - back to the MS6. A search of inventory in my region on Mazda's website showed a few white ones - all with the black with white leather. I hope they don't plan on making all white GTs with this interior. I saw it at a car show and thought it looked pretty cheap.
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Hi Rich,
How many has your dealership sold to date? And what's your new allotment total for the year? Is there anything in particular (eg. Performance/ Looks/ Lack of competition)that sells them? What's the most irritating question you get asked about them (eg. Reduce price by ---?; No automatic?).
Cheers and all the best of the season.
One thing that has been a surprise is the number of 35-55 yr. female buyers...higher than I expected.
-juice
Hey Rich, can you get me some phone numbers?
They sound just about like my kind of women.
Maybe you should get a weekend job selling MazdaSpeeds to meet women!
-juice
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Krzys
The salesperson claimed test drives were not allowed unless we went through some paperwork; the manager came out to "size us up," and subsequently allowed a test drive - around the parking lot! My co-worker took the "test drive" but I didn't bother. I mean, I certainly understand not wanting too many miles put on the car, but a quick 1-2 mile spin around the block would at least help a little.
During the "test drive" the salesperson went over the pricing on the sticker and mentioned how the car was priced at $38k, plus the clear bra and tinting.
Since I'm not buying immediately, I wasn't trying to be confrontational, but I did mention to the manager my surprise at the significant markup. He claimed the few the had already sold were indeed marked up from MSRP. I don't know, but to his credit, he did acknowledge that discounts could probably be had a year from now.
I really like the look of the car - maybe sometime in the next few months I can actually get a test drive!
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I don't care how new or different a car is, the sticker price is THE price for the car, and I'd NEVER pay a cent more. Those that do are simply stupid. Considering MS6's are eligible for S-plan, and other dealers are allowing haggling, just like any other car, mark-ups are simply laughable, and ANY dealer that doesn't allow a sale without the mark-up would never see my face again, for sales or service.
My advice to you and your friend, finds another dealer that actually RESPECTS their customers, and allows a REAL test-drive as well.