The regional rep did not say where the valve was coming from, but I assume it was not readily available. BTW, look at today's post in Edmunds Jeep Grand Cherokee-Problems #1197. Very interesting.
QUOTE: ========================= Toyota and Lexus would not let this issue build in the public eye if a software fix would do the job. Since it goes all the way back to late 2001 and Toyota/Lexus have not come up with a fix it must be a regulatory issue somehow. =========================
I agree. A Canadian owner of a 2002 ES was able to obtain a new ECU from Lexus a couple years ago that he said solved his shifting problems - and the reason given that U.S. owners couldn't get the same was because it didn't meet U.S. emissions requirements. Furthermore, the Toyota Windom (the Lexus ES in Japan) supposedly has no such shifting issues. So this leads me to believe that the problem lies in tweaking the transmission software code so that it meets U.S. emissions requirements while providing the kind of transmission behavior many U.S. car owners have come to expect. On a side note, I believe the redesigned '02 ES (the intro of the 5 spd.) was the first ES to meet ULEV.
My 2004 Sienna's Transmission just got replaced at only 16,000 KM (see post 1496,1505 and 1506 from Toyota Sienna Owners: Problems & Solutions 2004+). Before they replaced the transmission, on April 18, they tried to apply a TSB to fix the problem, I checked the TSB number, , TSB 1307 (ECM Calibration Update - Shifting Enhancement), it looks like different from the TSB they applied to my Sienna on Nov 21, 2003, TSB TC007-03 TC3001 .8 T1 26 T2 99 89661-09101.
Can anybody confirm it is a new TSB the same with Lexus?
Didn't you say on the Sienna board that you had a solenoid replaced, too? Do you have any specifics on that repair - what type of solenoid, etc.? It sounds like your transmission had problems that went beyond the hesitation. Hope your new tranny works out for you. I will see what I can find on the TSB. I only know to check NHTSA and Alldata websites, though.
I cannot find any mention of bulletin 1307 (what you had done in April). It may be very new and not available on these sites yet. I can't get the new Lexus ES300/330 bulletin to show up either, but it was issued as an update to a 2003 bulletin.
Yes, they did replace solenoid. First they applied the TSB, then they ordered solenoid (took more than 7 days to get delivered), the number for the solenoid I found from the receipt is 35290-45010. After they replaced the solenoid, the service guy called me and told me the good news and bad news, he said "the good news is that the solenoid got replaced, the bad news is that it did NOT fix your problem and the technician found that another part needs replacing". So I basically did not even had chance to test drive it after solenoid got replaced.
I live in Toronto and have our third Toyota, a 2005 Sienna. We purchased all our Toyotas at Toyota on Front in Toronto, on Spadina Rd. So far all of them have been good to us with no service problems other than oil changes, tire rotation, and other prescribed maintenance items. We always go to Toyota on Front for service and have been quite pleased with their quality and service. I have been reading the Sienna thread, and as a result of something I saw there about a transmission replacement done on a Sienna, I then followed the story to this thread. Yesterday I had service done at Toyota on Front (oil change, etc. while u wait), and I mentioned Edmunds story about transmission replacement, bad service and so on at Toyota on Front. The service guy asked me to show him on the internet so I took him to the Sienna thread and this one to show him. I was told that under no circumstances was that story correct. He swore there haven't been any Sienna transmission replacements at that dealership since 2002 when they did a couple because of a defect. Not only that he said they have not had any complaints about the hesitation problem reported by any Sienna owner. They also have not had to replace any solenoids like those shown in the Sienna thread or this one. I have no reason to doubt what I was told by this man because the people at that dealership have always been honest with me. Someone isn't telling the story right and now I'm very curious, Who is correct either the sevice guy or the owner who says a transmission was replaced. Which is it?
No harm intended, but in all fairness, there could be a third person not telling the story right and that would be you.
Donx has been a long time poster here (I did a search under his name - joined in 2003) and has been posting prior to his purchase of the Sienna and his after- buying experience, including his transmission woes. It would be a very strange charade to carry on for so long, and for what purpose? Choosing between a dealership that has its reputation to worry about (i.e., would not be expected to freely give out info on tranny failures and amount of warranty repairs done) and donx, I think I will go with donx on this one. Sorry.
First a welcome to this board. Then get called a liar. Some welcome. I should have known better than to post my story. Well, I'm not lying and I resent your inference. The man I talked to at Toyota on Front was genuinely shocked when he saw what had been said in this and the Sienna thread. He was not hiding anything from me. He said what I posted. I thought it should be told in this board because I thought people should know. I have no reason to doubt someone who I have dealt with for 9 years and who I know to be an honest person. I do have reason to doubt anonymous posters who make accusations that they believe no one can be verify. That is until somebody asks an innocent quiestion because she is concerned about her dealer being accused, and then gets told the story doesn't jive at all with their records. Believe what you want. I told it like I heard it. :P
The regional rep called me again today to tell me that the valve is on back-order from Japan. It is not a new model valve (reconfiguration), but a replacement for the existing (supposedly defective) valve. He was very apologitic and said he would make every effort to round one up locally. I asked him specifics about the valve, but he deferred to the field tech, ( who is supposedly some kind of wonderkind). I was told I would I be contacted after he conferred with the field rep. and get more technical information which I will share with this forum. I find it amazing that all this has taken place without one visit to the dealership. I believe it would be correct to assume that 1: Toyota is very aware of the problem. 2. Toyota will make an effort to correct the problem.
Think about the probability that he would actually know, or not, if a Sienna had gone through the poster's story. Had he gone off and checked the records and come back and said "never happened" it would be more believiable to me. His instant, "off the top of his head" answer and shocked expression tell me he was prepared with an answer, a lying answer. Or to be more fair maybe he simply didn't know but knew the company line.
Walk into any Toyota or Lexus shop and casually ask the salesperson about the engine hesitation problem and you will get a "what, where did you hear that?".
If you have the correct air of confidence of, about, yourself you can easily carry the conversation further wherein the salesperson will eventually admit knowledge of the symptom.
Right. They are all bad. All dealers and automakers are crooks. NOT!! Cynicism like that is usually an indication of the same set of values held by the cynic making the accusations. Undoubtedly there are auto dealers worthy of your scorn Mr.West, but there are many more who are decent, honest, and who sincerely try hard to provide the best service they can. Clientel with cynical attitudes likely have a lot to do with the odd dealership deserving of your criticism Mr.West. I have done business with Toyota on Front for 9 plus years. They are NOT deserving of your criticism Mr. West. I have dealt with the same service technician all that time. He is an honest man. He did NOT react instantly to my initial question when I casually asked He wanted to know what I was talking about, and I showed him by dialing up the internet on his computer and bringing him to first the Sienna thread and then to this one. He didn't say anything at first, and just sat there with a puzzled expression. He was completely dumbfounded. He repeated three or four times that it wasn't true. Afterwards he stated emphatically several times that no Sienna transmissions had needed replacing since 2002, when they had two that had a defect. He also said if I had time he would show me, but I took him at his word and declined. I believe what I was informed of. This man is a senior service technician at this dealership and has to know what he is talking about. I felt it important to post what I found out in this conversation, because it is just too easy to slander someone or do harm by posting information which isn't true. If you continue to insist this man was lying I can't stop it but I will say none of you were there, I was, and you are in no position to pass judgement on something you know nothing about. :P
But my judgement was based in part on the guy's statement "never heard of the engine hesitation problem". And you don't need to be dishonest personally to be an employee willing to take the company line. Regretably (or thankfully if you're the employer) many people draw a line there.
There are a few places on the internet wherein you can check out this cynics value set.
Hi bonaventure, welcome to Edmunds. I was shocked to hear all the words the service guy told you. What a actor! I don't know which guy you talked to. I guess I might be quite familiar with the guy who you talked to. OK, I have dealt with them for quite long time. I used to work nearby Toyota on Front, so I have been quite familiar with the people there. Sales persons, I knew three of them personally. Johnny, he used to work there and has posted a lot of car sales articles and stories in local Chinese newspapers, he was nice guy, but moved to another Honda dealer in Toronto I think 2 or 3 years ago. Jenan, also seemed like a nice guy, he showed me around the Sienna 2001 when I was first researching Sienna but I was not happy with the older model at that time. Jason, he was very friendly and willing to help, it was my mistake to make decision to buy Sienna from them while they bought my Odyssey 1997 trade in with only $6200 and sold me the Sienna in MSRP (it was Sept of 2003, so it was not that hot). My buying experience was a long story which I don't want talk about again because I think I have been cheated during the process, but the sales manager's (an Aisan lady) altitude was horrible and I even mailed Toyota twice to complain about it.
Once I bought Sienna, I started dealing with the service guys with more than 10 visits (two maintenance services, I only have 16k km now, so only 2 oil changes so far). Regular maintenance, no complain so far. My first visits are the hesitation problems and never dealed with properly even after 2 road tests from there since the problem was intermittent, fortunately with the help of edmunds forum, I showed them the TSB on Nov 2003, and the service guy, Rod Sam, was able to reproduce the problem, and happily applied TSB for me. Another visit was for the middle seat of the second row, the side cover was broken when I got it! I went to this dealer more than 4 times, every time they ordered wrong part, finally the part guy, Jason (another Jason), gave me a seat from another Sienna (before I left for Christmas vacation in 2003), it was painfully to visit there 4 times with no correct seat cover, but Jason's final solution made me happy (I am a nice and reasonable person and easy to get settled).
There were some other small complains from my visit to this dealer during 2003, I heard very annoying whistling voice from driver side front tire (the noise is still there), but they always said it was normal, so I just gave up. Another complain was that when I ordered Sinenna, I was ready to get the seat with lumbar support, but was disappointed to see that it was not there, it was in the brochure, and it was a one of the reason I bought it (I am working with computer 15 hours a day and had neck and back problems). I complained to Toyota Canada and Toyota Canada asked me to contact the dealer directly. However, the sales manager Ben probably already heard of this and he quickly printed out a appendix from Toyota Canada, the print-out showed that there was an error in the brochure, and the CE 8 pass model has no lumbar support... I gave up and had no choice but to live with it.
During 2004, I received a letter from Toyota Canada for the fule tank recall (I was surprised when I bought my car in Sept 2003, I was driving a car with deficit fuel tank!), so I went there for the recall service. Again the service guy was Rod, he said there was no new fuel tank available, they had to order it. The seond week I called, he said Toyota found problem with the new fuel tank and are ordering newer one and he did not know when the new ones will available. Fortunatelly after 2 weeks when I called, he said the new tank was there so I finally got the deficit fuel tank replaced (after driving it for almost 1 year).
I also had other recalls done from there (I think was steering cable or something like that), I forgot who served me but no problem so far.
My biggest problem with them was this transmission problem. After they spend 2 weeks to do this and after leaving my car undrivable for 2 weeks and they refused to provide loaner car, I was beyond angry. I spent 1 hour over the phone with Rod, he was alway calm and polite, but he could not make decision. It was the manager who really pissed me off. His name is Ron. I always thought he was a nice guy, back in 2003, while inspecting my car's car seat when I struggled to remove it, he joked about the lady from the video who made it so easy. But this time was completely disappointed, the "who cares" altitude really hurted me.
The other service person I dealt with was Naiel, he seemed like a nice guy, I think he helped me one of the road test back in Oct of 2003 but never reproduced the hesitation problem. It was Rod who succesfully reproduced the hesitation problem while braking during cornering (following exactly what I instructed) and honored me the TSB reprogramming.
Because I have been in this dealership for so many visits, I have used their shuttle service (again in a Sienna) many times. Back in 2003, the guy who drove the suttle Sienna said the car has to learn my driving habit so there is some hesitation (I believed him at that time). This year, when I talked about my Sienna problem to the service guy who drove me to subwayand asked about how he felt about the car he was driving. He said they had problem with the shuttle for the 2004 model such as brake problem, sliding door problems (you have to slam to close it, btw, I have the same problem, but only the driver side one), but they sold the car as demo so no more problem, he is currently driving a 2005 model for suttle service. This guy also told me they (Toyota on Front) have dealt with many transmission problem with Sienna, some owner had to replace a new transmission when they got their Sienna new (I was shocked to hear that at first, but unfortunately I became one of the victims after 2 weeks, the only difference is that my car was 1.5 years old with 16k km). The second time he drove me to subway, I said why Sienna has so many transmission problems, he said only 3 of 7 Sienna owners he heard complained about the transmission problem. My goodness, if it was true (I think it's just his guessing because he only drove and talked to the Sienna owners who serviced the car there), Toyota really should have transmission recall for the new Sienna. What I was shocked is that the service guy who you talked to was lying like that. You can print out my response and show it to him, I hope he is not one of the persons I have mensioned here. Good luck with your Sinenna 2005, my new Transmission is ordered new and I think it might be the same with 2005 model? So far it was nice and I haven't experienced any hesitation problem yet.
Hi bonaventure, I am not anonymous, my name is Don, you can mention my name to the service manager Ron or the service guy Rod and tell them I spend 2 weeks there in their shop to get my transmission replaced. I will be very interested in hearing what they say next...
The senior service technician? The only person who looks like senior at service department of Toyota on Front I think is the service manager. If that's true, I think he can win Oscar award for best actor!
bonaventure, sorry, I have to tell you he was lying from the statements below.
>He swore there haven't been any Sienna transmission replacements at that dealership since 2002 when they did a couple because of a defect.
My invoice number for transmission replacement is TOCS62731, ask him to open the computer to type this invoice number. The technitian who did the replacement work from the invoice is Dennis Hernandez.
>Not only that he said they have not had any complaints about the hesitation problem reported by any Sienna owner.
Well, they had two complaints from just me in 2003 and 2005, if there were no problem, why they applied TSB twice to my car. The invoice number for Nov 21, 2003 Transmission TSB is TOCS42815, the invoice number for April 8, 2005 Transmission TSB is TOCS62195. Again, ask him to open the computer to type these invoice numbers. Also from what I heard from the service guy who drove shuttle service, he confirmed that this dealership not only dealt with lots of hesitation problems, but also replaced transmission for new Sienna (before me) when the car was delivered new!
>They also have not had to replace any solenoids like those shown in the Sienna thread or this one.
The invoice number for solenoid order is from the same invoice for the second TSB: TOCS62195. They ordered solenoid from Japan and waited it delivered to Vancouver and then to Toronto (I had to keep calling them for the status of the solenoid delivery and was informed when it was delivered to Vancouver then to Toronto, because I did not think they would call me).
It was not my intention to get into a He Said--She Said argument. I have no desire to see it continue. I will make one final brief statement, and end it there. What I am seeing seems to be a no-holds-barred effort to portray Toyota and its dealers as bad people, and all bad things said about them is always gospel no matter who said it. I see it much different, from my personal and real experiences. Names have been named here. Funny thing--none of them correspond with people I have met at Front. Another odd thing, invoice numbers don't correspond with any that I have. A male courtesy driver said some things, but coincidentally the courtesy driver I see at Front has been a woman for the past year or so. One last point. The gentleman I spoke with at Front -an honest man- pointed out any transmission replacement they did would not be done in Front's shop because they use a certified transmission specialist elsewhere to do that kind of work. But - No matter what I say, it is perfectly clear that someone will come on board here and deny it. I think it would be good thing for anyone who feels that much anxiety and stress about their car/van/suv would be wise to take the Bus from now on.
Hi Bonaventure, funny thing-none of them correspond with people you have met at Front. There are 4 names named here, Ron, Rod, Jason, Naiel, plus the technitian Dennis who replaced my transmission (I never met him but I found his name from invoice). There are not that many people in the service department at Toyota on Front, if you claimed you did not know any of them in last 9 years, I would really doubt about it. Another odd thing, invoice numbers don't correspond with any that you have, I don't think they would create invoice number just for me? Any user who has been on Toyota on Front can verify that. If it might help, I am willing to scan these invoices and post it here...
The 1st one is for ECM TSB done in 2003. The 2nd one is for ECM TSB and solenoid order done last month. The 3rd one is for Transmission Replacement done last month.
Now, what is your invoice number pattern if you claimed you have different ones from me?
Will the solenoid valve replacement correct the hesitation and delay in downshifting problem? Or, is a complete transmission replacement the only solution? My Camry is an 05, so I don't know what they would replace it with. The Toyota rep has my valve on order and has said that it should correct the problems, but I hope I am not just spinning my wheels (ha-ha).
Stranger things happening all the time. First invoice is dated 041805 has 16088km. Second invoice is dated 112103 has 2510km. Third invoice dated 050305 has 16110km. All three invoices have different selling dealer numbers. Courtesy driver is female but claimed to be a male who says transmissions are failing all over the place. One more strange thing. Name is Bonnie. Gender is female. But I am told I am not. I guess all of us are enjoying a little crow today. You are correct on one item. I won't be coming back.
From what I have read of donx's story (see also his posts in the Sienna Problems andSolutions 2004+ board), it sounds like he had problems in addition to the hesitation with his transmission. I would not give up on the solenoid replacement as a fix yet.
Thanks scoti1 for clarifying this. sHe has been trying hard to find anything wrong from the invoices (based on web log, 87 visits to the invoices from an IP in Toronto in the last hour) but sHe obviously failed (ironically even though sHe claimed sHe won't come back, sHe is still checking these invoices as far as I am writing this post).
any Toyota or Lexus SERVICE MANAGER who states that he/she has not heard of the engine hesitation symptom is either lying, taking the company "line", or parsing words (its not engine hesitation, its transaxle shift delay...).
I'm liking this! I bought an Audi back when the prices plummeted after that 'expose' about Audis taking off out of control, etc. Maybe the same thing will happen to the Avalon and I'll get one cheap!
On invoice#2 where the solenoid is listed, it is stated that the problem being remedied with the solenoid was a check engine light. I don't think the solenoid that they replaced on your Sienna is the same part we have been discussing here in regards to the hesitation problem.
The service guy told me that the code generated from the computer when they diagnosed my car was interpreted as that solenoid should be replaced, I guess the code he said might be P0746 as shown from my invoice. BTW, replacing solenoid did NOT remedy check engine light problem. After they replaced it, engine light was still on.
Regarding solenoid, from siennaclub.org, another member mentioned the same thing (topic 2190, post # 118, dated July 30, 2004 by member hbanzon):
They're replacing my transmission! My '04 XLE was delivered in mid-november 2003, so I don't think the problem had been addressed on the assembly line. We've been having slightly different problems than the ones mentioned here. Ours downshifts abruptly ("harshly" is a better word) at highway speeds, going from 5th to 4th. And it does it immediately when lifting up on the accelerator. None of the low speed problems that everyone else seemed to talk about. Finally got around to bringing it in last week (only 6,500 miles on the vehicle). First they replaced the solenoid. Same problem. Then they replaced the ECM board. Same problem. Now they're going to put in a whole new tranny. Hopefully that will fix it. But I've been without the car for a week now, and it's going to be out at least another. If it still doesn't work, then I might do what a previous poster did and lobby for a new one. I'll follow-up when I get the car back next week. Wish me luck. I didn't mentiong anything about the TSBs, but it seemed like they were doing things according to procedure. I guess everyone else with the new trannies are doing OK?
Another post about solenoid is below, my VIN does not belong to the effected one, but it looks like other than pressure control solenoid, there is problem with shift solenoid, maybe you were talking about shift solenoid?
------------------------------------------------- Some 2004 model year Sienna vehicles may exhibit a M.I.L. (Malfunction Indicator Light) "ON" condition with one of the following DTCs: P0748 (pressure control solenoid "A" electrical -SLT solenoid P0798 (pressure control solenoid "C" electrical - SL3 solenoid P0985 (shift solenoid "E" control circuit low - SR solenoid P0966 (shift solenoid "E" control circuit high - SR solenoid One of these codes may be stored as a result of Engine Control Module or ECM manufacturing issues. Replacement of the ECM will correct this condition.
According to the above, #1056, there is now at least two pressure control solenoids (providing minute and precise pressure control) in the 04 and later Toyota (and Lexus?) transaxles. My 2001 RX300 only has one.
I just picked up the phone and called Toyota on Front (phone number can be found at here) and verified with Rod. He said he did not deny any transmission problem with Sienna and the fact I got my transmission replaced there, and he said it must be somebody else who did it. (Again, he is a very nice guy, calm, patient, and polite, if he does not work for Toyota on Front, I would still want to work with him for my future car maintenance.)
That's good enough to know. Bonaventure, if you are who you claimed to be, please call Rod to verify all the transmission problems happened to me. Or it will be obvious for everybody to know who your identity is and what's the purpose of your lies.
OK, let's cut down on the personally-directed comments. If you don't like someone else's post or don't believe them, it's best to ignore them rather than start or continue a flame war. Hostile and/or personally-directed posts will be removed.
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Quote: "I hope that you and any others with transmission issues will keep updating this forum and the rest of us will continue to show due respect for the genuine troubles and concerns of fellow Avalon {insert any model here} owners and prospective owners. On the long run, we all will gain from sharing such sometimes unpleasant but important information. "
the Lexus repair manuals for the 2005 RX330. Hopefully I can sort this out and come up with an aftermarket solution. Also put myself the list for a 2006 RX3xx with the air suspension.
I am new to the forum, trying to get confidence to order a new Avalon. The discussion over transmission hesitation has made me rather cautious.
Has anyone tried to contact the software company which programs the Avalon transmission? Green Hills Software, based in Santa Barbara, CA I found their web site: http://www.ghs.com/Automotive.html which proudly states: "We offer a complete range of products and services specifically designed to meet the software development requirements for automotive products such as the Toyota Avalon engine and transmission control. "
Seems to me that they could explain how the transmission "learns", and how to get the transmission to reset factory settings. I have friends at work who have the equipment to link into a car's computers and change settings. Seems to me that some smart Avalon or Lexus owner who is also a computer geek could come out with an aftermarket product to monitor the transmission, to determine what it is learning that is "good", and what is "bad".
I would think that Green Hills Software would want to know what is wrong with their "intelligence" algorithms, and how they could be improved. Further, I bet that they have the test equipment to place into a misbehaving car to exactly figure out what is going on in the internals of the transmission. Anyone living close to Santa Barbara have a misbehaving Avalon / Lexus ?
Even if this problem happens in only 1% of the cars. . . that is a big problem and deserves to be fully researched.
Thank for listening, and thanks for sharing. (I have posted a similar note in the Avalon forum as well.)
bettersafe- good research! I live about 90 minutes from Santa Barbara, but I don't think it would do any good to drive up there. I am sure their employees are prohibited from providing proprietary information regarding calibration codes. However, you bring up a good point. I think there is an opportunity for an independent aftermarket company or person to reconfigure or adjust the software so that these cars shift normally. As for the Avalon, it seems that they are having the same problem with same frequency as other models in the Toyota-Lexus line. I would wait.
It appears to some of us that a quick fix is being held up due to the requirement that whatever fix is announced must leave the vehicle in the same emissions and fuel economy level as it was when originally shipped. The EPA, CARD, and CAFE rules and regulations come into play. A secondary issue, at least for me, is that some of the shift sequencing functions of these transaxles may be there to enhance the overall safety of FWD or front torque biased AWD vehicles.
In any case there can be no argument that these transaxles upshift at seemingly illogical times. My guess has been that the upshifting is done to allow longer coastdown times or distances and thereby improve the overall fuel economy and lower emissions. I have also surmised that the upshifting that occurs just before coming to a ful stop might be to prevent loss of directional control should the roadbed surface happen to be extremely slippery.
We now have ABS to prevent loss of directional control during severe braking, Trac to prevent wheelspin or slip during acceleration and possible loss of directional control on FWD vehicles, so why not a way to moderate engine compression braking at the front for the very same reason?
I have an engineer working on an aftermarket fix for the Toyota and Lexus flawed automatic climate control at this very moment. But I suspect that anyone wanting to develope an aftermarket fix for the engine hesitation symptom will end up fighting the very same entities as would the manufacturers, EPA, CARB, etc, absent be able to to state, truthfully, that the aftermarket product is for "off road use only".
bkinblk: appropos point about proprietary information and disclosure of same.
as for independent aftermarket companies providing embedded SW for this critical functions, I highly doubt it would fly because of liability issues. imagine toyota (or another manufacturer) saying they won't warrenty the transmission or engine because some third party modified the ECU / TCM software without their consent.
seems much too risky for a manufacturer to allow that to happen, and even riskier for an end-consumer to tread down that path.
i think the day of the configurable automobile is well upon us, but to modify embedded programming is a proposition to be carefully contemplated no matter where you stand: OEM manufacturer, 2nd tier parts provider, end-consumer, dealer, regulatory agency, etc, etc.
i would think the modders / customizers would want to be careful in this area also. timing advance is one thing, but engine and transmission control at that level is another.
I don't think it would be fair to totally pass blame, but doesn't EPA have some culpability in this mess? I mean, it is their standards that likely resulted in a design that can have some serious safety concerns.
Is there a way to comply with the regs AND avoid the hesitation problem? If the answer is yes, then I would say that Toyota is on its own. If the answer is no, then shouldn't EPA grant some leniency? -- a reduction in the fines, for example, if they make the software changes that result in emissions or fuel economy violations? It seems a compromise with the EPA and auto manufacturer's experiencing this problem is needed so we can get these cars fixed.
In order for the EPA (and CARB) to grant leniency there must be some "cause". That would mean the Toyota would need to go to the EPA, hat in hand, and say that absent the granting of leniency Toyota and Lexus owners may, potentially, be killed or injured as a result of the flawed transaxle design.
Can of worms, that.
Modifying embedded software/firmware.
The approach many aftermarket manufacturers are taking is some sort of pre-processing or post-processing, or both. Basically adding a processor, or device, that intercepts the sensor inputs to the OEM processor and modifies them to acheive a different computional result from the OEM processor than was planned by the manufacturer.
A simple version of this approach is currently being marketed on ebay. Someone has developed an aftermarket device that modifies the output of the airflow temperature sensor, thermistor, within the intake manifold. If the OEM ECU "thinks" the incoming airflow is colder (therefore denser) than it really is a higher level of fuel will be injected which will result in a richer mixture and hopefully more HP.
A 20HP gain is claimed at WOT.
No validation of the product, or claims, is intended here.
The approach my company is using to modify the flawed Denso automatic climate control in the Lexus RX series to get heated airflow to the windshield in defrost/defog/demist mode can be used as another example. Our idea is to "watch" the outlet airflow servomotor position feedback and when we see it has moved to the windshield defrost/defog/demist position we "force" the blower motor to full speed and "fool" the mixing vane servomotor into moving to the max heat position by modifying its own position feedback sensor accordingly.
So our aftermarket add-in ECU system both pre-processes sensor signals going to the OEM ECU and post-processes command signals generated by the OEM ECU.
Here is a recent posting from a general hesitation board here:
#3348 of 3353 Re: [lena132] by nowoldmech May 16, 2005 (11:28 pm) Reply | E-mail Msg
My wife and I have been experiencing vague a arbitrary shifted of my 2003 Camry V6 LE for about a year. I had taken it back to the local dealer where we bought twice in the past year. The tech and the dealership owner both test drove the car and both said they could not duplicate any of the problems I described. Last week the car was taken to a dealership that is more than 50 miles from where we live. After a brief test drive the tech check the fluid level and found it to be over filled. He indicated he had to drain almost 0.9 quarts of fluid from the transmission. When I drove the car away from the dealership I noticed an immediate difference. It no longer hesitated when accelerating from a dead stop and shifts from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd seemed more normal. By more normal I mean that the engine would rev in each gear rather than sometimes abruptly shifting to the next higher gear. The car went from being (for me) annoying to drive to being pleasant to drive.
I had written Toyota Customer Service in December 2004 about the car and their position was "if the Dealership cannot duplicate the problem they cannot fix it." Now my concern is what damage has been done after driving with the transmission over filled. Guess I will write them again for an explanation and ask for an extension my warranty. One more thing I noticed is my Owners Manual does not have a procedure for checking automatic transmission fluid level!
Any opinions on this? I sure would be happy if this would solve the problem.
Comments
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Toyota and Lexus would not let this issue build in the public eye if a software fix would do the job. Since it goes all the way back to late 2001 and Toyota/Lexus have not come up with a fix it must be a regulatory issue somehow.
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I agree. A Canadian owner of a 2002 ES was able to obtain a new ECU from Lexus a couple years ago that he said solved his shifting problems - and the reason given that U.S. owners couldn't get the same was because it didn't meet U.S. emissions requirements. Furthermore, the Toyota Windom (the Lexus ES in Japan) supposedly has no such shifting issues. So this leads me to believe that the problem lies in tweaking the transmission software code so that it meets U.S. emissions requirements while providing the kind of transmission behavior many U.S. car owners have come to expect. On a side note, I believe the redesigned '02 ES (the intro of the 5 spd.) was the first ES to meet ULEV.
ruby1, "Lexus ES 300/ES 330" #4914, 11 May 2005 2:31 pm
Can anybody confirm it is a new TSB the same with Lexus?
Do you have any specifics on that repair - what type of solenoid, etc.? It sounds like your transmission had problems that went beyond the hesitation. Hope your new tranny works out for you. I will see what I can find on the TSB. I only know to check NHTSA and Alldata websites, though.
TC002R-03 DEC 04 Engine/Transmission Controls - Resetting ECM Memory
TC010-04 DEC 03 A/T - Gear Selection Becomes Progressively Harder
TC007R-03 DEC 03 Transmission Controls - Poor Shifting Quality
SS004R-01 SEP 03 Engine Controls - Error When Reprogramming ECU
SS002R-01 SEP 03 Engine Controls - ECU Reprogramming Procedure
I cannot find any mention of bulletin 1307 (what you had done in April). It may be very new and not available on these sites yet. I can't get the new Lexus ES300/330 bulletin to show up either, but it was issued as an update to a 2003 bulletin.
I have been reading the Sienna thread, and as a result of something I saw there about a transmission replacement done on a Sienna, I then followed the story to this thread.
Yesterday I had service done at Toyota on Front (oil change, etc. while u wait), and I mentioned Edmunds story about transmission replacement, bad service and so on at Toyota on Front. The service guy asked me to show him on the internet so I took him to the Sienna thread and this one to show him.
I was told that under no circumstances was that story correct. He swore there haven't been any Sienna transmission replacements at that dealership since 2002 when they did a couple because of a defect. Not only that he said they have not had any complaints about the hesitation problem reported by any Sienna owner. They also have not had to replace any solenoids like those shown in the Sienna thread or this one. I have no reason to doubt what I was told by this man because the people at that dealership have always been honest with me.
Someone isn't telling the story right and now I'm very curious, Who is correct either the sevice guy or the owner who says a transmission was replaced. Which is it?
No harm intended, but in all fairness, there could be a third person not telling the story right and that would be you.
Donx has been a long time poster here (I did a search under his name - joined in 2003) and has been posting prior to his purchase of the Sienna and his after- buying experience, including his transmission woes. It would be a very strange charade to carry on for so long, and for what purpose? Choosing between a dealership that has its reputation to worry about (i.e., would not be expected to freely give out info on tranny failures and amount of warranty repairs done) and donx, I think I will go with donx on this one. Sorry.
I should have known better than to post my story.
Well, I'm not lying and I resent your inference. The man I talked to at Toyota on Front was genuinely shocked when he saw what had been said in this and the Sienna thread. He was not hiding anything from me. He said what I posted. I thought it should be told in this board because I thought people should know.
I have no reason to doubt someone who I have dealt with for 9 years and who I know to be an honest person. I do have reason to doubt anonymous posters who make accusations that they believe no one can be verify. That is until somebody asks an innocent quiestion because she is concerned about her dealer being accused, and then gets told the story doesn't jive at all with their records.
Believe what you want. I told it like I heard it. :P
Think about the probability that he would actually know, or not, if a Sienna had gone through the poster's story. Had he gone off and checked the records and come back and said "never happened" it would be more believiable to me. His instant, "off the top of his head" answer and shocked expression tell me he was prepared with an answer, a lying answer. Or to be more fair maybe he simply didn't know but knew the company line.
Walk into any Toyota or Lexus shop and casually ask the salesperson about the engine hesitation problem and you will get a "what, where did you hear that?".
If you have the correct air of confidence of, about, yourself you can easily carry the conversation further wherein the salesperson will eventually admit knowledge of the symptom.
NOT!!
Cynicism like that is usually an indication of the same set of values held by the cynic making the accusations.
Undoubtedly there are auto dealers worthy of your scorn Mr.West, but there are many more who are decent, honest, and who sincerely try hard to provide the best service they can. Clientel with cynical attitudes likely have a lot to do with the odd dealership deserving of your criticism Mr.West.
I have done business with Toyota on Front for 9 plus years. They are NOT deserving of your criticism Mr. West.
I have dealt with the same service technician all that time. He is an honest man. He did NOT react instantly to my initial question when I casually asked
He wanted to know what I was talking about, and I showed him by dialing up the internet on his computer and bringing him to first the Sienna thread and then to this one.
He didn't say anything at first, and just sat there with a puzzled expression. He was completely dumbfounded. He repeated three or four times that it wasn't true.
Afterwards he stated emphatically several times that no Sienna transmissions had needed replacing since 2002, when they had two that had a defect. He also said if I had time he would show me, but I took him at his word and declined. I believe what I was informed of. This man is a senior service technician at this dealership and has to know what he is talking about.
I felt it important to post what I found out in this conversation, because it is just too easy to slander someone or do harm by posting information which isn't true.
If you continue to insist this man was lying I can't stop it but I will say none of you were there, I was, and you are in no position to pass judgement on something you know nothing about. :P
Bonnie LaChance.
North York, Ontario.
There are a few places on the internet wherein you can check out this cynics value set.
teamseattle.com
Google search:
"pioneer 10" & Osprey
or simply search for:
denso & demist
Willard West
I used to work nearby Toyota on Front, so I have been quite familiar with the people there. Sales persons, I knew three of them personally. Johnny, he used to work there and has posted a lot of car sales articles and stories in local Chinese newspapers, he was nice guy, but moved to another Honda dealer in Toronto I think 2 or 3 years ago. Jenan, also seemed like a nice guy, he showed me around the Sienna 2001 when I was first researching Sienna but I was not happy with the older model at that time. Jason, he was very friendly and willing to help, it was my mistake to make decision to buy Sienna from them while they bought my Odyssey 1997 trade in with only $6200 and sold me the Sienna in MSRP (it was Sept of 2003, so it was not that hot). My buying experience was a long story which I don't want talk about again because I think I have been cheated during the process, but the sales manager's (an Aisan lady) altitude was horrible and I even mailed Toyota twice to complain about it.
Once I bought Sienna, I started dealing with the service guys with more than 10 visits (two maintenance services, I only have 16k km now, so only 2 oil changes so far). Regular maintenance, no complain so far. My first visits are the hesitation problems and never dealed with properly even after 2 road tests from there since the problem was intermittent, fortunately with the help of edmunds forum, I showed them the TSB on Nov 2003, and the service guy, Rod Sam, was able to reproduce the problem, and happily applied TSB for me. Another visit was for the middle seat of the second row, the side cover was broken when I got it! I went to this dealer more than 4 times, every time they ordered wrong part, finally the part guy, Jason (another Jason), gave me a seat from another Sienna (before I left for Christmas vacation in 2003), it was painfully to visit there 4 times with no correct seat cover, but Jason's final solution made me happy (I am a nice and reasonable person and easy to get settled).
There were some other small complains from my visit to this dealer during 2003, I heard very annoying whistling voice from driver side front tire (the noise is still there), but they always said it was normal, so I just gave up. Another complain was that when I ordered Sinenna, I was ready to get the seat with lumbar support, but was disappointed to see that it was not there, it was in the brochure, and it was a one of the reason I bought it (I am working with computer 15 hours a day and had neck and back problems). I complained to Toyota Canada and Toyota Canada asked me to contact the dealer directly. However, the sales manager Ben probably already heard of this and he quickly printed out a appendix from Toyota Canada, the print-out showed that there was an error in the brochure, and the CE 8 pass model has no lumbar support... I gave up and had no choice but to live with it.
During 2004, I received a letter from Toyota Canada for the fule tank recall (I was surprised when I bought my car in Sept 2003, I was driving a car with deficit fuel tank!), so I went there for the recall service. Again the service guy was Rod, he said there was no new fuel tank available, they had to order it. The seond week I called, he said Toyota found problem with the new fuel tank and are ordering newer one and he did not know when the new ones will available. Fortunatelly after 2 weeks when I called, he said the new tank was there so I finally got the deficit fuel tank replaced (after driving it for almost 1 year).
I also had other recalls done from there (I think was steering cable or something like that), I forgot who served me but no problem so far.
My biggest problem with them was this transmission problem. After they spend 2 weeks to do this and after leaving my car undrivable for 2 weeks and they refused to provide loaner car, I was beyond angry. I spent 1 hour over the phone with Rod, he was alway calm and polite, but he could not make decision. It was the manager who really pissed me off. His name is Ron. I always thought he was a nice guy, back in 2003, while inspecting my car's car seat when I struggled to remove it, he joked about the lady from the video who made it so easy. But this time was completely disappointed, the "who cares" altitude really hurted me.
The other service person I dealt with was Naiel, he seemed like a nice guy, I think he helped me one of the road test back in Oct of 2003 but never reproduced the hesitation problem. It was Rod who succesfully reproduced the hesitation problem while braking during cornering (following exactly what I instructed) and honored me the TSB reprogramming.
Because I have been in this dealership for so many visits, I have used their shuttle service (again in a Sienna) many times. Back in 2003, the guy who drove the suttle Sienna said the car has to learn my driving habit so there is some hesitation (I believed him at that time). This year, when I talked about my Sienna problem to the service guy who drove me to subwayand asked about how he felt about the car he was driving. He said they had problem with the shuttle for the 2004 model such as brake problem, sliding door problems (you have to slam to close it, btw, I have the same problem, but only the driver side one), but they sold the car as demo so no more problem, he is currently driving a 2005 model for suttle service. This guy also told me they (Toyota on Front) have dealt with many transmission problem with Sienna, some owner had to replace a new transmission when they got their Sienna new (I was shocked to hear that at first, but unfortunately I became one of the victims after 2 weeks, the only difference is that my car was 1.5 years old with 16k km). The second time he drove me to subway, I said why Sienna has so many transmission problems, he said only 3 of 7 Sienna owners he heard complained about the transmission problem. My goodness, if it was true (I think it's just his guessing because he only drove and talked to the Sienna owners who serviced the car there), Toyota really should have transmission recall for the new Sienna. What I was shocked is that the service guy who you talked to was lying like that. You can print out my response and show it to him, I hope he is not one of the persons I have mensioned here. Good luck with your Sinenna 2005, my new Transmission is ordered new and I think it might be the same with 2005 model? So far it was nice and I haven't experienced any hesitation problem yet.
>He swore there haven't been any Sienna transmission replacements at that dealership since 2002 when they did a couple because of a defect.
My invoice number for transmission replacement is TOCS62731, ask him to open the computer to type this invoice number. The technitian who did the replacement work from the invoice is Dennis Hernandez.
>Not only that he said they have not had any complaints about the hesitation problem reported by any Sienna owner.
Well, they had two complaints from just me in 2003 and 2005, if there were no problem, why they applied TSB twice to my car. The invoice number for Nov 21, 2003 Transmission TSB is TOCS42815, the invoice number for April 8, 2005 Transmission TSB is TOCS62195. Again, ask him to open the computer to type these invoice numbers. Also from what I heard from the service guy who drove shuttle service, he confirmed that this dealership not only dealt with lots of hesitation problems, but also replaced transmission for new Sienna (before me) when the car was delivered new!
>They also have not had to replace any solenoids like those shown in the Sienna thread or this one.
The invoice number for solenoid order is from the same invoice for the second TSB: TOCS62195. They ordered solenoid from Japan and waited it delivered to Vancouver and then to Toronto (I had to keep calling them for the status of the solenoid delivery and was informed when it was delivered to Vancouver then to Toronto, because I did not think they would call me).
What I am seeing seems to be a no-holds-barred effort to portray Toyota and its dealers as bad people, and all bad things said about them is always gospel no matter who said it.
I see it much different, from my personal and real experiences. Names have been named here. Funny thing--none of them correspond with people I have met at Front. Another odd thing, invoice numbers don't correspond with any that I have. A male courtesy driver said some things, but coincidentally the courtesy driver I see at Front has been a woman for the past year or so. One last point. The gentleman I spoke with at Front -an honest man- pointed out any transmission replacement they did would not be done in Front's shop because they use a certified transmission specialist elsewhere to do that kind of work.
But - No matter what I say, it is perfectly clear that someone will come on board here and deny it. I think it would be good thing for anyone who feels that much anxiety and stress about their car/van/suv would be wise to take the Bus from now on.
Taking the bus doesn't sound like a reasonable response for someone's problems with driveability of a $25,000 van.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
3 Invoices for ECM TSB, solenoid order and tranny replacement
The 1st one is for ECM TSB done in 2003.
The 2nd one is for ECM TSB and solenoid order done last month.
The 3rd one is for Transmission Replacement done last month.
Now, what is your invoice number pattern if you claimed you have different ones from me?
You went out of your way to prove your point. You really should not have had to do that. Anyway, I believed your story all along.
Good luck and keep us informed about your transmission.
Second invoice is dated 112103 has 2510km. Third invoice dated 050305 has 16110km. All three invoices have different selling dealer numbers. Courtesy driver is female but claimed to be a male who says transmissions are failing all over the place. One more strange thing. Name is Bonnie. Gender is female. But I am told I am not. I guess all of us are enjoying a little crow today. You are correct on one item. I won't be coming back.
Invoice #1 is dated 11/21/03 and has 2510 km
# 2 dated 4/18/03, 16,091 km
#3 dated 5/3/5, 16,110
He stated car was at dealer, not driveable between 4/18 and 5/3.
Regarding solenoid, from siennaclub.org, another member mentioned the same thing (topic 2190, post # 118, dated July 30, 2004 by member hbanzon):
They're replacing my transmission!
My '04 XLE was delivered in mid-november 2003, so I don't think the problem had been addressed on the assembly line. We've been having slightly different problems than the ones mentioned here. Ours downshifts abruptly ("harshly" is a better word) at highway speeds, going from 5th to 4th. And it does it immediately when lifting up on the accelerator. None of the low speed problems that everyone else seemed to talk about.
Finally got around to bringing it in last week (only 6,500 miles on the vehicle). First they replaced the solenoid. Same problem.
Then they replaced the ECM board. Same problem.
Now they're going to put in a whole new tranny. Hopefully that will fix it. But I've been without the car for a week now, and it's going to be out at least another.
If it still doesn't work, then I might do what a previous poster did and lobby for a new one. I'll follow-up when I get the car back next week. Wish me luck.
I didn't mentiong anything about the TSBs, but it seemed like they were doing things according to procedure. I guess everyone else with the new trannies are doing OK?
Another post about solenoid is below, my VIN does not belong to the effected one, but it looks like other than pressure control solenoid, there is problem with shift solenoid, maybe you were talking about shift solenoid?
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Some 2004 model year Sienna vehicles may exhibit a M.I.L. (Malfunction Indicator Light) "ON" condition with one of the following DTCs:
P0748 (pressure control solenoid "A" electrical -SLT solenoid
P0798 (pressure control solenoid "C" electrical - SL3 solenoid
P0985 (shift solenoid "E" control circuit low - SR solenoid
P0966 (shift solenoid "E" control circuit high - SR solenoid
One of these codes may be stored as a result of Engine Control Module or ECM manufacturing issues. Replacement of the ECM will correct this condition.
Effected VIN's are before:
FWD - 5TDZA2#C*4S117461
AWD - 5TDBA2#C*4S013796
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avalonkitten, "Toyota Avalon 2005+" #5602, 12 May 2005 9:39 pm
That's good enough to know. Bonaventure, if you are who you claimed to be, please call Rod to verify all the transmission problems happened to me. Or it will be obvious for everybody to know who your identity is and what's the purpose of your lies.
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havalongavalon, "Toyota Avalon 2005+" #5685, 17 May 2005 12:07 am
Quote: "I hope that you and any others with transmission issues will keep updating this forum and the rest of us will continue to show due respect for the genuine troubles and concerns of fellow Avalon {insert any model here} owners and prospective owners. On the long run, we all will gain from sharing such sometimes unpleasant but important information. "
I am new to the forum, trying to get confidence to order a new Avalon. The discussion over transmission hesitation has made me rather cautious.
Has anyone tried to contact the software company which programs the Avalon transmission? Green Hills Software, based in Santa Barbara, CA I found their web site:
http://www.ghs.com/Automotive.html which proudly states:
"We offer a complete range of products and services specifically designed to meet the software development requirements for automotive products
such as the Toyota Avalon engine and transmission control. "
Seems to me that they could explain how the transmission "learns", and how to get the transmission to reset factory settings. I have friends at work who have the equipment to link into a car's computers and change settings. Seems to me that some smart Avalon or Lexus owner who is also a computer geek could come out with an aftermarket product to monitor the transmission, to determine what it is learning that is "good", and what is "bad".
I would think that Green Hills Software would want to know what is wrong with their "intelligence" algorithms, and how they could be improved. Further, I bet that they have the test equipment to place into a misbehaving car to exactly figure out what is going on in the internals of the transmission. Anyone living close to Santa Barbara have a misbehaving Avalon / Lexus ?
Even if this problem happens in only 1% of the cars. . . that is a big problem and deserves to be fully researched.
Thank for listening, and thanks for sharing. (I have posted a similar note in the Avalon forum as well.)
In any case there can be no argument that these transaxles upshift at seemingly illogical times. My guess has been that the upshifting is done to allow longer coastdown times or distances and thereby improve the overall fuel economy and lower emissions. I have also surmised that the upshifting that occurs just before coming to a ful stop might be to prevent loss of directional control should the roadbed surface happen to be extremely slippery.
We now have ABS to prevent loss of directional control during severe braking, Trac to prevent wheelspin or slip during acceleration and possible loss of directional control on FWD vehicles, so why not a way to moderate engine compression braking at the front for the very same reason?
I have an engineer working on an aftermarket fix for the Toyota and Lexus flawed automatic climate control at this very moment. But I suspect that anyone wanting to develope an aftermarket fix for the engine hesitation symptom will end up fighting the very same entities as would the manufacturers, EPA, CARB, etc, absent be able to to state, truthfully, that the aftermarket product is for "off road use only".
as for independent aftermarket companies providing embedded SW for this critical functions, I highly doubt it would fly because of liability issues. imagine toyota (or another manufacturer) saying they won't warrenty the transmission or engine because some third party modified the ECU / TCM software without their consent.
seems much too risky for a manufacturer to allow that to happen, and even riskier for an end-consumer to tread down that path.
i think the day of the configurable automobile is well upon us, but to modify embedded programming is a proposition to be carefully contemplated no matter where you stand: OEM manufacturer, 2nd tier parts provider, end-consumer, dealer, regulatory agency, etc, etc.
i would think the modders / customizers would want to be careful in this area also. timing advance is one thing, but engine and transmission control at that level is another.
just my opinion.
Is there a way to comply with the regs AND avoid the hesitation problem? If the answer is yes, then I would say that Toyota is on its own. If the answer is no, then shouldn't EPA grant some leniency? -- a reduction in the fines, for example, if they make the software changes that result in emissions or fuel economy violations? It seems a compromise with the EPA and auto manufacturer's experiencing this problem is needed so we can get these cars fixed.
Can of worms, that.
Modifying embedded software/firmware.
The approach many aftermarket manufacturers are taking is some sort of pre-processing or post-processing, or both. Basically adding a processor, or device, that intercepts the sensor inputs to the OEM processor and modifies them to acheive a different computional result from the OEM processor than was planned by the manufacturer.
A simple version of this approach is currently being marketed on ebay. Someone has developed an aftermarket device that modifies the output of the airflow temperature sensor, thermistor, within the intake manifold. If the OEM ECU "thinks" the incoming airflow is colder (therefore denser) than it really is a higher level of fuel will be injected which will result in a richer mixture and hopefully more HP.
A 20HP gain is claimed at WOT.
No validation of the product, or claims, is intended here.
The approach my company is using to modify the flawed Denso automatic climate control in the Lexus RX series to get heated airflow to the windshield in defrost/defog/demist mode can be used as another example. Our idea is to "watch" the outlet airflow servomotor position feedback and when we see it has moved to the windshield defrost/defog/demist position we "force" the blower motor to full speed and "fool" the mixing vane servomotor into moving to the max heat position by modifying its own position feedback sensor accordingly.
So our aftermarket add-in ECU system both pre-processes sensor signals going to the OEM ECU and post-processes command signals generated by the OEM ECU.
#3348 of 3353 Re: [lena132] by nowoldmech May 16, 2005 (11:28 pm)
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My wife and I have been experiencing vague a arbitrary shifted of my 2003 Camry V6 LE for about a year. I had taken it back to the local dealer where we bought twice in the past year. The tech and the dealership owner both test drove the car and both said they could not duplicate any of the problems I described. Last week the car was taken to a dealership that is more than 50 miles from where we live. After a brief test drive the tech check the fluid level and found it to be over filled. He indicated he had to drain almost 0.9 quarts of fluid from the transmission. When I drove the car away from the dealership I noticed an immediate difference. It no longer hesitated when accelerating from a dead stop and shifts from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd seemed more normal. By more normal I mean that the engine would rev in each gear rather than sometimes abruptly shifting to the next higher gear. The car went from being (for me) annoying to drive to being pleasant to drive.
I had written Toyota Customer Service in December 2004 about the car and their position was "if the Dealership cannot duplicate the problem they cannot fix it." Now my concern is what damage has been done after driving with the transmission over filled. Guess I will write them again for an explanation and ask for an extension my warranty. One more thing I noticed is my Owners Manual does not have a procedure for checking automatic transmission fluid level!
Any opinions on this? I sure would be happy if this would solve the problem.