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Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)

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Comments

  • cam2003cam2003 Member Posts: 131
    Hey bkinblk,

    Your relacement part: 35290-45010 SOLENOID ASSY, LINE , is it possible a new part number ?
    Some reason I could not find above part number for my car ?
    What I found as list below:
    - 5 Speed Pressure Solenoid . 3529033010

    - 5 Speed Shift Solenoid
    19- 3 Way . 3524033030
    20- #1 . 3523033010
    20- #2 . 3523033020

    - Clutch Control Solenoid
    18 - #1 . 3521033010
    18 - #2 . 3522033010
    18 - #3 . 3527033020
  • josh5josh5 Member Posts: 34
    So as I posted, I had the new TSIB, software upgrade installed in my RX330. (To my knowledge, the solenoid was not replaced) When I drove out of the delearship, I did not notice a significant improvement in shifting/hesitation at first.

    But now that I've driven for a few days, I have noticed a dramitic improvement in the hesitation and responsiveness of the RX330. For the most part, the ECU is making fast gear selections, and the acceleration arc is smooth(er).

    It's not perfect though. When driving at 40mph, then slowing or braking down to 30mph, then hitting the accelerator, there is still significant (although less than before) hesitation, of 1-1.5sec. The car downshifts into 3rd gear fast, but does not respond and accelerate until shifting into 2nd. My point, the car still goes through 2 gear shifts, but quicker. However, there's still hesitation. Also, the RPMs hung up a few times at 4K for 1-2 seconds without my foot on the gas. Similar to what had been happening before the new TSIB.

    At this time, I'd say there is significant improvement in the responsiveness of the RX330. My jaw is no longer clenched when I drive. But it's not perfect. It's still a problem when I slow down behind a car, signal into another lane, then try to accelerate out and get 1-1.5sec hesitation.

    This is definitely a step in the right direction.
  • nowoldmechnowoldmech Member Posts: 6
    Just thought I should update you on our 2003 Toyota Camry that had the overfilled transmission. The hesitation when starting from a dead stop has not returned. Transmission shift points do seems somewhat quicker but are very consistent rather than arbitrary. Downshifts to passing gear are still normal (what a relief!)

    About the only 2 complaints I have are: 1) the feeling that sometimes when traveling at low speed and part throttle, when you try to lightly accelerate the car does not appear to be in any gear but abruptly shifts into gear (annoying). And 2) sometimes when traveling about 30+ mph and at moderate throttle, the transmission will shudder when shifting from what I think is 2nd to 3rd (or maybe 3rd to 4th).

    All in all the car is much less annoying to drive. This evening my wife was driving and felt the need to accelerate quickly from a dead stop through a left turn. I was in the right front passenger seat and felt the car performed well (or more like a normal car should).

    Hope those of you that found your cars transmission overfilled had good results after removing the overfill. Any one found a procedure in their (2003 Camry) Owners Manual yet for checking transmission fluid level?

    Is still intend to write Toyota and ask at least for an extension on my warranty (maybe even a new transmission) and an explanation. I will likely wait until after a short vacation end of June (we are driving the Toyota to a city in another state). I suggest all of you that are having problems of any kind write letters to Toyota documenting the symptoms and keep your warranty inspection/repair invoices.
  • cam2003cam2003 Member Posts: 131
    What's the ratio of 4 cylinder owners complaints vs. 6 cylinder owners for 5sp hesitation ? Most I heard from 6 cylinder owners. I know the 4 cylinder transmission gear ratio is quite different from V6 engine.
    Also, I noticed that the transmission was more responsive with car's full load vs. light load.
    Any thoughts ?
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    Only the V6 mated with the U151h transmission seems to be effected. Interesting about the solenoid part number. It is the pressure control solenoid. The number you posted is a lower sequential number than the one I had replaced. I got it directly from the work order. I was told it was not a new (re-tooled part), just a replacement. Maybe not. Anyway, the car does drive better, but still not perfect. I was disappointed that no recalibration is in the works, but if enough people complain, then I think we will see a change of heart from Toyota.
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    Thanks for the update. I took mine into Toyota and had the service advisor note that the fluid level was 1' above the hot line on the stick. However, whether it was the fluid level or the solenoid that caused some improvement in the shifting, I'll never know. But at least I have everything documented, if needed.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    bkinblk, you mean 1", not 1' right? there are 12" in 1' (foot). ;)

    post solenoid and fluid level change, your vehicle doesn't have the hesitation correct - just some vagueness in shifting?
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    oops! one inch above hot mark. So far, no hesitation, just the same indecisiveness in shifting. Tolerable, not perfect.
  • cam1cam1 Member Posts: 3
    I haven't had much luck with Toyota Canada. It took them 5 (FIVE) weeks to return my calls, and then ALL they would say is that Toyota is aware of the problem. At least I got to vent a bit. Amazing that Toyota seems not to care about this problem, and they are totally unaware of the damage it's doing to their reputation for building reliable cars...

    It's simply not possible to drive this Solara smoothly, because you never know from one second to the next whether or not your input to the gas pedal will be translated to the engine. In short, it's a lovely little car except that it's undrivable.

    I took my local service manager for a long drive so he could experience the hesitation phenomenon first hand, and he is now a believer. He's been in touch with other service managers about trying to find a fix at their level. They report that the newest Solaras no longer have this problem, and they are hearing rumors that there is a solution somewhere in the pipeline, but that's ALL they know.
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    The article states that "Reliability is made, or destroyed, there and in the automatic transmissions that link the two mechanical systems." Dave Hermance, executive engineer at Toyota Technical Center USA in Torrance, was quoted (regarding Prius), stating; "And the nice thing about electronic controls........is that they're easy to debug.

    REALLY! MESSAGE TO DAVE: READ THIS FORUM, THEN START DEBUGGING!
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    Post #731 of the Lexus Transmission Problems-ES-300-330 is very interesting. Will Toyota follow? My solenoid replacement greatly reduced the hesitation, but it seems that only a software reprogram will improve shift points and reduce "gear searching".
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    page 499, left column, 2005 RX330 owners manual:

    Section addressing failure modes of the electronic throttle control system.

    " ! CAUTION

    Be especially careful to prevent erroneous pedal operation."

    Who wants to volunteer to be the person to ask Lexus how many erroneous gas pedal positions and/or operations exist?
  • 2001prizm2001prizm Member Posts: 2
    Hi,

    I have a 2001 Chevy Prizm with 60000 miles. After running it hard in hot weather and letting it sit, but not cool completely, it will hesitate under re-start and under load the first 30 seconds of driving it. This is usually fixed by putting the clutch in and raising the RPMs a bit and then continuing to drive. It has gotten worse as of late and I am noticing some back firing at highway speeds. Any thoughts?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    hmmm...I wonder if you have leaky injectors or a faulty cold start valve or injector or sensor...that is, something sending gas into the cylinder after shut off. This would explain all your symptoms.
  • mert2mert2 Member Posts: 74
    I assume all the basics are taken care of: new/good plugs, cap, wires, air filter, battery is clean and properly charged?
  • 2001prizm2001prizm Member Posts: 2
    I just replaced the plugs and air filter. The wires are original, along with the cap. The battery is clean and charged. The little green "light" is even visible.
  • mert2mert2 Member Posts: 74
    Mr_ShiftRight I'm sure knows a lot more than I do, but my Hayne's book says the following about your problems:

    Engine backfires:

    *emission control system not functioning properly
    *ignition timing incorrect
    *faulty secondary ignition system (cracked spark plug insulator, faulty plug wires, distributor cap and/or rotor)
    *problem with the fuel injection system
    *vacuum leak at fuel injectors, intake manifold, air control valve or vacuum hoses
    *valve clearances incorrectly set and/or valves sticking

    engine stalls:

    *idle speed incorrect
    *fuel filter clogged and/or water and impurities in the fuel system
    *distributor components damp or damaged
    *faulty emissions system components
    *faulty or incorrectly gapped spark plugs
    *faulty spark plug wires
    *vacuum leak in the fuel injection sytem, intake manifold, or vacuum hoses
    *valve clearances incorrectly set
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The fact that this clears up generally after 30 seconds eliminates a lot of those suggestions but some of them could be the problem....and some are real long shots however and not likely to be intermittent. And a couple on the list are kinda dumb...but generally a good list, and thanks for posting it!

    I was keying in on his words "when hot" and "30 seconds".

    I'd throw in a brand new set of spark plugs and see how the car behaves. If it runs great for a while and then repeats the symptoms, you know something is fouling the plugs. If the new plulgs don't change a thing, that points me to something else--but it has to be something that is likely to be intermittent--- a cracked distributor cap really doesn't qualify, nor does a bad valve adjustment, and plug wires usually stay bad unless they get wet sometimes.

    it's hard for ignition timing to change very much on a modern car.
  • avalonkittenavalonkitten Member Posts: 20
    Hi Guys,
    I have been posting in Avalon 2005+ about my transmission issues. I have been at this since April 5th when I got my car. I have called and registered with the Toyota center. They have since closed my case. They tell me there is nothing to be done with the hesitation problems. I am being told "the car works as designed". Being a software engineer myself I can assure you, we would not be in business if we said that. They told me to take it to arbitration if I can not live with it. Strangely, the dealership has told me the same thing. I get the distinct impression this is going to be a long a protracted battle. I have filed with NHTSA. I was the first to file for the 2005 Avalon. If there are others of you out there PLEASE join the club. I will have them check the transmission fluid when I take it in for yet another round of fixing other minor problems I have found with the car. I am hesitant to reset the ECU. While the car still has issues (~20% of the time). They were much worse ~95% of the time when I first started driving the car. Has the reset helped anyone?? Finally, my dealership had the tech guru for my region drive the car (they, guru and service manager, said there was nothing wrong). However, my service manager also says that there are Avalon, Highlander, Camry, Mercedes, and BMW owners that have this problem and he has seen it in these other cars. He told me I should be glad I did not pay more for my headache. I do not remember buying a headache. I could swear I was buying a car.

    Is the Toyota District Manager the same as the tech guru? This is the first time I have heard of this person. I am so ready to park my car out front and tell people not to buy the car but my dealership has listened to my requests, tried to see the problem, and called in this tech guy. My beef is not with the dealership. MY BEEF IS WITH TOYOTA ! I have copies of my visits and notes concerning my calls. I did contact the green hill company that someone mentioned in the other column as Toyota's software provider but it turns out that they only supply the computer hardware. They said if I had software issues to contact Toyota. I told them I already had but to no avail. Has anyone else done Arbitration with Toyota on this matter?

    I took the car to my parents in Ohio over memorial day holiday weekend. I had the same problems I have had all along with hesitation and increased revving of the engine before it will shift to 2nd and 3rd gears on city streets after I get off the expressway. wwest's explanation of why the problem was happening actually made sense. My question remains can it or will it be fixed? :confuse:
  • nowoldmechnowoldmech Member Posts: 6
    I understand your frustration and the symptoms you describe are very familiar to me. As I said in my last post the hesitation when start from a dead stop has not returned. The overreving at the end of the shift when shift from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd is also not nearly as exaggerated or noticeable. The V6 has what is called variable valve timing which may explain some of that symptom. While it is possible the tech at the dealership more than 50 miles from our home may have done more than drain the overfill from the transmission with out revealing it to us, I doubt that he did more. Since the local dealer had the car twice (before the dealer in another city) and did not notice the overfill I suggest you have the fluid level check by someone you trust that is familiar with the procedure rather than trust it to the dealer. I suggest the car be completely warmed up before checking as the difference in the dip stick between cold and hot is quite large.

    While I am not an expert mechanic, I have a lot of experience rebuilding engines and transmissions (including a 1984 Toyota Corrola automatic). I am also an electronics engineer by education and occupation, and I have experience in electronic control systems. While I know that some that post to this board find it hard to believe that the more significant symptoms could be related to simple fluid overfill, Ockam's razor (William of Ockam) indicates something like "all things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the best". I think it is worth the time for you to have the fluid level checked by someone you trust. Remember, make sure the car is completely warmed up and on a level surface. Be careful as this particular dip stick has a metal tang that locks the head of the dip stick in place. The tang must be pushed aside in order to remove the dipstick.

    Good luck with your car. I know just how your feeling. I hope this helps.
  • cam2003cam2003 Member Posts: 131
    If there is a solution for permanent fix hesitation, Toyota would have done it for long time not waiting for last 5 years.
    Now I have to learn the car driving habit, not the other way around! :mad:
  • 05camry33se05camry33se Member Posts: 67
    It's amazing what people can get used to over time...what they thought was a sleek new car turns out to be a jerky stalling sled!!!

    and after a few months, the sheep fall into line and cease to whine..but I don't blame ya, I've resigned myself to just getting used to it too. I do owe it to oldworldmech to at least bring it in and drain the excessive tranny fluid and report. While it may help, I doubt it will fully fix the problem.

    I sure hope I never have to try to sell this thing. Then I'd be sued for dangling them out in traffic...
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    remember, bkbinblk had the solenoid replaced (and perhaps the tranny fill adjusted - we don't know) and the hesitation seems to be gone for the moment, although bkbinblk is still dealing with vague shifting (maybe that can be mitigated via software which seems to have solved an owner's problem with a ES300)...i think there is hope.

    once you know what solved one owner's problem (and hopefully the hesitation at least is solved for bkinblk), you can go to your dealer and tell them something they don't know. ;)

    ...its possible that the transmission solenoid replacement is a very expensive and labor intensive operation that they wish not to entertain.

    bkinblk - what did your work-order say in terms of labor hours?
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    I'm sorry to hear of the same problems with the new Avalon. I did have the solenoid replaced, which helped the hesitation problem. However, the car still exhibits jerky, indecisive shifting which makes driving it a miserable experience. I am a sales rep in LA, so I'm in the car much of the day. I'm afraid I'm at the end of my rope on this one. I filed for arbitration about a week ago. I was told by the Toyota regional rep that there is no software upgrade planned at this time. For anyone experiencing the same problem, you probably don't need to beat your head against the wall like I have for the past three months. You need to file a complaint with Toyota, and the NHTSA immediately. Next, file for arbitration, but come prepared (as I will), with supporting documentation, much of which can be found on this forum as well as on-line. It's too bad it has to be this way. Very disappointing!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    If the transaxles being overfilled was/is the problem and Toyota has not stepped up and issued a simple fix, drain a quart, then there just may be a highly valid reason the transaxle is being over-filled at the factory......

    In my world things have to make "some" sense.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You think like I do. I think everything is done for a reason, even if it is a totally crazy reason.

    Again, my feeling hasn't changed about this issue.

    Whenever a problem does not occur in 100% of cases, it usually has more than one cause.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    or there is more than one similar problem.

    there is the vague shifting, and there's the hesitation.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Guess which one has the hesitating transmission ? If I didn't know any better I would have thought Lexuses were the most dangerous cars to drive after reading the posts in this forum

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/0506/01/G01-199626.htm
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A SEVEN speed transmission? I'm not suprised the transmission controls are confused.
  • 05camry33se05camry33se Member Posts: 67
    That's why I'm hesitating to bring my v6 se in to have the 3/4" overfill drained off. It just seems like too much NOT to be intentional for some reason.

    It would be a real bummer to get it back and have the problem be worse. Right now, it hesitates from time to time, but overall I can manage it.

    I think I'll probably "wait and see" a while longer before I decide whether or not to bring it in...
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Pleased to see mostly good results from software upgrade at Lexus ES300 transmission problems forum. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef14656/724
  • cw3849cw3849 Member Posts: 1
    Save yourself alot of headache dude, and go have your fuel pump tested before you start all this trial and error. I mean it...
  • woody10woody10 Member Posts: 1
    After traveling various miles from a few to long trips when I bring the speed down to almost a complete stop the car will shut down. The results are I must re start. Past few times have found myself in the opposite traveling lanes.

    This situation has occurred since I purchased the car used about a year ago Caddy dealer not helpfull at all states no problem.
  • jim700jim700 Member Posts: 2
    I also have a 2001 Prizm with a similar problem. I just changed the plugs and it did not help. Car hesitates quite a bit when cold for first 30 seconds. After it is warm it hesitates very slightly. I bumped up the fast idle a bit and the hot hesitation is better. Was idling at about 700 rpm in neutral, now about 900.

    If you find the problem please post it. I will do the same.
  • jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    Hi all, just back from a week in a 2005 Camry LE Rental...4 Cyl 5spd automatic.... put about 1000 miles on the car in and around Yellowstone Nat Park. WOW! (the Park... and the car, pretty impressive for a main stream rental car) No hesitations, no funny shifting...Very smooth shifting. Has anyone with a 4 cyl 5 spd automatic commented on the trans? For the record, I have a 2003 Highlander V6 and an 2005 Highlander V6, having recently bought the 05 HL, and now my daughter drives our 2003 Camry SE 4 Cyl Automatic.

    Temps were from 31 to about 50 degrees, and we had snow falling for several hours of driving. This car had 3,000 miles of rental driving on it when I picked it up. For the record, we averaged well over 30 MPG on this trip...34.5 on first tank, 32.6 on second, and 33 on third. I actually thought the gas guage was broken, with the trip odo reading 330 miles at half tank! With 4 adults and a lot of stop and go sightseeing in the park. A lot of low speed driving, and I expected to feel some of the issues that have been mentioned here.

    Overall, a very nice trip..now back to my regularly scheduled life. :-(
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Is the Toyota District Manager the same as the tech guru? This is the first time I have heard of this person. I am so ready to park my car out front and tell people not to buy the car but my dealership has listened to my requests, tried to see the problem, and called in this tech guy

    Yes, he's often one and the same. The Lexus District Service Manager who services about a dozen dealerships in California is apparently the same guy that teaches the mechanics all about the latest technical matters. He would be intimately familiar with all of the problems that owners typically report, and any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) in order to address those problems --if a workable fix has been developed. The Toyota District rep will work the same way as the Lexus rep; indeed, he/she may be the same person.

    Don't hold your breath for a fix or a fair shake. What you will likely be told is that the car is operating normally. That's S.O.P at the dealerships. Toyota/Lexus must have deduced that it's cheaper to buy back some cars, and pay some lawsuits after people are maimed or killed in their cars, rather than recall and fix these defective vehicles. So much for Lexus' "Passionate Pursuit of Perfection".

    I'm moving ahead with arbitration on my 2005 Lexus RX330, the one with the slip'n slide transmission and the extra loud, extra noisey interior.
  • bkinblkbkinblk Member Posts: 198
    I recently received notification that my application for arbitration has been accepted. I made a last ditch effort and called Toyota "Customer Experience" to see if there were any new revelations. No. They still were polite and did not acknowledge any transmission problems, other than the standard " I'm sorry to hear you are having these problems". I did let them know, however, of the impending arbitration. Yesterday, I received a call from Toyota. This time, they had lots of questions about the problem I was experiencing and told me I would be getting a call from the District Service Manager. (apparantly the last one I dealt with for the valve "fix" has been transferred). I don't know what to make of this call. Damage control? Genuine concern? Covering their you know what? If the new DSM drives the car and deems it "normal" and it becomes a matter of record, will this hurt my chances for satisfaction in the arbitration? Posters opinions are welcome.
  • mert2mert2 Member Posts: 74
    There's definitely an odd shifting thing going on. I notice it when I'm cruising the parking lot, looking for a space. If I hit the gas, there's a *slight* delay while it shifts to the right gear. Also noticed it on the interstate when I was going through construction zones (bumber to bumber, stop & go).

    But, I'm used to choosing my own gear via the shifter in a '96 prizm, and I tend to wrap it up a good bit before going on to the next gear. Plus, I've always thought my wife's '99 Camry shifted *funny*. It does some of the things this car does, like shift to 4th where I would've been in 2nd in the prizm.

    It drove me nuts the first couple of weeks, but now I've gotten kind of used to it and it doesn't really bother me. I had a BIG case of buyer's remorse too since this was the first new car I've ever bought (usually buy beat up econo-cruisers), I'm sure that played a part in the annoyance factor.

    Right now though I'm enjoying the car and don't feel this is a safety issue in the slightest. Though, I realize I may not be experiencing what you guys are talking about.
  • cam2003cam2003 Member Posts: 131
    Well, Just first 1500 miles you may not have experience with hesitation yet since the car may be still in learning mode. As the mileage goes up, the transmission will act funny. It would be showed obviously if you switch back and forth between old car (your wife's car) and your new car.
  • sahgrisahgri Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone found the solution to the 2001 Chevy Prizm Engine Hesitation at Start-up problem? My college-aged daughter's Prizm is having this problem, and after having taken it to the garage, having a bunch of diagnostics run on it, and having found NOTHING, I have now resorted to searching the web for an answer. This is the only site that mentions a problem that sounds like hers. She says hers happens intermittantly, and sometimes gets better, if she turns the cars off, then back on, or if she pumps the gas a bit. I don't want her to break down somewhere.
    Please post, if someone has found the actual solution.
  • xpfshostxpfshost Member Posts: 35
    Well, it looks like my '05 Camry LE (auto + 4 cylinder) has a hesitation problem. It was purchased at the end of April. Drove it to VA and back to NJ and it feels like there is a 'miss' when driving between 60-75. It's especially noticeable when the cruise is on and trying to maintain speed up a gradual slight grade. It seems to only happen when the gas is being gently applied. I can only describe it as a slight intermittent jerkiness. Also, I'm getting some indecisive shifting at low speeds (10-20mph). This happens when I'm driving at a slow speed (or have just slowed down), then I hit the accelerator. It shifts slowly to the next gear and you can hear the engine gradually rev higher for about 2 seconds (sometimes 3), then it shifts to the correct gear. I have scheduled a service appointment for this coming Saturday (can't wait...). I don't think anything will change, but I refuse to fall into the camp that says that the new automatic transmissions aren't fully automatic anymore. If cars used to shift properly before without added user intervention, why shouldn't they shift properly now?? Also, if Toyota is claiming that owners who complain about the problem aren't driving their cars correctly, maybe they should be handing out owner's manual supplements that educate us dopey drivers (some of us have been driving for over 25 years now, BTW) how to drive the Toyota way... This was the most I ever paid for a car and it was hard for me to afford, but I bought it anyway based on Toyota's reputation. Will I buy or recommend another Toyota?? I'm gonna say 'NO'!

    xpfshost
  • dino01dino01 Member Posts: 26
    There two new tsb for camry that came out on june 21, 2005. tc005-05 for 1mz-fe and tc003-05 for the 3mz-fe
  • jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    dino, thanks for this info, I bet alot of the posters here will really appreciate it. Do you have a link to the TSBs, and do you know if it will apply to all other Toyota products with the same engines/trans?
  • mert2mert2 Member Posts: 74
    Thanks for the heads up.

    What are the details of the TSBs?
  • jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    Dino, thanks! Can you also post the TBS # tc003-05 for the 3mz-fe ???

    Do you know if there is a sepersate TSB for the other Toyota models using the same engine/transmission? ie: Highlander?
  • dino01dino01 Member Posts: 26
    I don't have the other pdfs. For Highlander I believe it is #tc004-05.
  • cam2003cam2003 Member Posts: 131
    with 1MZ-FE 5-speed A/T :confuse:
  • mert2mert2 Member Posts: 74
    Is this TSB something that the warranty would cover, or should I expect to shell out for it? If so, how much?
  • dino01dino01 Member Posts: 26
    Please read the tsb it said this will be cover under Toyota Federal Emission Warranty for up to 8 years or 80,000 miles whichever come first.
This discussion has been closed.