Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The RL was plain before but at least it wasn't ugly, however that's not the case anymore, way to go Acura...
Acura claimed that only 2 body panels remain unchanged, can anybody see that? I can't. 300 hp with the same 5-speed auto really isn't anything to write home about.
According to Acura this new front fascia will reflect on the upcoming TL and TSX as well... WHAT ARE THEY THINKING!!
:sick:
Acuras are becoming the new Gladiators!... shields and all. :lemon:
TM
And that's exactly why some people simply hate Lexus. They don't put any passion into their cars--they just want money, money and more money.
Why not make a cute ute with great handling, if you can? To save a buck? As if Toyota needs to save money.
That would make short work of the RDX and EX35, which both get mileage in the teens.
I'm not so sure. Watch for X3 and EX diesel variants, and possibly an RDX diesel, seeing Honda's recent interest in US diesel powertrains.
Also, the fact that it will be a re-badged RAV4 is quite a turn-off for some buyers. None of the cars from the competition share parts with cheaper vehicles... yes, the Q5 will be built on the A4 platform, not the Jetta/Rabbit platform.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
But I like the IS350 a lot. Good choice :shades:
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
It was an effortless and comfortable high speed cruiser that could still hustle through the twisty bits. It was a true Grand Touring car.
And that... well, that sounds exactly like the new M6! So I guess BMW did a good job reincarnating it!
I love the M3 and M5 and they're my top choices at BMW, but the M6 is looking more attractive every day. My one quibble is the lack of rear seat space. The 3 Series coupe is more capacious.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
For all BMW 5 Series haters out there... I hope you know that this car makes the 5er look STUNNING!
Acura has no idea what it's doing any more...
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
link title
It certainly puts my X5 to shame.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
:surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
At least it's interior doesn't look like a Lincoln Town Car...
:P
Let's not forget there are a lot of people out there who are looking for passionless cars, let's see... Corolla owners, Camry owners, ES owners, RX owners...
Do you think BMW and Audi make "passion" cars due to some holy all mighty reasons? No, they make those cars because there is a market for it and by doing so they are making a lot of profit. Toyota is doing the same thing but just targeting a different market.
That being said I am not looking forward to see Lexus' baby ute as a glorified RAV4, I think it should be based on the IS platform and be a true EX/X3/RDX competitor. But knowing Lexus, it's highly unlikely that will happen.
the fact that it will be a re-badged RAV4 is quite a turn-off for some buyers
It won't be a re-badge RAV4 but the two are likely to share platform, just like the RX and Highlander. Sure some buyers will be turned off by the idea but I am sure there are lot of buyers who will snatch up one in a heardbeat. Case to the point: RX.
According to Acura this new front fascia will reflect on the upcoming TL and TSX as well... WHAT ARE THEY THINKING!!
My sentiments exactly. I think the new rear end of the RL is actually worse than the front though. It's now a horrendous mix of Accord and BMW 7 series. Unbelievably ugly. For the interior they added a bit of wood on the console and gave it a rather ugly new shift knob. It still has the lousy center stack layout, and worse, that hack-job of a keyless ignition system. For 2009. Everybody and their grandmother has a start button, except for Acura.
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/february2008/acura-rl-7.jpg
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/february2008/acura-rl-5.jpg
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/february2008/rl-live-27.jpg
I'll take the X5 over that thing any given day...
The 6 and M6 still do nothing for me. IMO, they are by far the ugliest of all the Bangle BMWs. The XKR just looks soooo much better, and doesn't have that maddening interface that the M5 and M6 have. The XKR or the R8 might not have V-10 power, but there's no way I'd choose an M6 over either.
Apparently MB hasn't caught up with grandma yet...
"BMW Automobile Sales
Monthly sales of BMW brand automobiles decreased 28.8 percent in
January, to 11,053 versus 15,528 in 2007 reported last January.
BMW Sports Activity Vehicles
Sales of BMW Sports Activity Vehicles were down 19.2 percent for the
month, to 3,422 vehicles compared to the 4,233 reported last January."
Don't see any rise here! Of course, BMW used its typical BS spin to say the reason that sales are down in 01/08 is because of the high demand in December '07 and therefore inventory was affected. Wow! I guess BMW has never heard of inventory management then. There arrogance continues to rise to new levels of this most overhyped brand.
BMW has never heard of inventory management
There arrogance continues
this most overhyped brand
Is it my imagination, or does viso dislike BMW?
Hey Viso... :P
TM
Apparently MB hasn't caught up with grandma yet...
What do you mean? MB has had Keyless Go! for years now.
:confuse:
I can't see the 100% markup would last long that the GT-R being mass produced along side with the G37. Unless, Nissan decided to artificially keep the number down.
There was another post of yours regarding BMW's TT i6 engines and the possibility of being trumped by TT v6. Well, I think this is a perfect example. Now if they passed on this technology into the G3x cars, then I believe BMW would have to rethink their i6 strategy. Of course Lexus would have to pull its own TT v6 as well.
As a counterpoint, here's a link to a very funny ad for the BMW lover's on this board. Unfortunately I can't post it directly, you'll see why not :shades:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/bmw_ultimate_attract- ion.jpg
I think because the ES doesn't really try to hide what it is, a trim level above Camry XLE with better dealers and better service. Lexus doesn't use it to try and go after the E-class, they have the GS with its dedicated RWD platform and V8 option for that.
No keyless push button in the new C-class...
The 3-series has one.
The IS has one.
The G35 has one.
Even the Altima and Camry has one...
'nuff said.
Maybe the GT-R will be mass produced but we are only getting 1,500 units per year here in the states. To be honest, I think it's a smart move on Nissan's part to artificially keep the number down because otherwise every rich kid will go snatch up one and give it an even more boy racer image.
Now if they passed on this technology into the G3x cars, then I believe BMW would have to rethink their i6 strategy
That's exactly what I was thinking. If the Infiniti and Lexus V6s already have potential to put out around 350hp without force induce just imagine what will they be with a mild TT setup like the BMW TT I6. I say at least 400hp and 350 lb-ft of torque, that's almost M3/IS-F territories!!
Of course Lexus would have to pull its own TT v6 as well.
Can you say Supra or SC450. :P
LOL... thanks LG.
TM
Entry level or no entry level, there is no excuse for them not to offer keyless push button in their C-class when BMW and Lexus had offered that in their entry models more than 2 years ago.
Or IS450 to counter G45/G47.
The big question is what does BMW have up its sleeves when/if that happens?
I just quoted a post from one of our BMW fans in this forum.
Dewey is generally our financial and numbers man here. Most likely he made the original post, and he can probably clarify all of this.
TM
TM
Why do you think I am done defending Acura?
:sick:
The big question is what does BMW have up its sleeves when/if that happens?
Did they stop making the 650i and 3-series coupe?
However, I do see low pressure TT 6-cylinder engines to eventually replace the gas guzzling V8s with the oil pricing keeps going up though.
There was also supposed to be decontented version of the RL which apparently hasn't materialized. I'm not really surprised, the loaded RLs are going out the door now for what, $40K? They can't go any lower without bumping right into the TL's price tag. They also can't expect to lure in new customers by charging the same as last year for a car with half the equipment in it. Acura is stuck on this one, and if it's anything like the last RL (also a big fat dud) it will be around for quite awhile. When Acura blows it on something, they tend to let it twist in the wind while they work on other projects. Not the smartest strategy in the world. This car needs a dedicated, front-midship RWD based platform, it needs a V8 or possibly a hybrid option, it needs to not look like a gussied up Accord, and it needs to be called the Legend.
Yes, indeed.
When Hyundai is about to kick Acura in the a-- with its Genesis, and almost everyone else has something better for the money... Buyers should either get the Accord and forget about Acura, or look elsewhere entirely.
TM
My clarification is this: I GOOFED!!
I looked for the website with those BMW numbers and I cant find them. Turns out those numbers are DEAD WRONG. :sick:
Next time I will link my sources.
Turns out BMW has a long way to go to beat Lexus. Despite my error the Lexus-BMW sales gap is becoming progressively narrower as each year goes by.
In reality that is not the case with my BMW 335i. Quite a few times I had to cancel appointments because my car was stuck in the snow.
I hate the idea of buying a third car and I also hate the idea of substituting my RWD car with an AWD one. No offence to the Audi folks but I want all my RWD performance cars to be RWD models.
Anyways I have to make a decision soon because my car may affect my livelihood (my clients hate cancellations and reschedulings especially when I make the lame excuse of liking RWD cars better during summers) :lemon:
Unfortunately my 98 323i which I drove for 8 years without snowtires drove better than BMW335i with snow tires. :surprise:
Sales BMW of North America, LLC, January 2008
YTD YTD
Jan 08 Jan 07 % Jan 08 Jan 07 %
3 Series 6,844 10,199 -32.9% 6,844 10,199 -32.9%
Z4 Roadster and
Coupe 363 472 -23.1% 363 472 -23.1%
5 Series 2,771 3,331 -16.8% 2,771 3,331 -16.8%
7 Series 710 1,003 -29.2% 710 1,003 -29.2%
6/8 Series 365 523 -30.2% 365 523 -30.2%
BMW passenger cars 11,053 15,528 -28.8% 11,053 15,528 -28.8%
X3 1,091 1,787 -38.9% 1,091 1,787 -38.9%
X5 2,331 2,446 -4.7% 2,331 2,446 -4.7%
BMW light trucks
(SAVs) 3,422 4,233 -19.2% 3,422 4,233 -19.2%
BMW brand 14,475 19,761 -26.7% 14,475 19,761 -26.7%
Cooper Hardtop 2,157 1,669 29.2% 2,157 1,669 29.2%
Cooper Convertible 303 381 -20.5% 303 381 -20.5%
Cooper Clubman 0 0 0.0% 0 0 0.0%
MINI brand 2,460 2,050 20.0% 2,460 2,050 20.0%
TOTAL BMW of North
America, LLC 16,935 21,811 -22.4% 16,935 21,811 -22.4%
Now the question is: What happened to the 3-series?
Source: BMW Group (BMW and MINI) Reports January Sales
Hey Tagman :P Back at ya.
These past few years 3 series sales have grown favorably in a very consistent manner. And during those years there were months when the 3 series dropped substantially.
We wont know the truth of the 3 series decline until this decline becomes consistent in the upcoming months.
But there is a very good likelihood that the 1 series may cannibalize sales from the 3 series.
(INCLUDES FLEET & HAWAII)
January, 2008
---- CURRENT MONTH --- -- CALENDAR YEAR
TO DATE --
DSR % DSR %
2008 2007 CHG 2008 2007 CHG
ES 350 4,346 5,320 -18.3 4,346 5,320 -18.3
LS 460/600h L 1,906 3,006 -36.6 1,906 3,006 -36.6
SC 430 183 302 -39.4 183 302 -39.4
GS 350 1,270 1,368 -7.2 1,270 1,368 -7.2
GS 460/450h 210 183 14.8 210 183 14.8
IS 250/350 3,262 3,395 -3.9 3,262 3,395 -3.9
TOTAL LEXUS PASS. CAR 11,177 13,574 -17.7 11,177 13,574 -17.7
LX 570 710 287 147.4 710 287 147.4
GX 470 1,657 1,713 -3.3 1,657 1,713 -3.3
RX 350/400h 6,755 6,544 3.2 6,755 6,544 3.2
TOTAL LEXUS LIGHT TRUCK 9,122 8,544 6.8 9,122 8,544 6.8
The question here is: What happened to the ES?
Source: Toyota Reports January Sales
I did not create the excuses BMW used to explain their reasons for the fall in sales for 01/08 as compared to 01/07. Instead of making excuses, they should admit their sales fell and that is it. Don't try to cover it up with inventory excuses (such as the sinking of some carrier ship, etc.) or a high demand in 12/07 (which isn't true either) that depleted inventories.
I did not create any excuses either. We don't really know if BMW has made up excuses, although it seems unlikely. Aside from any reasons BMW has supplied, any decline in US sales for January '08 is quite possibly no mystery at all anyway... the USA is in or nearly in a recession, depending upon who you believe. Some of the housing market data is at its worst since the depression, and the stock market is volatile. The consumer sentiment is low, and family budgets are strained. Starbucks even felt the change, so why shouldn't BMW? The rest of the planet is also under financial stresses, largely due to the USA's woes.
Anyway, your last post is a lot more balanced than your first post, although it is still extreme. For example, as a third-generation American I certainly don't think of BMW as the second coming of the Messiah, and most Americans do not feel that way at all. This particular forum, which does not represent mainstream America consists of car buffs, and some favoring the German cars, which would include BMW, as well as the obvious others. When I replied to your first post, I listed the four extreme remarks that you made.
Surely you can admit that you took quite a number of shots at BMW, and now at Americans for thinking that BMW is the second coming. C'mon now... be more realistic. Are you a BMW stockholder?... otherwise you don't need any explanation from BMW, do you? No company is perfect. Perhaps, it is you that expects too much from BMW and holds them up on a pedestal. Considering BMW's history of accomplishments, there is a lot to be credited to them. IMO, it is easy enough to point a finger at all the manufactures for one thing or another.
Now, I'm not suggesting for a minute that BMW should be immune from criticism. I am, however, pointing out that the numerous remarks you made were quite "descriptive"... LOL.
Let's see how the rest of this year pans out for all of the manufacturers, especially for you, sales from the "second coming" (
BTW, since you mentioned "all of you Americans"... it begs the question, where are you located?
TagMan
To some extent that is inevitable and true. I do believe, however, that some buyers, like myself, would not have purchased a BMW at this time if it weren't for the 1 series. I'm definately buying a 135i for what it is... and not instead of a 335i.
TM
Welcome to the forum.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm looking at viso's posts, and the replies, and I'm just wondering... what you really mean by that kind of comment? :confuse:
And, who exactly is "us", "they", and "them"?
TM
"WOODCLIFF LAKE, N.J., Feb. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- The BMW Group in the U.S.
(BMW and MINI combined) today reported January vehicle sales of 16,935,
down 22.4 percent as expected from the 21,811 vehicles sold in the same
month of 2007. Sales were impacted by lower than normal inventory levels
due to a very strong retail performance in December and high demand for
all-wheel drive models."
I just think this a spin and a bit arrogant. They should just admit sales fell from a lack of demand. Audi and MB posted slight gains and Lexus fell. I did not see any of these carmakers putting spin to their sales numbers or excuses. That is all I am saying.
I'm in Europe, and here BMW is not as coveted as Americans make the them to be. We see Audi and MB as equals and better in many ways as in Germany both represent very old marquees with coveted histories.
I've noticed as have many Euro enthusiasts that American automotive magazines tend be very bias towards BMW in relation to the competition. I think this isn't fair to the consumer. It gives the impression to too many Euro auto enthusiasts of almost "worship" like qualities placed on BMW by American Automtovie Magazinzes when we know other premium carmakers make just as good and in many ways superior vehicles. You can attack me all you want, but that is the impression. Best
Again, you made those remarks, not me, and I did not attack you for them... I only suggested that you obviously don't seem to like BMW, based upon your own remarks.
Let's not get off on the wrong foot here. I have no beef with you, and I think your concerns are fine. Again, it was just your own remarks that got my attention. I re-posted them to illuminate them. They honestly were quite strong, and they were yours, not mine.
With regards to the way BMW is treated in the American automotive magazines, I don't see much difference in the American magazines than I do when I occassionally check out the European rags with regards to the BMWs. BMW has received many awards for their engines and their cars, not just in the USA, but worldwide.
The 3-series has been sort of an icon and a benchmark in its segment for an amazing number of years, so I'm sure that has bolstered their image. Porsche also has an icon with the 911 and receives a very a favorable response from Americans and American magazines, but also does so on a worldwide level.
I have no dispute with your data, only the nature of the remarks you made, and I maintain my opinion. I have never owned a BMW, so I am no BMW fanatic. I have my very first BMW on order, and I hope I like it. It will be a 135i. I am therefore currently enthusiastic about BMW. The magazines, and Jeremy Clarkson, and many critics seem to like the 135i a whole lot. I hope they are right about it. If not, I will get rid of it. Somehow, I'll bet the car will be as great as they suggest.... don't you agree that the 135i is likely to be a great car?
Anyway, welcome to the board. Don't be put off or misled by suggestions that you are going to be attacked by those that disagree with you. That is not the case at all, and I hope that you do not see my reply as such. If so, I am glad to clarify with you that I am not attacking you at all. You will see that most of us are passionate about cars and love to yak about them. There will be some heated moments, but as Dewey so very well demonstrated, most of us are ready to admit when we post an error. You obviously can hold your own here, and I am sure we will have some good times ahead.
Where in Europe? BTW, jlbl (Jose) is a poster from Spain that we enjoy as a member of this forum. Having your European perspectives will be an enhancement to our conversations and I personally truly welcome your opinions and perspectives.
TagMan
You know what I meant.
It won't be a re-badge RAV4
Once again, you know what I meant. The only Lexus that's re-badged is the LX, and now even the LX570 is somewhat different from the LC.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
I can see why you'd say that, but I'm one of the people who love Bangle's designs. The only one that is truly boring is the E90 sedan. The others are interesting and extremely modern.
I used to feel the same way about the 6er (didn't do anything for me), but when I saw the updated version and also saw the M6, I instantly loved it.
The XKR just looks soooo much better, and doesn't have that maddening interface that the M5 and M6 have.
Aren't you a bit biased?
I agree that it looks MUCH better from every angle, but at the same time they can't be compared. The 6 is a piece of art, the XK is a piece of [non-permissible content removed], as much as a car can be.
As for the interior... doesn't the XK have a maddeningly slow processor in its nav system?
The XKR or the R8 might not have V-10 power, but there's no way I'd choose an M6 over either.
Well R8, duh.
It would be hard for me to choose between the XKR and M6, though. I would take the XKR over an SL, no questions asked. Especially considering that the XKR convert--with 40 more horses, a nicer interior and better looks, nonetheless--is less money than the base SL550. However, that V10 in the M is certainly appealing. The XKR is the car I would take to drive all year long, but the M6 is the car I would take if I was looking for a toy.
Well, that's all relative. At that price I'd only take an R8.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet