For Rocky to admit that the Jetta TDI was a good car, took a lot from a die hard GM fan. That vehicle has not spent much time cooling off. Even if bought in late 2008 it has 50k per year on it. He is a die cutting press operator. I think he travels to several of their locations.
who started the board that said, in essence, that a Pontiac was the equivalent of a BMW? I think the topic was: "BMW 5-series or Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (Topic #1579)." You had to be there, but it was entertaining.
So if the Rocky I remember is embracing a diesel VW, it's time to go buy a lottery ticket.
Shouldn't the company car for a machine shop be a truck or something? I think it is neat that it is there for any employee to use, and it keeps on chugging!
I get the feeling he is in the tooling end of the company. So no more than a sedan is needed to take the tools to different manufacturing facilities. I would hate to be driving a gas guzzling PU truck 50k miles a year. That would be $10,000 or more a year in $3 gas. Where the Jetta TDI is less than $5000 a year with $4 diesel. He did not say if it was the Sportswagen or sedan.
Just filled with ULSD @ $3.78 per gal (cheap for around here). So@ 42 mpg (stated mpg)= 5,952 gals , 250,000 miles @ current pries =$22,499. Further, that is .09 cents per mile driven: FUEL.
Truckmiles.com says the national average is $3.811, so you did good. Michigan average is $3.939, so my local station isn't gouging as badly as I assumed ($3.99 here).
Looks like Missouri has the cheapest at $3.57 and OK is only 9/10ths more.
Same old thing around this time every year pre-winter. Even though every year more and more households hook up to NG.
I think something that is important for those who try to compare diesel fuel use cost vs gas use, is that they should consider that the driving dynamics of a diesel is a much more rewarding experience. Whenever I read about someone considering a diesel (especially for the first time) and they seem so fixated on mpg vs price of diesel vs price of gas, I maintain that there are two other important considerations. The superior driving dynamics of diesel is a huge perk, but...IMO..and this opinion has been sort of growing in a negative way, I am becoming more concerned with the costs (entry and ongoing) of the level of tech that is now being used in diesel engines in order to meet the ever strict/biased/agenda'd emission regs.
It seems blasphemous in a way..here we have this ICE which can do absolute wonders and all with nary a hint of any electrics whatsoever. Nothing! Zero..zilch..nadda!
So just because we can electrocize the crap of 'em...should we?
Ok, so I admit I have sorta argued both sides of the coin here. If mony is no object..or at least not a first and foremost consideration, then by all means go diesel cuz the driving dynamics are more rewarding than a gas job. If your particular requirements and habits happen to fit in with a modern diesel (no short trips whatsoever) then yes..you'll be impacted le$$ by this new tech and the cost to go diesel has greater potential to balance out, if driving dynamics is taken entirely out of the equation. But if you can afford to not even weigh that as a factor one way or the other, then diesel is the way to go for the rich.
Ironic really...many don't even realize it and pick gas out of ignorance.
We have 6 stations now within 10 miles of me selling diesel for $3.79. Lowest in my area since buying the TDI. Can it go any lower? I still have almost half a tank from my fill up in AZ on the way home. That was at $3.75. I'm happy at $4 a gallon compared to the Sequoia at under $3.
Unfortunately "superior driving dynamics" to most people means that their phone pairs with the nav the first time and their radio displays the artist and song playing on their USB stick. And how much torque do you need to sit in wall to wall traffic twice a day on the 401?
Not much. A better question would be how much is required for peaceful pace-maintaining driving in the mountains that ruking does regularly? Same for gagrice when he heads to the hills.
The thing that I'm trying to communicate but am finding difficulty with, is that in some circumstances, a diesel is really the only logical option no matter what the costs (or savings) are. But with that assumption in mind, there is a price to be ultimately paid for that task perfection. The real $ equation just can't be determined in the short-haul. Or at least, not compared to gas jobs. And when I say short-haul, I mean 100k miles. Hell, 200k or even 250k (as in the most recently talked about and anecdotal 09 company (everyone-and-their-driving-habits-drives-it) TDI, is not really enough miles to see what the final tally is. The problem with passionately supportive, pro-diesel stories like this is just that...they are anecdotal stories. Sure...we know that TDI has gone 247k miles and still going strong...but do we really know how many input dollars have been injected into that car to get to the 247k miles? In the real world, that engine could technically have needed 4 or 8 glow plugs, 4 timing belts/water pumps, 4 new fuel injectors, possible cam shaft pressed pulley issues and far more probably turbo issues that may or may not have required a new one if it was found to be sucking oil a little early. Same too with the potential fuel injection pressurizing system and its extra high required PSIs. Again the result of these extra tough emission regs etc. Having numerous different drivers and their habits actually really increases this last (the turbo) huge expenditure. Add all that up and it the bill is way way WAY north of 10 grand. So while those who drove it probably LOVED the torque and its ability to pass sportscars on big hills, and passed many a fuel stn, there are prices to be paid for those initial perks.
If I were to try to nutshell what I'm trying to express, it is.. that in the old days diesels were a much freer ride than they are today. This holds true with heavy equipment sized diesels also. There's no hiding anymore..
I really think the best angle is the time saved by not having to go to the gas station every week. A head to head comparo commercial between a TDI and a Prius could be good, just focused on miles on a tank. Then again, lots of us aren't so hot in math and will just see that $4 sign on the pump vs $3.50 for regular.
copy paste - just one example of many parameters that has to be met in order for modern diesels to be allowed to burn their oil in our country. This one below happens to be for a Cruze diesel but you get the idea. While some tech overlaps with gas jobs, you will note some of the ones specific to diesel. Keep in mind too that this example is merely for the tech content that makes 'noises' either before or after shut down. It doesn't even scratch the surface of all the other diesel specific content in the car...just the content that makes a peculiar noise..compared to gassers.
Imagine the complexity (and cost) when some or all of this tech content starts to fail. And the diagnostic cost in the beginning. Assuming you are lucky enough to find a tech with the skills the first time around...or 5th or more tries..
"There are several components that may produce noises, such as squeak, chirp, moan, whine or buzz noises, that may be heard after turning off the engine. The following noises are considered normal operating characteristics of the vehicle. • The Throttle Body/Throttle Valve may be heard cycling or sweeping after the engine is shut down. This may last about 15 seconds and may be heard cycling or sweeping 5–10 times. The throttle body performs a self cleaning followed by an offset learn procedure after the engine is shut off. • The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve may be heard opening and closing after the engine is shut down. This may last about 15 seconds and may be heard about five times. The EGR valve is opening and closing to learn the position offset. • The Intake Manifold Runner Control Valve Actuator may be heard cycling. This may last about five seconds. This is done as an integrity check and to confirm that the mechanical link between the actuator and the intake manifold runner is still connected. • The Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve may be heard making a whining noise. This may last about 15 seconds. The Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve is pressurizing/controlling the flow of the fuel. • The Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Pump and DEF Reverting Valve may be heard from the rear of the vehicle. This may last about 45 seconds. When the vehicle is turned off, the DEF pump and reverting valve operate to relieve the DEF system pressure and to clear the lines of DEF. The reverting valve is opened to relieve the pressure and send the fluid back to the DEF tank, and then the reverting valve is closed once the DEF lines are clear. • The Air Conditioner (A/C) Compressor Electronic Control Valve may be heard making a whining noise. This may last about five minutes. The electronic control valve inside the air conditioner compressor may remain energized after the engine is shut down.
Really? While I am the first to admit, skipping fueling stops is a BIG perk, so is being able to eat that Prius for lunch if your regular habit is driving around heavily loaded or general driving style is aggressive. But like I say...there's a very real potential price to be paid for that joy...and in this example, one that could easily exceed the premium paid for a Prius..
There is no doubt the pleasure driving a diesel vs a gas equivalent comes with a price. That is why I have never encouraged anyone to buy a diesel except for tractors. Where you live and drive are huge factors in what you should buy. If I was so unfortunate as to still be in the workforce. And I had a commute under 50 miles RT, I would buy a Nissan Leaf. Not for anything but my daily driver. If it was my only vehicle I would rent a nice car for trips. Or if not for the hassle of flying these days, fly and rent. When we decided to limit our vacations to road trips, I got antsy to get rid of the gas guzzler. It was bought cash so it did not cost anything but gas. The entertainment was dated when we bought the vehicle in 2007. Should have had SiriusXM in the top of the line Toyota. It did not and the dealer lied about adding it. So many things went into my getting tired of the Sequoia long before we practically gave it to my wife's grand daughter. Who is in love with it for hauling kids and trips to Tahoe.
The only downside to the Touareg TDI I have found is space for stuff. We just have to travel a little lighter is all. The Infotainment center is second to none of the luxury SUV diesels we test drove. It does not have Onstar or whatever MB and BMW offer. Not sure that is as handy as having a smartphone. And unless you make a long haul on mountainous Interstates at 75 MPH using cruise control, you may not appreciate the diesel torque. I cannot imagine the driving dynamics, comfort and quiet being better in any of the other diesel SUV. I can understand why ruking drives his Touareg when he could be getting better mileage in the Jetta TDI. I now look forward to more cross country trips. Before I dreaded them. Looking for new roads across America. No worries about finding a gas station every 300 miles in a gas guzzler. 10,000 mile oil changes and service free from VW. You are right though, it is not cheap like owning an appliance vehicle. If your budget says Hyundai Veracruz, don't be test driving a Touareg TDI. You will be wanting to sell one of the kids.
haha, be better off keeping them, but putting 'em to work..might get a better return in the end.. Altho..that theory worked better back in the days on the farm..
The only downside to the Touareg TDI I have found is space for stuff.
That bugs me too but then I keep reminding myself of my first trip to Alaska in '73 in a VW Bug. The canvas tent went all the way across the front of the back seat and stuff was crammed in every nook and on the roof. But we managed. Did a lot of miles in the Tercel loaded down with canoes on top too.
..."A better question would be how much is required for peaceful pace-maintaining driving in the mountains that ruking does regularly? Same for gagrice when he heads to the hills. "....
Truthfully, I have never operated a natural gas (propane, etc) piece of equipment at anything other than a few feet above sea level. @ that only had had operation experience and responsibility for 2 years. I do know that if one is looking for "TORQUE" (comparison) the natural gas option would not be a first choice. So my guess is at grade climbing and altitude operation , even more torque would be lost and fuel consumption would be higher. As one knows the variation in temperature greatly affects natural gas (more so than diesel, or even RUG/PUG for that matter)
Operations weather has been changing ( colder @ 50 degrees to 19 degrees) and I am running normal tilt after break in of new tires.
The tire shop guru's also recommended 5,000 miles rotation, instead of the normal VW oem 10,000 miles. Wear on that 5k cycle so far is almost not measurable vs a tad more measurable @ 10k cycles. So in effect, good advice. We shall see how many MORE miles per 1/32nd it converts. There is a high bar, in that not so well rated and much more expensive previous tires posted app 14,000 miles per 1/32nd wear. So far, but still TOO new, it looks like 20k per 1/32nd. New tires almost certainly wear faster with more tread and less so closer to bald. !?
The hills, both upgrade/downgrade on different days and times even were almost devoid of traffic. YEE HAW !
In the SOS/DD trip, it posted 31 mpg. The new tires do not seem as fuel efficient (- 1/2 to maybe 1 mpg). It is hard to really tell, given the 4 or so variables all working at once. However, it seems to be living up to its # 1 rating in its application on tire rack.com
The 2007 law for ethanol mandates has been scaled back by the Obama administration. They got at least ONE right ! A coalition of oil folks and lefties (environmentalists ! ?) tag teamed to lobby for its ROLLBACK. Me thinks the corporate and (dwindling) family farmers were probably not in favor. There seems to be ample evidence by all measures that the law has failed miserably and almost on ALL points. It did raise the price per bushel of corn DRAMATICALLY !!! Probably the price of farmland got swept into that equation also. It remains to be seen if they will let the ethanol be diluted enough to give back even BETTER mpg for RUG/PUG users. The 800 # elephant in that legislative room was that ethanol was far more damaging to the environment than even the environmentalists have let on !!!
From what I read the only reason they cut the quota was the gas usage was down and the mandate was not based on gas consumption. Sounds like they have been adding the maximum allowed. Which they never say how much that is. I know the gas pumps around here say up to 10%. I wonder how many times they fudge on that percentage to maintain the mandate? Go up to 12% and hope they don't get sued when it damages engines. I for one will be using a lot less gas from now on.
I think a lot of folks really do not understand that a lot less barrels of oil would be processed ( to meet the total yearly fuel demand of US markets) if the diesel and rug/pug passenger vehicle populations were roughly similar to the refined %'s of RUG/PUG and diesel in a barrel of oil. Obviously the population would not be 95% RUG/PUG and less than 5% ULSD. So defacto greater oil barrel demand is kept by law HIGHER !! So the very same bodies that tell us to consume less are the ones that make and enforce the laws to make us consume more and at higher than necessary prices.
Ethanol can still easily be saved/used. All the legislative and regulatory bodies would have to do is allow the development of engines (and various subsystems) to be able to run up to 100% ethanol !!Of course most folks have a clue that a gal of ethanol gives no were near the mpg of RUG/PUG let alone ULSD.
As you indicate (ECONOMICS x 3) are the key drives ! So in effect, the legislative and regulatory bodies have figured out that (perceived) slightly more taxation (a heap of unseen levels are included) , multiple levels of ongoing vilification campaigns, and an "objective" higher price will keep the population in check (95% gasser to less than 5% diesel). For those intrepid few souls who have run the math, let alone will make the switch, add to that some nice acquisition premiums (again, a heap of unseen levels are included), good to go. Indeed many folks in Europe ( we don't even see it is happening here and it takes LESS monies !!!) have not yet figured out that the INXS of environmental costs play a huge role in continued economic funk a dellics in the EU !
Also almost anything can be converted to ethanol. You know that there is no lack of "RIGHT of WAY" governmental lands (road ways right of way?) on which to grow almost any stock you care to grow (which may or may not involve food stock) as an ethanol product. I mean you have to ask an environmentalist how WEEDS grow so well !!???? Or FORESTS for that matter?
It really depends on who is spinning the tale of ethanol. I wonder how much pollution is put out by the ethanol stills that are now running on coal. Equipment sales are looking up:
Hundreds of New Coal-fired Ethanol Plants Will Create a Huge Equipment Market
The U.S. is following the lead of Brazil and is building hundreds of ethanol plants with the goal of substituting this home grown product for gasoline. While the first plants were built with gas-fired boilers, new plants are likely to use coal-fired steam generators. Some are already operating and others are in construction. The impact of the coal-firing will add billions of dollars in equipment revenues predicts the McIlvaine Company in its World Market for Your Products.
Just the additional capital expense of $18 million for coal-firing per 50 million gallon/yr plant will boost worldwide expenditures in ethanol plants by $2-$10 billion over the next eight years depending on what percentage of the plants select coal. This is in addition to the tens of billions of dollars which will be spent on the balance of the plants.
Yes, NG and propane powered vehicles have significantly less torque, so consequently, FE is down too. A lot actually..I forget but if I were to guess, a good 20% or more. We used to have propane powered vehicles listed in our Natural Resources Annual Fuel Guide. If I wasn't feeling so lazy this morning I could go dig one up as I save them yearly going back to 86 when I first started collecting them. Really handy to see power and drivetrain configs etc. As for FE figures though, they aren't useful like your EPA is. Basically if you take about 20% off the figures, you'll get fairly close though. ( on gas...you could maybe almost double that for their NG/propane figures.)
The multiplier effect would be WAY better if they could export most to all of those products pro ducted: aka balance of payments tilting in the US's favor. Just got to keep Congress from making their petty cash funds LARGER.
In a couple of the north western states, transportation companies such as Fed EX, UPS, etc., etc. run tractor, triple trailers on interstates. I have been long since out of the business to know what weights (INXS of 80,000 lbs) they are allowed to transport.
#1 "I don't need a truck" But!!!!!! - I would buy one today if it could seat 4, post similar mileage to my 2010 Subaru 16-30mpg pending use be it towing or just cruising the highway. However to be honest given the choice of a 2.2L diesel or a 3.0 something diesel I'd opt for the 3L given its a truck not a VW sports wagon.
#2 "Why would I buy?" I get more hauling capability, I could put a FWC camper on it - and I could relive my dreams I had as a kid when that Black SR5 was shown in "Back to the Future" - meaning yes I would want a Manual Transmission and cool looking stuff on the body and interior too!
#3 The midsized trucks that are rumored to be headed our way touch on memories and interests that the huge full sized trucks simply do not illicit. The full sized trucks are not fun, they represent work and challenging parking issues! If I needed the largest hauling capacity I'd already own a full sized pickup! I don't.... I owned a Ranger back in the day really enjoyed it - fun truck but it didn't seat enough butts hence I sold it.
Why don't I own a Tacoma or Frontier today? Simple I have nearly cut a check for one or the other a couple of times in the past 15yrs but it made no sense to pay 25K for a small truck that got equal or worse mileage than a full size and both more or less had more capability than I would ever need. So in one case I bought a cherry old Land Cruiser for $8000 instead - figured I could burn a whole bunch of gas while driving a cool fun truck and still come out ahead regarding cost. No doubt I did sold it for $7000 50,000miles and 6yrs later!
The new midsized truck that really succeeds needs to tap into that Fun for play side that gets good mileage or its simply just a smaller more expensive option to a full size.
I came across this cruze diesel vs jetta tdi range comparison test. Interesting findings. The VW made it 600 plus miles before it ran out of fuel & the Cruze went over 740 miles. Enjoy diesel fans!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
GM unveiled its new 2015 Chevrolet Colorado Pickup Truck at the LA auto show this week. Inside Line reported the possibility of a 2.8L Diesel offering in the Colorado as soon as 2016.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Midsize pickups have not really made sense from a cost or FE standpoint for a long time, though they make perfect sense from a practicality standpoint. A crew cab, short bed compact (er, midsize) pickup is the perfect 1-car family vehicle for all occasions. Give me one with good FE (~23mpg combined) for a reasonable price, and I'm sold.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Took another route ! I took CA 88 E and this days' conditions were literally FIERCELY gorgeous !!! One could see that nature was dangerously afoot, if not careful. This alternate route passes Kirkwood's ski resort, but is literally a journey into the PAST ! It is really is a windy two lane highway ( a lot less 2 lane each way passing lanes). This road peaks @ 8,000 ft. I guess this was the perfect day to use this road, as it was ALMOST just me on the road. It seemed to have snowed over night with 65 mph winds, which seemed to calm down to not more than 45 mph when I was traveling. Sun was wonderful, even as it was app 28 degrees ! Visibility was crystal clear !! The 3.0 L VW Touareg (4,975#'s) TDI posted 30 mpg.
I would like to see a mileage contest between the Cruze and Passat TDI. I think the Passat has upped the ante on mileage. In spite of the fact it is bigger than the Cruze diesel. The Cruze is doing darn well on Fuelly.
Indeed that might be more head to head as Jetta TDI still does not use Ad Blue. Counter intuitively, the Passat TDI's use of Ad Blue allows it to post higher to much higher MPG ??
With the "Impala" s (GASSERS) ALSO posting very high ratings in CR, it would seem to me Chevrolet (GM) would have a one/two HIT combination for it to have a 3.0 L TDI !!
IF the 12 ( my swag is your 13 VW T TDI would post even better) VW T TDI can post 30 mpg, (close to 5,000 #'s) UPGRADE, and according to road signs maxing out @ 8,000 ft and on WINDY mostly 2 lane MOUNTAIN roads and with 4 motion (all wheel drive): THEN me thinks a 3.0 L TDI in the Impala would post BETTER mpg !! ?? 45 mph winds and 25 degrees F with icy and packed snow patches and dodging TREE debris.....
It is good more viable TDI options should come to the market.
We should soon know how well a Chevy would do with a diesel V6. The VM Motori V6 engine was developed for GM in Europe. So far no 2014 Jeep GC diesels posted on Fuelly. There are three 2012s from Australia and the EU. Only getting 21-22 MPG.
Interestingly, I left my name and phone number with two salesmen at the local Carl Burger Jeep dealer. One in April and one in August. Please call when you have a GC diesel for test drive. They show 3 on their website. And no calls from them. The dealers I contacted for both MB and VW were calling me every few days until I bought the Touareg. Chrysler must not be hurting for customers. From the prices on Cars it would seem some of the dealers are adding a big fat premium on their diesels.
From the matchup of the SUV diesels I doubt the GC comes very close to the 27.5 MPG I am averaging over the first 7000 miles. I will give them another look see in 4 years if I decide to trade this one in.
Given the large weight, air drag and drivetrain differences, I suspect that it doesn't need to be as large as a 3.0 litre. A V6 (for more inherent smoothness) around 2.5 litre would probably be more than enough to allow even greater mpg, yet still be somewhat of a rocket. Consider what just 2.1 litres does in the GLK to really put a period behind my thinking. The 3 litre size in the MB and VW T, does seem to be an incredibly sweet spot, but better matched for those much heavier type vehicles I think.
The capability of diesel vs gas never seizes to amaze me.
With a 3.0 L TDI, I am thinking one could go either way ! Almost 1k #'s lighter, would add some serious mpg should one opt to. Out of the mountains, (took the normal way) I pretty much had the downgrade to myself. I had to do a few passes, but pretty much "surfed" the whole way down (little use of brakes) . The (out of the mountains) average was only app 34 mpg, as I did some high desert legs. When I hit sea level, the average had dropped to 31.6 mpg.
A tad off topic, instant start UP after overnight temperatures of 19 degrees. Indeed I didn't even check for glow plug cycles.
What's the compression ratio on that engine? I suspect that thst might be one area that Mazda's new SkyActive (low CR) diesels might be disadvantaged. Given where I live, cold start ability is appreciated, even if when at home I would plug it in anyway. I do with my gas CRV even if it's 25. It's a real fuel/engine saver if plugged in for 60-90 min prior.
"Nissan has already said the next Titan will put out at least 300 hp and 500 lb-ft. The four current ISV commercial ratings cover 200 to 275 hp at 3200 rpm with 520 or 560 lb-ft at 1600 rpm. With better cooling and less stringent emissions regulations, we figure the engine could deliver up to 400 to 450 horsepower in a boat, and it's designed to fit where any big-block does."
I think the key would be the "destroking" of the (monster beneath) underlying V8. Cummins is of course one of the premier AMERICAN diesel building companies. You would not know that by the lack of its' passenger diesels in US markets. Not word one about mpg, but I would swag it can post 30 + mpg. When you combine this with "exhaust" braking, it will be interesting. !
Ah, but it is about miles per tank. You ask one of those guys with a HD PU hauling horse trailers and show trailers cross country about mileage and they will tell you. You can get at least double in a HD PU with diesel over a big gas engine hauling 15k to 25k lbs of horse flesh cross country. And you don't have to stop every couple hundred miles. I talked to a guy hauling horses with a Ram 3500. He gets 10-12 MPG loaded with diesel. A big gasser able to pull that kind of load would be lucky to get 6 MPG. Notice Ford has a bigger 35 gallon tank over the Ram 31 gallon. That won't take you far even with diesel and a load. Will Nissan frame hold up to the added torque. They had some real issues early on with light frames in the Titan.
For over 20 years I have reset my mileage counter to zero when I fill my tank. I watch how many miles as much as I do the fuel gauge. I have had gauges go bad. I know how many miles I can get with a given vehicle +or- a few. It sure is nice knowing you have at least 600 miles range in your tank with the VW. My overall is 26.9 MPG according to Fuelly.com. That gives me a safe 700 mile range. The EPA site also shows gallons per 100 miles. Not many people bother to post on the government site. Fuelly seems to be the place to get mileage information. There are 29 vehicles like my 2013 posted.
You must have been an early metric advocate ! ? I remember getting the information in 5th grade on how to do scientific conversions, so we could be "sophisticated " like.... the Europeans. Well, 51+ plus years later, Silicon Valley, CA is one of the "technical " leaders and we are STILL on the English system ! ? We ought to ask the Hubble scientists how much that conversion error cost the taxpayers?
Way off topic, but I was rolling on the floor when the WSJ had an article, about the "approved" bear proof garbage containers in the Lake Tahoe area. I am glad the BEARS haven't figured out the METRICS of getting in. It must be a SLOW news day. The picture of the BEAR gathering trash had the "SAFEWAY" logo prominently displayed (grocery chain: west coast)
Jim Carlton, PG A6, WSJ Tues, Nov 26, 2013, Incline Village, NV, " First Came the Bears, Then the Fight".
Those of us who are math challenged like metric, at least for linear measurements. Most of my tape measures and rules are "engineer" rules so I can avoid fractions.
The vids of bears on youtube are funny. They all know how to open doors of diesel pickups.
Comments
So if the Rocky I remember is embracing a diesel VW, it's time to go buy a lottery ticket.
He still raves about every new innovation from GM on Facebook. I think he is driving an old Pontiac now.
Looks like Missouri has the cheapest at $3.57 and OK is only 9/10ths more.
Only three states are over $4 a gallon.
I think something that is important for those who try to compare diesel fuel use cost vs gas use, is that they should consider that the driving dynamics of a diesel is a much more rewarding experience. Whenever I read about someone considering a diesel (especially for the first time) and they seem so fixated on mpg vs price of diesel vs price of gas, I maintain that there are two other important considerations. The superior driving dynamics of diesel is a huge perk, but...IMO..and this opinion has been sort of growing in a negative way, I am becoming more concerned with the costs (entry and ongoing) of the level of tech that is now being used in diesel engines in order to meet the ever strict/biased/agenda'd emission regs.
It seems blasphemous in a way..here we have this ICE which can do absolute wonders and all with nary a hint of any electrics whatsoever. Nothing! Zero..zilch..nadda!
So just because we can electrocize the crap of 'em...should we?
Ok, so I admit I have sorta argued both sides of the coin here. If mony is no object..or at least not a first and foremost consideration, then by all means go diesel cuz the driving dynamics are more rewarding than a gas job. If your particular requirements and habits happen to fit in with a modern diesel (no short trips whatsoever) then yes..you'll be impacted le$$ by this new tech and the cost to go diesel has greater potential to balance out, if driving dynamics is taken entirely out of the equation. But if you can afford to not even weigh that as a factor one way or the other, then diesel is the way to go for the rich.
Ironic really...many don't even realize it and pick gas out of ignorance.
Not much. A better question would be how much is required for peaceful pace-maintaining driving in the mountains that ruking does regularly? Same for gagrice when he heads to the hills.
The thing that I'm trying to communicate but am finding difficulty with, is that in some circumstances, a diesel is really the only logical option no matter what the costs (or savings) are. But with that assumption in mind, there is a price to be ultimately paid for that task perfection. The real $ equation just can't be determined in the short-haul. Or at least, not compared to gas jobs. And when I say short-haul, I mean 100k miles. Hell, 200k or even 250k (as in the most recently talked about and anecdotal 09 company (everyone-and-their-driving-habits-drives-it) TDI, is not really enough miles to see what the final tally is. The problem with passionately supportive, pro-diesel stories like this is just that...they are anecdotal stories. Sure...we know that TDI has gone 247k miles and still going strong...but do we really know how many input dollars have been injected into that car to get to the 247k miles? In the real world, that engine could technically have needed 4 or 8 glow plugs, 4 timing belts/water pumps, 4 new fuel injectors, possible cam shaft pressed pulley issues and far more probably turbo issues that may or may not have required a new one if it was found to be sucking oil a little early. Same too with the potential fuel injection pressurizing system and its extra high required PSIs. Again the result of these extra tough emission regs etc. Having numerous different drivers and their habits actually really increases this last (the turbo) huge expenditure. Add all that up and it the bill is way way WAY north of 10 grand. So while those who drove it probably LOVED the torque and its ability to pass sportscars on big hills, and passed many a fuel stn, there are prices to be paid for those initial perks.
If I were to try to nutshell what I'm trying to express, it is.. that in the old days diesels were a much freer ride than they are today. This holds true with heavy equipment sized diesels also. There's no hiding anymore..
Pardon me, I mean those 129.9 vs 120.6 signs.
Imagine the complexity (and cost) when some or all of this tech content starts to fail. And the diagnostic cost in the beginning. Assuming you are lucky enough to find a tech with the skills the first time around...or 5th or more tries..
"There are several components that may produce noises, such as squeak, chirp, moan, whine or buzz noises, that may be heard after turning off the engine. The following noises are considered normal operating characteristics of the vehicle.
• The Throttle Body/Throttle Valve may be heard cycling or sweeping after the engine is shut down. This may last about 15 seconds and may be heard cycling or sweeping 5–10 times. The throttle body performs a self cleaning followed by an offset learn procedure after the engine is shut off.
• The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve may be heard opening and closing after the engine is shut down. This may last about 15 seconds and may be heard about five times. The EGR valve is opening and closing to learn the position offset.
• The Intake Manifold Runner Control Valve Actuator may be heard cycling. This may last about five seconds. This is done as an integrity check and to confirm that the mechanical link between the actuator and the intake manifold runner is still connected.
• The Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve may be heard making a whining noise. This may last about 15 seconds. The Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve is pressurizing/controlling the flow of the fuel.
• The Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Pump and DEF Reverting Valve may be heard from the rear of the vehicle. This may last about 45 seconds. When the vehicle is turned off, the DEF pump and reverting valve operate to relieve the DEF system pressure and to clear the lines of DEF. The reverting valve is opened to relieve the pressure and send the fluid back to the DEF tank, and then the reverting valve is closed once the DEF lines are clear.
• The Air Conditioner (A/C) Compressor Electronic Control Valve may be heard making a whining noise. This may last about five minutes. The electronic control valve inside the air conditioner compressor may remain energized after the engine is shut down.
- Thanks to John Stempnik"
The only downside to the Touareg TDI I have found is space for stuff. We just have to travel a little lighter is all. The Infotainment center is second to none of the luxury SUV diesels we test drove. It does not have Onstar or whatever MB and BMW offer. Not sure that is as handy as having a smartphone. And unless you make a long haul on mountainous Interstates at 75 MPH using cruise control, you may not appreciate the diesel torque. I cannot imagine the driving dynamics, comfort and quiet being better in any of the other diesel SUV. I can understand why ruking drives his Touareg when he could be getting better mileage in the Jetta TDI. I now look forward to more cross country trips. Before I dreaded them. Looking for new roads across America. No worries about finding a gas station every 300 miles in a gas guzzler. 10,000 mile oil changes and service free from VW. You are right though, it is not cheap like owning an appliance vehicle. If your budget says Hyundai Veracruz, don't be test driving a Touareg TDI. You will be wanting to sell one of the kids.
haha, be better off keeping them, but putting 'em to work..might get a better return in the end..
Altho..that theory worked better back in the days on the farm..
That bugs me too but then I keep reminding myself of my first trip to Alaska in '73 in a VW Bug. The canvas tent went all the way across the front of the back seat and stuff was crammed in every nook and on the roof. But we managed. Did a lot of miles in the Tercel loaded down with canoes on top too.
Just don't have a flat.
Truthfully, I have never operated a natural gas (propane, etc) piece of equipment at anything other than a few feet above sea level. @ that only had had operation experience and responsibility for 2 years. I do know that if one is looking for "TORQUE" (comparison) the natural gas option would not be a first choice. So my guess is at grade climbing and altitude operation , even more torque would be lost and fuel consumption would be higher. As one knows the variation in temperature greatly affects natural gas (more so than diesel, or even RUG/PUG for that matter)
Operations weather has been changing ( colder @ 50 degrees to 19 degrees) and I am running normal tilt after break in of new tires.
The tire shop guru's also recommended 5,000 miles rotation, instead of the normal VW oem 10,000 miles. Wear on that 5k cycle so far is almost not measurable vs a tad more measurable @ 10k cycles. So in effect, good advice. We shall see how many MORE miles per 1/32nd it converts. There is a high bar, in that not so well rated and much more expensive previous tires posted app 14,000 miles per 1/32nd wear. So far, but still TOO new, it looks like 20k per 1/32nd. New tires almost certainly wear faster with more tread and less so closer to bald. !?
The hills, both upgrade/downgrade on different days and times even were almost devoid of traffic. YEE HAW !
In the SOS/DD trip, it posted 31 mpg. The new tires do not seem as fuel efficient (- 1/2 to maybe 1 mpg). It is hard to really tell, given the 4 or so variables all working at once. However, it seems to be living up to its # 1 rating in its application on tire rack.com
Ethanol can still easily be saved/used. All the legislative and regulatory bodies would have to do is allow the development of engines (and various subsystems) to be able to run up to 100% ethanol !!Of course most folks have a clue that a gal of ethanol gives no were near the mpg of RUG/PUG let alone ULSD.
What I really want to know is how much diesel it takes to grow a barrel of ethanol.
Also almost anything can be converted to ethanol. You know that there is no lack of "RIGHT of WAY" governmental lands (road ways right of way?) on which to grow almost any stock you care to grow (which may or may not involve food stock) as an ethanol product. I mean you have to ask an environmentalist how WEEDS grow so well !!???? Or FORESTS for that matter?
Hundreds of New Coal-fired Ethanol Plants Will Create a Huge Equipment Market
The U.S. is following the lead of Brazil and is building hundreds of ethanol plants with the goal of substituting this home grown product for gasoline. While the first plants were built with gas-fired boilers, new plants are likely to use coal-fired steam generators. Some are already operating and others are in construction. The impact of the coal-firing will add billions of dollars in equipment revenues predicts the McIlvaine Company in its World Market for Your Products.
Just the additional capital expense of $18 million for coal-firing per 50 million gallon/yr plant will boost worldwide expenditures in ethanol plants by $2-$10 billion over the next eight years depending on what percentage of the plants select coal. This is in addition to the tens of billions of dollars which will be spent on the balance of the plants.
http://www.mcilvainecompany.com/brochures/Alerts_for_Internet/s9%20moni/306%20Hu- ndreds%20of%20New%20Coal-fired%20Ethanol%20Plants%20Will%20Create%20a%20Huge%20E- quipment%20Market.htm
In a couple of the north western states, transportation companies such as Fed EX, UPS, etc., etc. run tractor, triple trailers on interstates. I have been long since out of the business to know what weights (INXS of 80,000 lbs) they are allowed to transport.
( Albeit why my PUNY 225 hp TDI is fine with me)
..."Stock engine computers are tuned to specifically operate a car with the factory setup."...
Funny this is a Honda Ricer Tuner link
#2 "Why would I buy?" I get more hauling capability, I could put a FWC camper on it - and I could relive my dreams I had as a kid when that Black SR5 was shown in "Back to the Future" - meaning yes I would want a Manual Transmission and cool looking stuff on the body and interior too!
#3 The midsized trucks that are rumored to be headed our way touch on memories and interests that the huge full sized trucks simply do not illicit. The full sized trucks are not fun, they represent work and challenging parking issues! If I needed the largest hauling capacity I'd already own a full sized pickup! I don't.... I owned a Ranger back in the day really enjoyed it - fun truck but it didn't seat enough butts hence I sold it.
Why don't I own a Tacoma or Frontier today? Simple I have nearly cut a check for one or the other a couple of times in the past 15yrs but it made no sense to pay 25K for a small truck that got equal or worse mileage than a full size and both more or less had more capability than I would ever need. So in one case I bought a cherry old Land Cruiser for $8000 instead - figured I could burn a whole bunch of gas while driving a cool fun truck and still come out ahead regarding cost. No doubt I did sold it for $7000 50,000miles and 6yrs later!
The new midsized truck that really succeeds needs to tap into that Fun for play side that gets good mileage or its simply just a smaller more expensive option to a full size.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Midsize pickups have not really made sense from a cost or FE standpoint for a long time, though they make perfect sense from a practicality standpoint. A crew cab, short bed compact (er, midsize) pickup is the perfect 1-car family vehicle for all occasions. Give me one with good FE (~23mpg combined) for a reasonable price, and I'm sold.
Given TDI's, they both beat like tank sized (same model only) gassers.
With the "Impala" s (GASSERS) ALSO posting very high ratings in CR, it would seem to me Chevrolet (GM) would have a one/two HIT combination for it to have a 3.0 L TDI !!
IF the 12 ( my swag is your 13 VW T TDI would post even better) VW T TDI can post 30 mpg, (close to 5,000 #'s) UPGRADE, and according to road signs maxing out @ 8,000 ft and on WINDY mostly 2 lane MOUNTAIN roads and with 4 motion (all wheel drive): THEN me thinks a 3.0 L TDI in the Impala would post BETTER mpg !! ?? 45 mph winds and 25 degrees F with icy and packed snow patches and dodging TREE debris.....
It is good more viable TDI options should come to the market.
Interestingly, I left my name and phone number with two salesmen at the local Carl Burger Jeep dealer. One in April and one in August. Please call when you have a GC diesel for test drive. They show 3 on their website. And no calls from them. The dealers I contacted for both MB and VW were calling me every few days until I bought the Touareg. Chrysler must not be hurting for customers. From the prices on Cars it would seem some of the dealers are adding a big fat premium on their diesels.
From the matchup of the SUV diesels I doubt the GC comes very close to the 27.5 MPG I am averaging over the first 7000 miles. I will give them another look see in 4 years if I decide to trade this one in.
The capability of diesel vs gas never seizes to amaze me.
A tad off topic, instant start UP after overnight temperatures of 19 degrees. Indeed I didn't even check for glow plug cycles.
The 5.0-Liter Cummins That Will Power the Next Nissan Titan (Popular Mechanics)
But it is a pickup.
It's going to be hard to break people from just thinking in mpg though.
Way off topic, but I was rolling on the floor when the WSJ had an article, about the "approved" bear proof garbage containers in the Lake Tahoe area. I am glad the BEARS haven't figured out the METRICS of getting in. It must be a SLOW news day. The picture of the BEAR gathering trash had the "SAFEWAY" logo prominently displayed (grocery chain: west coast)
Jim Carlton, PG A6, WSJ Tues, Nov 26, 2013, Incline Village, NV, " First Came the Bears, Then the Fight".
The vids of bears on youtube are funny. They all know how to open doors of diesel pickups.