Question on TSB: Toyota Sienna Door Welds Causing Clicking

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Comments

  • klinklin Member Posts: 54
    Below is my latest status update: Toyota not willing to help!

    Toyota is not standing by its customers and quality! I am a loyal customer with 3 Toyotas, most recently a 2012 Camry Hybrid in Sept 2012. My older Sienna has a minor annoying door noise issue and I asked for Toyota goodwill assistance.Louis Carrillo from Toyota Corporate just gave me a very cold reply that they denied my plead - very disappointed! Probably no Toyota for the next car! Buyer beware!
  • klinklin Member Posts: 54
    I suggest everyone to post their frustrations on "Toyota USA" Facebook site - it will get Toyota attention :)
  • nomoretytnomoretyt Member Posts: 1
    My 2005 Sienna has exactly the same issue. taken to dealer, but was told it is out of warranty. Apparently, this is a very common problem. I also saw videos on youtube showing the exact same problem. I was not sure whether the car is safe to drive with such a front door defect. No more Toyota for me for sure.
  • klinklin Member Posts: 54
    I finally decided to repair the door at a local body shop for only $150 (2-hr job). Hope the repair will last.

    I got quotes from $150 to $3000 - so be aware. I was told by all body shops that this is a very common problems so pervasive on Sienna 2004-2007 (or so).

    Some said this can be a safety hazard if the door problem is severe since the door may fall off.

    Write on Toyota Facebook page and vent your frustrations.
    Hope this info helps.
  • simplifyhopesimplifyhope Member Posts: 1
    2004 Toyota Sienna....I too am infuriated at the unwillingness to repair a known defect! What needs to happen before Toyota repairs THEIR faulty workmanship? Driver door fall off? Driver unable to get out of vehicle? All writings I have read regarding this issue are accurate....$2000 to replace the faulty door or a welder for 150-200$. The welding repair does not stay fixed. I speak from experience! I am so frustrated at this point with the only recourse being to make my voice heard so here is my first stop! Squeaky wheel as the saying goes.
  • stromgolstromgol Member Posts: 1
    Toyota did this repair for FREE. My 2005 Sienna got this problem when it was no longer under warranty. The exact problem is the little black plastified piece of metal in the articulation of the door, more exactly what holds it in place in the door. The function of this little arm is to allow the door to hold its position half opened or completely opened. This failure will not cause the door to fall off like some posters mentionned, since the hinges are not impacted, nor is the door latch.

    How did I get it fixed for free? I have a very bad temper... I am a man and I did a scene, describing real loud their car as being more unreliable than a Government Motor car. I was so loud that the showroom buyers came to see what was happening at the service desk! This is when the owner of the dealership rushed in to ask what was happening (never saw that guy before), they looked into their computer system and then told me that this was covered by a "special warranty" valid forever!

    The above means three things:

    - First, this is what you call a "hidden warranty", used only when a very angry customer (check!) shows up.
    - Second, Toyota knows this is a defect resulting from their manufacturing process.
    - Three, the same will happen to you passenger's door eventually... It is just a matter of opening/closing frequency.

    The repair done was the welding solution in the dealer's body shop, as I understand it they had to dismantle the door and they also had to paint the hinge section since welding will make the paint bubble up.

    Hope this helps.
  • dude1323dude1323 Member Posts: 2
    i am able to provide a simple, inexpensive, "bolt-in solution" to this common problem with the 2005 toyota sienna-- let me know if you would like one... :o)
  • uucowboyuucowboy Member Posts: 1
    dude1323 - does your solution work on a 2004 Sienna?
  • dude1323dude1323 Member Posts: 2
    yes my solution works on this vehicle...i can sell you one with my e-bay account, or i can ship one person-to-person....let me know what you would like to pay for one, and after you see it works, pass the solution along to a fellow sienna owner... :o) these are great vans-- the solution works great, no welding, and it can be done at home... best wishes, dude1323
  • bicyclerbicycler Member Posts: 1
    Dude,
    I'm in need of your solution also. How do I get it?
    What is your ebay address?
  • zontar101zontar101 Member Posts: 2
    I have the same year/model and I seem to recall that Toyota had a recall on the gas shocks that hold the rear door up. I could see in cold weather they might have a problem and whack you with the door.

    See if you can get the dealer to find the recall notice and replace the shocks.
  • imdunnimdunn Member Posts: 1
    I'd be very interested in finding out more about your solution as well, Dude1323 - Please advise as to how to find you on EBay.

    Thanks!
  • rickco1rickco1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2004 Sienna with 160,000 miles on it, and the weld broke. Body shop cost to repair was $430, so I decided to fix it myself. You need a right angle drill (hammer drill), JB Weld, Two Stainless steel Screws with a machine head, and a drill bit the size smaller than the screw. 1, Unbolt the limit bracket on the main door frame. Note how the plate moves. Drill holes in top and bottom with plate pulled close to the door frame. Mixs JB Weld and place a dollop at each "weld point", where your holes are located. Use right angle drill with a Phillips bit to drive in the two screws. Screw the bolt back on the main door opening and you are done! So far it has fixed the problem for a total of about $7.34! Total time 15 minutes, not counting shopping time.
  • komdkomd Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2004 Sienna, and this has just happened to me. I am very interested in your simple, inexpensive, "bolt-in solution." I truly hope I hear back from you.
    Thank you very much.
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    edited August 2013
    My Sienna is a 2008, so no guarantee it is exactly the same as the older Gen-II models that seem so subject to early failure.

    Not the most sophisticated drawing, but after comparing the basic construction of my older Subaru to the Toyota, I'm left scratching my head. Why did Toyota take something so simple and basic as a bolt-on cup, and add an intermediate plate held on with a single spot weld on each side?? An age old bulletproof design compromised by a flimsy piece of sheet metal. More cost, more complexity, and unfit to perform the job long term.

    Hmmm... having problems posting a drawing directly, but the link seems to work.

    http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t456/Fibber2/Toyota%20Repair%20Misc/DoorChec- - k.- jpg
  • mike65401mike65401 Member Posts: 1
    edited September 2013
    My 2005 Sienna had the popping noise and of course Toyota wouldn't do anything about it except offer to fix it for $2000. I searched and found where people had fixed their own so I tried it today and it works perfectly and only took about 3 hours including taking the door off and putting it back on. I spent about $4 to fix it. There are good youtube videos on how to remove the door panel and even remove the door. It is kind of intimidating but I managed to do the whole job with no help, so it isn''t to tough if you have some one to help you. I saw where people either used bolts or screws to reattach the broken plate. I decided to use stainless steel pop rivets and sheet meal screws. The rivets assure that the metal plate won't pull away from the door again, and the screws are there to make sure the rivets don't shear off. I drilled thirteen holes and used about 7 3/16"x1/4" rivets and 6 1/2" x #12 screws. The door works perfectly and I can't imagine that it will ever fail again. See the pix of the fix.

    http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t631/dude65401/siennadoor1_zpsfb8b7d4a.jpg

    http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t631/dude65401/siennadoor2_zps0ade6e9c.jpg

    Tools used were drill with 3/16" bit and one slightly smaller for the screws, a ratchet with 10mm, 12mm sockets and 10mm and 12mm box end wrenches, as well as phillips and regular screw driver. I also had to use some electrical tape to reattach wiring to guides in the door.

    PS - If you have the popping noise, I wouls suggest you at least unfasten the door opening limiter until you get it fixed. Each time the door pops it is doing a little more damage to the plate.

    PPS - Make sure your window is in the up position before you take the door off. Otherwise you couldn't get to the area where you need to work.
  • snuesnue Member Posts: 3
    Yep.. Me too on the door weld. My door was clunking for almost a year-my now ex-husband told me just to use WD 40 in it (ha!). What got me into a body shop was that suddenly it wasn't clunking BUT the driver side door window wouln't go down.The body shop quoted me 350 for the job-I think it took him WAY longer than that amount. Annoying to hear that this is a problemothers have had.
  • average_owneraverage_owner Member Posts: 1
    edited December 2013

    I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My 2004 weld didn't break until 2013. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the dealership on this repair. I've always heard that you shouldn't buy a first-model-year vehicle but it looks like it wouldn't have mattered in the case of the Sienna. I see a lot of the same problem for many years after 2004. We've had plenty of other first-model-year type problems with the Sienna, mainly associated with the doors, all five of them. It may be time to simply trade the vehicle in. I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing with them over this though. Life's too short. I'll just carry my business elsewhere. Nissan is manufactured locally and all the other manufacturers will happy to sell us a car. Besides, the best value is a used car. I can probably get one of those for about twice what one door repair on the Sienna runs.

    Sorry, Toyota.

  • melanieusmelanieus Member Posts: 1

    I just bought a 2006 Sienna, the seller told me there was noise at the driver door which this model has at about 80/90K miles, but it just cost about $300.00 to fix. I believed him so I bought it. but today when I asked a technician to check the door, he said it's door welding defect and will cost about $500.00; since it a welding defect, why Toyota does not do recall? we should ask our attorney to help us, Toyota should take this responsibility! who will be with me to have a try?

  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYMember Posts: 3,786
    edited January 2014

    There we go! They finally upgraded the software to allow easy photo posting. The design (IMHO) is flawed, and relies on a simple spot weld to hold the cup in place. Why not simply bolt it directly to the door as has been done for years quite successfully?

    The failure is expensive and annoying, but unlikely to be life-threatening or vehicle disabling and thus not recall worthy. Best of luck with your lawsuit.

    photo DoorCheck.jpg

  • fdemetzfdemetz Member Posts: 6
    To Subject Sent Size Categories
    'Ask Toyota' RE: Toyota Case #1504281240 [Incident: 150428-000163] 9:52 AM 32 KB
  • fdemetzfdemetz Member Posts: 6
    Dear Mr. Spencer,
    Dear Mr. Spencer
    Thanks for the reply and clarification of Toyota’s unwarranted view of the effectiveness of its “extensive” reliability testing procedures. After researching the many, many reports of the door stop mechanism failures (e.g., see Ref 1 below), it is apparent to me that your 2 year warranty extension beyond your standard 3 year warranty is irrelevant for owners who have experienced the failure, who do not drive over 20,000 miles per year.

    From the many complaints (e.g., see Ref 1), it appears that this design flaw in 592,000 vehicles should be corrected by a full “recall”. Replacement of the door and/or welding may be ineffective, and is not even “required” to fix this problem.

    There are several self-fixes offered on U-Tube which would not require more than 3 man-hours labor, and less than $10 of materials. Toyota Dealers could provide local sub-contractors (body shops and/or repair garages) with a detailed service bulletin such as provided by Ref. 2 to provide this fix for a few hundred $. I think this would be a far better public relations action by Toyota, than their current one which is evidently to just allow the vehicles and/or their 1st owners to simply “die” off.

    Short of that I’m sure that there are many current owners who will never buy another Toyota, and will spread the word to their friends and prospective public domain auto-quality review organizations, dealer BBB ratings services and state licensing departments. A class action suit should also be considered because too many owners of these models of low mileage, well-cared-for vehicles, are out there who have or “will” experience this problem.

    And again, I recommend that Toyota Engineering needs to significantly improve their component reliability testing management and procedures on new designs.

    Regards and Good Luck in your Career,
    Fred C. DeMetz, Sr.

    Ref 1: http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/10450/toyota/sienna/question-on-tsb-toyota-sienna-door-welds-causing-clicking

    Ref 2:
    Mike65401
    http://i1317.photobucket.com/albjms/t631/dude65401/sicnnadoor1_zspfb8b7d4a.jpg
    http://i1317.photobucket.com/albjms/t631/dud65401/siennadoor2_zps0ade6e9c.jpg
    From: Ask Toyota [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 3:07 PM
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: Toyota Case #1504281240 [Incident: 150428-000163]



    Recently you contacted Toyota. Below is a summary of your contact message and our response.

    Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

    Subject
    Re: Toyota Case #1504281240

    Discussion Thread
    Response Via Email (Jay Spencer) 05/01/2015 03:07 PM
    Mr. Demetz,

    Thank you for your follow-up email and your reflections on this specific situation.

    The failure rate for the door check is proprietary information and not something that we would be able to offer. Obviously a trend was seen early on which caused the warranty enhancement to be issued but the actual number of repairs is not available.

    You can be assured that Toyota does extensive testing of all aspects of our vehicles both for safety and longevity. Owner experience and consumer perception also play a role in our ongoing efforts to build the best vehicles. Contacts like yours are integral to this process, because there is no better source than a Toyota owner who takes the time to tell us like it is.

    Thank you again for your honest feedback. It is made available for review by our product planning and engineering teams.

    Respectfully,

    Jay Spencer
    Toyota Customer Experience Center
    Customer By Email (FRED DEMETZ) 04/28/2015 10:00 PM
    Dear Mr. Jay Spencer,

    The other aspect of the referenced Incident, is I’d be interested to know how many similar door failure mechanisms in the 592,000 vehicles during the production run from 2004 to 2007 have been reported?

    If this failure is as common as it appears to be, it means Toyota has not done enough reliability testing on vehicle prototypes. In my area of Southern California I have witnessed the testing of full-scale airline aircraft doors latching mechanisms, repeated thousands of times in facilities which specialize in reliability testing. Has Toyota done this type of testing on the Sienna Doors?

    The reason many people buy Toyotas is their legendary quality and reliability. To build and sell over half a million $40,000 vehicles whose doors will fail “under light usage”, and require an expensive repair, long before the rest of the vehicle goes 100,000 miles, suggests to me that Toyota needs to get some good reliability engineers who know FEA metal fatigue analysis of spot welded panels, and know how to test the design before production.

    Toyota’s adding 2 years or 100,000 miles to the 3 year/36,000mi warranty is nice, but not good enough. Assuming quality automatic welding equipment was used for consistent results, all these doors are doomed to failure, it’s just a matter of reaching the number of cycles until failure. In my case it was about 10 years x 200 days use/year x 10 cycles/day = 20,000 cycles in about 66,000 road miles driven on dry, sunny California freeways.

    Regards,
    Fred C. DeMetz
    Ph.D., Mechanical Engineering

    From: Ask Toyota [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 10:53 AM
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: Toyota Case #1504281240 [Incident: 150428-000163]


    Response Via Email (Jay Spencer) 04/28/2015 10:53 AM
    Mr. Demetz,

    I apologize again for the concern you are experiencing with the front door check on your 2005 Sienna.

    As we discussed, Toyota did issue a customer support program in November 2007 which extended the warranty coverage for the driver's front door check from 3 years or 36,000 miles whichever comes first to 5 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first. The date of first use on your vehicle was November 17, 2005, so the warranty coverage ended on November 17, 2010.

    Please find enclosed a copy of the Technical Service Bulletin that details the suggested repair for the door check if it is not cracked or split.

    Your case is documented at our National Headquarters under file #1504281240. If you have any further questions, please contact us at 800-331-4331. Our hours of operation are 5:00 AM to 6:00 PM Monday through Friday and 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM Saturday, Pacific Time.

    Sincerely,

    Jay Spencer
    Toyota Customer Experience Center

    [---001:003298:02144---]
  • mkarias72mkarias72 Member Posts: 29
    I have this clicking on the driver side. Never knew what it was until I read this post. So Toyota will not fix this? I have a 2005 Sienna so any warranty would be expired by now. Is this a minor issue meaning its just a clicking sound or will the door fail to open/close? What is the cost to fix this? Thanks.
  • halschlehalschle Member Posts: 1
    Amen to Fred C. DeMetz. Our Siena has been in sunny Atlanta, no road salt and this problem occurred shortly after 100,000 miles. My dealer said 'it's out of warranty.' How can I support Toyota when they know they did poor welding and we have to accept this. How do I find someone at Toyota that cares about current owners promoting (or not) their vehicles.........
  • hadilat37hadilat37 Member Posts: 1
    I am the first owner of a 2004 Sienna LE AWD. The driver side door check has been making clicky noises for a while. When I read some of the comments on this forum, I decided to call the Toyota Customer Experience. The rep said that there is no recall (contrary to a couple of comments on this forum) on the door check issues and all she could offer was to document my my issue and give me a case number.

    Another issue I have experienced, which I would consider a true safety issue is the Vehicle Skid Control mechanism engages in turns and on winding road (even lightly winding), This has caused many scares for me. The review of the logfile by the Toyota certified mechanic didn't reveal anything, i should also mention that my can has never been in any accident/impact situation.

    The only way Toyota would pay any attention to this matter is if the owners who are experiencing these issue call them to express their concerns.
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