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Comments
In one sense they do that because if you get a chance to really think what you are doing (spending $30K on a hunk of metal that loses value) you will never buy. Better to sell you before the emotional glow wears off. There is also a truism that you always buy at the last place you shop. A salesman who knows this doesn't want to let you go only to have you buy at the next place.
I don't sell cars and my products are a tiny fraction of the cost of their's but I see many of the same behaviors in my customers that the sales folks describe. People who grind on the price, people who can't make up their mind and people who really never intended to buy anything but just want to waste your time are common in any sales environment.
The salesman's motto has to be ABC (Always Be Closing) because they know that "I'll be back" or "I'll think about it" usually means "Screw You!"
I know that isn't what you want to hear. I myself am one who is a cautious buyer but experience has taught the sales professional to "Close Today or Send Away".
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I made 3 visits before I bought my wife's PT Crusier. I guess that makes me "high end" Thanks.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You can't compare the LR3 to the Land Cruiser, but you can compare the LC to the RR.
I don't think pointing out that the deck is stacked is the same as whining about it.
I am just saying, that until my most recent visit to this dealership, my last several purchases from dealers have been good experiences. I did get the wool pulled over my eyes once or twice when I was in my 20s, but nothing terrible.
My last 4 new car purchases, and my last used car purchase were all good experiences.
I used to subscribe to Car and Driver, and I am familar with Road and Track, Autoweek, not to mention all the online sources. But the cars that they test really bear no resemblance to what I need in my car. I think it more of a fantasy thing for teenage boys and young men who want to see $200,000 Ferraris tested over and over again. And I don't think they test many Land Rovers, but that is beside the point.
By the way, I think they are really just glossy auto pornography. It's like reading Money magazine or something and then buying the mutual funds they recommend, which, by golly, just happen to advertise in their magazine! They may be decent funds, but even if they were pretty lousy, they would get mentioned because the magazine needs the ad revenue.
Those car magazines totally skip over the problems that certain makes have. They just never mention it. Maybe after six or seven years they make a casual reference to Chrysler having problems with it's transmissions, but for years they've been testing the cars and never mentioned it.
Consumer Reports accepts no advertising. It's reports are short and to the point.
Maybe instead of saying they lacked common sense, I should have said they have more money than they know what to do with.
The value of the product is determined by what the customer is willing to pay and what the dealer is willing to accept. It is not a unilateral declaration by one party or the other.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Now one could argue that some buyers will not be playing in the mud with their RRs,--okay, point taken--- but that doesn't allow us to denigrate a highly competent off road vehicle that has no peers in the ditch.
That seems like pretty rough terrain.
And yes, point taken, no one in the Hamptons is off roading.
OK, I am going away now...........maybe never to come back!
Actually the value of any product be it a car or a widget are the features and benefits that make it fit the wants and needs of the consumer. A bb gun has no value if you are bear hunting, but you will pay more for a product that fits your needs. Pricing is another issue entirely and I agree with your definition of that.
How so? You have the ability to leave and buy from many other sources. You're in control.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
And they are old Toyotas and LCs - back when then had more of that capability and they were cheaper. Also, Toyota produces more cars in a week than we do in a year. Why do you think that many military organizations use Defenders? Capability.
no one in the Hamptons is off roading.
I'll bet there are more people in the Hamptons who do off road or trail (and go to remote places to hunt, fish and camp) than you realize
http://www.cars.com/go/compare/modelCompare.jsp?myids=11180,11016,8782,8514
The toyota/lexus twins were more reliable. A Land Cruiser/LX470 probably broke down two times over the course of three years compared to three or four times for the Range Rover. Sure from a percentage standpoint it is a lot more but both cars are incredibly reliable compared to cars from 20 years ago.
The new 2010 Land Cruiser/LX470 is a much, much better car but it should be considering it was redesigned for the first time since 1998 in 2007/2008. The Range Rover was all new in 2002/2003 and has had two major refreshes, one in 2006 and the other for 2010, while the Land Cruiser was just about unchanged for those 10 years. It now matches the Range rover for power but is still using a much larger engine to do it. There is plenty of other technology that it is still missing when compared to the Range Rover. Its still Body on Frame instead of unibody construction. A body on frame design is not as safe as unibody and it is more prone to creaks and rattles plus it won't be as stiff so it won't handle as well. The Range Rover chassis is so stiff it has a torsional rigidity of 36,000, that number is from memory I might be off a bit, newton-meters for one degree of flex. That number has also probably increased because I think I am remembering it from before the first refresh in 2006.
Oh and the Cruiser jumped in price by about 10,000 dollars for the new model too. The new LX570 is actually about the same price as the Range Rover for 2010 $76,000 vs $79,000
Oh and guess what the Range Rover out sells the LX470/Land Cruiser by a health margin too. Land Rover typically sells 12,000-15,000 Range Rovers a year in the US.
http://media.ford.com/pdf/August07sales.pdf
People in that price range want choices and they want a little cachet maybe a little snob appeal. A vehicle that was once displayed at the Louvre as an example of modern art has that while a Toyota doesn't.
They want a dozen different interior color choices with three different kinds of wood and ten exterior color choices for hundreds of possible combination's. The LX470 has two interior leathers tan or gray and two different woods with only seven different exterior colors
http://www.channel4.com/4car/100-greatest/classics/land-rover-range-rover.html
All that heritage and history is worth something and they do a good job marketing that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CspNzfCbmRI&feature=PlayList&p=1996F62605F5046A&i- - ndex=3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vCwIhExyq4&feature=PlayList&p=1996F62605F5046A&i- - ndex=18
Now obviously most people aren't going to do all that but they could. The vehicle has the capability and their local Land Rover dealership will show them how. They can take their own vehicle on driving events or go on one of the Land Rover corporate sponsored trips to South Africa or Iceland.
Toyota sells about half that of the LX470/Land Cruiser
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/09/04/060895.html
Those are old data sheets yes but new car sales over the past 18 months aren't really representative of a normal market.
Of course the real vehicle you should compare the Land Cruiser too is the LR3/LR4. The LR4 is closer in size, actually a little smaller but with more passenger space, closer in price seats 7 like the LC and is a bit more utility oriented. I sold quite a few LR3s to people cross shopping with the LC as they thought it was a better value. Less money for more equipment a nicer ride and equal or better warranty when you factor in the maintenance plan that Land Rover offered at the time.
Pilot has more compartments for stuff while 4Runner has a really nice First Aid Kit.
You decide based on that like I did and you'll be a happy camper.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
You did say there that the odds are stacked against me. I guess your point is that I could leave at any time.
I was really trying to find out if I was being rushed, mislead about loans, and pushed to use the dealers financing.
Maybe I should get that Suzuki XL7, or a Mazda RX7.
And some people seem to see no value in what an average consumer might be thinking.
I really thought it was good, and I learned somethings about how dealerships operate. But other than maybe Boomchek, who thanked me for my honesty and for sharing. I don't think too many people appreciated my posts.
And to be perfectly honest, I think it was in this forum that someone told me I should go out and drive the vehicles I was interested in in order to narrow down my choices.
I had actually narrowed them down a long time ago, I had it down to three. Now it seems like an attitude on the part of some people that if you test drive a car and don't buy it on the spot, you are wasting their time and "buyers are liars".
No one has actually ever told me if this "come back and pay us when you get the money" spot delivery mentioned by the salesman was unethical if he never explained to me that I would be signing for two loans.
No one ever explained if "IN STOCK VEHICLES DELIVERY WITHIN 48 HOURS" is a legitimate way to do business. It seems to me that most people are going to need at least 3-4 days to set up their financing. And I seem to remember most dealers giving the buyer 5-7 days, in writing, to pick it up.
No one ever explained to me if the finance guy is reading, or pretending to be reading, off a list of interest rates, and his rates are more than two points higher than I can get on my own, is that an acceptable mark up for the interest rates.
I just wanted to know if anyone had an opinion as to whether this was a dealership that THEY wanted to do business with. I don't think any customer wants to feel like the fatted cow waiting to be slaughtered.
Anyway, here's a good laugh. The car was on the dealers website right through Saturday. They never took it off even after I had the deposit on it Wed. afternoon. Then, on Sunday, it was gone. It's hasn't reappeared. I was wondering whether they were late taking it off after I put a deposit, or, more likely they sold it late Saturday or Sunday morning. This evening I'm going to my son's soccer game. I get about three blocks from my house, and I see THE car. It has to be the same one, because the paint is like new. It looks like it was just detailed. And I only live three miles from the dealer. Now I hope that whoever bought it doesn't live three blocks from me because I will have to see the car four times a day as I drop my son at school and pick him up.
So now I have non-buyers remorse.
I will probably do something totally irrational now and buy a Range Rover. And yes, I will buy it from British Rover.
I'm in Racine, Wisconsin
Please let me know.
Thanks!!
I'm in Racine, Wisconsin.
Please advise.
Thanks!!
I have no freakin' idea! Go with the Dodge, and insist on free floor mats!
I would suggest the forum for Honda Civic, prices paid.
You guys see now? People want to ask ME questions. I'm like Ralph Nader or something.
Vag-Whatever you do, watch out for the finance guy!
Oh please! Spare me the "poor customer" song. That might have been true pre-Internet days, but now there is no excuse for a customer to be as prepare, if not more, than the salesman.
If a customer is not prepared, he deserves to be clubbed like a baby seal.
Huh? How can you be asking why people buy luxury cars and then say that we're not talking about driving experience? :confuse:
At a completely different price point (since I don't have money for a Range Rover), but I bought a top of the line Passat Wagon 4Motion. I could've gotten a Japanese car, but they weren't fun to drive. The Passat has had small issues (covered under warranty and I have an excellent dealership), but overall I've enjoyed the ownership of it a lot more than I would've a Japanese cars.
The driving experience *is* what I'm talking about.
The Driving Experience? That's even a "rational" choice, because it is an actual experience, not a concept.
Don't forget snowy driveways to their winter cabins.
Everyone has an opinion, but your's is not in the majority.....
The last two, no wait the last 3 cars I bought over the last 10 years, I have been in and out of the dealership within 4 hrs, new car in hand. Well new car on the road. Signed for, financed, paperwork done and gas in the tank. My S-10 was probably the longest since I had to drive it to work (with the salesman) to show my wife. Went back and closed a deal. Made it back to work before closing time to show it off to my buddies at work. At the beginning of the day I hadn't even planned on buying a vehicle, but had been planning on repairing my then current one, another S-10.
Went I bought the S-10 I was driving past the dealership with a new fuel pump for my old S-10 and saw an ad on their marquee advertising an S-10. I drove in, looked around and ended up buying. Did I get a good deal?? I think so because I had a busted vehicle sitting at home that I really didn't want to repair and I was already dumping a car payment's worth a month into keeping it on the road. I feel I came out with a good deal because the payment were what I could afford with the vehicle that I really liked (and it only took a few minutes to find). Granted, I already new I liked the S-10 so finding one I liked wasn't a problem. I also knew that I didn't like any of the other small trucks at the time (Tacoma, Frontier, Ranger - the like). I also knew what options I "needed" and what options I could do without. I just so happened to find a vehicle that fit well enough into what I was looking for and I was flexible enough with what it didn't have that I have been able to really enjoy the vehicle, which I still own, 100K miles and almost 7 years later.
The Impala we bought about 5 years ago to replace our 10 year old Taurus. This was sort of not planned for however, I had actually been researching Impalas and had been into a couple dealerships to check them out already and again at the time, I wasn't really interested in any "competitors". The Accord and Camry were too small and Ford didn't have anything that interested me at the time. So when we went into the dealership to look again, we ended up finding an Impala that we liked and could afford and a couple hours drove off with it. Financing taken care of, old vehicle traded in and we drove home in the new one. We didn't have to wait several days or weeks to get the car. I will admit that I had already kicked the tires of a few Impalas at other dealerships so maybe I wasted their time a bit, but they didn't pressure me to buy TODAY after I told them I was just looking. Also when we were in the process of kicking tires that one last time, we may not have bought if the salesman hadn't asked and steered us towards buying TODAY. Do I think that was sleazy? Not really. Do I regret buying that car that day?? Not really. It has been a great car for us and we are still driving it. Could we have gotten a better deal somewhere else or a better car? Probably, but I am not going to shed tears or tear myself up about it. The car we bought is a really GOOD car and has had no problems, is comfortable, gets good gas mileage, is safe, makes a good road trip car. All the things a car is supposed to do. I have been happy with it.
The last vehicle I bought was a work van. Again, sort of unplanned for, but not really. This had also been a work in process and I had kicked the tires of a couple work vans, but hadn't found one that suited my needs yet. One day I drove by a dealership that had several vans that looked like they might fit my needs. I stopped by, looked at several, picked one that I liked (the only blue one, the rest were white), drove it around and then made a deal. Drove off not even 2 hours after stopping in. Again, while I hadn't done a HUGE amount of research, I knew what I needed and what I wanted, found it, bought and didn't really look back. It too has been a positive ownership experience.
All 3 vehicles were bought from 3 different dealers in 2 different states. All 3 purchases were fairly smooth and I was treated with respect every step of the way. I didn't need 3 or 4 days to set up financing (one call to a bank and I was set) or 5-7 days to pick up the vehicle. On the last purchase I had a buddy come down and drive home one of my vehicles since I just did a straight purchase and not a trade. (the S-10 was also a trade, but the trade was dead in my driveway at home and the dealer picked it up a few days later). I was basically in and out. I don't see why most car purchases can't be this way.
(As a side note - I guess I should say that while it seems like I didn't do a HUGE amount of research, I did know enough about the cars I was purchasing to know whether or not I was getting a "fair" price and I was already pretty much set on what vehicle I was going to get. When I bought the S-10, I had already known that when my then current S-10 needed to be replaced, it was going to be with another S-10. The same for the Impala. I had already pretty much decided to get an Impala when the time came. And for the Astro work van, again it was really the only vehicle at the time that I knew would fit my needs and budget and keep my operating costs down. So while I didn't walk into the dealerships "blind" and I wasn't "really" planning on buying, I did buy because I knew what I wanted and the salesman did his job and made a deal work for me.)
As I said, my last my last several purchases have been straightforward and trouble free. Which brings me to my questions about this dealership and their practices. If they had dealt with me in a straightforward manner, I believe that 4Runner would be sitting in my driveway this morning.
All I was looking for here was some feedback from people that sold cars as to whether or not these practices of bumping the interest rate more than two points, pushing for delivery within two days, and failing to explain that spot delivery included an additional loan, were legitimate business practices.
I was also put off because the dealerships rating on dealerrater.com is an abysmal 1.4. The second review on dealerrater.com mentions my salesman by name, and while as said, personally, I like the kid, he is worker, it is hard to ignore the horror story of someone who claims he tried to lease them a 5spd.base Camry with an MSRP if under 21K, based on a price of $28K. Is it a true story? I have no idea, but it's enough, combined with the rushed delivery and the finance guys tactics to make me sit back and take a deep breath. I am in no hurry, and I won't be victimized/exploited.
Nice. I suspect that this what some dealers do to the elderly in Florida, who don't use the internet, immigrants and young adults buying for the first time, etc. etc.
Don't flame me, he said it, I didn't.
The Range Rovers in the Hamptons are on Main St. The only thing I ever saw on the beach was a fisherman in a Blazer.
The 2002 Pontiac van was the Montana. Grand Voyager was a Plymouth last made in 2000. Which did you buy?
No matter, a 2002 van in excellent shape for $3200 sounds like a pretty good deal.
Did it come with any warranty?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
And gotahavit-- you did a really good job.A good condition van with 82k miles for 3200 is a very very good deal.Enjoy your van.The Pontiac Voyager is a decent van especially for the price you got it for.Just keep up with regular maintenance though.
And as LR guy said,make a quick decision before it gets sold.At that price it wont stay long. :shades:
Glad you are talking to me again!
No flames here. Two words -- Caveat emptor. If they didn't do their homework, they deserve it. Like the salespeople here have mentioned, the customer is in control. He/she can walk away at any time.
Yeah, it's the law in NY. Basic powertrain warranty 30days/3000 miles I believe.
Not too many vehicles sell for $3200 here except private party.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
No baby seals here, I walked.
But is it a Plymouth or a Pontiac? Good job on the warranty, you may be blonde but you're not dumb.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible