Back in college I worked at a local car wash. The water used to wash the cars drained down into a settling pit where the crud sank to the bottom before the water was reused to wash the next car. The problem with salt was that much of it dissolved into the water and soon your were washing and rinsing the cars with a salt brine. That may explain some of the rust.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks Chuck. I'm here cause I'm smart, not gorgeous (said with a NY Judge Judy accent) Glad it worked out. Before putting a deposit down on your next purchase, make sure you like it 100%. OR better yet, put a deposit on it, but write in a clause with "subject to ___________ (whatever) so you have some sort of a way out if you're not sure but want to hold the vehicle a day or two.
I think at the $3500 level, it's just got to be a decent car that runs well, stops and can pass inspection. She obviously likes it. I doubt she'll own it for more than 3 years.
It's almost like the sales people/dealers speak a different language.
The buyer says "I want to step back and think about this deal", and they hear "I want free floor mats", or something.
I learned to take what people say as truth, unless I see otherwise, I assume that what they are telling me is true. You can drive yourself crazy trying to interpret and "read" situations.
1. Are there two tiers of dealerships, the build a relationship, get word of mouth referrals, make the customer happy type (maybe family owned)?
And the maximize profit on each deal 'cause we're never gonna see this sucker again anyway type (high volume dealers?)?
2. I would really like to know how they train the salespeople these days. Does it depend on the type of dealership, or do they all train pretty much the same? Is there still a lot of pressure to "move iron" or whatever it's called. Is it still similar to that Edmunds article "Confessions of Car Salesman"?
1. preowned 4Runner, a CPO would have 7yrs/100K on the powertrain, but only 3 mos./3000 mi. on the rest of the car. It is also difficult to find one with leather.
2. preowned Piot, CPO would have 7yrs/100K on the powertrain, and Honda has the best CPO program, 1yr/12K bumper to bumper. They are also easy to find with leather and about a grand cheaper than the 4Runner.
3. A new CRV. I could get a new car with leather, heated seats, sunroof, etc. for the same 26K or so I would spend on the Pilot/4Runner. Obviously it would have 3yrs/36K bumper to bumper, and whatever the powertrain warranty is, I think it's 5 yrs/ 60K.
I know, I know, you're all gonna tell me buy what I like. Make up your mind, Chuck. You're gonna have to test drive them and see, blah, blah, blah. But I'd really like to hear what each of you car buffs would buy in a similar situation.
Gas mileage is not too much of a consideration to me right now. I drive very little now and gas is relatively cheap (for now), but I might drive more in the future if I look for a job, and obviously gas could spike back up to $4. I don't plan on using this car for long trips, but I like the option of being able to use it for trips, so if gas does go back to $4, I'm kind of screwed with the 4Runner, and a little less so with the Pilot.
Safety is a big concern. I like to feel safe, and my younger son is coming up on licensing age and would probably borrow the car.
I am trying to weigh the size, safety, heavy ride of the Pilot/4Runner against the new car reliability and warranty of the CRV.
I know there other possibilities, like a new Cherokee for not much more, or a new Liberty for the same price, but I really want something that is very, very reliable and holds it's value well.
you trying for most prolific poster of the day award or something?
anyway, although really not the right forum, but try tehem all. the CRV is smaller and much less powerful (might be hard going from a big 6 or V8 to a 4 banger).
THat, and do you have any need for serious trailbanging off road use, or towing? If not, the 4 runner is probably overkill.
and, if you have any need for 7 passenger seating, the pilot is the better option.
Me? Of those 3, I would get a pilot. But I am not you!
I am just trying to keep you guys off the streets, and out of our nations playgrounds. Plus, ACORN pays me 100K a year to get better deals on cars for poor people!
I have no need for towing.
I don't really go off road, but I like the option of being able to ride on the beach once or twice a year.
I have no need for 8 passenger seating. I really don't even want it. All it means is that when my parents visit I will have to drive them and my mother in law and everyone when we go for dinner.
I know the Pilot is much bigger than I need. 90% of the time it will only be one or two people in the car.
I like trucks, but the warranty on the CRV tempts me. I guess a CPO Pilot is the middle ground here, bigger than a CRV, but with a decent warranty. But I don't think the Honda AWD system can handle the beach.
And the maximize profit on each deal 'cause we're never gonna see this sucker again anyway type (high volume dealers?)?
All dealers are this way.
I would really like to know how they train the salespeople these days. Does it depend on the type of dealership, or do they all train pretty much the same?
All dealers are the same.
Is there still a lot of pressure to "move iron" or whatever it's called. Is it still similar to that Edmunds article "Confessions of Car Salesman"?
Identical to the Edmunds' article.
By the way, I think Jmonroe and ChuckfromLI should have their own special forum to post in. I think I might get as much amusement out of that as the Dodge Stealth guy....
Oh, c'mon moo... that guy was a nutcase - combative & delusional, all rollled into one package. Chuck is just humorous - I think he's FUN, and it's nice to have a consumer here who's being honest and at least realizes that dealerships are a for-profit enterprise.
Chuck, welcome. I've been enjoying your posts.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
A new CRV. I could get a new car with leather, heated seats
Gas mileage is not too much of a consideration to me right now.
Safety is a big concern. I like to feel safe,
I know there other possibilities, like a new Cherokee for not much more,
Man, you gotta stop torturing yourself about this and make a decision. How could anyone here possibly help you when you are all over the lot, literally.
My only suggestion is to not put money on another car again and then find a reason to back out of the deal. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Now you all know what we go thru in qualifying a customer. Chuck is the dreaded stock drive (nothing personal Chuck) - the customer who comes in and wants to demo every car on the lot. Then cannot make up his mind. If he does, you pray the car goes over the curb so you do not wind up taking a car (a valuable asset) off the market only to put it back on a week later. That is exactly why we only take non refundable deposits.
I can get you a bedroom for $150,000 right here in California.....oh, wait, you wanted a whole house for that....no, sorry, not here. How about a garage?
Chuck, I think you are over-thinking the problem. You need to become irrational. Just buy something you like because you like it. Of course, don't pay more than it's worth, but there is NO PERFECT CAR out there. Impossible. I've owned more cars than most people have dishes in their kitchen, and I never found the perfect car.
Like any business a car dealership wants to maximize profits. Some dealers do it differently than others. Training is different based on dealership and product.
A new CRV. I could get a new car with leather, heated seats
Gas mileage is not too much of a consideration to me right now.
Safety is a big concern. I like to feel safe,
I know there other possibilities, like a new Cherokee for not much more, or maybe a Liberty
counts as all over the lot. You also mentioned that you were falling in love more and more every day with your current Pathfinder......
I'm glad you like to feel safe. I'm sure you would get that feeling in any of the 6 vehicles that you are currently interested. My advice is to put deposits down on all 6 and then back out of all 6. Find which dealer doesn't make you feel weird, doesn't give you the impression that they want you to purchase the vehicle and then purchase from them.
But what I was intersted in is HOW they go about maximizing profits.
Interesting note, the salesman at the Toyota place where I put my D.P. was the same "kid" who sold me my TV as Circuit City a few years ago. I knew that I knew him from somewhere. And the reason I bought the TV at Circuit City, from him, is because he was helpful, very energetic, and when I asked about delivery he told me he would deliver it that night around 9 PM on his meal hour! He said his friend had a van and they do this all the time. Delivery and set up was something like $75. So, this "kid" literally SOLD me the TV. He made the deal happen.
BTW-I had visited a Best Buy where the 19 year old clerk gave me information about cables that conflicted with other things I had heard, and told me I would need $300 worth of cables to make the TV work (wrong!).
I also visited a PC Richard. The middle aged salesmen had no idea how to hook up the TV, and didn't seem to care. Their packages were something like, delivery $50, delivery and plug in $75, delivery and mount on wall $150. When I told them I wanted something in the middle, no wall mounting, but hooked up to the cable box and a Bose system, they didn't know what to say. They couldn't think outside the box.
BTW-That was for a $1000 TV, not a $25,000 car. And no one complained that I came into the store and watched their TVs for free or asked them questions.
Looking for woman half my age. Must love grilling, Becks beer, working out, swimming, drinking coffee, travel, and occasional four wheeling on the beach. Must have Toyota 4Runner LIMITED model, preferably in white.
I was using your indecision as an example of people who come to the dealer to experiment rather than do it in a forum. If you knew the business you would know that those of us like madman and myself that sell high end high dollar deal with informed customers that do take the time to do due diligence. Afterall, in many cases they are spending from $80-$100+k. But if you wish to generalize go ahead. Does that mean we do not wish to maximize profits? Of course not. Do we treat customers honestly. Of course. That is why half of my business is repeat and referral. Do they tie up an asset if they are not sure if they like it. No.
Just like selling in any business - find out the customers wants and needs and fill them. Maximize profit by showing them the value of the product, the dealership and the salesperson. Nothing different than when I sold in the corporate world.
Chuck, I have a very very strong feeling that you'll buy none of those, and somethng completely and totally different. I can almost bet some money on that. :shades:
I've seen it happen many times where a customer has narrowed down to a few vehicles and they get totally wrapped up in trying to make a decision, and BAM! they just buy something totally different that wasn't even on their radar.
All dealers will try to maximize profit on every single deal, because that's the nature of the business. All dealers strive for a high repeart and referral base too as that's what typically results in lower advertising costs and higher grosses.
As for training, all salespeople are trained to close the deal today, whether on a new customer or on a repeat customer. Even repeat customers will buy elsewhere if something rubs them the wrong way that day.
Every customer and every deal = close now, and maximize gross. No different than any other business.
Are you saying that no one who has come into your dealership has put a down payment and then changed their mind? I find this very hard to believe.
As far as due diligence, I suspect that most of the people buying these vehicle are too busy with their business/practice to really do much research into vehicles. I tend to think they buy whatever strikes them at the moment. And yes, you are probably right that being treated failry is of utmost importance to them.
I would generalize that someone who buys a LR over a Land Cruiser or a Sequia is the same as someone who buys a MB over a Lexus, more money than common sense. No one in their right mind would spend a ton of money for a vehicle with subpar reliability and annoying electrical problems.
Due diligence, I think not.
There sometimes seems to be a direct inverse correlation between education and common sense, a.k.a. "street smarts". Just ask Bernie Madoff.
Thank you. I really did not have a business career, or go to business school. I was a civil servant.
But why not keep rubbing them the right way, even if takes a few days?
There is no other business that seeks to exploit the consumer in what is an akward moment for them. They are at their most vulnerable, making the second biggest purchase in their life, and the dealers emphasis is "close the deal now"
I could go to buy a pair of pants, a towel, a mattress, a watch, jewelry, whatever, and the salesperson puts little or no stress on me to "buy now!"
I suspect that most of the people buying these vehicle are too busy with their business/practice to really do much research into vehicles. I tend to think they buy whatever strikes them at the moment. And yes, you are probably right that being treated failry is of utmost importance to them.
I would generalize that someone who buys a LR over a Land Cruiser or a Sequia is the same as someone who buys a MB over a Lexus, more money than common sense. No one in their right mind would spend a ton of money for a vehicle with subpar reliability and annoying electrical problems.
Due diligence, I think not.
There sometimes seems to be a direct inverse correlation between education and common sense, a.k.a. "street smarts". Just ask Bernie Madoff.
I did have hope for you but it is obvious that: a. You do not know a high end customer b. You do not know the engineering or driving expirience of a European vehicle c. You are here just to dish dealers. Goodbye
"No one in their right mind would spend a ton of money for a vehicle with subpar reliability and annoying electrical problems"
That's called the "rich people are stupid" theory and it really doesn't hold much water IMO.
High end buyers are purchasing a driving experience that the lower priced car cannot deliver, as well as the status that the lower priced car cannot match. These are not by any means insane motives.
If reliability ratings were the only thing people looked at, the sales figures would reflect a direct correlation. But they don't. Cars are emotional and social buys, too---not merely pragmatic purchases IMO.
How much plywood can you carry in a Porsche after all?
Yup if reliablity mattered as much as people think then Jaguar and Buick would be outselling BMW and Mercedes. They would have been outselling them for years too as Jag has been in great shape for a good long while.
There is no other business that seeks to exploit the consumer in what is an akward moment for them. They are at their most vulnerable, making the second biggest purchase in their life, and the dealers emphasis is "close the deal now"
You as a customer chose to come into my dealership.
Unless you sign, and you take delivery, we do not make a penny.
You are in control all the time, because it is you that's buying and you that's holding the money. Without your money we cannot exist.
Not only can you walk away but you can go to a hundred other competitors within a 100 mile radius and buy there.
How is a dealer exploiting a customer when it's the customer that's in charge all the time?
Just had the oil changed on my jeep at a dealership 20 miles from home. The sent out free service coupons to generate contacts with some local chrysler closings. The service advisor was friendly and professional. Never tried to upsell me on stuff. While waiting walked the lot and observed the staff. Four very young men sitting in golf carts / cell phones / laughing /smoking. They were soon joined by a strutting man in his late thirties - black pants/red button down shirt /name tag with sunglasses on his head. He joined in. Had I drove there to look at cars, I would have left without getting out of my car which would have been a mistake because inside there were two knowledgeable sales pros working the phones. I eavesdropped on one and after he hung up- chatted a bit and took his card. Maybe someone can explain the dealership's strategy on what I saw.
The average person buys a car from a dealer maybe every 3,4,5,6,7 years. So they go through this process seven, eight, maybe ten times in their life. They are pitted against a salesperson who is trained in all sorts of clever ways to maximize the profit, some obvious and some not so obvious, and to appeal to the buyers emotion to, as YOU GUYS put it, "close the deal today/now". To the average consumer this like saying, "I work out a couple of times a week, and I took karate thirty years ago, so now I'll enter an Ultimate Fighting Champioship or a professional boxing match". The odds are stacked against the consumer in a battles of wills, knowledge and techniques, as much as the dealer wants to stack the odds. Some may be nice guys who's profit is all in the price of the car and is visible, some may be a little shadier and attempt to have a consumer take out two loans without ever explaining that that's how they are doing a "spot delivery".
In a perfect world, no one would make this decision without spending a few dozen hours on line, visiting at least three or four dealerships, and driving at least three or four models. A rational decision would take about two weeks, to make. But this isn't a perfect world and people have to work, their kids have activities, their parents are have problems, whatever. There is often not enough time to see the process through in a rational manner.
But you guys know this, and don't really want anyone to take this amount of time. You, by your own admission, don't even want them to take two days, out of some fear that they will buy elsewhere. So that's where the pressure comes in. I had no idea that the whole thing is a dance based on getting a customer to take delivery ASAP. I would have thought the idea was to have a happy customer who feels really good about his purchase, and therefore looks for the salesman next time and recommends him to his friends.
If you can't see that different ways of "maximizing profits" by failing to explain things, glossing over things, and generally misleading, if not outright lying to the customer tilts the balance of power away from the one that has the money, to the one that has the training, skills and experience can lead to exploiting your customer, I don't know what else to say.
It's not like real estate people, jewelry salesman, roofers or fence companies have this type of image problem. There obviously must be a cause for it. I am not saying it is any of you in particular, but a problem exists in dealerships, whether it is the salesman, the finance guy, whoever.
a. I live on an island with a good percentage of high end customers. I see wealthy people all the time. I understand that it is very much an emotional purchase for them, based on percieved luxury, cache, image etc.
b. I have driven MB and BMWs. I like BMW's very much. But we are not talking about driving experience here.
c. I am not here to dish dealers, but some people seem to have thin skin and cannot take criticism of their product(s).
And a Range Rover starts at $80k and goes to $114k. I guess he just wanted our advice and then dishes us and our product. What a guy. Just another troll. I guess he never reads auto mag reviews.
Chuck, most buyers when they come in to a dealership are ready to buy today, and are happy when they find a vehicle they like, at a price they want to pay, and with a salesperson they enjoy dealing with. Those people buy today. They already did their thinking about it two weeks before coming in.
Us, as salespeople asking a customer to purchase today is not pressure. It's courtesy. Do you know how many customers are insulted when they are actually ready to buy but the salesperson doesn't ask them if they want to, or won't go to work on the price for them because he assumes they're not buyers today, when in fact they are?
We gotta assume everyone is a buyer. If you're not, then say so.
As for the odds, they're more on your side. You have 25 other dealerships within 10 miles of each other (at least here) that you can get up to and go to at any moment. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to sit and endure an experience you're not enjoying.
Plus you have the internet where you can research the cost of any new and used cars out there. You have eBay, carmax, and other services that can get you the car you want without any price haggling, or without setting foot in a dealership. And you have thousands upon thousands of classified ads with for sale by owner vehicles, mostly priced lower than at dealerships.
Yet you're willing to sit in a dealership and get mistreated and then whine that the odds are stacked against you? :confuse:
Comments
Back in college I worked at a local car wash. The water used to wash the cars drained down into a settling pit where the crud sank to the bottom before the water was reused to wash the next car. The problem with salt was that much of it dissolved into the water and soon your were washing and rinsing the cars with a salt brine. That may explain some of the rust.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Favorite past time: Cow Tipping. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
What a concept!
Is this what they mean by "well water"?
ONLY passtime!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
LOL
Hey, she's just excited and he's gotahavit, the Windstar that is.
So don't blame her for being too excited and not knowing the ways of this forum.
Otherwise we won’t know where you got your info or who to blame if you get screwed in your negotiating endeavors
Or she might leave deposits that he'll want refunded like some Chuck from il :P Right Chuck?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I think at the $3500 level, it's just got to be a decent car that runs well, stops and can pass inspection. She obviously likes it. I doubt she'll own it for more than 3 years.
But I do see some nice new houses immediately outside Albany. Mostly south of Albany and West, as those are the two areas I drive through.
Middletown has a nice, historic looking downtown area.
We found a nice diner in Ravena.
Anyplace where you can get a fairly new 3 bedroom house for $150,000 is OK in my book!
The buyer says "I want to step back and think about this deal", and they hear "I want free floor mats", or something.
I learned to take what people say as truth, unless I see otherwise, I assume that what they are telling me is true. You can drive yourself crazy trying to interpret and "read" situations.
1. Are there two tiers of dealerships, the build a relationship, get word of mouth referrals, make the customer happy type (maybe family owned)?
And the maximize profit on each deal 'cause we're never gonna see this sucker again anyway type (high volume dealers?)?
2. I would really like to know how they train the salespeople these days. Does it depend on the type of dealership, or do they all train pretty much the same? Is there still a lot of pressure to "move iron" or whatever it's called. Is it still similar to that Edmunds article "Confessions of Car Salesman"?
2. preowned Piot, CPO would have 7yrs/100K on the powertrain, and Honda has the best CPO program, 1yr/12K bumper to bumper. They are also easy to find with leather and about a grand cheaper than the 4Runner.
3. A new CRV. I could get a new car with leather, heated seats, sunroof, etc. for the same 26K or so I would spend on the Pilot/4Runner. Obviously it would have 3yrs/36K bumper to bumper, and whatever the powertrain warranty is, I think it's 5 yrs/ 60K.
I know, I know, you're all gonna tell me buy what I like. Make up your mind, Chuck. You're gonna have to test drive them and see, blah, blah, blah. But I'd really like to hear what each of you car buffs would buy in a similar situation.
Gas mileage is not too much of a consideration to me right now. I drive very little now and gas is relatively cheap (for now), but I might drive more in the future if I look for a job, and obviously gas could spike back up to $4. I don't plan on using this car for long trips, but I like the option of being able to use it for trips, so if gas does go back to $4, I'm kind of screwed with the 4Runner, and a little less so with the Pilot.
Safety is a big concern. I like to feel safe, and my younger son is coming up on licensing age and would probably borrow the car.
I am trying to weigh the size, safety, heavy ride of the Pilot/4Runner against the new car reliability and warranty of the CRV.
I know there other possibilities, like a new Cherokee for not much more, or a new Liberty for the same price, but I really want something that is very, very reliable and holds it's value well.
anyway, although really not the right forum, but try tehem all. the CRV is smaller and much less powerful (might be hard going from a big 6 or V8 to a 4 banger).
THat, and do you have any need for serious trailbanging off road use, or towing? If not, the 4 runner is probably overkill.
and, if you have any need for 7 passenger seating, the pilot is the better option.
Me? Of those 3, I would get a pilot. But I am not you!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Plus, ACORN pays me 100K a year to get better deals on cars for poor people!
I have no need for towing.
I don't really go off road, but I like the option of being able to ride on the beach once or twice a year.
I have no need for 8 passenger seating. I really don't even want it. All it means is that when my parents visit I will have to drive them and my mother in law and everyone when we go for dinner.
I know the Pilot is much bigger than I need. 90% of the time it will only be one or two people in the car.
I like trucks, but the warranty on the CRV tempts me. I guess a CPO Pilot is the middle ground here, bigger than a CRV, but with a decent warranty. But I don't think the Honda AWD system can handle the beach.
All dealers are this way.
I would really like to know how they train the salespeople these days. Does it depend on the type of dealership, or do they all train pretty much the same?
All dealers are the same.
Is there still a lot of pressure to "move iron" or whatever it's called. Is it still similar to that Edmunds article "Confessions of Car Salesman"?
Identical to the Edmunds' article.
By the way, I think Jmonroe and ChuckfromLI should have their own special forum to post in. I think I might get as much amusement out of that as the Dodge Stealth guy....
Chuck, welcome. I've been enjoying your posts.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
preowned Piot, CPO
A new CRV. I could get a new car with leather, heated seats
Gas mileage is not too much of a consideration to me right now.
Safety is a big concern. I like to feel safe,
I know there other possibilities, like a new Cherokee for not much more,
Man, you gotta stop torturing yourself about this and make a decision. How could anyone here possibly help you when you are all over the lot, literally.
My only suggestion is to not put money on another car again and then find a reason to back out of the deal. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That is exactly why we only take non refundable deposits.
Chuck, I think you are over-thinking the problem. You need to become irrational. Just buy something you like because you like it. Of course, don't pay more than it's worth, but there is NO PERFECT CAR out there. Impossible. I've owned more cars than most people have dishes in their kitchen, and I never found the perfect car.
This isn't Match.com. This is a car.
Anything for you, Kirstie!
I really can't tell.
Is this some type of sensitive subject that no salesperson will address?
And I do have a '82 Accord coupe that's worth ten grand, but it's the EX model!
And-It has beaded seat covers!
Some people like to research things as much as possible, and some people like to, you know, wax their car three times a week or something.
Whatever therapy works for people.
I drove two cars, at two different dealers.
It is the biggest purchase the average person makes after a house. And it is a "stupid" purchase in that it immediately starts losing value.
And for close to 30K, I want to be very, very happy. I want a perfect fit, like my trusty Pathfinder has been.
You're sounding like you don't want any intelligent consumers taking their time and making an informed decison (no offense). "
"Just get 'em in something and make sure they drive away in it"
preowned 4Runner, a CPO
preowned Piot, CPO
A new CRV. I could get a new car with leather, heated seats
Gas mileage is not too much of a consideration to me right now.
Safety is a big concern. I like to feel safe,
I know there other possibilities, like a new Cherokee for not much more, or maybe a Liberty
counts as all over the lot. You also mentioned that you were falling in love more and more every day with your current Pathfinder......
I'm glad you like to feel safe. I'm sure you would get that feeling in any of the 6 vehicles that you are currently interested. My advice is to put deposits down on all 6 and then back out of all 6. Find which dealer doesn't make you feel weird, doesn't give you the impression that they want you to purchase the vehicle and then purchase from them.
Good luck!
But what I was intersted in is HOW they go about maximizing profits.
Interesting note, the salesman at the Toyota place where I put my D.P. was the same "kid" who sold me my TV as Circuit City a few years ago. I knew that I knew him from somewhere. And the reason I bought the TV at Circuit City, from him, is because he was helpful, very energetic, and when I asked about delivery he told me he would deliver it that night around 9 PM on his meal hour! He said his friend had a van and they do this all the time. Delivery and set up was something like $75. So, this "kid" literally SOLD me the TV. He made the deal happen.
BTW-I had visited a Best Buy where the 19 year old clerk gave me information about cables that conflicted with other things I had heard, and told me I would need $300 worth of cables to make the TV work (wrong!).
I also visited a PC Richard. The middle aged salesmen had no idea how to hook up the TV, and didn't seem to care. Their packages were something like, delivery $50, delivery and plug in $75, delivery and mount on wall $150. When I told them I wanted something in the middle, no wall mounting, but hooked up to the cable box and a Bose system, they didn't know what to say. They couldn't think outside the box.
BTW-That was for a $1000 TV, not a $25,000 car. And no one complained that I came into the store and watched their TVs for free or asked them questions.
Looking for woman half my age. Must love grilling, Becks beer, working out, swimming, drinking coffee, travel, and occasional four wheeling on the beach. Must have Toyota 4Runner LIMITED model, preferably in white.
Send picture of 4Runner.
I've seen it happen many times where a customer has narrowed down to a few vehicles and they get totally wrapped up in trying to make a decision, and BAM! they just buy something totally different that wasn't even on their radar.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
As for training, all salespeople are trained to close the deal today, whether on a new customer or on a repeat customer. Even repeat customers will buy elsewhere if something rubs them the wrong way that day.
Every customer and every deal = close now, and maximize gross. No different than any other business.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
As far as due diligence, I suspect that most of the people buying these vehicle are too busy with their business/practice to really do much research into vehicles. I tend to think they buy whatever strikes them at the moment. And yes, you are probably right that being treated failry is of utmost importance to them.
I would generalize that someone who buys a LR over a Land Cruiser or a Sequia is the same as someone who buys a MB over a Lexus, more money than common sense. No one in their right mind would spend a ton of money for a vehicle with subpar reliability and annoying electrical problems.
Due diligence, I think not.
There sometimes seems to be a direct inverse correlation between education and common sense, a.k.a. "street smarts". Just ask Bernie Madoff.
But why not keep rubbing them the right way, even if takes a few days?
There is no other business that seeks to exploit the consumer in what is an akward moment for them. They are at their most vulnerable, making the second biggest purchase in their life, and the dealers emphasis is "close the deal now"
I could go to buy a pair of pants, a towel, a mattress, a watch, jewelry, whatever, and the salesperson puts little or no stress on me to "buy now!"
Just calling 'em as I see 'em, as you have all done.
I would generalize that someone who buys a LR over a Land Cruiser or a Sequia is the same as someone who buys a MB over a Lexus, more money than common sense. No one in their right mind would spend a ton of money for a vehicle with subpar reliability and annoying electrical problems.
Due diligence, I think not.
There sometimes seems to be a direct inverse correlation between education and common sense, a.k.a. "street smarts". Just ask Bernie Madoff.
I did have hope for you but it is obvious that:
a. You do not know a high end customer
b. You do not know the engineering or driving expirience of a European vehicle
c. You are here just to dish dealers.
Goodbye
That's called the "rich people are stupid" theory and it really doesn't hold much water IMO.
High end buyers are purchasing a driving experience that the lower priced car cannot deliver, as well as the status that the lower priced car cannot match. These are not by any means insane motives.
If reliability ratings were the only thing people looked at, the sales figures would reflect a direct correlation. But they don't. Cars are emotional and social buys, too---not merely pragmatic purchases IMO.
How much plywood can you carry in a Porsche after all?
You as a customer chose to come into my dealership.
Unless you sign, and you take delivery, we do not make a penny.
You are in control all the time, because it is you that's buying and you that's holding the money. Without your money we cannot exist.
Not only can you walk away but you can go to a hundred other competitors within a 100 mile radius and buy there.
How is a dealer exploiting a customer when it's the customer that's in charge all the time?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Compare a Land Cruiser to a Range Rover and tell me why anyone would want to spend an extra 20K or so.
Free latte, wi fi in the waiting room, and to make a fashion statement, that's why.
While waiting walked the lot and observed the staff. Four very young men sitting in golf carts / cell phones / laughing /smoking. They were soon joined by a strutting man in his late thirties - black pants/red button down shirt /name tag with sunglasses on his head. He joined in. Had I drove there to look at cars, I would have left without getting out of my car which would have been a mistake because inside there were two knowledgeable sales pros working the phones. I eavesdropped on one and after he hung up- chatted a bit and took his card. Maybe someone can explain the dealership's strategy on what I saw.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The average person buys a car from a dealer maybe every 3,4,5,6,7 years. So they go through this process seven, eight, maybe ten times in their life. They are pitted against a salesperson who is trained in all sorts of clever ways to maximize the profit, some obvious and some not so obvious, and to appeal to the buyers emotion to, as YOU GUYS put it, "close the deal today/now". To the average consumer this like saying, "I work out a couple of times a week, and I took karate thirty years ago, so now I'll enter an Ultimate Fighting Champioship or a professional boxing match". The odds are stacked against the consumer in a battles of wills, knowledge and techniques, as much as the dealer wants to stack the odds.
Some may be nice guys who's profit is all in the price of the car and is visible, some may be a little shadier and attempt to have a consumer take out two loans without ever explaining that that's how they are doing a "spot delivery".
In a perfect world, no one would make this decision without spending a few dozen hours on line, visiting at least three or four dealerships, and driving at least three or four models. A rational decision would take about two weeks, to make. But this isn't a perfect world and people have to work, their kids have activities, their parents are have problems, whatever. There is often not enough time to see the process through in a rational manner.
But you guys know this, and don't really want anyone to take this amount of time. You, by your own admission, don't even want them to take two days, out of some fear that they will buy elsewhere. So that's where the pressure comes in. I had no idea that the whole thing is a dance based on getting a customer to take delivery ASAP. I would have thought the idea was to have a happy customer who feels really good about his purchase, and therefore looks for the salesman next time and recommends him to his friends.
If you can't see that different ways of "maximizing profits" by failing to explain things, glossing over things, and generally misleading, if not outright lying to the customer tilts the balance of power away from the one that has the money, to the one that has the training, skills and experience can lead to exploiting your customer, I don't know what else to say.
It's not like real estate people, jewelry salesman, roofers or fence companies have this type of image problem. There obviously must be a cause for it. I am not saying it is any of you in particular, but a problem exists in dealerships, whether it is the salesman, the finance guy, whoever.
These vehicles are not even in the same class. The Land Cruiser and Range Rover are similar size, probably similar power, etc.
b. I have driven MB and BMWs. I like BMW's very much. But we are not talking about driving experience here.
c. I am not here to dish dealers, but some people seem to have thin skin and cannot take criticism of their product(s).
I may not be comparing apples to apples but the Land Cruiser starts at $64K and the LR4 starts at $48K.
Am I missing something here??
Us, as salespeople asking a customer to purchase today is not pressure. It's courtesy. Do you know how many customers are insulted when they are actually ready to buy but the salesperson doesn't ask them if they want to, or won't go to work on the price for them because he assumes they're not buyers today, when in fact they are?
We gotta assume everyone is a buyer. If you're not, then say so.
As for the odds, they're more on your side. You have 25 other dealerships within 10 miles of each other (at least here) that you can get up to and go to at any moment. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to sit and endure an experience you're not enjoying.
Plus you have the internet where you can research the cost of any new and used cars out there. You have eBay, carmax, and other services that can get you the car you want without any price haggling, or without setting foot in a dealership.
And you have thousands upon thousands of classified ads with for sale by owner vehicles, mostly priced lower than at dealerships.
Yet you're willing to sit in a dealership and get mistreated and then whine that the odds are stacked against you? :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX