Thank you for your reply and suggestions. My thoughts are already going in that direction. My next car most likely will not be leased, however even if I had purchased rather than leased the current car, I probably would have had more than 8 months left on the loan. That said, I know that I have to re-think my next car investment.
Sometimes you can do a 1000 point inspection and not find anything
And doing a one point inspection for a hose that should be replaced, per a service bulletin, will find the wrong hose every time. I can’t imagine the replacement hose doesn’t have identifying markings on the hose itself or different crimped metal ends of the hose to distinguish it from the original equipment hose that should be replaced.
This is clearly incompetence on the part of the service department. Kinda degrades ones confidence in buying a CPO in my opinion.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
We do not know the cause yet and probably only heard part of the story. If it is the hose it may be a warranty issue otherwise it may be an insurance issue. This will not be a dealer issue as some has inferred.
This is clearly incompetence on the part of the service department. Kinda degrades ones confidence in buying a CPO in my opinion.
Once again quick to jump to conclusions and blame the dealer. Let's wait until we hear what caused the fire. If it was electrical, those problems can occur suddenly and no preventive maintenance can detect that possibility. As for losing confidence in CPO, even if it was a dealer error, does one problem out of a million shake confidence? Do you fly?
That says it all. If the dealer did a sloppy CPO inspection and didn't bother to fix a factory recall item that led to previous car fires then the blame is on him.
If, on the other hand, the buyer was washing the motor with gasoline while smoking, you can't blame the dealer. I doubt that happened.
If I was a dealer and one of my cars caught fire 3 hours after leaving I'd be darn sure I did everything I could to ward off the bad publicity. One story like that on the local news could ruin a business. I would at least tell the customer that I'd replace the car pending the fire investigation. If it turned out later that the customer was trying a scam, them I'd call the police.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Years ago when the CPO concept first appeared I had a salesman tell me that CPO designation was nothing more than an insurance policy against future breakdowns. The dealer did nothing special to recondition a CPO car.
Of course his dealership did not offer CPO cars at that time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Once again quick to jump to conclusions and blame the dealer. Let's wait until we hear what caused the fire.
I’m only blaming the dealer if they didn’t follow the service bulletin like the OP alluded to in post 1760.
If it was electrical, those problems can occur suddenly and no preventive maintenance can detect that possibility.
Since I know something about wires I won’t argue with that unless there is a service bulletin about that too.
As for losing confidence in CPO, even if it was a dealer error, does one problem out of a million shake confidence? Do you fly?
Ask the OP about his confidence in CPO’s.
Yes I fly. Don’t confuse the competence of aircraft mechanics to automotive mechanics. If they were the same I wouldn’t fly; don’t know of many people who would.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It would only be an insurance issue (yours) if you can't prove the dealership negligent for the fire.
The fact the car caught fire 3 hours after you bought it leads me to believe the service department crossed some wires, or something similar, while making repairs to make the car CPO certified. I would certainly be interested in what items were worked on while the car was at the dealership, less likely the fire is a due to a TSB or recall nonrepair... IMO.
Now, the fact the dealership almost killed you, should be worth at least the total purchase price of the car refunded to you. Or, a similar car of your choosing at no cost... plus free lifetime oil changes as a goodwill gesture.
Even if the dealer is at fault, it's still an insurance issue---his "errors and omissions" insurance. It's not going to be a warranty issue involving the factory, IMO. The factory is not going to roll over and accept any responsibility for an original manufacturing defect leading to a fire. You'd have to hire a forensics expert and spend about a gazillion dollars going THAT route.
I think one way or the other, someone's insurance company is going to settle this up for you.
Don’t confuse the competence of aircraft mechanics to automotive mechanics
The point was not about mechanics but rather does an aircraft accident make you less confident to fly as you stated the fire made you lose confidence in CPO.
When I worked in Alaska, they had a great system for dealing with aviation mechanic's errors. If you survived the crash, ,you just came back and shot the mechanic. This seems to have improved performance considerably. :P Of course, I am in no way suggesting that this be implemented in the lower 48.
The point was not about mechanics but rather does an aircraft accident make you less confident to fly as you stated the fire made you lose confidence in CPO.
My point was about a lot of automotive mechanics as opposed to a lot of aviation mechanics because the aviation mechanics follow service bulletins since if they don’t follow orders the consequences are too great.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would love to see you try to lease a "new car" with 17,500 miles on the odometer! That is so funny that you wouldn't think to mention that, what with all of your car sales experience.
I have leased used cars with more than 17500 miles. A "new" (defined as never registered) would lease but would have a penalty for miles over the banks limit - usually 1500 miles. I have leased service loaners and demos with 4-6k miles or more. New car money factor and residual but with a mileage penalty. Furthermore - other than you, who cares.
An aircraft are just a touch more complex. Not even a close comparison. Kinda like saying that a nuclear engineer is far better trained than a sanitary engineer.
Quote-"" Kinda like saying that a nuclear engineer is far better trained than a sanitary engineer. "" LR,That was really funny.Almost spilled my coffee.A nuclear and a sanitary engineer!!Whew! :shades:
You keep saying that "we have only heard part of the story". If you have a specific question, I encourage you to simply ask. Meanwhile, I spent about an hour on the phone w/Acura consumer services and it seems that the Dealer and I are moving towards a "peacefull resolution". Acura also said that they will conduct their own investigation and share their finding with me. I will keep everyone informed as to what the outcome of the "peacefull resolution" is. Also, My buddy at a differend Acura dealership thinks it was either related to the recall item that someone posted on this site or just a major screw up from their service department. Lets see which one after I get the report from the county fire dept and the Acura Rep. I thank everyone for their comments and support.
Well it's "all talk" at this point. I suspect the dealer will get his insurance adjusters involved. I'm not sure what, if any, role Acura will take other than making sure their butt is covered--which I'm sure the wording in their warranty already does, regarding fires.
I got 50 "big ones" saying the fire is related to a service department screw up. You want in on the action shifty... jmonroe?
Well, if the service dept. didn’t do any service bulletin work, that is a screw up. So I win and you get to pay up. Don’t worry about ‘shifty’; I get mine first.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
:mad: one way or another, I have lost all confidence in "CPO". I still dont have the resulution I was hoping for. Lets see waht happens tommorow. otherwise I will call evrery TV station, radio station, BBB, state reg agency or whovevr I can call. i strongly believe that by now the dealer knows the true cause of fire but not disclosing it.
- Exactly what restitution do you want for the car?
-Personally, I can't see you getting mucy info from your 'county fire department'. I don't think even an experienced fire investigator knows much about auto fires. They deal with structure fires, I wouldn't think they would even want to give an opinion about an auto fire.
"...otherwise I will call every TV station, radio station, BBB, state reg agency..."
Don't forget to hire a flatbed truck to carry the burned-out hulk around town with the appropriate signage (ie." XYZ Motors sells exploding cars!"). A few trips around the block in front of the dealership should do the trick.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I'm not so sure this is a good way to approach the problem. I think you have a strong and sympathetic case, but by "going overboard" (not saying this is actually your intention) to generate bad PR for the dealer, you might end up being treated as an explosive device rather than as a reasonable man with a very reasonable claim.
If I were you, I'd line up my own insurance options as an alternative means of getting some faster resolution. The dealer, if he's smart, will take care of this quickly without involving either the factory or the lawyers. If either of those come in, you're in for a long haul with an uncertain outcome IMO.
I don't think the dealer WANTED to set your car on fire. I'm sure this is an upset for him, too---not in the same way as for you, but a headache nonetheless. Don't treat him as evil, in other words---an least not YET~ :P
Good News Folks!! We have finally reached a peaceful resolution!!! The dealer has agreed to rescind the sales contract and he is taking the car back. I would just thank him for resolving this quickly and peacefully. Also, I would just like to thank everyone on this board for their comments, support and advice. And lastley, I think someone had asked earlier "how I liked the car". Well the answer is that I loved that car (tha's y I bought it). i still think RLs are great cars. This one just din work out. So, I will try and c if I can find a better one. BTW, I am sure there are some of u on this board who are Acura mechenics and fans so my question to you is that how are these RLs or the TLs in term of repair frequency and reliability?
Hi, my question is whether it is better to buy a used car from a dealer or from a broker?
I am trying to buy a used Infiniti M35, but I have a specific set of options/colors I want. Unfortunately, I could not find a car that meets all of my requirements at local dealerships. However, I noticed some ads for "used car brokers". They buy cars directly from the auctions, and thus have a much higher selection to choose from. Has anyone gotten a used car from a broker? What was the experience like?
If I buy a car from a dealership, I can inspect it and test drive it. Also, I assume the dealerships do a mechanical inspection of the cars they sell. I also have the option to get a certified pre-owned car which gets me an extended warranty. However, since the dealers near me don't have the exact car I want I would either have to wait or find a far-away dealer or relax my requirements. I feel that if I go to a broker, I would get the exact specs I want, but I am worried about getting a lemon. Have anyone been faced with a similar problem? Any suggestions?
However, since the dealers near me don't have the exact car I want I would either have to wait or find a far-away dealer or relax my requirements.
You could go to your local dealers and tell them what you want. Give them some time and they should be able to find what you want. When the car comes in you can do your inspections then to see if it is what you want. I would not give a dealer any up front money to find you a car but be prepared to not be in a good negotiating position since they know you can't go next door to get the car you want. If it isn't some odd ball color/option combo they will be able to sell it to someone else if you're not satisfied.
I don't know how far you plan to go to get a car through a broker but that has to be considered also.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hmm, I didn't know dealer would try to find a used car for me. I went to one dealership that didn't have a car with options I wanted, and they basically said "too bad" and didn't offer to find the one I wanted. My color choices aren't too restrictive (gray/black/silver outside, gray/black inside, i think those are the most popular colors anyway). However, I do want a non-sports M35 that is fully loaded with premium package which is somewhat rare. I did a search on autotrader, and they weren't any within 300 mile radius of me, but there were 3-4 within 500 miles radius so they are not impossible to find.
There is a broker fairly close to me, but they got some negative reviews, which is why I am hesitant to go to them. (It was only 3 review total, so the review might not mean much).
Thanks for the advice, I will contact a few of nearby dealers and see if they are willing to find a car for me. If I drop down from premium package to adv. tech. package I have dozens of cars in my area to choose from, so my plan was to do that if I can't find a good one with premium package in a month or so.
Btw, how often do luxury car dealers get more used cars in stock? Is waiting or viable option? Someone was telling me that Infiniti dealers aren't buying many used cars right now to make room for 2010s coming soon. Not sure if that's true.
well, that is not a particularly cheap car. And 500 miles isn't that far.
Why not just try to make a good deal with one of the dealers that has what you want, and just take a weekend to go get it? You will have a nice little shake down cruise on the way home!
Btw, how often do luxury car dealers get more used cars in stock?
Dealers get used cars for their lot based on their need for them. If they aren’t getting enough from trades they go to the auction, which is usually the case. Not having an adequate supply of good used cars for a new car dealer is like committing suicide because they make more money from their used car business than from their new car sales.
Someone was telling me that Infiniti dealers aren't buying many used cars right now to make room for 2010s coming soon. Not sure if that's true.
That doesn’t make sense to me. How could anyone make a general statement like that? Not all Infiniti dealers have the same inventory.
The used car business is separate from new cars; they need both to survive. Having one without the other is not an option.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Not a problem. One of my "hobbies" is following the auto industry. I remembered hearing a story about an Acura recall involving your year car. Just so happens this recall could lead to car fire.
I hope it all works out for you. And it sounds like it will.
Let's say you had two IDENTICAL, one-owner 90s Ford Mustangs on your lot. Both are immaculate cars.
Let's also say that the retail book for the cars is $10,000.
One of them, however, has a salvage title, due to front end sheet metal damage. The owner has photos of the damage, and the car suffered no frame damage. It was repainted from the firewall forward and looks great. This salvage title will never be expunged.
Question is (rather obviously)....how much would you have to discount to lure a buyer into taking the salvage title car over the non-salvage $10,000 car?
In other words, what price do you think, from your experience, would hook a buyer into the salvage car, given the one-owner status and "known" details of the damage?
If it were a trade - 50%. Banks will not finance a salvage title. Also, the damage was obviously more than the value of the car or it would not have been totaled by the insurance company.
Good points and thanks for making them--but no, not a trade---- a retail sale. So I'd like the discount on a "salvage retail sale".
I realize that most of you guys don't deal in salvage cars, but let's just say that you took this one in very very cheap and are putting it on the lot because it was so exceptionally nice, with all the right options that people want, good color, nice wheels, clean clean clean.
Or if you aren't working for a dealer, but you're a keen shopper, how much of a discount would you need?
Even if we don't take financing into consideration. I think the salvage car would have to be 60% to half price of the non salvage especially if they were side by side.
Same thing with something newer that would otherwise have warranty but now doesn't due to it's salvage status. 50-60% of non salvage retail would be about right. In my opinion paying anything more for a salvage title vehicle is insanity.
Comments
Thanks again.
And doing a one point inspection for a hose that should be replaced, per a service bulletin, will find the wrong hose every time. I can’t imagine the replacement hose doesn’t have identifying markings on the hose itself or different crimped metal ends of the hose to distinguish it from the original equipment hose that should be replaced.
This is clearly incompetence on the part of the service department. Kinda degrades ones confidence in buying a CPO in my opinion.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Once again quick to jump to conclusions and blame the dealer. Let's wait until we hear what caused the fire. If it was electrical, those problems can occur suddenly and no preventive maintenance can detect that possibility. As for losing confidence in CPO, even if it was a dealer error, does one problem out of a million shake confidence? Do you fly?
That says it all. If the dealer did a sloppy CPO inspection and didn't bother to fix a factory recall item that led to previous car fires then the blame is on him.
If, on the other hand, the buyer was washing the motor with gasoline while smoking, you can't blame the dealer. I doubt that happened.
If I was a dealer and one of my cars caught fire 3 hours after leaving I'd be darn sure I did everything I could to ward off the bad publicity. One story like that on the local news could ruin a business. I would at least tell the customer that I'd replace the car pending the fire investigation. If it turned out later that the customer was trying a scam, them I'd call the police.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Years ago when the CPO concept first appeared I had a salesman tell me that CPO designation was nothing more than an insurance policy against future breakdowns. The dealer did nothing special to recondition a CPO car.
Of course his dealership did not offer CPO cars at that time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I’m only blaming the dealer if they didn’t follow the service bulletin like the OP alluded to in post 1760.
If it was electrical, those problems can occur suddenly and no preventive maintenance can detect that possibility.
Since I know something about wires I won’t argue with that unless there is a service bulletin about that too.
As for losing confidence in CPO, even if it was a dealer error, does one problem out of a million shake confidence? Do you fly?
Ask the OP about his confidence in CPO’s.
Yes I fly. Don’t confuse the competence of aircraft mechanics to automotive mechanics. If they were the same I wouldn’t fly; don’t know of many people who would.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The fact the car caught fire 3 hours after you bought it leads me to believe the service department crossed some wires, or something similar, while making repairs to make the car CPO certified. I would certainly be interested in what items were worked on while the car was at the dealership, less likely the fire is a due to a TSB or recall nonrepair... IMO.
Now, the fact the dealership almost killed you, should be worth at least the total purchase price of the car refunded to you. Or, a similar car of your choosing at no cost... plus free lifetime oil changes as a goodwill gesture.
I think one way or the other, someone's insurance company is going to settle this up for you.
The point was not about mechanics but rather does an aircraft accident make you less confident to fly as you stated the fire made you lose confidence in CPO.
Me, I'd ask for free floormats....hit 'em where it hurts.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
This happened about 10 minutes from my house.
My point was about a lot of automotive mechanics as opposed to a lot of aviation mechanics because the aviation mechanics follow service bulletins since if they don’t follow orders the consequences are too great.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Good for the dealership and the buyer. Hopefully our story here will have a happy ending too.
I make a point to try to avoid burning cars. So far so good.
Smart dealer no matter what the cause.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
LR,That was really funny.Almost spilled my coffee.A nuclear and a sanitary engineer!!Whew! :shades:
Could you be a little more specific? What exactly is the dealership saying, and what are you saying?
I got 50 "big ones" saying the fire is related to a service department screw up.
You want in on the action shifty... jmonroe? :P
You want in on the action shifty... jmonroe?
Well, if the service dept. didn’t do any service bulletin work, that is a screw up. So I win and you get to pay up. Don’t worry about ‘shifty’; I get mine first.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
-Personally, I can't see you getting mucy info from your 'county fire department'. I don't think even an experienced fire investigator knows much about auto fires. They deal with structure fires, I wouldn't think they would even want to give an opinion about an auto fire.
Don't forget to hire a flatbed truck to carry the burned-out hulk around town with the appropriate signage (ie." XYZ Motors sells exploding cars!"). A few trips around the block in front of the dealership should do the trick.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If I were you, I'd line up my own insurance options as an alternative means of getting some faster resolution. The dealer, if he's smart, will take care of this quickly without involving either the factory or the lawyers. If either of those come in, you're in for a long haul with an uncertain outcome IMO.
I don't think the dealer WANTED to set your car on fire. I'm sure this is an upset for him, too---not in the same way as for you, but a headache nonetheless. Don't treat him as evil, in other words---an least not YET~ :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I am trying to buy a used Infiniti M35, but I have a specific set of options/colors I want. Unfortunately, I could not find a car that meets all of my requirements at local dealerships. However, I noticed some ads for "used car brokers". They buy cars directly from the auctions, and thus have a much higher selection to choose from. Has anyone gotten a used car from a broker? What was the experience like?
If I buy a car from a dealership, I can inspect it and test drive it. Also, I assume the dealerships do a mechanical inspection of the cars they sell. I also have the option to get a certified pre-owned car which gets me an extended warranty. However, since the dealers near me don't have the exact car I want I would either have to wait or find a far-away dealer or relax my requirements. I feel that if I go to a broker, I would get the exact specs I want, but I am worried about getting a lemon. Have anyone been faced with a similar problem? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Valentin
Where do you think dealers buy cars from? Try approaching your preferred dealer and ask them to find you a suitable car.
You could go to your local dealers and tell them what you want. Give them some time and they should be able to find what you want. When the car comes in you can do your inspections then to see if it is what you want. I would not give a dealer any up front money to find you a car but be prepared to not be in a good negotiating position since they know you can't go next door to get the car you want. If it isn't some odd ball color/option combo they will be able to sell it to someone else if you're not satisfied.
I don't know how far you plan to go to get a car through a broker but that has to be considered also.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
There is a broker fairly close to me, but they got some negative reviews, which is why I am hesitant to go to them. (It was only 3 review total, so the review might not mean much).
Thanks for the advice, I will contact a few of nearby dealers and see if they are willing to find a car for me. If I drop down from premium package to adv. tech. package I have dozens of cars in my area to choose from, so my plan was to do that if I can't find a good one with premium package in a month or so.
Btw, how often do luxury car dealers get more used cars in stock? Is waiting or viable option? Someone was telling me that Infiniti dealers aren't buying many used cars right now to make room for 2010s coming soon. Not sure if that's true.
Why not just try to make a good deal with one of the dealers that has what you want, and just take a weekend to go get it? You will have a nice little shake down cruise on the way home!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Dealers get used cars for their lot based on their need for them. If they aren’t getting enough from trades they go to the auction, which is usually the case. Not having an adequate supply of good used cars for a new car dealer is like committing suicide because they make more money from their used car business than from their new car sales.
Someone was telling me that Infiniti dealers aren't buying many used cars right now to make room for 2010s coming soon. Not sure if that's true.
That doesn’t make sense to me. How could anyone make a general statement like that? Not all Infiniti dealers have the same inventory.
The used car business is separate from new cars; they need both to survive. Having one without the other is not an option.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
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Chintan
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Or New as in new to me?
Or new as 2011, 2010...maybe 2009 new leftover.
Or like the 2008 new Shelby I just saw I saw on ebay (never titled)?
Sorry, but I have to ask.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I hope it all works out for you. And it sounds like it will.
Let's say you had two IDENTICAL, one-owner 90s Ford Mustangs on your lot. Both are immaculate cars.
Let's also say that the retail book for the cars is $10,000.
One of them, however, has a salvage title, due to front end sheet metal damage. The owner has photos of the damage, and the car suffered no frame damage. It was repainted from the firewall forward and looks great. This salvage title will never be expunged.
Question is (rather obviously)....how much would you have to discount to lure a buyer into taking the salvage title car over the non-salvage $10,000 car?
In other words, what price do you think, from your experience, would hook a buyer into the salvage car, given the one-owner status and "known" details of the damage?
Thank you for your opinions!
Shifty, a visiting Host
I realize that most of you guys don't deal in salvage cars, but let's just say that you took this one in very very cheap and are putting it on the lot because it was so exceptionally nice, with all the right options that people want, good color, nice wheels, clean clean clean.
Or if you aren't working for a dealer, but you're a keen shopper, how much of a discount would you need?
Even if we don't take financing into consideration. I think the salvage car would have to be 60% to half price of the non salvage especially if they were side by side.
Same thing with something newer that would otherwise have warranty but now doesn't due to it's salvage status. 50-60% of non salvage retail would be about right. In my opinion paying anything more for a salvage title vehicle is insanity.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX