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I just called the salesman and he told me no problem, he would kill the deal. He didn't even sound upset, he just asked why.
I told him that I really wanted a Limited. He said he'd speak to someone that goes to the auctions, the used car manager or something. I specifically told him an '06 or '07 with under 40K. I guess I could go for an '08 too, but that would hurt a little.
There is a real supply demand problem with 4Runners, especially the Limiteds. I probably shouldn't even tell you guys this, as you'll probably bid the prices up even more. But evidently Toyota manufactured very few of them in '07-'09. I think they manufactured very few 4Runners period, in '09. Maybe it was gas prices, maybe they used the same factories to turn out RAV4s or Priuses or something. But anyway, it's a sellers market. And just try to find any negative reviews of the vehicle from owners on Edmunds, MSN Autos or KBB. You'll have to go through 4 or 5 pages to of reviews to find anyone that doesn't love theirs.
Thanks again. Have a productive weekend! Think clarity, transparancy and "what does the customer want?" Think long term relationshp and word of mouth referrals.
BTW-Great idea for a new question. What kind of sales tactics/training do dealers teach/do these days? Must be a great topic for discussion with all the knowledge of psychology these days. What do they teach the new people coming into sales? What are the training seminars and meetings all about? Do they teach satisfy the customer, make them feel good, develop long term relationships? Or do they teach how to maximize profit on each deal in ways that the customer never suspects? I'd love to see a study of salespeople/dealerships that follow each model and who does better in the long run. I suspect that the salespeople at the "quick buck, hit 'em hard" places don't last long and don't feel that good when they do work there.
I set up an alert on autotrader, so I'll be notified if one gets listed within 10 miles of me. I am not going to 25-30 miles to buy a car, because if there is a problem with it, it would be a hassle to keep going back and forth for service.
I also found that on cars.com there was a local dealer with 4 4Runners listed, only one was a Limited. I called and went through all four stock numbers with the rep. All four had been sold. The rep told me that because they were on a main street, contactors driving by will see the vehicles and come in and buy them.
So, I have the alert on autotrader, and I have two Toyota dealers who are supposed to keep an eye out at the auctions. If nothing comes up in two weeks I'll go look at, and probably buy, a Pilot EX L. There are a lot of them around, and the prices are a grand or two cheaper.
Not sure if the Pilot can be driven on the beach, does anyone know? I know it's not a true 4 x 4, even though Honda calls it "inteligent four wheel drive" or something like that. I believe it's really AWD.
I put a lot of stock in the Consumer Reports ratings, and the Pathfinder does not rate well in reliabilty. This is confirmed by the owners ratings on various websites, and even by the pricing on used Pathys.
I think Nissan is a lot like Ford is now in terms of reliability, good for about the first six years or so. A clear notch below Honda and Toyota, though some people think Toyota is slipping. And when buying used, reliability matters more than anything else. You need the best.
And that's speaking of Nissan in general, not the Pathfinder. I think their only really good, reliable cars are the Altima and the Maxima. Probably the Sentra too, if they still make that.
But it was nice. I rode in it recently and you would never guess the mileage, tight ride, quiet, smooth. I think it was a V8 with RWD only.
More frankness coming, you might want to skip over this post.
I think you have a couple of problems. The first is that you have some money coming from somewhere and you are desperate to spend it. The second is that you don't know what it is that you want other than some sort of Japanese SUV/CUV.
Take a couple of steps back, let the money arrive, let it sit in your bank account for a month or two.
In the meantime assess your needs, do a little research and decide what it is you want to buy, then set about buying it.
If your requirements are set in stone, you have to flexible in location. Something has to give. And lrguy is right, again, nothing says that you can only service a car where you bought it.
Good luck.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
You sound like my wife.
BTW-She has more common sense than me!
GM-We can put leather in this one, you'll have a whole new interior, how much is that worth to you.
Me-Nothing really, I was paying top dollar already for a car close to four model years old.
GM-But how much would you pay for this car, that you know is nice, with leather?
Me-nothing extra.
GM-Would you pay an extra thousand?
Me-No, it's already at top dollar.
GM-Would you pay $500 more?
Me-I don't think so, but how much is it to convert it to leather?
GM-We usually get $2000, but I can talk to my manager. What if I say a thousand and you offer five hundred, maybe we can settle on $750.
Me-Maybe, but I'm not happy with your "pick it up in two days but we like you so we'll give you three or four days policy". The first thing I told the salesman is that I wanted the deal finalized at the end of the month.
GM-I don't car when the deal is done and you pick it up. I'll talk to my manager, maybe he'll go for the $750 on the leather.
Me-I just want to think about this.
GM-I'll speak to the manager and get back to you.
My thoughts:
1. The car business must really be slow, at least for used SUVs.
2. These people are freakin' annoying.
3. The guy is doing his job, I guess, trying to save the deal.
He already called back when I went out to get lunch, badgering my 75 year old mother in law for my cell phone number. He didn't believe that she didn't know it. I doubt if she even knows her own cell number, much less has mine memorized.
I also realized that, although I would have leather, it wouldn't be heated. That can be done, they sell seat heaters, but of course that would be more money.
I regret the day I ever walked into that dealership.
BTW-The $500 deposit posted on my credit card. It just showed up on the bank records today, posted date was two days ago.
I'll tell you, I was lucky enough to retire young. And between trips to the gym, the grocery store, running errands, taking my son to school, yardwork, whatever, I have nothing else to do other than to make my feelings known to people on Facebook, almost all of whom are middle aged adults in the same county, Edmunds and dealerrater.com. And to start sending letters up the corporate ladder.
No more talk of leather or seat heaters.
At this point you have nobody to blame but yourself. You should have never given the GM an opening with the leather. You backed out of the deal, time to move on.
Look, I should be on the dealer's side and not tell you anything cause you got yourself into this mess, BUT I'll tell you how it is:
if you give him any hint that you might still be interested in this car still they'll think you're just trying to grind for an extra discount, and they will keep on pushing and will try to throw stuff in until you agree. The reason they do it is because it works on many customers. I've seen it many a times.
If you want to end this, you gotta cut it off now don't say that you'll think about it. That'll be the best way. Otherwise everyone from the sales guy, to the assistant manager, to the sales manager, to the turnover guy, to the general manager to the owner will take a crack at trying to save the deal. And if you really want to tell them that you have a bad taste in your mouth from dealing with them, then do so after you get your deposit back.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have a Sport (I like the suspension better) with factory leather. love the car.
You have to look more then 10 miles out if you want to find a car. I drive 22.2 miles to work one way every day 10 miles is nothing.
The supply of good used cars has tightened up incredibly over the past couple of months now that most of the cars leased 2-3 years ago are done coming back.
Aren't there always 2-3 year old cars coming off lease? I suppose it is seasonal though. Or is that when sales/leases started going south?
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Before I got back on here to read your posts (much thanks BTW, you guys are pros, and I don't mean prostitutes!), my wife sent me out to BJs, so I got lift heavy things and work the agression out of my system, LOL.
I got home, just finished emptying the old Pathy, which I love more and more every day, and the phone rings. It's the GM:
GM-Hi, did you get the message that I called?
Me-Yes.
GM-Did you try to call me back?
Me-No.
GM-Why not?
Me-I'm not interested.
GM-Not interested in the leather, or not interested in the car?
Me-Not interested in the car.
GM-Why?
Me-Like I told you, I don't want to do anything right now. I have some personal issues, medical bills and things like that (first time I have ever lied to them).
GM- (sounding pissed) So this whole thing about wanting leather wasn't true?
Me-No, it's true that I want leather, I just don't want that car at this moment.
GM-(raising his voice a little) Do you know what I had to go through with my manager to get this leather deal done?
Me-No.
GM-Well, I had a big fight with my boss.
Me-I'm sorry.
GM-I'll refund your money.
Me-OK, thank you.
Gm-I'll process the refund (I never even asked for it)
Me-Thank you.
I really can't see anyone fighting with their boss in a dealership on a Saturday afternoon trying to get a customer discounted leather, but whatever. I think his point was to make me feel bad, and he did.
I really have to give the GM credit. He didn't call me any names or curse me out. I admit to being a d*ck and weaseling out of the deal, but it works for me
And he totally defused the situation. I have no desire to flame them and make it my hobby to cost them sales. I actually feel bad for them, for whatever sleazy tactics their employees employed, and I'm convinced the inmates are running the asylum at this dealership, I was just as wrong as they were.
I would try bringing them some donuts, but they'll probably lock the door when they see me coming.
Chances are he didn't have an "argument" with his boss over the leather. They discussed what they could have done to keep the deal together.
Their thinking is that you either found another one somewhere else that you like better, or that your significant other screamed at you for buying it without her permission/input.
That's why sometimes in the biz we say that "buyers are liars"
Thanks for sharing the story here and taking some heat for doing so. I admire your honesty with this group here.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This may be a chicken and egg situation up here in the Albany area. For years I've been asking how dealers here can ask $2K over KBB for not in high demand cars.
Now it seems the prices have jumped again as I see even 10 year old domestics going for more than TWICE what TMV say they're worth.
I wonder if there is truly a shortage or have asking prices gone so crazy in this area that people are being chased away. :confuse:
On the other hand, inventory in some dealers was low for new cars right after C4C ended. I supose that could drive people to the used market. Still, I wouldn't buy a used car from a local dealer either at those prices.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If I were in that situation I would want to know if the van came with any warranty. Where I live all dealers have to give a minimum 30 days. On a higher milage vehicle that warranty could easily worth the difference between private party (no warranty) and dealer (warranty) prices. I would think an older vehicle that made it through the warranty might have been a better one to begin with.
If on the other hand this is an "as is" type of deal why would you pay more to a dealer than a private party?
BTW, I can't imagine a 9 year old van with 117K miles being in excellent condition unless it was owned by some waxing fanatic like jmonroe.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Well, if it had been taken care of "by some waxing fanatic like jmonroe" it WOULD have been in "excellent" condition. The OP said it was in "good" condition.
Waxing will make the difference. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But I really do have to thank grandtotal, and lruy too, and I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two people.
It was great to be able to vent, as my wife and sons don't want to hear it anymore. They say I am nuts and create my own problems. Hogwash, I say!
I do admit to being impulsive sometimes. And possibly bipolar.
Maybe they are looking for the Obama clunkers and can't find them anymore?
From what I've seen, 90% of the cars in the area are either rusty domestics ten years old or older, or else newer Kias, Hyundais, and Civics that the college kids are driving up to school in.
I heard a story somewhere else, not sure where, not on line, of a woman I think it was who bought a car in a similar deal. The "dealer" took her to an auction, got the car for her, brought it back, and sold it to her. She had all kinds of problems with the car and the dealer said he wasn't the seller, he was just a middleman. I think this kind of thing is common in minority/immigrant/low income neighborhoods (to be frank). I rememeber now that this happened in Queens, NY.
Maybe they will all hate me, but if your budget is only $3500, I would either look privately for someone with service records, or look for a dealer that gives at least a 30 day warranty, though I can't imagine many dealers even selling cars for $3500.
Out of curiosity, what happens to those cars? If they are too expensive for your dealership to buy, where do they go? Auction? Won't they fetch same (or even les) than what your dealership would've paid? :confuse:
It seems that some of the lease companies just have a policy to not negotiate buy outs. They would rather send to the auction, even at a loss. I seem to recall that there may be some kind of gap type insurance that covers some of the losses?
Also, sometimes they send them trhough the auctin with a reserve, so if the prices aren't what they want, they pile them up and try again later.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You just happened to be following me that day stick.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well, for starters you don’t have to yell. Next, you responded to ‘stickguy’ but ‘shifty’ and some others were the ones who gave you the advice. You gotta play by the rules here especially with hosts that respond because they’re paid by commission. Otherwise we won’t know where you got your info or who to blame if you get screwed in your negotiating endeavors. :confuse:
Other than that, it sounds like you know how to listen. Good luck and let us know how you make out. That’s anther rule we have here.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have family in AMsterdam (1/2 west of Albany). Bad combo of lots of poor people, and lots of road salt.
I am shocked to see hugely rusted out cars being the norm up there (although some go back into the 80's, but some are not that old). I guess people are too lazy, cheap or poor to wash the salt off in the winter, and deal with the rust when it first starts.
No chance I would ever buy a used car in that area. Maybe that's why people go to Ct.?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Smart move, but I would still look privately. You may find a minivan that the owner took care of because it was his or her family vehicle. Such a person would have records of oil changes, repairs, tire rotations, etc. At least you could judge the person you were buying it from. Do they seem like they have enough money to maintain the vehicle properly? Did they use it and enjoy it? Or is it sitting somewhere with no plates because they can't afford insurance, and by the way, it needs some work.
It's not like there is any shortage of Windstars, Caravans, Voyagers.
BTW-Why would someone want someone else to sell their vehicle through consignment? Why wouldn't they just put it in the newspaper or on line, sell it themselves, and keep the whole $3000-3500 for themselves? Is it because there are problems with the vehicle?
Then I started spending time upstate and saw all these cars 10-15 years old with HOLES in them! Ten years old or so and completely eaten up by rust. Mostly domestic sedans and pick ups.
My guess is that there is so much snow and ice, that there is always salt on the roads and you can't keep it washed off. Either that, or it's just too cold to wash it yourself (obviously) and people can't aford ten dollars every week for a car wash, or they neglect the undercariage wash.
$2800 might be too low, especially on a car where the seller is making a commission--but if the car checks out really well, it's okay to offer a bit more. It's getting harder and harder to find ANY car for $3000 that's in really decent shape these days.
Remember, a $2800 car that needs tires is a $3200 car. So look at it that way.
I wouldn't buy that Windstar for any price. They weren't very good cars.
The 3.8 engines blew head gaskets and broke motor mounts and the automatic transmissions weren't very durable.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
In upstate NY they over-salt the roads in winter. You would have to give your car an undercarriage wash EVERY time you went out to keep the car clean. Not an easy task when it is below zero. I know I will be using the free car washes that came with my wife's car this winter.
As to the being poor, Amsterdam is typical of the small dying cities in the area. High unemployment and low-wage jobs. The only booming business' are the travel agents booking flights out of the state. So I would guess most who remain are in the poor category.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I didn't buy the Windstar, and instead got screwed over by Pontiac on a Montana, which was even worse than the '98 Montana my wife totaled. But it was really my wifes choice and she wanted another Montana. It was a beautiful looking van, but it was junk.
Is it possible you could save some more money, or get a small loan, and buy a used Sienna or Odyssey, maybe for $5000 or so?