I do mainly internet sales, and Craigslist has been a huge susccess to me. In our area (Vancouver) so many dealers are using it that they divided the listings into speprate pages for dealers, and seperate pages for private owners.
I don't pretend to be a private owner, but I do have my own style on Craigslist that helped make me most of my income this year
Paid training: you get paid for the time, most likely minimum wage.
Is it worth it? It depends. You might have busy days where you go through many customers and sell nothing, and some days you might sell a few cars. If you're the type that worries about what your paycheck will be next month and hate instability, then car sales is most likely not for you. Some months you'll have fat paychecks, and some you might not.
Skip the laptop part. Every dealer has their own style of selling, and some (actually most) might not want you to do your own calculations on a spreadsheet, or on a lap top. As for using it for presentations, that's usually done by the car and on the demo drive. Once you sit down at a desk, although it might be nice to provide some visual stuff about your product, it's mostly not necessary.
Comensation is typcailly a percentage of dealer profit. Say you sell a Corolla at full price with a $1500 mark up, you'll get 25-30% of that markup = $300-$500. If you give away $1000 discont, you'll get paid on the remaining $500 = $150 ($150 is usually the minimum paid on any deal even if it's a money loser).
If you sell 10 cars a month and they're all "flats", expect to make $1500 less deductions.
Some commissions can get high, over $1000. They may be rare though depending on the dealership pay plan, and inventory, but they sometimes make or break your month. (5 flats = $750, 3 x $1k = $3k, 4 $500 deals = $2k = total of $5750 on 12 units).
Selling is more about intereacting with your client than knowing technical stuff, vehicle specs, or having college edumacation.
If you can interact, and read people, find common ground fast, and be friendly, and outgoing, and yet assertive, you should do ok in sales. If you take a "no" personally and get offended or upset by rejection, then sales will not work for you.
Attractive or not, your personality must shine. If you have a huge friendly smile, and a positive attitude that's contagious, it will be far more helpful than just looks.
That pretty much sums it up from my point of view. Good luck and let us know how it goes! :shades:
To the OP, looks don't matter much if at all. Speaking from a customers perspective, I am more inclined to buy just about anything I intend on buying from someone who is friendly and simply answer my questions and addresses my concerns and needs and desires. Looks just doesn't play much of a part. I suppose my take would be that it might or might not help, but I just don't think it hurts.
The flip side, there are businesses that I just will not patronize based solely upon how I was treated in the past. None of them are because of an overly aggressive salesperson, but a bunch of them are because of an incompetent or uninformed or indifferent or unfriendly salesperson.
Best wishes whatever you decide. I can't provide insight into how the business works. There are some good folks here who can though.
206 of 256 Re: Why would a dealer be doing this? [fishhoppa] by greanpea68 Oct 08, 2008 (5:24 pm) Save | Reply Replying to: fishhoppa (Oct 08, 2008 5:03 pm)
I'm just more of a private person when it comes to my personal finances, hence, only securing a loan through my bank -- which also carries my mortgage -- versus a stranger where I do not have an on-going business relationship. (No offense to any F&I guys or dealers here!).
-Fish
That is all fine. I wouldn't take a bank draft where you fiil out any amount unless I had researched it with the bank. I would still do business with you but I would come to a agreement with you on figures, sign contracts, And send you to your bank to get a certified bank check.... something that was computer generated. The contracts would list your bank as the lien holder. When you came back with your certified check I would let you take delivery
Everyone is happy!
GP
Hi GP, (this is kinda long)
Thanks for the reply and info. Would a "5-liner" pull be the same or is it necessary to pull a "full" report?
The reason I'm asking is that I completely wasted 4 hours at a dealership today. The sales guy was really upfront & friendly, however the manager and GSM were the ones playing the games. The manager put down an OTD price that didn't add up to when all the numbers were added up. I took out my calculater and pointed out how there an unsubtantiated $400 overage whne the indivdual TTL numbers were added together. He explained it away as a simple mistake from when he wrote the number down. (Yeah, right - but I said fine, just no more 'mistakes' from this point on or I am leaving )
Than when it was all said and done, we agreed finally worked out a number and started to talk about how I was going to pay. They were not too thrilled about the draft check from my CU and insisted they needed to have a 5-liner pulled to verify that I am "good" with the draft payment. As you know I am not thrilled about uneccessary credit pulls, this so we went back and forth for about 15 minutes and I finally relented and said sure.
"Incredible score Mr. Fish, everything looks great" was what the manager said. They led me to the F&I office and the second round of waiting began. The manager comes out of the GSM's office with my blank draft and asks if he can start filling in the vin information, etc. - I said no, not until the paper work & contract has been printed out first - so he went back into the GSM office. The waiting continued and finally he comes back out with the credit app I filled out earlier for the 5 liner and tells me how his GSM needs to pull a full credit report on me + needs my employer & income information, etc. because they need to insure that my CU will honor the draft. WTF was all could think about because they already pulled the 5-liner and said I was all good to go earlier. :mad:
I reminded him of this and he goes into a speil about how the CU might not pay the dealership, etc. - all i could think about was that they probably wanted to shop my financing around.
Bottom-line: I told them that I would not permit a full pull because I was not financing through them and reminded them that they already pulled the 5-liner.
They said no way around this, so I left and hoped in my mind that every bad thing in the world was going to happen to them on their way home tonight :mad: . 4 hours wasted. It was as if though they kept making things up as things went along.
They pulled the 5-liner and said I was good to go...than they pull some BS like this at the end??? This also explains why the manager asked if he could pre-fill my draft ahead of time. He probably thought that if it was already filled out first and than they came to me with the BS full credit pull request, I'd accept because my draft would than be no good anywhere else until I get it replaced by my CU. Shady...shady...shady.
Anyhow, I am still as wary of car dealerships as ever... Am I expecting too much here or did I just pick lemons the last 2 times. :confuse: :lemon:
I think you were kidding. I have been in Industrial sales as an outside salesperson for over 30 years and I can tell you it takes a skillset beyond most peoples understanding to be in sales. Then there is the traffic, product issues, technical issues, delivery issues-all this you need to take care of because the customers perception is the "buck starts and stops with you".
gp wrote: "Never mind about 100 emails. His problem was if he bought or leased another Xterra back in July August he would have saved himself about $150 month. Wanted to get a 2009 because interior trim looked better. The problem was since he was $150 cheaper a few months ago it was hard for too swallow the price jump. " Yikes, talk about earning your commission. My sympathies. 100 emails. yah he was an idiot, if he paid high, karma is happy. In retrospect, he outsmarted himself and defied an honest saleman trying to clue him in. As the Ramones wrote: there's no stoppin the cretins from hoppin.
yes, my mom got rooked into a 5year lease with this car. it has 40K on it. They went through US Bank who will not negotiate the buyout down. I think the dealer quoted them 2500 for the warranty, which I told my dad dont bother with, but he is anal about that stuff and will probably get it anyway.
I told her keep it, pay it off in a year, no more car payments, since they are about to move and retire.
Is this an Acura extended warranty, or a third party? If it's a third party, there's a good chance they won't be in business for the full term of the warranty.
Comensation is typcailly a percentage of dealer profit. Say you sell a Corolla at full price with a $1500 mark up, you'll get 25-30% of that markup = $300-$500. If you give away $1000 discont, you'll get paid on the remaining $500 = $150 ($150 is usually the minimum paid on any deal even if it's a money loser).
They pulled the 5-liner and said I was good to go...than they pull some BS like this at the end??? This also explains why the manager asked if he could pre-fill my draft ahead of time. He probably thought that if it was already filled out first and than they came to me with the BS full credit pull request, I'd accept because my draft would than be no good anywhere else until I get it replaced by my CU. Shady...shady...shady.
I would agree that it is BS.... Like I suggested earlier. Just tell the dealer you are paying cash/ Tell them you will bring a certified check from your CU. If they don't want to agree to that upfront I guess they don't want to work with you. Give them a couple of days and see what they say when they call you back on the phone. If they don't agree to you dealing with your credit union than don't buy from there. I am sure (if this is a new car) there is another dealer in 30 mile radius.
As for the salesman being a nice guy.... Well that is a salesmans job. We waant you to like us
As for the managers trying to get you to pay more money... even a $400 bump, well that is it to be expected :surprise: ... It is the managers (and also the salesman) to make as much profit as possible.
Believe me I wish this stuff was ran like a department store where you pay the price on the tag.
Yikes, talk about earning your commission. My sympathies. 100 emails. yah he was an idiot, if he paid high, karma is happy. In retrospect, he outsmarted himself and defied an honest saleman trying to clue him in. As the Ramones wrote: there's no stoppin the cretins from hoppin.
The commision would have benn better back in July when he had the lessor payment :surprise: The programs have changed for the worse and he didn't listen. He is a individual who could afford the price jump.... but I don't think he believed that it would really happen..... as for the all the emails.... frustrating yes but it comes with territory... he really is a good guy when I am no negotiating with him. And I wouldn't classify him as a idiot either. Nissan just had some real big programs on the xtr\erras back during the summer.
There is still incentive if the salescrew is on salary. The first of course is keeping their jobs (and salarys!) The other one is unit bonuses. Sell more, earn more for you and the dealer.
Not really much different than commisioned sales, except for the potential huge varience month to month. The dealer might have to eat a couple of bad months though. But in any case, ne sell, no job.
like a department store where you pay the price on the tag
Do you still do that? :P
So, you just wait for the sale, the closeout, the clearance, end of the season, BOGO, last year's model, overstock, surplus, and horror of horrors, you could just ask for 10 or 25% off the sticker price (it works way more often than most people think), or just move on to the next retailer. Ultimately, you could just not buy. (I know, I'll take all the blame for the economic crisis)
Fixed price doesn't necessarily mean fixed pay. Every sales job has the same basic incentive. You don't sell, you don't eat. The better you sell (read more), the better you eat.
I have never known of a sales job that didn't have some performance based component to the pay. Bonus, contests, stepped pay, scaled per item, salary/draw plus etc. Even a flat rate per unit means sell more units, make bigger check. Yes, add-on sales usually carry a higher pay rate. The last time you bought shoes, you likely were asked if you also needed socks, shoe trees, polish, the super-duper waterproofer. The clerk/salesperson probably only made 2 or 5 percent on the shoes, but likely upwards of 50% on the socks.
Would you like that made with Absolut or Kettle One? Both of those add $1, $2, or $3 to the drink price, and the server knows, the more you spend the higher their tip is likely to be.
Mr., would your wife like a box of Thin Mints too? That box of cookies could kick the young girl up to the next higher prize level.
People are selling stuff all the time with the same simple incentive. The more they sell, the more they make. Fixed price or not.
Of course, there are problems. It seems to me that all manufacturers would have to go to this system simultaneously, for it to work for everyone? Or do you think this not an issue if some do, some don't?
Or do you think this not an issue if some do, some don't?
I'm really not sure on that. So far we have Saturn, Scion, Carmax, and Fitzmall that have gone with the one price system. (there may be others, I just don't know about them) I think there is a part of the buying public who like the no haggling idea, but haggling or negotiating is a rather ingrained part of the car buying thingy. I think it is mostly just a perception deal though.
Personally, I do not really believe there is such a thing as a fixed price on anything. Sure, there may be a retailer who refuses to negotiate, but the price of just about anything can be lowered. Saturn advertises sales, Carmax has their "Last Chance" deals. There is a limit as to how low it may go, but I'm not afraid to ask for a lower price on anything.
The appeal of any sales job is the potential income, and that potential can be great. Salespeople have to hustle, apply their skill, develop a thick skin, and wade through a lot of rejection and what seems like wasted time and effort, but the best of them in any business usually have a pretty good income.
Car sales is a bit different from most retail. Most car salesfolks have an incentive to protect/maximize profit since they are paid on profit. Compare that to the typical electronics, appliance, carpet, shoe, or any other retail salesperson who is simply paid a percentage or flat or sliding rate right of the top. Those folks often don't have a clue what the profit is in the products they sell.
My conversation with Shifty has me wondering. So, I do have a question for the sales types.
What do all of you think about the so called one price, fixed price, no haggle type of dealers? Do you have the impression that those systems have lower income potential, and so you prefer the system that bases pay on profit in spite of the hassles of the flexible pricing systems?
My thought on stores that claim they are one price is you still have to negotiate. Even though they are selling there car at a set price.... Chences are you are going to have a trade and you will have to negotiate that.... or the interest rate.
When I think back to working with customers they (customers) always seem to have "one price" in their mind.... Ussualy it is the lowest add in the paper :surprise:
So that being said it is almost like everyone has the one price option
For my next car, I am considering having a friend who happens to be a sales manager (local Ford dealer) buy a car for me at auction. We haven't discussed details since I am not planning to purchase until March but had a couple of questions. I'm hoping to save money doing it this way.
What is a fair price to offer him for the car? is it possible to get him to "certify" the car (brand dependent, of course)? Or can he have his mechanic look over the car for me?
Give him $500 over auction price for his trouble. Have it checked out with a mechanic once you've made the purchase. You can't certify it. Only a dealer can do that at the point of sale.
What is a fair price to offer him for the car? is it possible to get him to "certify" the car (brand dependent, of course)? Or can he have his mechanic look over the car for me?
If he is buying a car at auction he is probably registered under his dealership. I am curious to know what you guys talked about when this came about. Did he say he would sell it to you for what he paid at auction? Or was it more along the lines that he said hey I can get you what ever you want at the auction and leave it open for the purchase price of the car?
I am wondering if he is thinking, hey I have a deal here... this guy will tell me what he wants and I'll make the store a little profit... maybe even help with financing... I think you see where I am going with this. If he buys a car at auction under his dealer name and takes it in inventory his mechanics will check it out and perform any work.... it will be just like buying a used car from a dealer becasue ..... well that is what you would be doing :surprise:
Figure out with him what he plans on doing for you.
He can defiently get ti checked by his mechanics but it'll cost you extra.
Plus don't get upset if the auction car has some flaws or stuff not working.
Usually the managers see the cars when they pull up on the auction lane, and have about 10 seconds to look it over (apart from accident hostory declared with the listing).
I am wanting out of my 08 Pontiac G6 lease. I signed it last April. I have a 3 year lease on the contract. I currently have 8k on the car. It is loaded with leather, roof, 4cyl. It is a nice care, but I really want a Honda back.
I called GMAC, they stated I could transfer the lease to a newer credit worth applicant. This would cost the buyer or seller $595 for the processing fee. This would be the most practical and least expensive. I am really interested in do this process. But, getting a new owner can be difficult. The payment is attractive, $319 a month. For what you are getting, it is a great deal, as they would be able to assume the new lease with minimal down. It is still early in the lease, so they would get a like new lease.
It is too early to get out, the pontiac does not seem to hold its value well.
I then would go to Honda and assume a new lease for myself.
As a car dealer, do you know if this is done often? Thank for any help you may have. Getting the G6 was not my car of choice, it is a long story.
the idea is to hear from other dealers about what would be fair to pay for a car bought directly from auction. I'm guessing he would purchase it under his dealership's name and i would buy it from the dealership. We have to work out price range and car type but the car would be purchased specifically for me. I plan to finance part of the purchase either with him or my credit union.
I was thinking that $1000 to cover his time, mechanic's check, detail and transaction.
For my next car, I am considering having a friend who happens to be a sales manager (local Ford dealer) buy a car for me at auction. We haven't discussed details since I am not planning to purchase until March but had a couple of questions. I'm hoping to save money doing it this way.
Lots of "what ifs" here. It could be a great way to get exactly what you want and everyone is happy or you could easily lose a friend over this. How flexible are you? Are you able to go to the auction with him and make the final decision? If so, you will be able to control what you get. Otherwise, you are going to have to trust him to bring back something you hope you are going to approve of. What happens if he brings back a car and you don't like it? Will he be happy to put the reject on his lot and find you another one? Will you be expected to buy it even though it smells, is not the right shade of blue, has a few more blemishes than you would prefer, etc.?
Sounds risky to me; too many ways for things to go wrong. (but I'm picky, maybe you are not!) Good luck.
I was thinking that $1000 to cover his time, mechanic's check, detail and transaction
You may end up spending a little more...
I can realy only speak for the transactions in Massachussetts because every state has different laws. All the dealers here in MA. follow the same protocol so here is what I think you can expect.
If he buys it at $10,000 under his dealer name.... His dealership will look at the car and make sure it operating properly. This is called a "works check"... Average works check cost the sales department $400-$500. Meaning no matter what the service departmnent does, even if it just a oil change and tire rotation the sales department still pays the service department a certaing amount of money. Call it $400. Now if the work exceeds that amount and the bill comes to $800 than the service department only pays the $800. The reason sales still pays the $400 is "in case something goes wrong" the left over money pays it. The left over money goes in a pool. Mechanics are human and they don't alway see something that may break in two weeks after driving. This is one of the reasons I say I can only speak for my state because every state has different Lemon Laws :lemon:
SO now if you are still with me your car was bought at $10,000 at auction now add "shop charges" $400, now you are at $10,400.... Now every dealership has what is called Packs (profit for the owners and management teams) Salesman don't get paid on packs and they have a wide range of of amouts. Lets just say his dealership charges a $500 pack on used cars.
Your price of $10,000 ppaid at auction went to $10,400 with shop charges, now a $500 pack, Now on paper it shows that the dealership owns the vehicle for $10,900. Now you said you would pay a profit of a $1000.... You final purchase price is $11,900.
Well I think the spirit of that saying is that auction cars are thrown into an indifferent anonymous market place where there is no owner to question, no documents to read, no service records to ponder. It's not quite the same as any used car. It's more about the car as a commodity rather than someone's possession.
One price selling just doesn't work. You never get top flight sales people, because they can't make any money. Your competition just eats your lunch. The VAST majority of car buyers expect to haggle.
Nothing sells itself, least of all in theis market. Toyota is way down for the year and won't make it's own sales projection. If you DO plan on getting in to the car biz expect to work a lot of hours, deal w/ a lot of rejection and not make a lot of money. I wouldn't worry about the laptop, most Toyota stores are liner/closer stores and they keep a pretty tight rein on the sales staff. No freelancing.
As for attractiveness, it doesn't mean a thing. Most car salesmen are just fugly. I've worked w/ some very attractive women salesmen who couldn't sell their way out of a wet paper bag.
This isn't a part time industry. You will have to have a ton of commitment and a willingness to be yelled at. A lot. If you have a good personality and a thick skin, you CAN make a living.
I trust him as he has done this with other mutual friends (school and church). We will discuss brands, mileage and condition as we get closer to when I want to pull the trigger. I like the idea of going with him but it may take him a few trips to find what I am looking for.
Not as picky as I used to be with cars. having 3 small kids will do that to you. And it's not as "iffy" as I'm implying in my original post. I just didn't want to bore everyone with a long post and quite honestly, unnecessary details.
Thanks. I'm glad you are asking all these questions. It makes me think about the entire process.
makes perfect sense and thank you very much. That is what i was looking for. It also helps me with figuring out what is a fair price for him. Maybe i will knock my $1000 down a bit...
No offense but if you think $319 a month on a $22,000 car is attractive you are wrong. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that if the 2008 G6 4cyl is loaded it might have MSRP $25K. Selling price would easily be $22K. Right now you could BUY a G6 like this for 0% 60months $360. You could easily lease one right now for $250. In other words, you would have to really put some cash down before anyone would be willing to take over your lease as opposed to just going and getting a brand new one. Probably be better off waiting it out. Should've shopped around a little more.
PS: What Honda would you be getting into? Why? If you are getting into a Civic it wouldn't really be much different than the G6. Just saying. Also, your payment would probably be even higher on the Civic and thus even more not worth it.
This isn't a part time industry. You will have to have a ton of commitment and a willingness to be yelled at. A lot. If you have a good personality and a thick skin, you CAN make a living.
Now that was a sentence that put a smile on my face :shades:
Not totally true! Gunn Auto in San Antonio has 8 dealerships (Honda, Chevrolet, Acura, Honda, Infiniti, Buick, GMC and Nissan) with "1 simple price" and they have done very well. Gunn Honda has been the #1 Honda dealer in the area for the last 8-9 years. Believe me, the shopping experience is a real pleasure - everything above board, no pressure, no games, etc. Mr Gunn certainly got it right here in SA. Surprised others haven't tried it. Oh, there prices are very competitive though admittedly not always the lowest if you're a "grinder" but you'll pay in other ways with other dealers... :sick:
I too live in San Antonio and have experience with a couple of the dealerships and can say that in both cases there were no hidden fees involved whatsoever just the standard state inventory tax, $50.00 Doc fee, taxes, and DMV fees. Are they always the cheapest, no but the buying process is smooth for both parties. Philosophy may not work in all markets but it can and does seem to be working here. Much I think depends on the owners of the dealership more than anything else.
SA isn't a big market, not compared to Houston or Dallas. In a smaller market, it can work. Also, there are plenty of grinders out there who will shop the 1 price store and then beat the deal somewhere else. Believe me, if this REALLY worked well, all dealers would do it.
Hello, I recently decided my 16 yr. old van was heading towards the graveyard. For the first time in all these years, I was thinking about going car shopping. Every day, I drive home from work & always go past a brand name Dealer, who handles new & used. Day after day, driving by, I've looked at the cars. Suddenly, there was a car I really liked. It was used, but really clean. I pulled in. A salesman approached & I said I wondered about the price of that car. He immediately gave me a price: $8000. I asked his name & wrote it on the back of one of my cards, along w/ the price he quoted. I told him I would be back & I would be sure to ask for him. (there I go again trying to give someone a commission just because they talked to me). By the way, I am in sales myself, so I am sensitive to the salespersons' issues. When I did come back the next day, I looked for him, he was there, we talked about the car again. We went out & took a ride. I liked it. I thought I would buy it. I put my hand in my pocket for the card so I would not embarass myself by forgetting his name. We sat at his desk & he wrote up the deal. It said $10,999 & then I would have to give him my car ($2500 value max) I had the feeling he did not realize we had just spoken the day before. I spoke up. I said I was probably going to sell my own car myself as I had a person already wanting to buy it for $2500. It may be 16 yrs. old but only had 148,000 miles & it was in really good condition, always taken care of. He said NO. He said I could not sell it to this person, that it HAD TO be traded in. I brought his attention to the "new & improved" price. He then says he didn't remember us talking & I pulled out my card where I had everything written down. He said he would consult about this "problem" w/ his Sales Manager. He returned, saying they would do me a favor & reduce the price of the car down to $8500, but let's check my credit to see if I can get a loan. I thought, "gee, here I am a successful insurance agent & he thinks I can't get a loan because I am driving an older car." Men do this all the time & I am pretty tired of it. He returns with a couple offers, all showing the trade AND the $8500. To me this means the cost of the car is $8500 + the $2500 I would lose from my private buyer for my car who lives 2 blks. from my home. Why would he think he could cheat me like this? I even asked for him, remembered his name & then he tries to cheat me???? I said, "I'll think it over" & then I left. No hard feelings. I just left. I went directly to the Toyota dealer, was treated respectfully & the sales person was the difference between night & day. I bought a great car, got the loan in 10 minutes, with no trade, they financed every penney, & when I get my quarterly renewals, I will pay off 50%. I have been happily driving it every since. I regularily check my credit reports & it was about time to check it. On my TransUnion & Experian, it shows 27 yrs. of perfect credit. On the Equifax, which is the bureau the questionable salesperson made the loan inquiry to, it showed 20 credit checks, starting with the date I was there, and then every single day another one right through the end of the month. It's almost like when I didnt buy from him & did not return, he checked my credit everyday....maybe trying to find out where I was buying a car at. This has really hurt my credit score by about 80 points. When I left the first dealer that day, he never gave me a copy of anything . I called the Federal Trade Commission & they say they are sending me a package with some forms to fill out. Can anyone tell me if it sounds like he was doing something wrong by checking my credit over, and over, and over, until the end of the month? This just smells.... :mad:
On the Equifax, which is the bureau the questionable salesperson made the loan inquiry to, it showed 20 credit checks, starting with the date I was there, and then every single day another one right through the end of the month. It's almost like when I didnt buy from him & did not return, he checked my credit everyday....maybe trying to find out where I was buying a car at. This has really hurt my credit score by about 80 points. When I left the first dealer that day, he never gave me a copy of anything . I called the Federal Trade Commission & they say they are sending me a package with some forms to fill out. Can anyone tell me if it sounds like he was doing something wrong by checking my credit over, and over, and over, until the end of the month? This just smells....
They are trying to "poison" your credit report by the constant hard pulls and I believe it's against the law. I also think they do NOT have Permissable Purpose under the FCRA (especially if you did not sign anything allowing them to pull your credit) - again a violation which should be fine at $1000 per unauthorized pull. Aside from the FTC, I would also contact your state attorney general's office to file a complaint against the dealership for poisoning your credit reports. You have all the proof - request copies of your EQUIFAX reports that show all the pulls. The dealer has no way to support why they pulled your report 20+ times, especailly when you never signed nor authorized the pulls.
Comments
I don't pretend to be a private owner, but I do have my own style on Craigslist that helped make me most of my income this year
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Paid training: you get paid for the time, most likely minimum wage.
Is it worth it? It depends. You might have busy days where you go through many customers and sell nothing, and some days you might sell a few cars. If you're the type that worries about what your paycheck will be next month and hate instability, then car sales is most likely not for you. Some months you'll have fat paychecks, and some you might not.
Skip the laptop part. Every dealer has their own style of selling, and some (actually most) might not want you to do your own calculations on a spreadsheet, or on a lap top. As for using it for presentations, that's usually done by the car and on the demo drive. Once you sit down at a desk, although it might be nice to provide some visual stuff about your product, it's mostly not necessary.
Comensation is typcailly a percentage of dealer profit. Say you sell a Corolla at full price with a $1500 mark up, you'll get 25-30% of that markup = $300-$500. If you give away $1000 discont, you'll get paid on the remaining $500 = $150 ($150 is usually the minimum paid on any deal even if it's a money loser).
If you sell 10 cars a month and they're all "flats", expect to make $1500 less deductions.
Some commissions can get high, over $1000. They may be rare though depending on the dealership pay plan, and inventory, but they sometimes make or break your month. (5 flats = $750, 3 x $1k = $3k, 4 $500 deals = $2k = total of $5750 on 12 units).
Selling is more about intereacting with your client than knowing technical stuff, vehicle specs, or having college edumacation.
If you can interact, and read people, find common ground fast, and be friendly, and outgoing, and yet assertive, you should do ok in sales. If you take a "no" personally and get offended or upset by rejection, then sales will not work for you.
Attractive or not, your personality must shine. If you have a huge friendly smile, and a positive attitude that's contagious, it will be far more helpful than just looks.
That pretty much sums it up from my point of view. Good luck and let us know how it goes! :shades:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
unless you're usually a complete jerk.
To the OP, looks don't matter much if at all. Speaking from a customers perspective, I am more inclined to buy just about anything I intend on buying from someone who is friendly and simply answer my questions and addresses my concerns and needs and desires. Looks just doesn't play much of a part. I suppose my take would be that it might or might not help, but I just don't think it hurts.
The flip side, there are businesses that I just will not patronize based solely upon how I was treated in the past. None of them are because of an overly aggressive salesperson, but a bunch of them are because of an incompetent or uninformed or indifferent or unfriendly salesperson.
Best wishes whatever you decide. I can't provide insight into how the business works. There are some good folks here who can though.
Replying to: fishhoppa (Oct 08, 2008 5:03 pm)
I'm just more of a private person when it comes to my personal finances, hence, only securing a loan through my bank -- which also carries my mortgage -- versus a stranger where I do not have an on-going business relationship. (No offense to any F&I guys or dealers here!).
-Fish
That is all fine. I wouldn't take a bank draft where you fiil out any amount unless I had researched it with the bank. I would still do business with you but I would come to a agreement with you on figures, sign contracts, And send you to your bank to get a certified bank check.... something that was computer generated. The contracts would list your bank as the lien holder. When you came back with your certified check I would let you take delivery
Everyone is happy!
GP
Hi GP, (this is kinda long)
Thanks for the reply and info. Would a "5-liner" pull be the same or is it necessary to pull a "full" report?
The reason I'm asking is that I completely wasted 4 hours at a dealership today.
The sales guy was really upfront & friendly, however the manager and GSM were the ones playing the games. The manager put down an OTD price that didn't add up to when all the numbers were added up. I took out my calculater and pointed out how there an unsubtantiated $400 overage whne the indivdual TTL numbers were added together. He explained it away as a simple mistake from when he wrote the number down. (Yeah, right - but I said fine, just no more 'mistakes' from this point on or I am leaving )
Than when it was all said and done, we agreed finally worked out a number and started to talk about how I was going to pay. They were not too thrilled about the draft check from my CU and insisted they needed to have a 5-liner pulled to verify that I am "good" with the draft payment. As you know I am not thrilled about uneccessary credit pulls, this so we went back and forth for about 15 minutes and I finally relented and said sure.
"Incredible score Mr. Fish, everything looks great" was what the manager said. They led me to the F&I office and the second round of waiting began. The manager comes out of the GSM's office with my blank draft and asks if he can start filling in the vin information, etc. - I said no, not until the paper work & contract has been printed out first - so he went back into the GSM office. The waiting continued and finally he comes back out with the credit app I filled out earlier for the 5 liner and tells me how his GSM needs to pull a full credit report on me + needs my employer & income information, etc. because they need to insure that my CU will honor the draft. WTF was all could think about because they already pulled the 5-liner and said I was all good to go earlier. :mad:
I reminded him of this and he goes into a speil about how the CU might not pay the dealership, etc. - all i could think about was that they probably wanted to shop my financing around.
Bottom-line: I told them that I would not permit a full pull because I was not financing through them and reminded them that they already pulled the 5-liner.
They said no way around this, so I left and hoped in my mind that every bad thing in the world was going to happen to them on their way home tonight :mad: . 4 hours wasted. It was as if though they kept making things up as things went along.
They pulled the 5-liner and said I was good to go...than they pull some BS like this at the end??? This also explains why the manager asked if he could pre-fill my draft ahead of time. He probably thought that if it was already filled out first and than they came to me with the BS full credit pull request, I'd accept because my draft would than be no good anywhere else until I get it replaced by my CU. Shady...shady...shady.
Anyhow, I am still as wary of car dealerships as ever... Am I expecting too much here or did I just pick lemons the last 2 times. :confuse: :lemon:
-Fish
"Never mind about 100 emails. His problem was if he bought or leased another Xterra back in July August he would have saved himself about $150 month. Wanted to get a 2009 because interior trim looked better. The problem was since he was $150 cheaper a few months ago it was hard for too swallow the price jump. "
Yikes, talk about earning your commission. My sympathies. 100 emails. yah he was an idiot, if he paid high, karma is happy. In retrospect, he outsmarted himself and defied an honest saleman trying to clue him in. As the Ramones wrote: there's no stoppin the cretins from hoppin.
went through US Bank who will not negotiate the buyout down. I think the dealer
quoted them 2500 for the warranty, which I told my dad dont bother with, but
he is anal about that stuff and will probably get it anyway.
I told her keep it, pay it off in a year, no more car payments, since they are about to move and retire.
If you sell 10 cars a month and they're all
I have to start working in Vancoover :surprise:
GP
I would agree that it is BS.... Like I suggested earlier. Just tell the dealer you are paying cash/ Tell them you will bring a certified check from your CU. If they don't want to agree to that upfront I guess they don't want to work with you. Give them a couple of days and see what they say when they call you back on the phone. If they don't agree to you dealing with your credit union than don't buy from there. I am sure (if this is a new car) there is another dealer in 30 mile radius.
As for the salesman being a nice guy.... Well that is a salesmans job. We waant you to like us
As for the managers trying to get you to pay more money... even a $400 bump, well that is it to be expected :surprise: ... It is the managers (and also the salesman) to make as much profit as possible.
Believe me I wish this stuff was ran like a department store where you pay the price on the tag.
GP
The commision would have benn better back in July when he had the lessor payment :surprise: The programs have changed for the worse and he didn't listen. He is a individual who could afford the price jump.... but I don't think he believed that it would really happen..... as for the all the emails.... frustrating yes but it comes with territory... he really is a good guy when I am no negotiating with him. And I wouldn't classify him as a idiot either. Nissan just had some real big programs on the xtr\erras back during the summer.
GP
Not really much different than commisioned sales, except for the potential huge varience month to month. The dealer might have to eat a couple of bad months though. But in any case, ne sell, no job.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Do you still do that? :P
So, you just wait for the sale, the closeout, the clearance, end of the season, BOGO, last year's model, overstock, surplus, and horror of horrors, you could just ask for 10 or 25% off the sticker price (it works way more often than most people think), or just move on to the next retailer. Ultimately, you could just not buy. (I know, I'll take all the blame for the economic crisis)
I avoid retail on everything I can.
I have never known of a sales job that didn't have some performance based component to the pay. Bonus, contests, stepped pay, scaled per item, salary/draw plus etc. Even a flat rate per unit means sell more units, make bigger check. Yes, add-on sales usually carry a higher pay rate. The last time you bought shoes, you likely were asked if you also needed socks, shoe trees, polish, the super-duper waterproofer. The clerk/salesperson probably only made 2 or 5 percent on the shoes, but likely upwards of 50% on the socks.
Would you like that made with Absolut or Kettle One? Both of those add $1, $2, or $3 to the drink price, and the server knows, the more you spend the higher their tip is likely to be.
Mr., would your wife like a box of Thin Mints too? That box of cookies could kick the young girl up to the next higher prize level.
People are selling stuff all the time with the same simple incentive. The more they sell, the more they make. Fixed price or not.
I'm really not sure on that. So far we have Saturn, Scion, Carmax, and Fitzmall that have gone with the one price system. (there may be others, I just don't know about them) I think there is a part of the buying public who like the no haggling idea, but haggling or negotiating is a rather ingrained part of the car buying thingy. I think it is mostly just a perception deal though.
Personally, I do not really believe there is such a thing as a fixed price on anything. Sure, there may be a retailer who refuses to negotiate, but the price of just about anything can be lowered. Saturn advertises sales, Carmax has their "Last Chance" deals. There is a limit as to how low it may go, but I'm not afraid to ask for a lower price on anything.
The appeal of any sales job is the potential income, and that potential can be great. Salespeople have to hustle, apply their skill, develop a thick skin, and wade through a lot of rejection and what seems like wasted time and effort, but the best of them in any business usually have a pretty good income.
Car sales is a bit different from most retail. Most car salesfolks have an incentive to protect/maximize profit since they are paid on profit. Compare that to the typical electronics, appliance, carpet, shoe, or any other retail salesperson who is simply paid a percentage or flat or sliding rate right of the top. Those folks often don't have a clue what the profit is in the products they sell.
What do all of you think about the so called one price, fixed price, no haggle type of dealers? Do you have the impression that those systems have lower income potential, and so you prefer the system that bases pay on profit in spite of the hassles of the flexible pricing systems?
It would make my life a lot easier.
When I think back to working with customers they (customers) always seem to have "one price" in their mind.... Ussualy it is the lowest add in the paper :surprise:
So that being said it is almost like everyone has the one price option
GP
What is a fair price to offer him for the car? is it possible to get him to "certify" the car (brand dependent, of course)? Or can he have his mechanic look over the car for me?
any other thoughts are greatly appreciated.
If he is buying a car at auction he is probably registered under his dealership. I am curious to know what you guys talked about when this came about. Did he say he would sell it to you for what he paid at auction? Or was it more along the lines that he said hey I can get you what ever you want at the auction and leave it open for the purchase price of the car?
I am wondering if he is thinking, hey I have a deal here... this guy will tell me what he wants and I'll make the store a little profit... maybe even help with financing... I think you see where I am going with this. If he buys a car at auction under his dealer name and takes it in inventory his mechanics will check it out and perform any work.... it will be just like buying a used car from a dealer becasue ..... well that is what you would be doing :surprise:
Figure out with him what he plans on doing for you.
GP
Plus don't get upset if the auction car has some flaws or stuff not working.
Usually the managers see the cars when they pull up on the auction lane, and have about 10 seconds to look it over (apart from accident hostory declared with the listing).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I called GMAC, they stated I could transfer the lease to a newer credit worth applicant. This would cost the buyer or seller $595 for the processing fee. This
would be the most practical and least expensive. I am really interested in do this process. But, getting a new owner can be difficult. The payment is attractive, $319 a month. For what you are getting, it is a great deal, as they would be able to assume the new lease with minimal down. It is still early in the lease, so they would get a like new lease.
It is too early to get out, the pontiac does not seem to hold its value well.
I then would go to Honda and assume a new lease for myself.
As a car dealer, do you know if this is done often?
Thank for any help you may have. Getting the G6 was not my car of choice, it is a long story.
I was thinking that $1000 to cover his time, mechanic's check, detail and transaction.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Just hire a couple of order takers, pay them $12. an hour and they are good to go.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Lots of "what ifs" here. It could be a great way to get exactly what you want and everyone is happy or you could easily lose a friend over this. How flexible are you? Are you able to go to the auction with him and make the final decision? If so, you will be able to control what you get. Otherwise, you are going to have to trust him to bring back something you hope you are going to approve of. What happens if he brings back a car and you don't like it? Will he be happy to put the reject on his lot and find you another one? Will you be expected to buy it even though it smells, is not the right shade of blue, has a few more blemishes than you would prefer, etc.?
Sounds risky to me; too many ways for things to go wrong. (but I'm picky, maybe you are not!) Good luck.
You leased a fast depreciating car and getting out of that lease at this point would be an expensive proposition.
It's not a bad car. You can certainly live with it!
You may end up spending a little more...
I can realy only speak for the transactions in Massachussetts because every state has different laws. All the dealers here in MA. follow the same protocol so here is what I think you can expect.
If he buys it at $10,000 under his dealer name.... His dealership will look at the car and make sure it operating properly. This is called a "works check"... Average works check cost the sales department $400-$500. Meaning no matter what the service departmnent does, even if it just a oil change and tire rotation the sales department still pays the service department a certaing amount of money. Call it $400. Now if the work exceeds that amount and the bill comes to $800 than the service department only pays the $800. The reason sales still pays the $400 is "in case something goes wrong" the left over money pays it. The left over money goes in a pool. Mechanics are human and they don't alway see something that may break in two weeks after driving. This is one of the reasons I say I can only speak for my state because every state has different Lemon Laws :lemon:
SO now if you are still with me your car was bought at $10,000 at auction now add "shop charges" $400, now you are at $10,400.... Now every dealership has what is called Packs (profit for the owners and management teams) Salesman don't get paid on packs and they have a wide range of of amouts. Lets just say his dealership charges a $500 pack on used cars.
Your price of $10,000 ppaid at auction went to $10,400 with shop charges, now a $500 pack, Now on paper it shows that the dealership owns the vehicle for $10,900. Now you said you would pay a profit of a $1000.... You final purchase price is $11,900.
Hope that made sense :confuse:
GP
gP
At least that's how I interpreted that saying.
You never get top flight sales people, because they can't make any money.
Your competition just eats your lunch.
The VAST majority of car buyers expect to haggle.
Toyota is way down for the year and won't make it's own sales projection.
If you DO plan on getting in to the car biz expect to work a lot of hours, deal w/ a lot of rejection and not make a lot of money.
I wouldn't worry about the laptop, most Toyota stores are liner/closer stores and they keep a pretty tight rein on the sales staff. No freelancing.
As for attractiveness, it doesn't mean a thing. Most car salesmen are just fugly.
I've worked w/ some very attractive women salesmen who couldn't sell their way out of a wet paper bag.
This isn't a part time industry. You will have to have a ton of commitment and a willingness to be yelled at. A lot.
If you have a good personality and a thick skin, you CAN make a living.
Not as picky as I used to be with cars. having 3 small kids will do that to you. And it's not as "iffy" as I'm implying in my original post. I just didn't want to bore everyone with a long post and quite honestly, unnecessary details.
Thanks. I'm glad you are asking all these questions. It makes me think about the entire process.
Thanks greenpea
PS: What Honda would you be getting into? Why? If you are getting into a Civic it wouldn't really be much different than the G6. Just saying. Also, your payment would probably be even higher on the Civic and thus even more not worth it.
If you have a good personality and a thick skin, you CAN make a living.
Now that was a sentence that put a smile on my face :shades:
GP
Thanks greenpea
That is also funny :P
No problem glad I could help
GP
You hint at the answer to my question, but I'll ask. What kinds of add on fees are there after the "1 simple price"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In a smaller market, it can work.
Also, there are plenty of grinders out there who will shop the 1 price store and then beat the deal somewhere else.
Believe me, if this REALLY worked well, all dealers would do it.
They are trying to "poison" your credit report by the constant hard pulls and I believe it's against the law. I also think they do NOT have Permissable Purpose under the FCRA (especially if you did not sign anything allowing them to pull your credit) - again a violation which should be fine at $1000 per unauthorized pull. Aside from the FTC, I would also contact your state attorney general's office to file a complaint against the dealership for poisoning your credit reports. You have all the proof - request copies of your EQUIFAX reports that show all the pulls. The dealer has no way to support why they pulled your report 20+ times, especailly when you never signed nor authorized the pulls.
Good Luck to you.