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Ditto here, the last D3 vehicle in my driveway was in 1999. All three of them and the UAW can go pound salt before I voluntarily give them another dime.
In the time of WW II it was the auto industry that stopped making cars and started making what the USA needed to win the war.
Yes and this was done with no strings attached.
Buy the way don’t the us autoworkers use the American banks?
Why no string for the banks? What did the banks do to help win the war?
If we loose the auto industry how do we change over to do the same today?
Do we buy what we need from Japan?? Will they make this stuff for us? Will they sell to us? Or will they watch us fall?
Or have they started this war on the American auto industry as a pay back on the US. A pay back for what was done to them in WW II.
So keep buying *from Japan** and help them buy out the American flag.
You will end up stand up to the **Japan Flag.** instead of the USA.
We came to this country because it was the land of opportunity but today’s generation has no loyalty to America.
This is the start of the end if things don’t change soon.
If I had the floor at the auto rescue talks: \“ MITCH ALBOM “ DETROIT FREE PRESS COLUMNIST • November 23, 2008
OK. It's a fantasy. But if I had five minutes in front of Congress last week, here's what I would've said:
Good morning. First of all, before you ask, I flew commercial. Northwest Airlines. Had a bag of peanuts for breakfast. Of course, that's Northwest, which just merged with Delta, a merger you, our government, approved -- and one which, inevitably, will lead to big bonuses for their executives and higher costs for us. You seem to be okay with that kind of business.
Which makes me wonder why you're so against our kind of business? The kind we do in Detroit. The kind that gets your fingernails dirty. The kind where people use hammers and drills, not keystrokes. The kind where you get paid for making something, not moving money around a board and skimming a percentage.
You've already given hundreds of billions to banking and finance companies -- and hardly demanded anything. Yet you balk at the very idea of giving $25 billion to the Detroit Three.
Heck, you shoveled that exact amount to Citigroup -- $25 billion -- just weeks ago, and that place is about to crumble anyhow.
Does the word "hypocrisy" ring a bell?
Protecting the home turf?
Sen. Shelby. Yes. You. From Alabama. You've been awfully vocal. You called the Detroit Three's leaders "failures." You said loans to them would be "wasted money." You said they should go bankrupt and "let the market work."
Why weren't you equally vocal when your state handed out hundreds of millions in tax breaks to Mercedes-Benz, Hyundai, Honda and others to open plants there?
Why not "let the market work"? Or is it better for Alabama if the Detroit Three fold so that the foreign companies -- in your state -- can produce more? Way to think of the nation first, senator.
And you, Sen. Kyl of Arizona. You told reporters: "There's no reason to throw money at a problem that's not going to get solved." That's funny, coming from such an avid supporter of the Iraq war. You've been gung ho on that for years. So how could you just sit there when, according to the New York Times,
an Iraqi former 20 chief investigator told Congress that $13 billion in U.S. reconstruction funds "had been lost to fraud, embezzlement, theft and waste" by the Iraqi government?
That's 13 billion, senator. More than half of what the auto industry is asking for. Thirteen billion? Gone? Wasted?
Where was your "throwing money at a problem that's not going to get solved" speech then?
Watching over the bankers?
And the rest of you lawmakers. The ones who insist the auto companies show you a plan before you help them. You've already handed over $150 billion of our tax money to AIG.
How come you never demanded a plan from it? How come when AIG blew through its first $85 billion, you quickly gave it more? The car companies may be losing money, but they can
explain it: They're paying workers too much and selling cars for too little.
AIG lost hundred of billions in credit default swaps -- which no one can explain and which make nothing, produce nothing, employ no one and are essentially bets on failure. And you don't demand a paragraph from it?
Look. Nobody is saying the auto business is healthy. Its unions need to adjust more. Its models and dealerships need to shrink. Its top executives have to downsize their own importance.
But this is a business that has been around for more than a century. And some of its problems are because of that, because people get used to certain wages, manufacturers get used to certain business models. It's easy to point to foreign carmakers with tax breaks, no union costs and a cleaner slate -- not to mention help from their home cou ntries -- and say "be more like them." But if you let us die, you let our national spine collapse. America can't be a country of lawyers and financial analysts. We have to manufacture. We need that infrastructure. We need those jobs. We need that security. Have you forgotten who built equipment during the world wars? Besides, let's be honest. When it comes to blowing budgets, being grossly inefficient and wallowing in debt, who's better than Congress? So who are you to lecture anyone on how to run a business? Ask fair questions. Demand accountability. But knock it off with the holier than thou crap, OK? You got us into this mess with greed, a bad Fed policy and too little regulation. Don't kick our tires
to make yourselves look better.
What needs to change is the compansation in the E band Groups they are well over paid (Grade 12 on up). The E band pensions also need to change ASAP. STOP PAYING PENSIONS THAT ARE EQUAL TO THE BASS PAY OF EVERY PERSON FROM THE PLANT MANAGERS ON UP. THIS IS THE SAME ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TOP AT FORD. They need to have the same pensions that the workers have. When times are good they (the e band) get rich and the rest may get a 3% raise over 3 years. When times are bad they get rich and push the rest out and make us give up our jobs, and cut the pay rates. The public thinks that the hourly are over paid when its the E Band thats steeal the company blind. Its not just the bonuses that its every thing. We all need to cut but they can fly around and blow money.
Why is it that the top never gives up when we are in troble.
They always pull from the first line supervision, from middle managment and the UAW but never from the E band group. Its time that they start giving up as much as the workers have.
Hey, you senators: Thanks for nothing
A few parting words for the senators who squashed the auto rescue
By MITCH ALBOM: DETROIT FREE PRESS COLUMNIST, December 13, 2008
Do you want to watch us drown? Is that it? Do want to see
the last gurgle of economic air spit from our lips? If so,
senators, know this
I think the next generation of young people see Honda/Toyota as Mom and Dad's car - the antithesis of cool.
Pay the existing military contractors to greenfield the fab shops and workforce. It's faster and cheaper than trying to gut and reconfigure some inner-city auto plant and cull through the staff to see who can be retained. Do you really think that anyone who works at GM knows how to program the control logic for a UAV?
As that great American Rambo once said "I didn't start this thing!!".
As for your concerns about where we would make weapons for a war, I don't foresee us ever fighting a war where we'd have a year or so to convert an auto-plant, and then need it to build thousands and thousands of tanks over many years. Why? Technology has made warfare like that obsolete. It's almost as obsolete as marching in formation towards the enemy with a drummer. A couple of bombers carrying anti-armor cluster bombs can destroy an armored brigade within minutes. Sort of silly building 60-ton tanks when a single 5 Lb bomblet (of a hundred in a cluster bomb) can take out an enemy tank. http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomb_11.html
And if we do need auto factories for something, we'll still have all the Honda, Toyota, Korean, and German factories here on U.S. soil which can be converted.
That was then, this is now, lots of patriotic companies are gone including Willys who made Jeep. I am sure the auto industry benefited from the war too - and they sold lots of cars once the war was over....I don't think they made vehicles completely for patriotic reasons.
In the time of WW II it was the auto industry that stopped making cars and started making what the USA needed to win the war.
Hummer is still around for awhile. Can't hold onto unprofitable business because they might make products for a war. Next wars will probably be fought with missiles and planes anyway.
Buy the way don’t the us autoworkers use the American banks?
We all use banks, but companies that can't make a profit can't be subsidized.
Why no string for the banks? What did the banks do to help win the war?
We need banks or everything shuts down. Also, there isn't any competition to turn to. We absolutely need money, we don't need D3 cars, there are alternatives.
We came to this country because it was the land of opportunity but today’s generation has no loyalty to America.
I would love to buy American, but the quality has to be at least as good...and it isn't. And, I don't feel like subsidizing the UAW.
Fact is, many business's and even car makers have not survived over the years. But, the world goes on. We used to make radios and TVs in the USA and that business has gone to Asia a long time ago.....but we still survived.
The best hope is for the D3 to go into Chapter 11, reorganize, become smaller...reduce the number of models and concentrate on making them the best in their field, close down dealers, get a new work force that is not unionized.
If we keep subsidizing the D3 there is no incentive to change and even now the UAW won't give concessions. Many plants close down because the unions are unreasonable in their demands. Cost of labor is 10% of the cost of the car, so I would rather that extra money that the labor costs go into giving me more car for my money.....I kind of resent paying someone for else's pension and benefits if I don't have to.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good point. I was thinking of the exact same thing as I was leaving work today, which BTW is Lockheed Martin, the largest aerospace company and largest defense contractor. All of their planes, bombs, satellites, etc, are in fact made in the good old USofA. And I believe the latest Nemitz class carrier the USS George H Bush was also built here.
So needing the auto plants here on our soil owned by heritage American companies in case we need to convert them over to war machines is an idiotic argument. Would anyone in their right mind really want to be on a plane made by a UAW worker?
Fyi, Willys was folded into American Motors, which was bought by Chrysler. So in essence, good old Willys is still alive.
boy, are you stuck in the 50's.
"I would love to buy American"
you live in canada and there are a fair percentage of people in your province that work building vehicles or vehicle components for the D3.
now i think you are stuck in the 40's.
Correct, but if they can't compete then I won't buy their cars, whether they are American or Canadian built. I have worked for companies that went under and they weren't subsidized. I'll buy the best car I can afford and if it's made in Canada or the USA fantastic (I love the U.S. - worked for an American company for 16 years), but so far that isn't happening.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I sure would not want to. They cannot even build a decent small car. The UAW work rules would probably allow them to go on strike if they had to build tanks. The Anti-war sentiment within the rank and file UAW would probably cause US to lose any war we depended on them to supply. Let em dig out or their own hole or just die.
Tomorrow's wars will be fought with armed drones controlled from a work station in Silicon Valley. They are currently flying all over Iraq and Afghanistan ready to strike an enemy target. This stuff is so far past anything that GM builds, they would be at a loss. Quite frankly, I would not want to be a soldier out in the field waiting on equipment from a UAW company. They would for some political reason decide to strike and leave the troops hanging. Vinmar, this is not the same UAW patriots we had during WW2 or even the Korean conflict.
That is your right and I am not going to argue. I have owned many American made cars and they have been fine. My foreign made car is far superior so that's what I'll be buying. My father, and 2 brothers would say the same, so that's a big percentage from one family - 100% out of 4 cars! That should tell the D3 something :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Regards,
OW
Put it out in battle and the enemy will go running.
Especially if the paint them dull olive green which I saw once.....it was 1st prize in a contest. I think I'd be too embarassed to claim it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
link title
I guess Magna is glad they lost out to Cerberus in the first round of Chryslers sale. It would make some sense for them to buy part of Chrysler since they make so many parts for Chryco already......but buying the Calibre and PT Cruiser lines :confuse: Does that make sense?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/three-unappealing-conclusions-internationa- - l-banks/story.aspx?guid=%7B00F8D01E%2D13BE%2D411B%2DB374%2D08630DCA8F0B%7D&dist=- - TQP_Mod_mktwN
The price moves are understandable since the latest events offer an unappealing menu of conclusions:
1) The banks themselves haven't done as well as perceived at coping with the crisis;
2) Things are getting a lot worse for banking and the global economy;
3) Both.
This means that it is more doubtful that any auto-maker will make $ for a while.
2) Things are getting a lot worse for banking and the global economy;
3) Both.
Looks bleak.......but one day this too shall pass.....we all hope!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
--THEN, to export those jobs to where they could exploit the poor-usually in some third world country-where they ALSO got to "help" write enviormental policy,and labor laws,all to "maximise profits",,then still ask 40.000 for a car that won't go 100.000 miles and still be a car,while europe has been doing it for generations..
the thing that gets me,is where they tell people to put that 5w20 oil in their cars-KNOWING a motor will sieze a main bearing with that thin crap in it..rember 3-in-one oil?..that was a 10 weight oil..so,would YOU expect protection from a oil too thin to lubricate a sewing machine??..and the hundreds of cars i see for sale on craigs,where-it's a nice car,only needs a motor !!they call it "planned obsolesence",where parts only last for about 100.00,then,are designed to break,so you get tired of fixing that old,dirty,dented car for a NEW one,and they make money!!!
Anyone need to dispute this?? Come on, Do you fell lucky...PUNK?
Did anyone really think the internal forecasting capability in the D3 are any better than the IDIOTS in the Banking/Finance community, let alone CONGRESS?
OK, I'm good now after I got that off my chest. Now, on to paying my taxes...
Regards,
OW
I call your bluff Harry. No bullets in your gun.
Back it up w/ something. I've got nothing to lose, lying here on the ground staring down the barrel of an UNLOADED .45
Wrong again. It was a .44 magnum the most powerful handgun on the planet.
At least when Dirty Harry was saying it. Just like the UAW, he was a throw back to a different time. Walking around carrying protest signs is SO EU or MIDDLE EASTERN. :sick: This is America where we just get it done.
At the North American International Auto Show in Detroit on Monday, Ford Chief Executive Officer Alan Mulally predicted that U.S. vehicle sales "will gradually start to come back in the second half" of the year. Confidently declaring that "we will not see the worst case" scenario for industry sales, Mr. Mulally nonetheless acknowledged in a Bloomberg Television interview that Ford "would definitely need to think about recapitalizing" if total industry deliveries slumped to 10 million.
That level approximates the U.S. annual sales rate in the fourth quarter.
"The long and short of the situation is that it is unlikely to improve anytime soon," consulting firm IHS Global Insight, based in Lexington, Mass., said in a research report last week. "A predicted sales rate of 10.1 to 10.3 million units in 2009 would be disastrous, meeting or even [falling] below the 'worst-case scenarios' presented by the Detroit Three automakers to the U.S. Congress late last year."
The latest projection of IHS Global Insight, which has been making economic forecasts for more than 40 years, calls for American consumers to buy between 10 million and 10.5 million vehicles this year.
If sales were to fall that far, Ford told Congress in December that it would likely need federal loans of as much as $13 billion to sustain all its operations.
If Ford goes for $13B, GM and C would be OK?????
Regards,
OW
my explorer has almost 90k on it. do i have another week? or a month?
how long?
So you probably don't have anything to worry about for at least another ten days or so. :shades:
mine are < 1 year, 5 years, 6.5 years and 18.5 years.
i realize not everyone has the same priorities regarding the vehicles they buy.
mine are different that yours. doesn't make either one better or worse.
i am in favor of the government assistance for the automakers since it will at least create a softer landing for the general economy as it relates to auto industry contraction due to lower sales.
PS
Have we given GM any cash or are we waiting for the Chinese to print more money for US?
In GM news, I got nothing, except more pictures of the Caddy presidential limo:
link
Lawmakers push "clunker" plan to spur auto sales (Reuters)
It's sort of a back door loan to Detroit and I'd think hard about doing it with my minivan. Get a Vibe if I had to go D3.
Total U.S. sales plunged from 16.1 million units in 2007 to 13.2 million for 2008. Equally interesting -- and troubling, for Detroit -- was that not only did the pie get painfully smaller, the domestic automakers' portion, market share, once again lost ground.
According to data from Edmunds.com, the Detroit Three lost a collective total of 3.7 points of market share in 2008. Chrysler led the group, ceding 1.9 points of share (from 12.9 percent of the market in 2007 to 11 percent in 2008). GM lost 1.4 percent (from 23.8 percent in 2007 to 22.4 percent). Ford gave back 0.4 points of share (from 15.5 percent to 15.1 percent for 2008).
I know what your thinking PUNK! How many bullets are left? Did I shoot five or six? Well, do ya feel lucky PUNK?
Regards,
OW
The best analogy is this brush-fire tunred into a regular fire and was being fought. However the efforts to put out the fire have not worked, and the fire is continuing to grow - into a firestorm.
As people default on loans, and businesses go down, stocks drop, people spend less, more businesses fail, more loans are defaulted on, stocks drop more ... This is feeding on itself, and globally.
So until this economy somehow "turns", 10M in vehicle sales looks optimistic. If I ran an auto company, I'd set my normal production plans for a market of 8M, and work some OT if sales really are 10M.
Big 3 failure with loss of jobs there and cascading effect on suppliers, dealers and others would be devasting for already low consumer confidence. Bail out BIg 3, but demand extensive restructuring, especially GM and Chrysler. A tough and knowledgable business/car guy such as Penske perhaps would be a good czar to oversee overall bailout and restructuring. Will Obama do this?
He flew coach btw. :P
Corker flies coach to brave Michigan critics at Detroit auto show (Detroit News)
Organized restructuring is the only way...the rest is smoke and mirrors. Why not put Bernie Madoff as the Car Czar?
Give me a break. Insanity.
Regards,
OW
I hear that the guy who does those "Girls Gone Wild" videos is on board with this too.
Can it be true that without government bailouts our cars and dirty pictures will all be coming from China?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I have no problem with that, especially the latter. :shades:
Regards,
OW
Heh....heh
Most car magazines have these to attract men to the cars. If they go down, so will the car magazines :sick: