How does paying more unemployment or providing health care stimulate the economy?
Well, for starters for the most part people who get unemployment checks tend to very quickly put that money into the market buying things like food. The lower the income level that you give money to the more likely they are to spend it.
Health care - well it will employ more people in the health care industry. Of course this is one industry that isn't nearly as hard hit by the current recession.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Makes sense to me. You want to spend the money as wisely as possible. Bolstering production here is a losing proposition. I am still in awe of the factory in Brazil that Ford built. More power to the Brazilian people. They probably have not put years of useless studies in the way of the building either. Face it much of the TARP money we have not been given a clue as to where it will end up.
No decent link but it sounds like one GM-Brazil plant is laying off 1600 temps until March. Things might not be all that rosy there at the moment either.
Now that is NOT a terrible idea...the best thing to do would not be to just hand out money...we've been trying that and it hasn't worked.
I like the prepaid credit card idea too, but not for people who are already in debt. I think people in debt should not spend more. The government could go out and get info. on those behind on their mortgage or credit card payments, and the money would go towards paying down their debt. This would help the banks too and be less TARP $ needed.
For people who aren't behind on payments, yes the prepaid card that has to be spent is better, but not much. Why? Because I would just use that card to buy my groceries and gas, instead of spending money I earn. So I would have no net increase in spending. Whether you give me a check or prepaid card, I'll still save and spend the exact same amount.
I just don't think this stimulus bill is going to do much to get permanent jobs to the people in what they are trained to do. The few flagmen that will be needed for 2 years, on the few projects isn't going to do much. Probably many of these new stimulus jobs will go to firms that then hire illegal workers.
smr36: The best way to stimulate the economy would be to rehire laid off teachers, extend unemployment insurance, repair roads, bridges, provide health care for poor etc, etc, etc. In other word spend wisely on needed projects which the private sector is unable or unwilling to do.
We've already been doing those things for years...the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere," for example, was part of an earlier infrastructure package.
And the federal government already spends lots of money providing services to the poor.
I just don't think this stimulus bill is going to do much to get permanent jobs to the people in what they are trained to do.
I think you can count on that. I think the stimulus bill is shaping up to be a universal Health care bill. The jobs provided will be in a new bureaucracy that keeps track of every individuals health records. There will not be enough money in that $800 billion to do much but cover administration costs for the expenditures. It is government bloat like NEVER before.
The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”
Elderly Hardest Hit
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
Well I really hadn't heard much about the health-care issues in the bill; but that is disturbing if true. This may just be one more push for people to retire to Mexico or Costa Rica. I would like to retire to Hawaii, but the cost and issues of Big Brother are just getting ridiculous.
Anyway I say no more $ to government to waste, and acquire power. They need to decrease their involvement in the operations of the country and world, NOT increase them. I just saw this fine example today - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-02-08-hurricane-aid_N.htm
I thought GM and Chrysler were getting LOANS....not bail outs. Of course, if no one buys their vehicles then the 2/3 of the Big Three go bankrupt. Then we go from LOAN to Squat......and $38 billion disappears.
The problem is that the Treasury didn't do its work very well. It appears that it cannot get repaid on the loans to the D3. At present the Treasury loans, our money, is down the line in terms of subordination to other lenders.
The others get theirs first then Treasury gets our money back. Except that the others aren't going to be getting theirs for some time to come - if ever. That means that our money is even farther back.
$17 Billion gift to GM and Chrysler to keep them afloat for 90 days. But I doubt that any more will be forthcoming.
"France's biggest carmakers, PSA Peugeot Citroen and Renault, will be given $7.8 billion in loans from the French government after the companies vowed not to close plants or lay off workers in the country during the duration of the loans."
The best way to stimulate the economy would be to rehire laid off teachers, extend unemployment insurance, repair roads, bridges, provide health care for poor etc, etc, etc. In other word spend wisely on needed projects which the private sector is unable or unwilling to do.
How does paying more unemployment or providing health care stimulate the economy?
Well, the unemployed buy stuff, you know, food, clothes, payment for health care etc. The recipients of these expenditures now have money to buy more stuff and so it goes around stimulating the economy. People who don't have money or are afraid to spend it, don't buy stuff.
How does paying more unemployment or providing health care stimulate the economy?
So you believe that whether it is GM or the guy down the street who's been spending more than he makes, that if they run into trouble because they didn't save, that the people who have been playing by the rules, being conservative not overspending, then needs to supplement the people who partied the money away?? Is this the life lesson we are teaching? No matter what you do, or how stupid or arrogant you are, the government should protect you?
If you want to know the truth I say let the over-spenders suffer. Give the tax refunds to those who have been responsible. I promise that if you give me stimulus $, I'll buy stuff with it.
Is this the life lesson we are teaching? No matter what you do, or how stupid or arrogant you are, the government should protect you?
It is exactly what this Congress and President were elected on. Remember the lady interviewed the day Obama was elected. She was elated because he was going to pay her bills for her. So far it looks like Government is most beholden to the banks, Wall Street and the Insurance companies. They have gotten the bulk of the gravy. You and I that live within our means will be screwed over for sure. I think Costa Rica is looking better every day. I have friends that retired down there and only come back to renew their visa. Hawaii is somewhat retiree friendly. Lower property tax. No income tax on defined pension income.
LOL yeah, Geezer and Dingbat have nothing to do with that ideal :P
Government is beholden to banks and corporate special interests no matter who is in the oval office. Who do you think chooses who you are allowed to vote for?
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.... The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.... You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
I would hope the targets in the Feb. 17th update from GM and C carry the adjusted SAAR numbers. 10.5MM isn't going to happen unless Obama takes over US auto and gives 50% discounts!
Mike DiGiovanni, General Motors Corp.'s executive director of global market and industry analysis, said last week he expected Chinese auto sales could hit 10.7 million units in 2009, more than his estimate of 9.8 million unit sales in the U.S. this year. Autodata forecasts 2009 U.S. sales at 9.57 million.
Which means one thing. C11 isn't that far fetched an option any longer.
I have scanned the stimulus bill. I find more to worry about than gives me HOPE. The only thing I see is a deduction for interest on any new motor vehicle up to $49,500 and a tax deduction for the sales tax on that same vehicle. So it would help stimulate all vehicle sales. I found no mention of the domestic automakers.
I think the bail out got them exactly what they wanted, CEO's got their perks and now the american employees are gettin the boot. THANK YOU very much, guess thats why I own a TOYOTA.
I would hope the targets in the Feb. 17th update from GM and C carry the adjusted SAAR numbers. 10.5MM isn't going to happen unless Obama takes over US auto and gives 50% discounts!
Agree. As I've said before for numerous weeks, the financial system and economy is in far worse shape than most of you realize (I wish I had realized this in Sept. before losing big). Vehicle sales will be lucky to hold where they are.
We are not going to need all the manufacturers, plants and workers we have today. Again I say let the market decide who the weak are. If you want the D3 to continue, you and millions other can send your own money to help them; not mine or the majority of us who don't want to subsidize the D3's existence.
Separately, J.P. Morgan analyst Himanshu Patel said that if GM fails to win big concessions from bondholders and the United Auto Workers, the White House may be forced to seriously consider allowing a bankruptcy filing. Bankruptcy, Patel contends, would likely have less negative ramifications then it would have last year and would allow the automaker to more aggressively reduce its debt. "The damage to the enterprise of a GM bankruptcy today is notably less than it would have been a few months ago, largely because of public desensitization to a bankrupt carmaker," Patel said in a note to clients.
GM has repeatedly ruled out seeking bankruptcy protection, saying such a step would scare off consumers, cause its revenues to plummet and risk that a Chapter 11-style restructuring would end up as a liquidation of its assets.
But some critics of the U.S. bailout for the auto industry have said that the government could provide bankruptcy financing for GM or Chrysler and allow them to win deeper concessions from creditors and the union.
The U.S. Treasury has retained two law firms with extensive bankruptcy experience and the investment bank Rothschild to advise officials on the taxpayer-backed restructuring of GM and Chrysler. One of the scenarios those advisers will consider will be a government-assisted bankruptcy filing, a person with direct knowledge of the work has said.
Another of the other immediate priorities will be working out an agreement between other creditors and the government that would provide senior status to the public funding, a second person involved in the discussions said.
JP Morgan's Patel said a bankruptcy filing by GM would likely cut the automaker's debt by over 60 percent compared with just a 25 percent cut in indebtedness under an out-of-court restructuring.
Time to do the right thing. Everything is falling into place for the inevitable.
Having bought an off shore brand the last 2 times I doubt if I would go back to a D3, but what happened?
What happened? I'll tell you what happened.
Here is my experience and real life take on the Big 3:
Purchased 1st car with parental help financially when I was 16. I preferred to go with something brand new and budget was around 12 - 15K. This was 1994 and I decided that Chrysler Dodge were really pushing the "This is the New Dodge" this is the NEW factory headquarters, this is the new office headquarters approach well.
They did a good job of marketing that this was not the same old american filth your father and mother could warn you about. After all, it was the 90's and surely the Americans had figured out how to make a car run reliably, right? Seemed logical to a gullable 16 year old at least. :confuse: :sick:
Being as America is supposed to have technology figured out and be an advanced civilization, it's hard to believe that our vehicle production could be in third world status. They sold that they had changed, that they were not like before, that they were new and "improved." Therefore, I figured that buying American would lead to more bang for the buck (after all,less shipping fees, local materials, supplies, should all lead to more bang for my buck).
So this supposedly "new" American vehicle was in the shop every 3 to 4 months during the warranty for relatively minor things everytime, but not always.
1 st morning day after arrival at home (car wouldn't start) faulty 02 sensor and fuel pump?
40,000 mile head gaskets that needed replacement at guess what, 40,000 miles. 60,000 mile auto tranny, that needed replacement and rebuild at guess what, 60,000 miles. 36,001 mile or 3 year and one day Air Conditioner and Compressor, that needed replacement at guess what, literallly days after the warranty expired. Leaking gas tank faulty O-ring. Faulty parking break. Faulty Windshield and structure, cracked in half while parked, was not vandalized or hit or chipped; just poor workmanship material, design, and engineering. Lame gas mileage to performance ratio; underperformed. Rattles galore and got exponentially worse as the car aged. It was bad under warranty (leaking glue under the window trimmings, spewing everywhere, battery terminal corrosion, starter wire and cables corrsion everywhere, ate batteries up like crazy, faulty belts including the serpentine belt, faulty check engine light warnings, faulty dash and trim under windshield that got dislodged with time. Wind leakage through poorly designed and built window moldings/flashings/rubber trim/gaskets. Rattles galore more as vehicle added on miles.
However, once the Tranny died at just over 60K, we didn't keep the car long after. Once the alternator and electrical gremlins caused the car to be towed for the 4 time by necessity before hitting 65,500 miles, the vehicle was sold immediately thereafter.
I'm sure based on the exponential increase of costs to keep the car running over time, that not even Donal Trump would be in business today had he bought that vehicle that I did and tried to keep it running until this day. I've talked to other owner's of the same vehicle and they all had the same issues (all had faulty head gaskets and transmissions and AC's). Those are all expensive fixes.
I should have bought the extended warranty; but guess what, I can buy a Honda and get an implied and unwritten extended warranty at no extra cost!
It's hard to think of a part on the car that didn't go bad and need replacement.....
I suppose the aluminum wheels were ok, though only 14". My biggest gripe with the car is that it was obviously designed to be a short term temporary vehicle and should not have been sold legally as a car in the U.S. If Chrysler was being honest they would have sold them just like BIC razors, as TEMPORARY product (filth!).
Fraud I say, Fraud! :lemon:
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
18 Mar 58, Oakland Army Terminal and the gentleman at the money booth asked me what I was going to do with all my savings. I told him I was going to buy a new car and drive it home with my wife. He immediately closed his booth and the three of us were speeding to Crockett CA to buy a brand new 1957 Plymouth Belvedere 2 Dr Hdtp with a 301 and Torqueflite from Harris Neff Motors. (Money changer's son in law was giving up the DeSoto/Plymouth franchise to get the Rambler.)
I noticed the speedometer cable was making a little noise and decided to wait until I got home to lube it. The next day going up the Left Coast we had to have the passenger window regulater repaired at Santa Rosa.
The transmission blew at 15,000 miles as it wasn't the speedo cable causing the noise. At 25,000 the connecting rod scored the crankshaft.
There were other minor problems within the first 3,000 miles and 90 days, but Chrysler factory reps in the Terminal Sales Building in Portland were of no help. Their attitude was not caring or sympathetic. They couldn't care less!
Burying Chrysler Corp might have a few attending its last rites, but not me.
this is strange. 155 million workers and 159 million taxpayers. my thought is that a joint return is 2 taxpayers not one taxpayer. are the unemployed still considered workers? They almost all are taxpayers. 8% unemployment for 155M workers is 12,500,000 unemployed workers. 35% of all workers in gov't jobs puts gov't workers at 54,250,000 membership. Barry only got 66,000,000 votes. That would be the equivalent of the unemployed plus gov't workers, by coincidence.
in the end, the people who do not work to create a profit can control this country and have fought to do that. Barry never made a profit for anyone. Why the suprise that the gov bails out people who at least try to make a profit? Most of this country lives in the glass house w/r/t profit making so being against the bailout would be like throwing rocks from the glass house.
Not sure where you got all your numbers from. There are millions of US retirees that pay a pot load of taxes every year. Yes Barry got an overwhelming majority of the votes from people that pay little or no tax at all. They are all waiting for him to buy them a home and car with some spending money for a big screen TV.
Meanwhile there is nothing in the Stimulus bill for bailing out the Domestic auto industry. I would say they are on their own when the $17 billion Bush gave them runs out. Barry has bigger fish to fry. He has about half the states on life support all looking for a handout from the bill. Millions of homeowners upside down in a mortgage they should have never been given. Who really cares about the Domestic auto industry outside of the states that are impacted?
he bought it used with over 30k miles when he got it. he paid like 16k for it in '05 and it was an '03 1.8T. He said it has cost him $400 for every 3000 miles he has driven it. He likened it to driving a Porshe in performance and cost. It has over 70k miles now.
He hit a tire in the road with it and it was $6500 to fix. He had to foot $750 deductible and an insurance rate hike thereafter. That happened the day after he told me it weighed 3600 lbs and did 0-60 in 6 seconds. He loves the car but is really upset about the expenses it brings and his stopwatch is slow. He paid $750 to rent a G6 while the Jetta undercarriage was repaired over nearly 4 weeks. Another $300 for repairs and it would have been totaled by his ins co. I'm thinking $6800 car almost totaled by hitting a tire laying on its side in the center of the lane?
My Buick has its problems too. After 150k miles, the paint started to peel off. I had been offered $1800 trade for it just previously and found out that a high quality repaint was $3500. It was essentially totaled when the paint started peeling. Giving it an earl shibe paint job is like totaling it anyway. Then I lost 4th gear in '07. I'll turn 170k this week and it has never been to a repair shop since the prev owner gave it a new battery on the day he sold it to me in '04. Those 2 things are the worst two days in my auto owning life due to vehicle decay but since I'm still driving it, so far it has cost me a couple hundred for extra gas being a 3 speed. In 5 years and 81k miles I had to put some parts in it. rear air shocks, a MAF sensor, spark plugs, 4 tires, a starter motor, disc pads all around, front rotors, and one front caliper. All total about $950 in parts and some of my time. It comes out to $35 every 3k miles vs $400 for the Jetta. I could argue that the Buick was 2.3 times older (in miles) in the comparison. I also saved hundreds by putting in the brake pads and starter myself. He had all his work done at a VW dealer. This Buick was my worst GM car out of 11. The only one to ever break a tranny.
Dodge Charger late 70's model. Chrysler engines at that time hated cold damp weather. Thus living in northern NJ and upstate NY was 'interesting'. How interesting you ask? Glad you asked.
About this time of year in No NJ it can be 30-ish most of the time and damp. Starting up usually was not a problem. The problem was the carburator ( what the hell is that? ). Until it got good and warm it would take some time off ocassionally....like everytime I came to a stop light or stop sign in the first 20 min the engine would cough, sputter and die as the engine tried to start up again. Everywhere.
The most fun though was sitting at a stop light waiting to enter a 4 lane local highway with the engine laughing and shaking as it sat there. 'Watch what I do to you this time buddy'. I start up from the stop light with a car full of wife and kids and nearly all the time it would enter the intersection and decide to quit. 'BWWWWWaaaaaahhaaaaa, got ya there buddy'
Of course the light changes then. So sitting dead in the water in the middle of 60 mph traffic in both directions I had to do the following... ..grab the empty hardpack of cigarettes ( I don't smoke ) ..jump out of the car and open the hood [wife screaming] ..unspin the wing nut holding the air filter in place [ wife screaming AND kids crying] ..take off said air filter and jam the hard pack into the carburator [everybody screaming] ..run around and get back into the car and start it up... of course it laughingly did all the time [wife, kids and all passing motorists screaming] ..jump OUT of the car again [ME, wife, kids and all passing motorits and all blocked motorists screaming] ..take hardpack OUT of the carburator [ me, wife, kids, motorists and sirens screaming ] ..replace air filter and spin the wingnut back on, KICK the SOB car [ me, wife, kids, motorists for 5 miles around, sirens and now the car screaming ] ..close the hood and run back into the car. ..drive away like nothing happened.
Oh and Chrysler wants some sympathy. 'Take a dirt nap.'
The only new Chrysler product I ever owned was a 1974 Dodge extended van. It had a 318 with auto trans. I drove twice to and from Alaska. Then to Minnesota and on to New Mexico. It started to use a quart of oil every 500 miles from the time I started using Mobil One synthetic. It was the rage in Alaska to for easier starting in the Winter. I have not been a fan of synthetics since that experience. After we moved to NM the engine was starting to make noises with 107k miles on the VAN. It was never in the shop for warranty from the day I bought it new. I got the engine and transmission overhauled for $1700 in 1984. Drove it to my home in Lake Havasu and traded it in on a new Ford Bronco full size. Best I could squeeze on the trade was $1700. A lesson I will not forget. Though Chrysler has never been on my wishlist since. I cannot complain about that Van. Oh it was rusted through all along the bottom panels. MN salt was a killer.
Your Buick vs. Friend's Jetta Comparison is ridiculous! :confuse: :surprise:
Seriously!!!
I think you've just given Ford and GM more "comparison" commercial marketing ideas in how to skew a paid for advertisement to favor their products. They will pay people to go out and CRASH through their own fault reliable cars like Toyotas and Hondas, and include collision damage withing the "repair bill" total in order to get favorable comparisons to the maintenance and repair costs of their own vehicles.
Your Buick was dying because of it's own faulty parts. His Jetta required $400/3000 miles because he kept driving into stuff and crashing his own car due to his own fault.
Jettas handle well and have good brakes, no excuse to be hitting tires on the road! He should have swerved to avoid it, which is something you can do in a foreign car that handles well w/o losing control.
I've never heard of combining body work and paint shop costs with maintenance and/or repair costs before you suggest the idea in your post.
That would be like me driving my A3 into a concrete wall and saying Audi's cost too much to repair. I don't think anyone figures in repair costs due to crashes in their vehicle purchasing decisions. Crashes shouldn't happen, and if they do, they should be somebody elses fault, in which case it's not your problem, as long as you have un/underinsured insurance.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
if the jetta driver had an suv, they would have gone right over the tire without any damage. :P not sure if these loans are going to work out. the economy is really suffering, so there are not a lot of new car buyers out there. otoh, there are still some buyers out there.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
My sentiments precisely. Hardly a week goes by that you do not see some kind of debris on the freeway. Sometimes as big a couch. In an SUV you can see far enough ahead to safely avoid hitting things.
However that was a lame argument against owning a Jetta.
And those buyers are shrewed, clever, & knowledgeable, however, most are patiently waiting to buy today at the price the vehicle will be in a year from now, and why not?
After enduring this economy, car dealers should be prepared to significantly lower prices more than they have so far.
The above opinion reflects my observation of NW markets.
Your Buick vs. Friend's Jetta Comparison is ridiculous!
Seriously!!! I wasn't comparing my repairs with the accident damage. he told me it was $400/3k BEFORE he hit the tire in the road. Funny you should mention avoidance. The spot where the tire was didn't allow avoidance. There was a 10 inch curb to his left and he was in the left lane and was passing a slower car in the right lane. the tire was the best thing to hit. The Jetta had been thru 3 turbos and 3 mass air flow sensors in the near 75k miles since new and only 40-45k miles he had it.
you are correct. my boss is looking for a new vehicle to replace one that was written off. he is cross shopping and driving a hard bargain. need to rant a bit here. my mother's car needed some new tires. in an effort to support the local dealer, i asked them for a price on 4 tires. their number was higher than some others, but i figured it is close, lets go with the local D3 guy. when i got the bill, sales tax was not included and there was a host of additional charges, although not a lot of additional money. i like the malibu, but does anyone think i would ever buy one from that dealer? :sick: when i ask for a price form the ford dealer, i get THE price. i made the bad assumption that the family owned local D3 dealer was what i was used to from another local owned D3 dealer.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
My dad bought a Chrysler. A '96 Pewter LHS w/Mitsu 3.5 L 24 valve V6 from the widow of his golf buddy. He got it with 11000 miles for $11k in '01. It had everything, leather, sunroof. He went out and got an aftermarket warranty because it was 5 years old. He ran it up to only 45k miles from '01 to '08 and sold it to an old customer of his for $2500. It was in showroom condition and he raved about it. The guy who bought it keeps getting asked by his wife "why did that man give you that car?" In the 7 years he had it, my dad had a $1200 a/c repair with the warranty he bought so it only cost him $100. He sold it after buying a new '08 Pacifica fully loaded that he also loves. He complained about the 14 mpg city the Pacifica gets but finally drove it on longer trip and hit 24 mpg. He claims the 4 L V6 is a Mercedes engine in it. He is converted from GM to Chrysler.
my local dealer advertised Malibu for $14,900 new '09. I went down and drove one. Upon return they came out with $18,700. They added $2k because I wasn't turning in a current GM lease, they added $625 dest charge, and they added $1175 for a combination of the car being equipped with body side moldings which I definitely want, and some nonsense about differences in build dates. I could have avoided the whole trip there if I had recorded the commercial off tv and paused it to read the 12 lines of microprint by the asterisk that they flash for 1/5 of a second during the ad. Not a bad deal if I could get the bsm for a few hundred instead of $1175.
The question is which one will survive and which will go out of business? It was a gamble with either one. I do like the looks of the Pacifica. I rode in one and the engine was very noisy. If he wanted a Mercedes Engine he should have bought the GL320CDI and he would be getting closer to 30 MPG on the highway.
Advice, Only deal with Internet sales. Have the email in hand with the exact vehicle and the bottom line price. If they don't want to deal that way find a different dealer or brand.
Andy: I don't know if Americas Tire Co aka Discount Tires is established where you are, but out here on the Left Coast, they have made me a very satisfied customer. They are most courteous, competitive, & careful.
>There was a 10 inch curb to his left and he was in the left lane and was passing a slower car in the right lane. the tire was the best thing to hit.
and you forgot to mention that it was a curve too. Otherwise how come he did not see the tire on the road when he decided to pass? Or maybe he was watching the blonde in the car he was passing?
So, in other words, he STILL hasn't experienced quality then
He spent a lot of time hauling up and handing over 5 inch shells meant for Kamikazis in the middle of the night. 64 yrs later he still won't buy from them. Plenty won't buy GM over a 20 or 30 yrs ago breakdown. He is vastly outnumbered by them. You put 100 million cars on the road and you are going to have enemies.
Count me on the side of your grandfather. I won't buy from them either. My Grandpop was a WWII army veteran in the European theatre. He always favored Chevrolets which he consistently bought new since 1964 until he passed away last September.
I been Discount Tires customer for a long time with 0 issues. This days I buy my tires on tirerack and install it at local tire shop, it saves me a LOT of money
Funny thing...my paternal grandfather had 5 kids at the outbreak of WW2 and was not called to duty - but he never owned an import - always had Ford trucks and Chevy cars/vans. My maternal grandfather, who served in the Pacific, had several VWs and Toyotas (one a "Nova"), his choice, as company cars, but always had a Chrysler or GM as his personal car - his last Ford was around 1952.
I am not too worried about where a car comes from as long as it is a first world nation.
".....The Jetta had been thru 3 turbos and 3 mass air flow sensors in the near 75k miles since new and only 40-45k miles he had it."
Well, I guess we won't be hearing from him on this, seeing as how it's no longer ridiculous. All I know is I've helped push more dead Jettas off the road than I have Neons.
Comments
Well, for starters for the most part people who get unemployment checks tend to very quickly put that money into the market buying things like food. The lower the income level that you give money to the more likely they are to spend it.
Health care - well it will employ more people in the health care industry. Of course this is one industry that isn't nearly as hard hit by the current recession.
I like the prepaid credit card idea too, but not for people who are already in debt. I think people in debt should not spend more. The government could go out and get info. on those behind on their mortgage or credit card payments, and the money would go towards paying down their debt. This would help the banks too and be less TARP $ needed.
For people who aren't behind on payments, yes the prepaid card that has to be spent is better, but not much. Why? Because I would just use that card to buy my groceries and gas, instead of spending money I earn. So I would have no net increase in spending. Whether you give me a check or prepaid card, I'll still save and spend the exact same amount.
I just don't think this stimulus bill is going to do much to get permanent jobs to the people in what they are trained to do. The few flagmen that will be needed for 2 years, on the few projects isn't going to do much. Probably many of these new stimulus jobs will go to firms that then hire illegal workers.
We've already been doing those things for years...the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere," for example, was part of an earlier infrastructure package.
And the federal government already spends lots of money providing services to the poor.
I think you can count on that. I think the stimulus bill is shaping up to be a universal Health care bill. The jobs provided will be in a new bureaucracy that keeps track of every individuals health records. There will not be enough money in that $800 billion to do much but cover administration costs for the expenditures. It is government bloat like NEVER before.
The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”
Elderly Hardest Hit
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aL- zfDxfbwhzs
Where is AARP when you need them? Roads and Bridges, I knew we left something out of the Stimulus bill... :sick:
This may just be one more push for people to retire to Mexico or Costa Rica. I would like to retire to Hawaii, but the cost and issues of Big Brother are just getting ridiculous.
Anyway I say no more $ to government to waste, and acquire power. They need to decrease their involvement in the operations of the country and world, NOT increase them. I just saw this fine example today - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-02-08-hurricane-aid_N.htm
WheelMan
The others get theirs first then Treasury gets our money back. Except that the others aren't going to be getting theirs for some time to come - if ever. That means that our money is even farther back.
$17 Billion gift to GM and Chrysler to keep them afloat for 90 days. But I doubt that any more will be forthcoming.
France Gives Its Carmakers Loans (AutoObserver)
How does paying more unemployment or providing health care stimulate the economy?
Well, the unemployed buy stuff, you know, food, clothes, payment for health care etc. The recipients of these expenditures now have money to buy more stuff and so it goes around stimulating the economy. People who don't have money or are afraid to spend it, don't buy stuff.
So you believe that whether it is GM or the guy down the street who's been spending more than he makes, that if they run into trouble because they didn't save, that the people who have been playing by the rules, being conservative not overspending, then needs to supplement the people who partied the money away?? Is this the life lesson we are teaching? No matter what you do, or how stupid or arrogant you are, the government should protect you?
If you want to know the truth I say let the over-spenders suffer. Give the tax refunds to those who have been responsible. I promise that if you give me stimulus $, I'll buy stuff with it.
It is exactly what this Congress and President were elected on. Remember the lady interviewed the day Obama was elected. She was elated because he was going to pay her bills for her. So far it looks like Government is most beholden to the banks, Wall Street and the Insurance companies. They have gotten the bulk of the gravy. You and I that live within our means will be screwed over for sure. I think Costa Rica is looking better every day. I have friends that retired down there and only come back to renew their visa. Hawaii is somewhat retiree friendly. Lower property tax. No income tax on defined pension income.
Government is beholden to banks and corporate special interests no matter who is in the oval office. Who do you think chooses who you are allowed to vote for?
Things are heating up quite nicely.
Regards,
OW
Mike DiGiovanni, General Motors Corp.'s executive director of global market and industry analysis, said last week he expected Chinese auto sales could hit 10.7 million units in 2009, more than his estimate of 9.8 million unit sales in the U.S. this year. Autodata forecasts 2009 U.S. sales at 9.57 million.
Which means one thing. C11 isn't that far fetched an option any longer.
Regards,
OW
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:5:./temp/~c111bJwULs::
Regards,
OW
Agree. As I've said before for numerous weeks, the financial system and economy is in far worse shape than most of you realize (I wish I had realized this in Sept. before losing big). Vehicle sales will be lucky to hold where they are.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Geithners-blunt-assessment-risk-time/story- .aspx?guid=%7B39C3386A%2D3CD9%2D4FEF%2DA4A6%2DF832431E9E69%7D
We are not going to need all the manufacturers, plants and workers we have today. Again I say let the market decide who the weak are. If you want the D3 to continue, you and millions other can send your own money to help them; not mine or the majority of us who don't want to subsidize the D3's existence.
Bankruptcy, Patel contends, would likely have less negative ramifications then it would have last year and would allow the automaker to more aggressively reduce its debt.
"The damage to the enterprise of a GM bankruptcy today is notably less than it would have been a few months ago, largely because of public desensitization to a bankrupt carmaker," Patel said in a note to clients.
GM has repeatedly ruled out seeking bankruptcy protection, saying such a step would scare off consumers, cause its revenues to plummet and risk that a Chapter 11-style restructuring would end up as a liquidation of its assets.
But some critics of the U.S. bailout for the auto industry have said that the government could provide bankruptcy financing for GM or Chrysler and allow them to win deeper concessions from creditors and the union.
The U.S. Treasury has retained two law firms with extensive bankruptcy experience and the investment bank Rothschild to advise officials on the taxpayer-backed restructuring of GM and Chrysler. One of the scenarios those advisers will consider will be a government-assisted bankruptcy filing, a person with direct knowledge of the work has said.
Another of the other immediate priorities will be working out an agreement between other creditors and the government that would provide senior status to the public funding, a second person involved in the discussions said.
JP Morgan's Patel said a bankruptcy filing by GM would likely cut the automaker's debt by over 60 percent compared with just a 25 percent cut in indebtedness under an out-of-court restructuring.
Time to do the right thing. Everything is falling into place for the inevitable.
Regards,
OW
What happened? I'll tell you what happened.
Here is my experience and real life take on the Big 3:
Purchased 1st car with parental help financially when I was 16. I preferred to go with something brand new and budget was around 12 - 15K. This was 1994 and I decided that Chrysler Dodge were really pushing the "This is the New Dodge" this is the NEW factory headquarters, this is the new office headquarters approach well.
They did a good job of marketing that this was not the same old american filth your father and mother could warn you about. After all, it was the 90's and surely the Americans had figured out how to make a car run reliably, right? Seemed logical to a gullable 16 year old at least. :confuse: :sick:
Being as America is supposed to have technology figured out and be an advanced civilization, it's hard to believe that our vehicle production could be in third world status. They sold that they had changed, that they were not like before, that they were new and "improved." Therefore, I figured that buying American would lead to more bang for the buck (after all,less shipping fees, local materials, supplies, should all lead to more bang for my buck).
So this supposedly "new" American vehicle was in the shop every 3 to 4 months during the warranty for relatively minor things everytime, but not always.
1 st morning day after arrival at home (car wouldn't start) faulty 02 sensor and fuel pump?
40,000 mile head gaskets that needed replacement at guess what, 40,000 miles.
60,000 mile auto tranny, that needed replacement and rebuild at guess what, 60,000 miles.
36,001 mile or 3 year and one day Air Conditioner and Compressor, that needed replacement at guess what, literallly days after the warranty expired.
Leaking gas tank faulty O-ring.
Faulty parking break.
Faulty Windshield and structure, cracked in half while parked, was not vandalized or hit or chipped; just poor workmanship material, design, and engineering.
Lame gas mileage to performance ratio; underperformed.
Rattles galore and got exponentially worse as the car aged.
It was bad under warranty (leaking glue under the window trimmings, spewing everywhere, battery terminal corrosion, starter wire and cables corrsion everywhere, ate batteries up like crazy, faulty belts including the serpentine belt, faulty check engine light warnings, faulty dash and trim under windshield that got dislodged with time. Wind leakage through poorly designed and built window moldings/flashings/rubber trim/gaskets. Rattles galore more as vehicle added on miles.
However, once the Tranny died at just over 60K, we didn't keep the car long after. Once the alternator and electrical gremlins caused the car to be towed for the 4 time by necessity before hitting 65,500 miles, the vehicle was sold immediately thereafter.
I'm sure based on the exponential increase of costs to keep the car running over time, that not even Donal Trump would be in business today had he bought that vehicle that I did and tried to keep it running until this day. I've talked to other owner's of the same vehicle and they all had the same issues (all had faulty head gaskets and transmissions and AC's). Those are all expensive fixes.
I should have bought the extended warranty; but guess what, I can buy a Honda and get an implied and unwritten extended warranty at no extra cost!
It's hard to think of a part on the car that didn't go bad and need replacement.....
I suppose the aluminum wheels were ok, though only 14". My biggest gripe with the car is that it was obviously designed to be a short term temporary vehicle and should not have been sold legally as a car in the U.S. If Chrysler was being honest they would have sold them just like BIC razors, as TEMPORARY product (filth!).
Fraud I say, Fraud! :lemon:
Is your neighbor driving 300 miles a year? If so, I'd say 400 dollars on a 1998 Jetta ain't so bad!
Certainly not as bad as the $5,000 or so I spent getting a Dodge to get to 65,000 miles.
I noticed the speedometer cable was making a little noise and decided to wait until I got home to lube it. The next day going up the Left Coast we had to have the passenger window regulater repaired at Santa Rosa.
The transmission blew at 15,000 miles as it wasn't the speedo cable causing the noise. At 25,000 the connecting rod scored the crankshaft.
There were other minor problems within the first 3,000 miles and 90 days, but Chrysler factory reps in the Terminal Sales Building in Portland were of no help. Their attitude was not caring or sympathetic. They couldn't care less!
Burying Chrysler Corp might have a few attending its last rites, but not me.
in the end, the people who do not work to create a profit can control this country and have fought to do that. Barry never made a profit for anyone. Why the suprise that the gov bails out people who at least try to make a profit? Most of this country lives in the glass house w/r/t profit making so being against the bailout would be like throwing rocks from the glass house.
Meanwhile there is nothing in the Stimulus bill for bailing out the Domestic auto industry. I would say they are on their own when the $17 billion Bush gave them runs out. Barry has bigger fish to fry. He has about half the states on life support all looking for a handout from the bill. Millions of homeowners upside down in a mortgage they should have never been given. Who really cares about the Domestic auto industry outside of the states that are impacted?
He hit a tire in the road with it and it was $6500 to fix. He had to foot $750 deductible and an insurance rate hike thereafter. That happened the day after he told me it weighed 3600 lbs and did 0-60 in 6 seconds. He loves the car but is really upset about the expenses it brings and his stopwatch is slow. He paid $750 to rent a G6 while the Jetta undercarriage was repaired over nearly 4 weeks. Another $300 for repairs and it would have been totaled by his ins co. I'm thinking $6800 car almost totaled by hitting a tire laying on its side in the center of the lane?
My Buick has its problems too. After 150k miles, the paint started to peel off. I had been offered $1800 trade for it just previously and found out that a high quality repaint was $3500. It was essentially totaled when the paint started peeling. Giving it an earl shibe paint job is like totaling it anyway. Then I lost 4th gear in '07. I'll turn 170k this week and it has never been to a repair shop since the prev owner gave it a new battery on the day he sold it to me in '04. Those 2 things are the worst two days in my auto owning life due to vehicle decay but since I'm still driving it, so far it has cost me a couple hundred for extra gas being a 3 speed. In 5 years and 81k miles I had to put some parts in it. rear air shocks, a MAF sensor, spark plugs, 4 tires, a starter motor, disc pads all around, front rotors, and one front caliper. All total about $950 in parts and some of my time. It comes out to $35 every 3k miles vs $400 for the Jetta. I could argue that the Buick was 2.3 times older (in miles) in the comparison. I also saved hundreds by putting in the brake pads and starter myself. He had all his work done at a VW dealer. This Buick was my worst GM car out of 11. The only one to ever break a tranny.
About this time of year in No NJ it can be 30-ish most of the time and damp. Starting up usually was not a problem. The problem was the carburator ( what the hell is that? ). Until it got good and warm it would take some time off ocassionally....like everytime I came to a stop light or stop sign in the first 20 min the engine would cough, sputter and die as the engine tried to start up again. Everywhere.
The most fun though was sitting at a stop light waiting to enter a 4 lane local highway with the engine laughing and shaking as it sat there. 'Watch what I do to you this time buddy'. I start up from the stop light with a car full of wife and kids and nearly all the time it would enter the intersection and decide to quit. 'BWWWWWaaaaaahhaaaaa, got ya there buddy'
Of course the light changes then. So sitting dead in the water in the middle of 60 mph traffic in both directions I had to do the following...
..grab the empty hardpack of cigarettes ( I don't smoke )
..jump out of the car and open the hood [wife screaming]
..unspin the wing nut holding the air filter in place [ wife screaming AND kids crying]
..take off said air filter and jam the hard pack into the carburator [everybody screaming]
..run around and get back into the car and start it up... of course it laughingly did all the time [wife, kids and all passing motorists screaming]
..jump OUT of the car again [ME, wife, kids and all passing motorits and all blocked motorists screaming]
..take hardpack OUT of the carburator [ me, wife, kids, motorists and sirens screaming ]
..replace air filter and spin the wingnut back on, KICK the SOB car [ me, wife, kids, motorists for 5 miles around, sirens and now the car screaming ]
..close the hood and run back into the car.
..drive away like nothing happened.
Oh and Chrysler wants some sympathy. 'Take a dirt nap.'
Seriously!!!
I think you've just given Ford and GM more "comparison" commercial marketing ideas in how to skew a paid for advertisement to favor their products. They will pay people to go out and CRASH through their own fault reliable cars like Toyotas and Hondas, and include collision damage withing the "repair bill" total in order to get favorable comparisons to the maintenance and repair costs of their own vehicles.
Your Buick was dying because of it's own faulty parts.
His Jetta required $400/3000 miles because he kept driving into stuff and crashing his own car due to his own fault.
Jettas handle well and have good brakes, no excuse to be hitting tires on the road! He should have swerved to avoid it, which is something you can do in a foreign car that handles well w/o losing control.
I've never heard of combining body work and paint shop costs with maintenance and/or repair costs before you suggest the idea in your post.
That would be like me driving my A3 into a concrete wall and saying Audi's cost too much to repair. I don't think anyone figures in repair costs due to crashes in their vehicle purchasing decisions. Crashes shouldn't happen, and if they do, they should be somebody elses fault, in which case it's not your problem, as long as you have un/underinsured insurance.
not sure if these loans are going to work out. the economy is really suffering, so there are not a lot of new car buyers out there.
otoh, there are still some buyers out there.
However that was a lame argument against owning a Jetta.
And those buyers are shrewed, clever, & knowledgeable, however, most are patiently waiting to buy today at the price the vehicle will be in a year from now, and why not?
After enduring this economy, car dealers should be prepared to significantly lower prices more than they have so far.
The above opinion reflects my observation of NW markets.
Seriously!!!
I wasn't comparing my repairs with the accident damage. he told me it was $400/3k BEFORE he hit the tire in the road. Funny you should mention avoidance. The spot where the tire was didn't allow avoidance. There was a 10 inch curb to his left and he was in the left lane and was passing a slower car in the right lane. the tire was the best thing to hit.
The Jetta had been thru 3 turbos and 3 mass air flow sensors in the near 75k miles since new and only 40-45k miles he had it.
my boss is looking for a new vehicle to replace one that was written off.
he is cross shopping and driving a hard bargain.
need to rant a bit here.
my mother's car needed some new tires.
in an effort to support the local dealer, i asked them for a price on 4 tires.
their number was higher than some others, but i figured it is close, lets go with the local D3 guy.
when i got the bill, sales tax was not included and there was a host of additional charges, although not a lot of additional money.
i like the malibu, but does anyone think i would ever buy one from that dealer? :sick:
when i ask for a price form the ford dealer, i get THE price.
i made the bad assumption that the family owned local D3 dealer was what i was used to from another local owned D3 dealer.
The question is which one will survive and which will go out of business? It was a gamble with either one. I do like the looks of the Pacifica. I rode in one and the engine was very noisy. If he wanted a Mercedes Engine he should have bought the GL320CDI and he would be getting closer to 30 MPG on the highway.
and you forgot to mention that it was a curve too. Otherwise how come he did not see the tire on the road when he decided to pass? Or maybe he was watching the blonde in the car he was passing?
So, in other words, he STILL hasn't experienced quality then......
He spent a lot of time hauling up and handing over 5 inch shells meant for Kamikazis in the middle of the night. 64 yrs later he still won't buy from them. Plenty won't buy GM over a 20 or 30 yrs ago breakdown. He is vastly outnumbered by them. You put 100 million cars on the road and you are going to have enemies.
I am not too worried about where a car comes from as long as it is a first world nation.
Well, I guess we won't be hearing from him on this, seeing as how it's no longer ridiculous. All I know is I've helped push more dead Jettas off the road than I have Neons.
Man, AMEN to that, cooter