Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Buying a Car During the Credit Crunch
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Otherwise, they'd go out of business... and, so would their dealers..
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With Gm you would probably get 0 a.p.r. financing and huge discounts if you get an 08 model suburban. Big suvs like that are becoming the station wagons of the 21st century. And this is coming from someone like me who may buy an suv. I live in Illinois so owning suvs are still for the most part normal with the winters we have. But I will not buy a full size like an Armada or Suburban; the suburban is great on the highway, but city or suburban driving it gets a lot less gas mileage and is cumbersome to drive.
Why do you need a vehicle of that size? Unless you have a really large family that constantly uses that space I think it's unecessary to buy one. A minivan has enough space for you and great storage, I personally like them better than crossover suvs. I really think their is a lot less of a stigma driving one now. Maybe even a midsize suv would be good for you because a lot of them have great ground clearance for driving in the winter. Also, you can always rent one on those large suvs for family trips when you may need the utility and space.
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081010_Elmer_Smith__Failed_execs_g- et_the_lollipop__laid-off_workers_get_the_stick.html
Grrr!! yeah, so good they are that they make such a mess of things! :mad:
You have to understand that credit score is only a part of the equation.
Consumers have been told that credit score is everything and it isn't.
Credit history is important(You can have an 800 score w/ a $500 limit credit card)
Debt to income has become the real bellweather for most lenders.
Also, how much you are borrowing, what the LTV is.
Are you trying to bury some inequity?
A lot of banks are tying loan values to less optimistic benchmarks like Black book instead of the overly optimistic KBB.
Are you trying to do $0 down?
Lenders like to see people putting money down now.
Given your long history (1 post) with this forum I trust you without question. :P
On the other hand, a company that uses bogus comments on a website to roll out their new business is probably a scam. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"Many of our citizens have serious concerns about their retirement accounts, their investments, and their economic well-being."
Really? You don't think it is most of our citizens yet?
"Here's what the American people need to know: that the United States government is acting"
Yeah, but have you not figured out that we're beginning to wonder what you are acting like? I mean, do you really think that we think you know what you're doing?
"we will continue to act to resolve this crisis and restore stability to our markets."
You do understand that we're a little skeptical at this point, right? Perhaps you meant to say that you will continue to act like you are resolving this crisis and restoring stability by blaming each other for causing this mess. Is that it?
"The fundamental problem is this: As the housing market has declined, banks holding assets related to home mortgages have suffered serious losses."
You don't think that a more fundamental problem is that those banks loaned money to folks who could not pay it back, and that more and more folks stepped up to take those loans that they could not afford?
"As a result of these losses, many banks lack the capital or the confidence in each other to make new loans. In turn, our system of credit has frozen, which is keeping American businesses from financing their daily transactions -- and creating uncertainty throughout our economy. "
Ok, but did anyone ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it might not be such a good idea to have an economy that is primarily dependent on consumerism and almost entirely dependent on credit? Any uncertainty at all on that?
"The federal government has a comprehensive strategy and the tools necessary to address the challenges in our economy."
Wonderful, we hope it is more comprehensive than the strategy that got us into this mess.
"Here are the problems we face and the steps we are taking:
First, key markets are not functioning because there's a lack of liquidity"
No sh@#, they gave all the real money away and started trading paper that just looked like money. I thought that was illegal.
"So the Federal Reserve has injected hundreds of billions of dollars into the system."
Is that the comprehensive strategy? Throw more money into the black hole?
"The Fed has joined with central banks around the world to coordinate a cut in interest rates. This rate cut will allow banks to borrow money more affordably"
So, you want to make it easier to borrow money? Maybe you could explain how part of the problem becomes part of the solution.
"and it should help free up additional credit necessary to create jobs, and finance college educations, and help American families meet their daily needs."
Mr. President, you started to lose me here. The part about jobs and college at least sounds good, but you don't think, even just a little bit, that folks borrowing money to meet their daily needs might not be such a good idea, and that it is yet again just part of the problem and really shouldn't be part of the solution?
"Second, some Americans are concerned about whether their money is safe."
Again Mr. President, I really think it is most, quite possibly even all.
"Thirdly, we are concerned that some investors could take advantage of the crisis to illegally manipulate the stock market. So the Securities and Exchange Commission has launched rigorous enforcement actions to detect fraud and manipulation in the market."
That's great! We were beginning to wonder when you would notice. Now, any plans on the fraud and manipulation that has already happened? I'd be interested in getting that $500k back that covered that AIG trip. I thought they were broke when we gave them that $85 billion. Do you think there might have been a little fraud involved in selling some of those mortgage backed securities that were basically worthless? C'mon, surely at least one person in this knew they were trading vapor. Oh, and you know we're still upset over the oil thing earlier this year, so you might suggest a few of those bulldogs take a look at that too.
Sorry, I got a little excited there. Let's move on.
"Fourth, the decline in the housing market has left many Americans struggling to meet their mortgages and are concerned about losing their homes."
Mr. President, with all due respect, I think you're a bit off on this one. It ain't the decline in the housing market that caused this. They took a loan that they couldn't afford to repay. The only decline that played a part here was a decline in sound judgement.
"My administration has launched two initiatives to help responsible borrowers keep their homes."
Uhhh, maybe you could explain why responsible borrowers would need help keeping their homes. Sure, losing one's home is a horrible thing to go through, but isn't it irresponsible borrowers that are facing that? I don't mean to sound cold, but if they can't pay their loan, then foreclosure is a very real possibility. I hope some of them can get their mess cleaned up, and I don't mind so much helping them out in that process, but there will be some that just can't be resolved any other way.
"With these actions to help to prevent foreclosures, we're addressing a key problem in the housing market: The supply of homes now exceeds demand."
Isn't it the preferred order of things that housing supply exceeds demand? I'm no expert, but wouldn't the opposite mean that their would be no available houses?
"And as a result, home values have declined."
That's not a problem. That is a solution.
"Fifth, we've seen that problems in the financial system are not isolated to the United States. They're also affecting other nations around the globe. So we're working closely with partners around the world to ensure that our actions are coordinated and effective. Tomorrow, I'll meet with the finance ministers from our partners in the G7 and the heads of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank. Secretary Paulson will also meet with finance ministers from the world's 20 leading economies. Through these efforts, the world is sending an unmistakable signal: We're in this together, and we'll come through this together."
Well, I guess misery loves company.
"And finally, American businesses and consumers are struggling to obtain credit"
I'm still confused. Are you still suggesting that credit should be easier to get?
"because banks do not have sufficient capital to make loans"
Like I said before, no sh@#.
So, that is the comprehensive plan. Oh, and did you actually read that law that got passed so quickly? There's a bit more in it than just a "rescue" plan.
"Seven hundred billion dollars is a significant amount of money."
Naw, really? And you really want to give it to the idiots that already gave away all their own money?
"The plan we are executing is aggressive. It is the right plan. It will take time to have its full impact. It is flexible enough to adapt as the situation changes. And it is big enough to work."
We'll see.
"The federal government will continue to take the actions necessary to restore stability to our financial markets and growth to our economy. We have an outstanding economic team carrying out this effort, led by Secretary of the Treasury Hank Paulson, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, SEC Chairman Chris Cox, and FDIC Chair Sheila Bair. I thank them and their dedicated teams for their service during this important moment in our country's history."
You understand our reluctance to express our gratitude just yet, right?
"Our economy is innovative, industrious and resilient because the American people who make up our economy are innovative, industrious and resilient."
So, why to this point have you not asked us to employ our innovation, industriousness, and resilience, and gotten out of the way, and let us take care of this? Do you really believe in us? I can appreciate that you don't want any of us to get hurt, but we've been through tough times before. We have pulled through them every time. The government has been there with us through those times, but this "just let us take care of it" thing is a little hard to swallow. I'm just not getting why you consitently sound like we should just sit back, relax, and let the government fix it, and with our money no less. We sincerely do appreciate your help, but we can handle more than you think we can. I know we can be greedy and selfish, but we also have an amazing tendency to pull together when we need to. We can be pretty brutal to those that screw up, not because we're heartless, just firm and resolved. Capitalism has served us well for a long time whether it had a more conservative or liberal pulse, but it is just making it more difficult for our economy to be innovative, industrious, and resilient with the government jumping on it at every turn. Really, appreciate it, but you might consider taking a beat or two and letting the economy actually work. Perhaps you could use your time working on revising any policies that fostered the environment that got us to this point.
We just might surprise you. And don't worry, we will actually start shopping again eventually.
May God bless you as well.
It makes me sick :sick:
GP
LOL!!!! :surprise:
I am with you on this one farmer
:lemon:
GP
MATTANDI,
Completely hysterical
I mean have to cut make sacrifices to make sure my mortgage. Sacrifices I am making are 1) Can't go out to eat everyweek with my wife. 2) satying with my old vehicle. 3) I kept my windows open this summer instead of running the central air. 4) have to pack a lunch everyday instead of ordering delivery. 5) Instead of dry cleaning I have to break out the old ironing board. 6) This winter it looks like we will have to break out the blankets in the cedar closet to stay warm.
I am sure I am not the only one... just felt like I needed to rant a little
gP
It's half serious half tongue in cheek. The whole things is just FUBAR at this point. I am certain that I am not alone in having very little confidence that anyone really has a good handle on this, especially the gurus and politicians.
Hey, there ain't nothing wrong with a bag lunch.
That's the problem with the recently poor, no experience. We regular poor people go to the Salvation Army Thrift Store.
Find one located close to an affluent area. All the young trophy wives donate their deceased husbands expensive suits right after the funeral to make room for the pool boy.
Once bought a Brooks Brothers suit there for $20. :shades:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"
listened to your remarks on the economy on Friday with great interest. I appreciate your concern, but I do have just a few questions. I'd like to ask for a little more information and clarification on some of the points you mentioned. I hope you don't mind if I add a few of my own thoughts. The quotes are directly from your comments. "
It was worse that that really. After a capitulation sell off we got a capitulation rally until 10:30 est when our fearless leader spoke.Whamo test of
lows. Same reprise of last weeks speech. No meat. It will be tough until it gets better.Tyvm Mssr. Lame Duck. And your pupose in speaking was exactly what. The calm voice soothes the savage beast. Shamed by our politcians.
Here is Japan there is a lot of interest in how the US political leadership is going to handle the crisis, especially since now it seems that after rapping Japan on the knuckles in the 1990s for not taking the "bitter medicine" (after Japanese banks went bust following the real estate / stock market crash), US is doing exactly what it was telling Japan not to do.
The situation (as seen from here) seems to be :
1. US Govt needs to use taxpayer money to bail out the finanical institutions (already happening, but may need more than 700 Bn USD)
2. But the US - already the world's biggest debtor - has no money in the safe to do this
3. Therefore this "bailing out money" must come from tax increases (i.e. tax payer's pocket)
4. But this is an election year, with both candidates competing on who can give away even more - so tax increases are out of question
5. That means US needs to issue more debt.
6. Who is going to buy this debt? Apparently Paulson putting the gun on Japan and China to shell out (or the whole world goes down)
7. Japanese politician worried how to explain to the Japanese tax payer why he needs to bail out the fat cats (NO ONE in Japan gets paid anything like an average investment banker in the US, forget the tens of millions that go to the masters of the universe)
Am looking for some comfortable caves just outside Tokyo, and stocking water + rice.
"That's the problem with the recently poor, no experience. We regular poor people go to the Salvation Army Thrift Store
"
Verily I can not disagree. But it's the mind set sir, the mindset. When they say screw the pestisides, they're cheap . Lo be those that raise organics. But I'm getting ahead of the curve here. Carry on.
You must have more money than me oldfarmer. Is Brooks Brothers an expensive line of suits... or just hand me downs from one brother to the next? :sick:
Not as expensive as your Armanis but I'd have to sell one of my vehicles to buy one new. :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well forget about buying one new then. Any suit that won't last long enough to get "married and buried" in isn't worth it to me. :sick: My truck just turned 24 and it's just getting broken in.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
What kind of truck do you have, Oldfarmer? My granddad's old '85 Silverado, which I still have, just turned 24 model years old too. He bought it in the summer of '85 though. It's getting a bit rough though...got broken in ages ago. Now it's just sort of broken! :sick:
I sent AIG an email telling them what I thought of their trip. :mad: I was surprised that they replied:
"We received your e-mail about an issue that was raised in a U.S. Congressional hearing held on October 7. In the hearing, a business event held by an AIG subsidiary was mischaracterized as an “Executive Retreat.” The story was reported widely in the press. The story isn't accurate.
The event in question was held by AIG’s U.S. life insurance subsidiary for independent life insurance agents—not for AIG employees—who were the top sales producers for the company. The vast majority of the 100 attendees were independent business people and their guests, not AIG employees. In fact, only 10 of the attendees were AIG employees who were there to represent their company. Not one corporate executive from AIG headquarters attended.
We understand that our company is now facing very different challenges, and that we owe our employees and the American public new standards and approaches. We are reevaluating the costs of all aspects of our operation in light of the new circumstances in which we are operating.
AIG is focused on doing what is necessary to repay the Fed loan and emerge as a healthy insurer. Meanwhile, our businesses are strong and well-capitalized, and continue to serve the needs of our policyholders.
A letter from AIG Chairman and CEO Edward M. Liddy to U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson about the issue is attached for your reference.
Thank you."
I didn't open the attached Liddy letter. I thought it might have a virus.
"We didn't spend the money on executives, we spent it on insurance agents."
That makes me feel so much better. :sick:
Meanwhile, our businesses are strong and well-capitalized, and continue to serve the needs of our policyholders
:confuse: Didn't they ask for and receive an additional $37 billion?
That's true of mine too. It's a F-150. The beauty of driving an old junker is no matter what happens to it you don't get upset.
However, if I tried to trade it for a nice suit I'd come away without pants.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That wouldn't bother us much but in some areas of the country a 700 score is rare!
On the PT Cruiser - there was the same thing for the first couple of years on the Odyssey (well, the generation 2 Odyssey - not the one with four swinging doors). I don't mind paying MSRP if that's what the market says but ADM really bothers me. (Well, it doesn't bother me in theory but I won't be the one to pay it.) When I went looking in late 01 I could either get one right away for $3K ADM or wait a few months for MSRP. I waited a few months. Funny thing. The dealership I put the order in with actually has two dealerships and they'd look around to match orders with delivery to try to speed up the process. They call to say they have a different color but with the same interior. I told them we could wait. For one thing my wife really wanted the one color. When I say that they try to convince me otherwise when i say "Well, right this minute my wife is in labor (which was true) so I'm not buying one way or another in the next few days."
Oh, and my older brother is one of those folks that waited on line to pay MSRP for a PT Cruiser. He still has it.
"A Brooks Brother suit will still be in style 10 years after you buy it. An Armani suit might be out of fashion by the time you get home with it from the store. " Hear , hear but those in the know buy at their semi annual sales when they are half off. It's a NE name old, so those to the west know not. "
Regarding AIG, The goverment will actually end up making a profit on them. Asset rich but with out the common sense God gave a squirrel, they ventured beyond insurance to mortgage derivatives. The US govt will be paid off early from asset sales and earn 11% interest in the interim . Why did they get bailed out ? You don't want to know the trillions they were counter party to on their derivatives. As to their executives and their spa weekend. RB's all. Think rodent and iiligitimate children.
So yeah, if I were head of AIG, I'd certainly keep the independents (especially the top sellers!) happy. They're part of the company's efforts to survive the current financial turmoil.
I imagine someone somewhere has already thought of that. Maybe not in those exact terms, but along those lines. They have got to shift the metal somehow.
It was a boneheaded move on their part.
It was hubris. The explanation was hubris on top of hubris.
A little humility, perhaps even repentance, on AIG's part would go along way in changing my attitude towards them. I realize that may be asking for too much.
The amount of CDS's is stupid..... $62 Trillion!!!!!! These are based on only $2 Trillion worth of mortgage backed securities. IOW 30 times the value of the actual underlying securities.
But theoretically it doesn't matter... :surprise: . Why? Because the CDS's are essentially just bets between individuals on what is going to happen in the future.
The former CEO explained it thus....it's like you took out a $350,000 fire insurance policy on your house to protect yourself. But then 30 of your neighbors also took out a policy on your house. Obviously the insurance company(s) don't want your house to burn down since they'd have to pay the claim....but your neighbors are another question, they wouldn't mind at all if your house burned down.
But because it's a bet between individuals it doesn't really matter what happens in the greater picture because if the house doesn't burn down then the 'Pass Line bettors', the insurers, get paid a premium from the 'wrong' bettors. If the house does burn down then you and the 30 other 'wrong bettors' each get $350,000 from the insurers. But in the end the money paid and the the money received should cancel each other out if the premiums have been priced correctly. Thus for the greater economy there is no effect.
$62 Trillion is scary but not the end of the world. BTW the $700 Billion Rescue package now is $2.1 Trillion as of yesterday.
How did we get into this mess? The following article today in the Washington Post sheds a lot of light into this dark corner.
WP: What Went Wrong
First they are perfectly legal. The biggest proponents originally were Alan Greenspan and Ben Rubin during the Clinton Administration. At the time the head of the Commodities Futures Exch wanted to have them regulated but Greenspan and Rubin killed that idea saying that 'the free market is the best regulator'.
" The founder and former CEO of Vangauard Funds explained the little-understood CDS's that has caused so much turmoil.
The amount of CDS's is stupid..... $62 Trillion!!!!!! These are based on only $2 Trillion worth of mortgage backed securities. IOW 30 times the value of the actual underlying securities. "
I knew we could agree. Not merely stupid but sick. CDS's should be abolished. Essentially it boils down to a way to prosper by your competitor going bankrupt. In reality it is a wrong instrument that has been instrumental in the financial strife of 2008. My analogy is as such, I buy you an insurance policy on your neighbor with you named as beneficiary and send you home with a fifth of Jack Daniels and a loaded '38 to ponder what your best course of options might be. Wrong , wrong, wrong. make them illegal. Wall St. had quite alot of fun earlier with their rumor mongering that so & so was in trouble or xyz was insolvent. Shameful.
The Sandman
Dealer might throw something in,like floor mats.
If that's the case he should buy a couple of Nissans. Their floor mats are like a $180 extra.
Those must be REALLY good floor mats.
Stay away from Mitsubishi, they give the mats for free.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I used to think the same thing. Recently though I read an article where a car salesman said that the beginning of the month was better.
The rationale behind this is that since everybody has heard about the end of the month deals there are plenty of customers in the store at that time. The salesman has his pick of many clients. At the beginning of the month the store is empty and this makes the salesman desperate to make a sale. Thus he/she will deal more at that time with the few customers available.
Of course the salesman in the article may have been a lying so-and-so. You decide. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible