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GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50
edited March 2014 in Volkswagen
Are there any GTI owners out there?

Well, I recently purchased a 1997 2.0L GTI
for about $15,500. What do you think?

I would like to hear some comments on this car
from owners or anyone else who has interest in
this hothatch.

Great features about this hatchback:
1)Handling (very fun to drive)
3)Speedy car and stable at 80+ mph
4)Exterior/interior styling
5)Great warranties
6)Sips fuel
7)Looks small from outside, very roomy inside

For cars in this class and price range the 2.0L
GTI is a great buy for those who want more than
just practicality and reliability. The GTI VR6
I consider to be beyond this class and price range
because it hovers around $20,000. Now for that
amount of money there are many more cars out there
to consider. Hands down, the VR6 hothatch is a
super idea made into a reality, but I don't think
I can justify buying a hatchback in the $20,000

An immediate inquiry I have is pertaining to the
aftermarket computer chips that replace the stock
chips if one desires a bit more torque and hp.
Does anyone have any comments on this, and is
anyone familiar with Autothority chips?

I will be posting more technical topics in the
future... GuyP


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    tacotaco Member Posts: 1
    I'm also interesting in data on the GTI, specifically reliability of the VR6 model. VWs have a long-standing reputation for unreliability, thus the 100,000 mi powertrain warranty. Can a recent (94/95) GTI owner confirm VW's improvement in quality?
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    DBILLSDBILLS Member Posts: 4
    I own a '97 GTI 2.0. I bought it because it basically met my requirements for being inexpensive and fun to drive. One more thing, it came with ABS, a de-riguer requirement. It currently has about 20,000 miles. So far, it's been quite reliable to my own dismay. Only problem I have had is that when the moonroof goes into tilt, it makes a bit of grinding noise. It's directly affected by outside temperature. A dealer serviced it a number of times, but the sound returns occasionally. Since it does not seem to affect the way the moonroof works, I decided not to worry about it. Only thing I don't like about the car is that it did not have power windows and mirrors as options. I could live without the power mirrors but I sure would like the convenience of having power windows.

    In terms of realiability, it so far has been better than expected.
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    I have the same occurrence with the moonroof in my
    '97 2.0L GTI as well, but it's not so bad. I have
    had no problems with the car so far and I'm quite
    happy with the things I get for what I paid for.
    How did you run up 20K with your car? I only have
    about 5K since this June. The only glitch that my
    car has is that the alarm 'sometimes' goes off when
    I open the hatch with the key. This is not supposed
    to happen. Does this sort of thing happen to you?

    Have you seen the the shift knob for the '98 GTIs?
    It's a golf ball again, but with the GTI logo and
    the gear symbols.

    Are you planning on modifying your car in the future?
    What have you heard about the Autothority chip and
    how it affects the 10-yr warranty? How familiar are
    you with suspension modifications on this car?
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    DBILLSDBILLS Member Posts: 4

    I have 20,000+ miles on my '97 GTI 2.0 because I have had the car since Nov. 96. I drive about 1,500 miles a month for work and leisure. I also enjoy driving.

    The "alarm" problem you have described, yes, I have experienced it myself. As you said it only seems to happen when you try to open the hatch. Try not to remove the key so abruptly from the lock once you have unlocked the hatch. You need to give it a few seconds before removing the key.

    I do like the new shift knob available in the '98 model GTI. I went to buy it from a dealer but they talked me out of buying it because it costs over $200.00. So I bought a MOMO boot with red stitching and a MOMO short anatomic briarwood shift knob from New Dimensions. However, I intend to purchase the new hand brake boot because it has the red stitching.

    As far as modifying the car goes, I am going to wait a little while. I am not sure how long I want to hold on to the current GTI. I like the new PASSAT and I would like to consider the new A4 GTI coming out in the Fall of 98. Like I said before I really want the power windows.

    I believe if you modified the engine management system by putting in an after-market chip, you would void the warranty. You might be better off spending the money on suspension upgrade. Maybe add a strut tower bar, etc. I subscribe to European Car, and it talks a lot about what you can do with the GTI. You might want to check it out.
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    Thanks for the tips. I agree about the mods. In
    the fews days that have passed since I last wrote,
    I've decided that the chip is quite risky.
    Suspension upgrades would be my best bet. I
    could use some more handling and more grip on this
    car. I just don't like the idea of messing around
    with the suspension setup and alignment. I still
    need to do some research on the exact effects of
    springs, shocks, sway bars, larger wheels, and
    tires. I hear many conflicting theories from
    various "experienced people".

    I don't mind not having power windows. I think,
    in a sick kind of way, that they actually give the
    car some character and naturalness. Plus, if the
    electrical system goes one day, you might be outta
    luck trying to close your window when that T-storm
    starts rolling across. Who knows...VW has some
    weird electrical connections, and we've both
    experienced that already.

    I don't know about the A4 GTI. I'd have to go test
    drive it, but my first impression is that I like our
    model better just b/c it is smaller, less ovoid,
    as most cars these days are steering towards round-
    ness, and it doesn't have the same chassis, but is
    replaced by the audi's. We'll have to see the figures
    when the car does come out.

    As for the new Passat, I test drove it and it did
    not impress me nearly as much as the previous
    VR6 version. The interior and feel of the car has
    become less German and more Japanese. Wait 'til
    the V6 version comes out. So what happened to the
    VR6 badges anyway?

    Yeah, those GTI knobs are way to steep for me. I
    thought they would be under $100. I like the
    stock knobs anyway, but it would be nice to get
    away from the plastic. How easy is it to change
    the shift boot?
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    DBILLSDBILLS Member Posts: 4

    I guess, I would have to wait and see how the A4 GTI would perform. I agree the new PASSAT is nice in a boring way. But I do certainly like the look of it.

    As for changing the shift boot, it is really simple. Just unscrew the shift knob and pull on the edges of the rubber boot. It will come right off.

    You should look carefully into modifying suspension because you might end up giving up a lot of ride comfort for better handling. Since I do a lot of driving I would not want my suspension to be too jarring. I am thinking about adding a strut tower brace for improved cornering, but that's all I have planned for now. I may eventually upgrade the wheels to 15".

    Let me know what you end up doing in terms of suspension upgrade.
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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    I've been reading a lot about the Mk 4 Golf in the English press. They are panning and praising in the same breath, although it's easy to figure out what they are saying. Basically, the new version is like every new version to come before: larger, quieter, more refined and less in touch with the road.

    If I decide to trade in my '91 CRX, I am in for a major change. The new issue of "Performance Car" (English mag), in a comparison test of 13 hatchbacks, calls it "The most GROWN UP car in the group." Doesn't sound like the GTI that I want. Boo Hoo!

    My problem is, I'm not sure I want to grow up yet. ( Just ask my wife!!! ) Maybe I'll buy an Integra Type R.

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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    Why not look at the A3 GTI or even the A1 or A2?
    The Corrado is another great choice. You should look into VWs b/c they're so much fun to drive, really. The Cabriolet is another fun car VW shells out. I agree though, the newer VWs are getting softer, as many new cars are. Driving a German car is very different than driving a Japanese car. You should try one out. Have you driven the Type-R? How is it?
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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    Greetings, GuyP:

    Yes I have owned several VWs already.
    '87 Fox
    '89 Golf GL (A2)
    '96 Golf GL (A3) (current @ 15,000 miles)

    No GTIs yet, but I have tested them, Corrado too. The Corrado was my favorite, but it's difficult to find used ones. No one wants to get rid of them!!

    I am really torn between the higher quality of the later generation(s) and the ""FUN"" factor of the earlier ones.

    No I have not driven a Type R Integra, but my driving pattern seems well suited to the Banzai mode. I reverse commute 40 miles each way on Parkway, Beltway and Interstate between Wahington DC and Rockville MD.

    Average speed for morning commute is 60mph, door-to-door. Like I said, Banzai ! And no.... I am NOT an aggressive driver; I don't weave in and out of 2-3 lanes, I don't flash my lights and I don't tailgate. 80% of the traffic is going >>65mph on this route, so I'm low profile, really.

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    fozzyfozzy Member Posts: 6
    hello, im 16 and buying my first car, then going off to college, i really like VW's and was looking in to a 98' GTI , they are about 16,000 i was wondering if the VR6 was worth the extra 4 grand?
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    fozzyfozzy Member Posts: 6
    another question for any long time vw owners
    how do VW's act in the long run, drivetrain, trans, etc. i've heard bad things since the factory moved to Mexico, but no hard facts.
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    leifleif Member Posts: 41
    When I was sixteen I bought a 1965 Oldsmobile '98 for $100.00
    You're doing it better than me. But you really should have a slow car to keep you out of trouble.
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    I have heard no horror stories yet about the Mexican-built A3s. I know many A3 owners, and all were very satisfied with their veedubs. Plus if anything does go wrong, VW has that 10yr/100K mi powertrain warranty.

    As far as your buying decision, since you are just 16, and maybe your parents are paying, I would get the 2.0L GTI for around $16000.

    The 2.0L is a very peppy car and is well ahead of the game(other makes) i.t.o. fun. The $20K VR6 is basically the same car(build quality and ammentities) as the 2.0L but with beefed up engine and suspension. No $20K hatchbacks for me!!!!

    The engine is superb but the car is substantially heavier than the 2.0L and you can feel this. The VR6 feels a bit nose heavy and in some driving conditions the 2.0L feels more "alive" than the VR6. In my opinion, the only place that the VR6 really shines above the 2.0L GTI is on the major highways and interstates. So if you do a lot of this kaind of driving then maybe you should consider the VR6, but if not, don't bother.

    Fuel economy is naturally better with the 4-banger. Parts are more expensive for the VR6 as well.

    For me, every street light is not an invitation to a drag race. For $20K there are many more cars to consider.

    In Europe the VR6 is not badged as a true GTI. It is only in the U.S. that the VR6 is considered (wrongly) a GTI. GTIs have always been 4-cylinders with tweaked suspension, peppier engines (like a 16v), and nicer interior, over the Golf GLs. The VR6 is definitely above and beyond this class with a DOHC V6 2.8 powerplant and should only be considered as a derivative of the true GTI.
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    CooperCooper Member Posts: 55
    I had an '83 Rabbit L that I sold in August '87 for a GTI 16V. That car lasted 175,000 miles until the transmission gave out in September '96. I sold it to a VW mechanic for his son (he could replace the transmisison for nothing). The new golf ball shift knob is just like the old Kamei knob ... a neat idea. I now have a '97 Passat Wagen. It's like a big GTI. Just getting old, I guess. A friend replaced his beloved '83 GTI with a '96 Passat Wagen, too. Great cars. My wife was against another GTI for the standard reasons ... rear seat room, 4 doors, getting older, etc. But, I still really like the new VR6 GTIs.
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    fozzyfozzy Member Posts: 6
    hello all thanks for the replys ill try to respond to each of you, sorry if i dont

    as for monney i've worked and saved 10,000, legally i cant buy a new car so it will prob be financed under my parents, however technically ill be paying my dad (not to mention i have to pay insurance as well and a golf is quite practical: (as compared to below:))

    next topic: speed
    my current car is a 96' RED MITSU ECLIPSE Turbo
    (terrible insurance, even as a co-driver) so the VR6 wont really excite me, but a little kick is nice even though i cant really afford the VR6 anyway. the eclipse is a lease and the buy-out is about 12,000 so i can afford to buy it straight out from my mom (ill treat it like im buying a used car) its in great shape i took care of it since day one, not a missed check up or a scratch. in acutallity the my parents would be happy to see me in a golf vr6 (nevertheless its still to expensive)

    last, my prefrence is 4 doors so i maight get a GL
    i'll be off to college soon and flare wont really be a priority on a campus ill have more imporatnt things to think about

    thanks to all with "past experiances" that was somthing i was really concered about.
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    fozzyfozzy Member Posts: 6
    new question:
    what to you mean when you guys give these "serial numbers" (i guess thats what they are). what are A3's ive seen them in other messages as well.

    an earlier posted message:
    "I have heard no horror stories yet about the
    Mexican-built A3s. I know many A3 owners, and all
    were very satisfied with their veedubs. Plus if
    anything does go wrong, VW has that 10yr/100K mipowertrain warranty."

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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    The letter-number designation is brought over from Europe. It just tells you what generation VW you're talking about. For instance, an A1 would be a first-gen Golf, and the A4 would be the new fourth-gen Golf (not to be confused with the Audi A4!). Designations like Mk1, Mk2,... are used as well. Most VW owners will know this.
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    fozzyfozzy Member Posts: 6
    thanks alot GuyP that had me a bit confused...
    as for VW owner i hope to be one soon...
    (fingers crossed)
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    mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    Yes, we VW people are a happy lot. I hope you'll be joining us, fozzy.
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    navratnavrat Member Posts: 1
    I currently own a 91 MR2 but, would like to get something a little bit bigger and something that can handle northern driving conditions (i.e. snow and ice) better. I used to own an '84' scirrocco which I loved, so I went and looked at VW's knowing they are fun cars to drive. Naturally I test drove the GTI/VR6 which was as fun to drive as my MR2 plus better performing due to the more powerful engine. Of course the only drawback was the price for this little hatch back. What other cars are out on the market in the VR6 category and What are the biggest differences between the regular GTI and the VR6? Is the VR6 really worth the extra cash?
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    You've owned a VW before so you have a flavor of what they're like. Things have changed somewhat so you should do a lot of research and test-driving b/f you buy another VW.

    If you haven't already read some of my messages posted above, you should do so b/c they will be of some help to you. Just click on "see all responses" and read #0, 2, 13, and 15 for VR6 vs. 2.0 L info.

    1) Edmund's New Car Guide will tell you what the competition is for the Golf VR6. Most of the Golf VR6's worthy competition is considerably more expensive than the VR6 itself-which is definitely nice to hear! In my opinion, a few competitors are:
    -Acura Integra GS-R
    -BMW 323is

    2) Differences between the 2.0L GTI and the Golf VR6 are posted in the above messages I mentioned earlier. Please read these. I'll recap here:
    -VR6 has bigger, more powerful engine
    (172bhp vs 115bhp).
    -VR6 has 15" vs 14" wheels, different shifter, and traction control.
    -VR6 is 200 pounds heavier.
    -VR6 has standard cruise control and power everything.

    This is basic and you should do your own research on the specifics. Either way, 2.0L or VR6, both are very well equiped for their respective classes. In terms of build quality, both are identical.

    There are many things people will say to advocate either the 2.0L or the VR6. The fact is, the VR6 is truly in another class than the 2.0L GTI.

    The 2.0L is already an amazingly fun-to-drive car with plenty of power for just about anyone. But for those who are really hooked on excessive power and handling, the VR6 might be the one. The $3500 question is, 'is it worth it?'

    Here are some quotes from independent reviews:
    -"Models with the 2.0-liter engine have adequate acceleration. It also helps that the two-valve 2.0-liter 4-cylinder produces more power at low speeds than most multi-valve engines. The result is better zip off the line and decent passing power without having to floor the throttle or downshift as often."
    -"The $16000 4-cyl. GTI also benefits from this sports suspension, a good choice for someone who wants sporty handling, but doesn't want to pay $3700 more for the VR6."
    -"The four-cylinder machine has a more civilized ride than the VR6, possibly because of differences in spring rates and shocks, but attributable in large measure to the different tire/wheel combo."
    -"As for power, the difference is major...49 percent more horses and 42 percent more torque in the six-cylinder variant."
    -"Both are governed to 118 mph...the VR6 gets to 60 about two seconds faster than the base model."
    -"Nonetheless, stirring the five gears of the four-cylinder model, I discovered the ratios are well placed to make the most of what's available."
    -"Wonderful car [VR6] for canyon carving, with power to handle urban traffic, but we don't think it's worth twenty large; unless it's compared to the BMW 318ti, at which point this VW becomes a bargain."

    That last quote about the BMW 318ti is an understatement in my opinion. The VR6 will out-perform the 318ti, 323is, and even the 4-cyl Z3...for 2/3 the price of a BMW.

    3) Bottomline:
    I would get the Golf VR6 if it costs somewhere between the high $17Ks to the low $18Ks brand new.
    (a highly unlikely rate of success to pull this one off, but possible!)

    If not, I would happily opt for the 2.0L GTI for no more than $15,500. The VR6 hatchback variant was a bit too much for me! So here I am with my 1997 2.0L GTI...no regrets yet!
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    So you've owned VWs b/f? Tell me about some of your VWs and why you liked them so.
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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    Hey GuyP,

    You just stole my title for "Longest Post".
    Keep up the good work.


    If you don't mind USED, look at the Corrado. It's a dream, albeit with not quite as much room in the back, unless you compare it to a Mr.2

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    mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    GuyP, I scribbled the second of your identical posts with my host magic, just wanted to let you know how it disappeared.

    Why do I love VWs? Well, they just fit me. I'm, well, vertically challenged, and one of the most important criteria for choosing a car is how I fit into it.

    My first VW was a Fox when they were just off the boat. I learned how to drive stick in that car -- oooooh, still gives me nightmares ;-0 so that's probably just sentimental on my part. It wasn't really "my" car (my husband drove it most of the time) but I rode in it quite a bit which gives a different kind of ownership.

    When it was time to get "my" car, I looked at several US makers (this was in 1987 so the mists of time have erased the specifics) and I kept coming back to VWs. I finally decided on the Golf and it was love from the beginning. After I swapped the tires that came with it for some with a bit more traction, I was ready to roll. It fit me and it was very convenient to have the hatchback.

    Last year, when it was time to replace my Golf, I looked at the SAAB and Honda hatchbacks. The SAAB was just too huge for me. The salesman said something about "pedal extenders" and that was enough to send me packing, despite how cool the weather channel radio feature is.

    As for the Honda, it was once again a matter of fit. When I had the seat forward enough to be comfortable reaching the gas and brake, I felt like my face was right in the windshield. Not a nice feeling, for me anyway.

    In the end, I just bought another VW Golf, sold this time by the fact that the driver's seat has a height adjustment (which my husband loves -- he is not vertically challenged) and a built-in car alarm which is nice because we live in the city. And of course, it was a VW and I guess I'm just a VW kid after all.
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    Thanks for your response and for getting rid of the duplicates I made. Hey, I have the same problem with my stock tires. I feel that they just don't give me the grip I need often times.

    My question is, should I just deal with the stock tires (Eagle GA) until they wear out or should I buy competent rubber now?
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    mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    There's that bnormann again ;-)

    I was just about to say the same thing and he jumped in right on time. Well, it's time the cat came out of the bag. Bnormann & Carlady are husband and wife!
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    Thanks for the info.

    Do you think it's worth upgrading from 14" alloys to 15" on my 2.0L GTI? What kind of difference will I feel?

    I definitely agree about the tire switch but I don't want the hassle of two sets of rubber/wheels, so ideally I prefer a good, sticky all-season tire. Is the Dunlop SP Sport 8000 good?

    Have you had any experience with A3 Golfs and GTIs? I like my car as it is now, but if I ever decide to do any performance modification it would be to the suspension. Do you have any specific advice on this?
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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335

    Do you live in the DC area? Despite the occasional ice storm/blizzard, I've had good luck with tires that were not so much all-season as good in the rain. We usually have boatloads of slush to deal with, and I find that tires which are very resistant to hydroplaning in the rain perform much the same way with slush.

    In this climate, I don't see any need for separate snow tires. Now, in Northern Illinois, where I grew up, I could make a case. The flat terrain created constant drifting of the snow, so the roads were never completely clear.

    I don't have personal experience with the Dunlop SP 8000, but it looks like a derivative of the D40 M2, which was a great wet/dry tire. I am a believer in Dunlop, in general, since they were bought out by a Japanese conglomerate (Sumitomo, I believe) and they revamped their entire product and production lines with new technology. The old (middle, really) days of Dunlop being a second rate brand are gone. (Same thing with Bridgestone.) I have personal experience with the D60, which is very good, but more in the touring category, a compromise between ride, handling, noise and mud/snow rating. A great "all-around" tire, but I lean toward the sharper response and stickyness of performance tires, although they don't last as long. My personal preference has been Pirelli.

    As for a recommendation on handling upgrades, the best bang for the buck will be shock/spring upgrades. The standard shocks on the A3 are too soft and the car wallows around a bit too much. Carlady and I had an '89 A2 and now a '96 A3 and the difference is substantial. She doesn't seem to mind, but if you've been reading the posts, you probably get the picture of my driving style.

    I would recommend staying with one brand, like Neuspeed for all the components, since matching/tuning of the Mass/Spring/Damper system is the ONLY thing that matters. The only other option I would consider is going to a performance house that specializes in VWs and getting their package which may mix/match varying brands. At least they have tested and tried different combinations and you will benefit from their experimentation.

    I see a lot of ads for used shocks/struts/sway bars etc. Experimenting on your own can be very expensive and, ultimately unsatisfying, unless you are committed to a long development program and you don't mind buying 3X as many parts as you need and then selling off the bits you end up not using.

    Fortunately, there is an excellent shop in the DC area called EIP Tuning. They have had several project VWs featured in "European Car" (formerly VW & Porsche Magazine). They have a web site although I don't have it on this computer, it's on this guy's excellent links page. http://rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu/~balleste/links.html

    I believe you will be better served with a suspension upgrade than going to the lower profile tires. An underdamped car on stiffer tires is probably bad news.

    Stiffer sway bars would be the next step, and a shock tower brace will also help. By this time, you will be able to reap the benefits of the lower profile tires and their sharper response.

    Good luck, we'll probably meet in the waiting room at EIP Tuning some day.....

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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    Guy P,

    I know VW upgraded the suspension on the GTI-VR6, beginning with the 1997 model year. It's ~ 1" lower and has stiffer springs and shocks. Do you know if they did the 2.0 liter-8 Valve GTI at the same time? I'm pretty sure the 8V GTI always had the larger front sway bar, same as the VR6.

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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    Yes, I live in Falls Church as a matter of fact and we probably will meet up at one of the tuning shops in the future. I have heard of EIP but I have never been there. How are their service and reputation? Do you know of VW Sport? I went there the other day and I decided that if I were to upgrade my car's suspension I would get the Neuspeed package that includes the whole deal with Bilstein shocks, larger swaybars, springs, etc.

    Some of my friends tell me that I should just change my springs at first and let my stock struts wear out (approx. 20K mi. with lowered springs) b/f going with Bilsteins. Wouldn't it make sense to just replace everything at once so you don't have to pay for the extra labor costs in the future? What do you think? I want to upgrade b/c I definitely feel the floating on turns and bumps. I am just tentative about making that first jump. On long trips though, our present set-up is not bad in my opinion.

    As for our stock suspension grade, I am not sure if it shares the same stuff as the VR6. I know the GTI has the front and rear swaybars, but other than that I am not sure if the 2.0L GTI has different spring rates and valving. I am pretty sure that the normal Golf has a different system than the VR6. People tell me different things and I am not sure who to believe. When I bought my car I asked the sales rep. about this and he said it was no different than the normal Golf. This is precisely why I want to test drive the normal Golf and the VR6 to feel the differences.
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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335

    I don't have knowledge of EIP's consumer reputation. They should be able to supply references, or check the local Better Business Bureau for claims.

    I also did not know about VW Sport, are they local to DC? Do they have a web site?

    I agree with you that it's better to replace the struts in the beginning, instead of waiting for them to wear out. Less labor in the long run and less labor to do the swap actually. The mechanic can swap out strut/spring assemblies without having to disassemble your existing assemblies to get at the old struts. You may be able to get the new struts and springs shipped pre-assembled for free or minimal charge, another savings.

    Besides, you are going to pay the money for struts some time, it makes sense to get the most use from them. I also think that the SYSTEM approach to suspension tuning is only way to go, so why compromise the desired goal with a known mismatch?

    Also, I think everyone agrees that the Golf III is underdamped. It doesn't wiggle (waddle is more like it, Miata's wiggle {;=P ) because the springs are too soft. It wiggles because the shocks (Brits call them DAMPERS, more descriptive) don't dampen out the natural oscillations that exist in any mechanical system.Stiffer springs will make it lean less in corners and squat/dive less under de/acceleration; all good things, esp. in a FWD car. But, not replacing the struts would be wrong IMHO.

    Sorry to get a little too techno, my inner geek is showing. I'm a mechanical engineer, and spring/mass/damper systems are stock-in-trade.

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    jayschiltzjayschiltz Member Posts: 1
    Hello Knowledgeable VW Owners,

    I am a hopeful future VW owner. Me thinks the vr6 is out of my price range and that 4 doors would be practical. What are the differences between the golf with the smaller engine and the gti ? Please note, I am thinking of a 96 vintage. Any thoughts or comments appreciated!!!
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    JRChoccoJRChocco Member Posts: 7
    The differnce is a lot of speed! The VR6 is a marvelous engine, and quickly turns the Golf's 0-60 run into 6.8 seconds. Don't get me wrong, the normal Golf's are great cars and fun too. They ride a little nicer because they have the normal ride heighth, not lowered 7mm like the GTI's, and because they don't have the lower profile rubber. Other than just having two doors though, they're just as practical because the back seat is just as big. So the choice, other than money, is really how fast you want to go!

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    mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    From a cargo and comfort standpoint, I think the four door is an excellent choice. Maybe it's just because I have back trouble, but I find it much easier to load groceries, etc. through the back doors. Both the 2 and 4 door have a split seat, so a passenger can ride even when the skis are in the car. ;-)

    I'm on my second VW Golf (not GTI) since 1988 and I love it!
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    I know which suspension system I want to get now. I have in mind the Neuspeed package for the 2.0L which contains Bilstein Sport shocks, Neuspeed springs, 25mm&28mm sway bars, and an upper-tie strut bar. This set up will lower my car b/t 1.5-1.75". I have ridden in a GTI with an identical setup and I really like it. The package costs around $1200.

    As for the exhaust, Techtonics is my choice b/c of its nice low growl and 2" mandrel downpiping.

    As far as wheels, I really am tempted to get 16" alloys with 205 tires but I'm still naive about this area.

    Do you have any suggestions?
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    edngedng Member Posts: 2
    Just curious on what people think...I'm also
    replacing my old CRX with something bigger and
    have narrowed it down to either an Acura Integra
    GSR or a VW VR6. Both are at about the same
    price range but are vastly different cars.
    Any advice?
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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335

    German Engineering or Japanese Quality????

    Until recently, when VW "fixed" the suspension on the VR6, it would have been the Integra, hands down.

    Now it comes down to your driving habits. Do you make many short trips or is highway cruising more common for you?

    The VR6 is more sedate on the highway, while the GS-R will probably drive you crazy on long trips with the low gear ratios and the lack of sound/vibration damping materials.

    On the other hand, I drive 30 miles one-way back and forth to work, mainly on freeways, reverse commuting with light traffic. The GS-R would probably be great for this duty.
    The sound would be okay, for 35-40 minutes.

    If I was taking a day-trip though, I would take our VW. Just like now, where it is the choice between CRX and Golf.

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    BillCBillC Member Posts: 5
    Bruce, thanks for all the cool info. On wheels,
    is Borbet a decent brand? I'm looking for wheels for a Passat that look like the (grossly overpriced at $1350 for 4 15x6) factory wheels.
    I want to go Plus1 while I'm at it and upgrade the
    factory tires.
    Thanks in advance.

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    bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335

    Yes, Borbet is one of the better brands. Do you have a 4 CYL Passat or VR6? There is a big difference, 4 lug vs 5 lug for instance.

    I also thought the 15" factory wheels were 6-1/2" wide. Maybe it was different on the Passat. Have you looked on the used market for wheels. I have seen a lot of (5 lug, 15" x 6-1/2") GTI VR6 wheels for sale by people who upgraded.

    I have found it tough to locate the factory wheels I want, which are the 4 lug, 15 x 6-1/2 for Carlady's Golf GL. I may have to settle for 14 x 6.

    Happy Hunting,

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    BillCBillC Member Posts: 5
    I ordered a V6, but am seriously thinking of taking a 1.8T instead and doing some very slight tuning (a chip and an air filter to go with the 16" wheels and tires). I have to just get over the warranty issue (i.e. you lose it when you snap in the chip). Then I have to find some good wheels that fit. Your advice has been very helpful on defining "good" wheels.
    Do you know much about chips?
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    elmerjfuddelmerjfudd Member Posts: 3
    Hey VW fans,

    I've been reading some of your comments here and I am in the same dilemma that several folks here have been going through. German engineering, Mexican construction [GTI VR-6] vs. Japanese build quality and reliability.

    Can anyone give me some testimonials of A3's holding up to the long haul?

    I've heard that trim pieces and minor stuff falls off, breaks, etc. However, the powertrain remains good on newer VW's.

    My friend's German built Passat has held up well over time though. What do you think? Thanks.

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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50
    Bill (and others thinking of sport tuning),

    I have gone through exactly what you are going through now--the compelling urge to upgrade a VW.

    First, you must ask yourself if there's anything really wrong with your car as it is.

    Second, you must understand that every single mod will alter something with your car's behavior (heard, seen, or unseen). To gain one thing you must be willing to sacrifice another.

    As examples, I will use your desired mod pieces-i.e., chip and free-flow air filter.

    Dyno tests ran on a Golf GL show that Autothority chips are superior to others like Techtonics, Neuspeed, Autotech, AMS, and the stock chip. HP & torque gains over the stock chip are seen across the board but only really kick in after 3000rpm. The chip is a great, affordable gadget to gain real power, but as everything, it has its price. You most likely will be saying bye-bye to your 10yr/100Kmi warranty. The chip may also have glitches-and this has happened with Autothority's chips in the past. Look around the Net for people who have had problems with the chip--there are plenty out there, and there are as many very satisfied folks, too! The 93 octane fuel--I actually wouldn't mind buying each fill up.
    (OBD-II Chip Comparison found in...
    European Car,Dec. 97, pg.110).

    2)free-flow air filter:
    As with the chip, there are several brands to choose from. Neuspeed makes a familiar one called the 'P-flo' which uses the RAMAIR design(basically a cylindrical sponge coated with sticky goo). The P-flo previously used the K&N cone filter design (which I prefer over the sponge). Both will surely do one thing for your car-make it sound meaner and louder. As to whether it actually gives you added HP is questionable, depending on how you use it. The question many people are confused about is: "what is better-COLD air or MORE air?" Ideally, you should have both to see any HP gain. E.C. ran a test to see if a RAMAIR filter could gain HP over stock. Guess what? The free-flow filter actually ROBBED power across the board from the VR6 Jetta being tested! Even with an additional cool air bath prop installed, HP gains were pathetic, present only after 60mph. So maybe this has answered our question above.
    Free-flow filters sound great, if your willing to sacrifice--horsepower!
    (Air Filter/Intake System Comparison found in...
    European Car, Feb. 98, pg.38).

    After rumination and study, IMHO, a more beneficial path to sport tuning your stock VW is to work on its supension (springs, dampers, swaybars, wheels and tires). Would-be lost-torque is picked up when you prevent the car fromt diving and squating during quick acceleration/braking.

    Best of luck on tuning your VW!
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    I own a '97 GTI and have had no problems with it yet. A3s seem to be alright after all. You mentioned that your friend has a Passat. What year is it? Go with German engineering!
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    BillCBillC Member Posts: 5
    Thanks GuyP. I was mostly worried about heat produced by being able to burn fuel faster and the extra stresses that could be put on the tranny and rear end. Heat's bad for electronics and I would assume it needs to be dissapated somehow. Headers? The extra torque and HP are going to whack the tranny and rear end. Can they handle it? And finally, noise is not what I want. My 67 Camaro fulfilled that need for me earlier in life.
    Thanks for the tip on an air filter. I'd not heard that that was a side affect.
    It sounds more and more like waiting for the V6 is the right move. It is SMOOTH.

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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50

    Are you thinking of getting the New Passat V6?

    Great car, I test drove both the V6 tip and the 1.8T, and I loved them both. I'd imagine the 5-spd V6 would be exhilirating!

    Build quality is definitely up a few notches from the previous model, wouldn't you agree?

    I thought that you might like to know this:
    There was a GLITCH REPORTED on the New Passat over in the Bay Area. The poor guy just had it for 2 days when the problem appeared. Apparently, during a drive during a rainstorm, the moonroof engaged by itself! It refused to close and the interior was solied. The darned thing finally closed--again, on its own volition! As he was taking it to his dealer, the event repeatedly occured. When he arrived, he couldn't get the moonroof to do its thing again.
    (New Passat moonroof glitch found in...
    Sedans conference, topic# 203)

    So, Bill, make note of this b/f you make the plunge. I own a 97 GTI and IT'S just fine. This is not a good sign for VW if their planning on improving their image for the turn of the millenia. Hopefully, there's nothing wrong with the upcoming Golfs and Jettas, not to mention the New Beetle!
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    elmerjfuddelmerjfudd Member Posts: 3
    My buddy's Passat is a '92 4-cyl that he picked up while he was in Germany. He's actually driven it on both continents not to mention the Autobahn. Pretty cool, eh.

    Passat moonroofs having their own minds. Well, it seems VW's CEO wants to take the upmarket and compete with BMW's. They want to make the build quality better and hike up the price. So long "People's Car", hello 80's.
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    GuyPGuyP Member Posts: 50
    Hey everyone,

    If your interested, I want you to read message#6-8 over at 'Honda Civic vs. VW Golf' topic. It is pretty darn hilarious. Tell me what you think.
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    BillCBillC Member Posts: 5
    "Teutonic Turd"? Ya gotta laugh. Anyhow, I hope not!
    I've been pretty active in the Passat topic.
    I haven't gotten to drive a V6 Passat yet (they just got here this week in Austin an I haven't gotten down to the dealer for a ride). They did let me drive the 2.8 A4 5spd though. It was sweet indeed. Too bad it was also over $30K.
    I think the new Passat has a great feel to it. It's mechanically related to the A4 which even Consumers Report calls "very reliable". I sure hope it's OK.
    If the V6 has the right feel I'll probably just drop my tuning plans. I'll post back when I've gotten some seat time.
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    BillCBillC Member Posts: 5
    I got 30 minutes of "butt time" back to back in an Audi A4 1.8T and the Passat 2.8. No contest,
    it's the VW hands down. What a smooth power plant.
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    MossMoss Member Posts: 1
    I'm looking at a VERY used '86 Golf, hopefully for around $1,000. It's got manual transmission, has 150,000 miles on it, and no radio . . . any ideas, here, on the car's potential life span and/or what it would be worth?

This discussion has been closed.