#### Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

## Quick Links

#### Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

## Quick Links

**section!**

__Values & Prices Paid__Meet your fellow owners in our

__Owners Clubs__
## Comments

2I highly recommend this site to start shopping: http://amexnetwork.zag.com/main.html. Cuts so much of the upfront negotiation out.

Here are the other rates I got for the same car, same time period/miles:

VW South in Charlotte: $2750 down (plus about $1500 in doc/acq fees), $325mo.

Heritage VW Lithia Springs, GA: Price is 28,330 to lease the vehicle for 3years, 10K miles per year, payment would be approx 378/mo before taxes, tags and fees.

Jim Ellis of Atlanta: $1500 down (no add'l fees/drive-off), $345/month (incl. tax) **this was a great deal, but I didn't want to travel so far to pick up the car. Excellent sales staff: very professional

Gunther VW Coconut Creek, FL: $1,840 down (no add'l fees/drive-off), $299/month

Good luck to everyone else, and thanks for all the help along the way!

14Could you please include all the details on your posts (MSRP, negotiated price, residual, MF, dealer fees, money down, due at signing, monthly payment with/without tax, tax percentage...)

It is really beneficial for us to access all the info.

Car_man: Would you please share us the details (residual, MF, incentives...) for July 2010 for a 2010 CC Sport/DSG for both 10K and 12K please?

2Would you mind telling me where you are in CA? I'm in the bay area and looking to get the same car.

Thanks

2My credit is mid 800s. I was pretty happy with the deal.

MSRP originally was 30,199, on my lease it's just under 26,000 with the residual a shade over 15,000 in 3 years.

4Here are the details of my lease deal, in case anyone is interested:

I leased it for 3 years at 12K miles per year for $286/mo plus tax ($314/mo including 9.75% LA county tax) with $845.50 drive-off. The drive-off consisted of 1st payment, DMV, doc and CA tire fees of about $435 and $97.50 tax on the $1000 Friends and Family rebate. The $625 acquisition fee is rolled into the monthly payments. No security deposit was required and I did not have a trade.

The selling price of the car came out to $25,028 before the $1000 F&F rebate was applied. So the net selling price was $24,028 and the net capitalized cost with the $625 acquisition fee added came out to $24,653. Residual is 49% ($14,655) and the MF is 0.00021.

130,856Nice job!

Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

Edmunds Moderator7Is this a good deal? I pushed them as far as I could but they would not write anything down and acted like I wasn't making any sense when I asked for specifics about the $350 monthly fee they were quoting me so I could research it.

Thanks,

Bobby

625You haven't provided enough information for anyone to accurately assess your deal. So, here's what I suggest...

Ask the dealer for their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Everything is disclosed in black and white eliminating any possibility of confusion and misunderstanding.

There is absolutely no reason for the dealer not to give you this document. If they refuse, simply tell them that you can't do business with them. However, if they do provide it and you need help in confirming/interpreting all the data (calculations, etc), you may email it to me at

[email protected]

and I'll be happy to provide you with a comprehensive analysis at no charge.

John

7car price 30k

15000 miles per year

residual 14100

rate .00041

monthly payment after taxes 345

Would this be able to tell you anything?

625No, it doesn't help for a couple of reasons...

(1) The numbers look like estimates (ball park). For instance, a car price of $30k can mean $30,437.12 or $30,027.83. Is that the MSRP? If so, there's a real problem. I noticed that the residual is 14,100. Well, 14,100 / 30,000 = 47%... hmmm ... looks like the residual factor could be 47% suggesting that the $30K could, indeed, be the MSRP.

Normally, one doesn't pay MSRP for a car. The selling price is negotiable. Also, the dealer didn't provide you with the adjusted cap cost which is required in order to determine the lease payment...

P = 0.00041 x (30,000 - 2,600 + 14,100) + (30,000 - 2,600 - 14,100) / 36

= 386.46 (base payment excluding tax)

This tells me that the adjusted cap is much lower than $27,400 ($30,000 - $2,600). Did you put money down (cap reduction) other than the $2600 trade? What are you required to pay upfront? These should be itemized. Are you paying the $625 acquisition fee upfront? Upfront dealer doc fee? Can you see that I don't have enough information? And so, there are lots of questions that remain unanswered.The only relliable document is the dealer's lease worksheet. Anything less than this computer generated document will not work.

(2) The sales person could be misinformed (this is very common) and, so, the numbers provided may be inaccurate.

(3) $345 after taxes leaves huge questions such as sales tax rate and the state in which you reside. States compute sales tax differently. Some require taxes to be paid upfront (OH, IL, TX, NY, NJ, VA, etc); others tax the payment streams as they are received (PA, CA). If you live in a state where the taxes are due upfront, then the salesman rolled the taxes into the lease ($345 including taxes). I have no idea what your base payment (excluding taxes) is. Quoted payments that include sales tax mean nothing unless the sales tax rate and state are known.

Rather than going back and forth, the best thing to do is to get the dealer's lease worksheet; otherwise, we're just guessing and spinning our wheels.

John

7625This implies that the adjusted cap cost is about $25,128.47. The most imporant number is the sell price. IF you're paying all fees upfront (including the $625 acquisition fee, dealer doc fee, DMV/gov fees, etc), then it's reasonable to conclude that the sell price is $27,728.47 ($25,128,27 + $2,600.00). Is this a reasonable price? Is this the lowest price you can get? I don't know. And so, you should check Edmunds invoice pricing as well as all available cash incentives (rebates, etc) and deduct those from the invoice price. Then, check overstock at zag.comj for the lowest selling prices in your area. Using good judgment, you can arrive at a good starting price to negotiate.

The key to leasing is to do all your homework in advance of visiting the dealer. This includes emailing the dealer a one-page lease proposal that includes all pertinent information. It must be professional looking and all numbers must be spot on. Otherwise, you'll lose credibilityand the dealer will have you for breakfast. There are only two reasons to go to a car dealership when purchasing or leasing...

(1) Test drive

(2) Sign papers and pick up your car

All negotiating should be done via phone/email with your lease calculator program (e.g., EXCEL spreadsheet) fired up and ready to rumble! The only thing that you'll likely change is the sell price which requires a few key strokes. And, bing-bang-boom you're done!

Good luck with your dealer!

John

7I don't have a scanner so I am going to type it up here. I will research the price and see if that seems fair but if this tells you anything else can you please let me know? Thanks again for your help.

1. LEASE #

2. LEASE DATE: 7/17/2010

3. STOCK #: V00731 15

4. PRICE: 25736.50

5. LOJACK: 0.00

6. TERM: 36

7. # ADVANCE PYMT: 1

8. RATE: .00041

9. DAYS: 30

10. M.S.R.P.: 30000.00

11. RESIDUAL: .47

12. ALLOW MI/YR: 15000

13. EST MI/YR: 15000

14. CENTS/MILE BEGIN: .15

15. CENTS/MILE END: .25

16. RES ADDS:

17. ACQ FEE: 625.00

18. ACQ UPFRONT Y/N: Y

19. TRADE #1: 2600.00

20. PAYOFF #1:

21. CASH: 0.00

22. REBATE: 0.00

23. REGISTERED STATE: FL

24. COUNTY CODE: HI

25. COUNTY RATE: 1

26. DOC FEE: 699.99

27. DOC UPFRONT Y/N: N

28. WARR PREM

29. MAINT PREM

30. WARR UPFRONT Y/N: N

31. GAP PREM

32. GAP UPFRONT Y/N: N

33. SEC DEPOSIT: 0.00

TOT INIT PMT: 2600

ADJ RESIDUAL: 14100.00

GOVT FEES: 279.50

TAXES: 865.78 STATUS: S

NO CR

MO. PMT: 345.31

625Okay, so the MSRP is, indeed 30,000. Here's the guts of your deal...

4. PRICE: 25736.50

6. TERM: 36

7. # ADVANCE PYMT: 1

8. RATE: .00041

10. M.S.R.P.: 30000.00

11. RESIDUAL: .47

12. ALLOW MI/YR: 15000

13. EST MI/YR: 15000

14. CENTS/MILE BEGIN: .15

15. CENTS/MILE END: .25

17. ACQ FEE: 625.00

18. ACQ UPFRONT Y/N: Y

19. TRADE #1: 2600.00

23. REGISTERED STATE: FL

26. DOC FEE: 699.99

27. DOC UPFRONT Y/N: N

32. GAP UPFRONT Y/N: N

33. SEC DEPOSIT: 0.00

TOT INIT PMT: 2600

ADJ RESIDUAL: 14100.00

GOVT FEES: 279.50

TAXES: 865.78 STATUS: S

MO. PMT: 345.31

And, here's the problem... it doesn't disclose the adjusted cap cost, the base payment, and your sales tax rate like a lease worksheet should. It also doesn't explicitly state what you're paying upfront (MUST BE ITEMIZED). If the 345.31 includes taxes, then I could compute the base payment IF I knew the sales tax rate. And, if I know the base payment, I can determine the adjusted cap cost. So, what is the sales tax rate? 7%? A doc fee of 699.99? Good grief, that seems extremely high. Frankly, the dealer gave you a piece of slop.

If you can provide the sales tax rate, I should be able to unravel all this garbage.

John

7Thanks,

Bobby

625After making several calculations, none of this makes much sense. I need to know exactly what's being capitalized (financed) in this lease as well as an accurate itemization of all charges paid upfront. Otherwise, there's not much I can do. This is why I never rely on a dealer to "run the numbers" preferring, instead, to create my own lease proposal with all pertinent information. This means I control the deal eliminating dealer BS and their sloppy half-assed data disclosures .There's just too much missing information. It's like solving one equation with 3 unknowns... not gonna happen unless I can get something definitive.

John

.

7Thanks,

Bobby

625Yes. But, be sure to get a complete itemization of those items that are financed in the lease as well as those items paid upfront.

John

7The base payment is 326

The adjusted cap is 25540

The sales tax rate is 7%

The dealer wasn't sure what I meant by upfront aside from the aquisition fee. I think it is just the aquisition fee according to the Lease Worksheet. Please let me know if this makes sense to you. Thanks again for your help.

- Bobby

625Sounds like he's playing dumb when he said that he didn't know what you meant by upfront cost. They're simply monies due at lease signing. He also didn't tell you how he arrived at the adjusted cap.

G = S + A

C = G - D

G = Gross cap

S = Selling price

A = Amounts Financed (What is being financed, if anything? The 625 acq fee?)

C = Adjusted Cap

D = Cap cost reduction (i.e., downpayment- I'm assuming 2,600)

S = 25,736.50

A = 699.99 (doc fee- I presume that this is being financed from your data sheet)

G =

26,436.49D = 2,600.00 (I assume this is the NET trade value)

C =

23,836.49According to your data sheet, the 2,600 is listed as the "total initial payment". What on earth does that mean? Is it being used as a down payment or; is it used to help pay the costs due at lease signing? The data sheet doesn't provide even a remote clue. Also, according to the data sheet, there are only

twopossibilities for the adjusted cap and they areboldedabove and neither of them match 25,540. The 26,436.49 would equate to the adjusted cap IF the 2,600 wasn't used as a cap reduction. Otherwise, the adjusted cap is 23,836.49. Can you see that this is pure garbage? Could it be that only a portion of the 2,600 is used as a cap reduction? If so, then the balance would be applied to the upfront charges. But, again, I'm guessing! A good data sheet leaves absolutely no questions unanswered. It's thorough and provides an accurate accounting of all dollars. This data sheet is useless and can be used for toilet paper. But, it's not your fault.Okay, so if we add your

new informationto our list...4. PRICE: 25736.50

6. TERM: 36

7. # ADVANCE PYMT: 1

8. RATE: .00041

10. M.S.R.P.: 30000.00

11. RESIDUAL: .47

12. ALLOW MI/YR: 15000

13. EST MI/YR: 15000

14. CENTS/MILE BEGIN: .15

15. CENTS/MILE END: .25

17. ACQ FEE: 625.00

18. ACQ UPFRONT Y/N: Y

19. TRADE #1: 2600.00

23. REGISTERED STATE: FL

26. DOC FEE: 699.99

27. DOC UPFRONT Y/N: N

32. GAP UPFRONT Y/N: N

33. SEC DEPOSIT: 0.00

TOT INIT PMT: 2600

ADJ RESIDUAL: 14100.00

GOVT FEES: 279.50

TAXES: 865.78 STATUS: S

MO. PMT: 345.31

The base payment is 326The adjusted cap is 25540

The sales tax rate is 7%

Let's see, we get...

P = 0.00041 x (25,540 + 14,100) + (25,540 - 14,100)/36

= 334.03 NOT 326 or 345.31

So, now the payment is way off. It appears that the dealer is giving you inconsistent data as there is no way on God's green earth that the payment is 326 or 345.31 given the above data. By the way, I'm betting that the base payment is $326.20 not $326.00. Always insist on exact data;

notestimates or ball park!The taxes appear to be calculated as follows...

0.07 x 36 x 326.20 + 0.07 x 625 = 865.78

If so, it appears that FL taxes the total of the taxable payments (like OH, NJ, NY) and not the payment streams as received. This needs to be confirmed with the Florida Dept. of Revenue...

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/

Frankly, I wouldn't deal with these people as they seem to be grossly incompetent or dishonest. Rather than argue with them, I suggest you create a one-page lease proposal with all pertinent information and FAX/email it to another dealer.

If you like, I can send you samples if you email me at

[email protected]

John

14The dealer tells me that one car with different color which they have it in stock is $350 per month for me, but the color I want, which they do not have in stock is $365. Other than stock status and color, MSRP's are the same.

The dealer says: "There is no difference besides color. The issue is the white gold is here and the other one we have to pay delivery costs on, hence the price difference. "

Aren't they still paying the delivery costs on the in-stock car somewhere down the road?

625I see that you're in cleveland. I'm in Medina. If you are still trying to construct a lease deal and have questions regarding calculations, taxes, etc., I'll be glad to assist. Ohio dealers incorrectly compute the lease payment in those instances where the first payment and taxes are capitalized in the lease. A few years ago, I spoke with a software provider and, after considerable discussion, they finally concurred. The F&I guy at Rick Rousch in Medina seemed to concur as well but only after considerable explanation. They credited my nephew with the overcharge.

John

PS: Sales tax, as you may know, is calculated on the sum of the taxable payments. Also, acq fees and dealer doc fees are also taxable even if paid at lease signing.

14So in order to help (please) you may need some hard facts.

MSRP: $30084

Selling: $25500

Acq Fee: $625

MF: 0.00021

Resid: %49 (for 3 years 12K/y)

Title: ~$99

Dealer Fee: $250 + tax

* Due at Signing: $735, includes dealer/title/license fees and first payment (and some $20)

* Monthly: $350 including 7.75% tax

*****Please note that the selling price is my calculation, as I was only talking per month basis with the dealers. (since I did not know whether their or mine calculations were wrong!!! )******

My lease calculator is what I found in Edmunds.com (link: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/48365/article.html )

So what would be the difference for OH from that calculation?

625I'm John, not Dave. Actually, there is no difference in Ohio because you're paying the first payment upfront as opposed to capitalizing it and so, there is no discrepancy.Your numbers appear to be rounded or ball parked. Being a math guy, I like exact figures. However, my calculations do confirm yours. Given the information you provided, here is a summary presentation...

MSRP..................................................... 30,084.00

Selling Price............................................ 25,500.00

Amounts CapitalizedAcq Fee................................................... 625.00

Ohio Sales Tax @7.75% x 36 x 324.80...... 906.19

Gross Cap............................................... 27,031.19

Cap Reduction......................................... 0.00

Adjusted Cap........................................... 27,031.19

Money Factor.......................................... 0.00021

Residual Factor....................................... 49%

Residual Value....................................... 14,741.16

Monthly Lease Payment......................... 350.16

Taxable Monthly Lease Payment............ 324.80

Amounts Due at Lease Signing1st Payment........................................ 350.16

Dealer Doc Fee................................... 250.00

Tax on Dealer Doc Fee @7.75%........... 19.38

Est. DMV Fees................................... 115.46

TOTAL DUE...................................... 735.00

Does your lease provide GAP coverage? Is there a disposition fee at lease end? The most important items in any lease transaction are the

selling priceandmoney factor. The latter looks great but I'm not sure about the selling price. Did you check Edmunds invoice pricing and all cash incentives available, if any? Also, check overstock at zag.com for the lowest selling prices in the Cleveland area. Other than that, everything looks great!John

14I am sorry for the name confusion, I was dealing with a Dave over the phone haha!

Everything you have done was exactly my calculations...

So my question again is:

The dealer says: "There is no difference besides color. The issue is the white gold is here and the other one we have to pay delivery costs on, hence the price difference. "

Aren't they still paying the delivery costs on the in-stock car somewhere down the road?

625I really don't know the answer to your question. Are they getting the car from another dealer or; is this a "special order"? Who and where are they getting the car from? Dealers swap cars all the time and so that shouldn't be a problem in terms of cost. If it's a special delivery, where it's being shipped as a stand alone unit, then I can understand the reason for a delivery charge. However, if it's part of a "lot" shipment, then I see no reason for the charge. I guess you need to probe a little more if you haven't already done so.

John

4Dealer #1 says: $179/month, $2,999 down + charges.

Dealer #2 ads states: $278/month + tax, $0 down. no additional fees.

Dealer #3 ads states: $289/month + tax, $0 down. no additional fees.

Do I try to negotiate, meaning cap cost, mileage, etc. or just take deal and run with it?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

1441basically used your quote to negotiate deal on my car lease:

12K year, 0 down, 36 month

came up to:

MSRP 29300

24000 purchase price, before 500 rebate

625 acquisition fee rolled into monthly payments

49% residual value

0.00021 money factor

come 305 monthly including 9% tax

and 600 out of pocket upfront costs, which include first payment.

I think it is slightly worse than yours, but still looked like a very good deal for me.

23CC Sport 2.0 MSRP Invoice

Base Price $28,860 $26,963

DSG Automatic $2,672 $2,260

Thunder Wheels $2,099 $1,799

Mat Kit $225 $175

Media Interface $199 $176

Chrome Tips $149 $110

Destination $800 $800

Total w/Options $32,332 $30,023

3 Year/15K miles per Year

Purchase Price $28,980

Aftermarkets $249 (Tint&Nitrogen Filled Tires)

Customer Cash $1,457.18 (Includes 1st month of $455.22 and $997.06 Upfront Fees)

Cap Reduction $4.90

Money Factor .00021

Residual Amount $15,196.04 (47% of the MSRP of $32,332)

Base Monthly Payment of $416.49

Tax 9.3% $38.73

Total Monthly Payment of $455.222338,515VW Credit's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 CC Sport with 12,000 miles per year are .00004 and 49%, respectively.

The residual value for a lease with only 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.

In most of the country, Volkswagen is currently providing a $1,500 cash incentive on leases of 4-cylinder CC models. This allowance is higher than this in certain states on the East Coast.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515In short, the easiest way to get a good deal on a leased vehicle is to shop around for the lowest possible selling price and then have the dealer that you decide to go with calculate your vehicle's monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

2Also, are there any additional incentives available for current VW owners?

The best deal advertised in the paper here is $299 "sign and drive" (no money down, no deposit, no dealer fees) for a manual CC with 10k per year. 12k miles per year is $15 more. R-Line is $40 more.

I contacted one dealer in south Florida who offered $279 "sign and drive" as the base.

101. $950 due at signing which includes 1st payment, tag, dealer fee etc.

2. 15K Miles per year

3. .00021 MF

4. Residual 47%

5. Sticker $28,560

6. Pmt $322 +tax.

Don't remember the actual sales price, but it was around $24K. This was in the Tampa area.

14I just leased a CC sport 2.0 with the automatic transmission with MDI and Mat Kit.

1. $735 due at signing which includes 1st payment, tag, dealer fee etc.

2. 12K Miles per year

3. .00021 MF

4. Residual 49% ($14,741.16)

5. Sticker $30,084

6. Pmt $360.11 (including 7.75% tax)

7. CAP Cost/Sale Price: $25,856.08

I got the car on 7/23 from Akron,OH.

I could get the same car with Candy White and 2 tone interior (which dealer had in stock) but I really wanted to get a Light Brown one with Black interior. So I did not want to push too far since they were getting that car from out-of-state.

2I'm looking at the R Line if I can find one, is it true that the residual is different for those?

2What's the current lease rate? .000210 or .00004?

I assume residuals are unchanged at

47%, 49% and 50% for 15, 12, and 10k?

What's up with this?

10First question....is this a good deal?

I want to lease the same car except w/ manual trans. The auto is a $1,200 option I believe.

How much should I be paying?

Thanks!

2344210K miles/year, 24 months

MSRP $28984

Downpayment $2999

Final Cap Cost $20411

Residual $16520 (57%)

Money Factor 0.00021

Monthly $169

38,515Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to take the cash incentives that I mentioned in my previous post into account.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515If I was in the market for a 2010 CC right now, I personally would shoot for a selling price of $500 over dealer invoice minus the cash incentives that I mentioned a couple of posts ago. You can look up the invoice price of the exact car that you want, as you want it equipped over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease are .00030 and 46%.

The 24 and 36 month numbers for a 2010 CC VR6 Sport 2WD are .00007 / 47% and .00007 / 40%.

When negotiating your lease on these cars, make sure to take the cash incentives that I mentioned a couple of posts ago into account.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515When negotiating your lease on this vehicle, make sure to take advantage of the $750 cash incentive that Volkswagen is currently providing on leases of it through VW Credit.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

2