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Get what you want, more importantly something that meets your needs, and pass on c4c, if that's the case.
You can't carry around a big family in an Aveo.
The buyer is in control of the deal. There is no reason on earth why C4C has to steer them into something they don't want to do.
Now that's Income Redistribution as promulgated by our socialist administration.
Why should my high income tax bracket & bill be used to subsidize those who in their formative years made decisions to be less successful?
The entire stimulus concept is less than healthy in the long run by causing the unborn to bear the payback and there will be a payback.
A college kid graduating today, with the same GPA you had, does not have the same chance of success getting a job, and his house will cost him 12 times as much with perhaps double the income (lower adjusted for inflation).
Just throw fear mongering terms around that is better. :sick:
Altima Hybrid. Went from 14mpg to 34. Al Gore loves me now.
Hmhh Al Gore love. Do you think he will give you a big head and rub his scratch beard on you then ask for help with Manbearpig?
Very few entreprenours credit their lofty positions to the "environment".
A college kid graduating today, in this computer age, has better chances than I & he doesn't have to dedicate a few years of his life by being drafted into the Army before beginning his productive years.
Housing two professional college grads in a 1200 sq.' 1 bath, single car garage is not acceptable to them. For some reason, they think they deserve starting out with what their parents took 30 years to accumulate.
I got a better job sooner after graduating.
His mortgage, on a townhouse an hour out of town, is more than my mortgage on a 5BR house in a much closer in, nicer neighborhood.
I don't think he'll ever be out of debt.
We're drifting a bit off topic here, but I don't mind paying taxes to give young grads a bit of a break.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOX6HCnkDd8Q
The higher sales may produce between $7.7 billion and $11.2 billion of top-rated asset-backed debt
Negative, half-glass-empty spin coming in 3, 2, ...
C4C is probably the least harmful nudge the government can give to the economy. It has tangible benefits, and the cost barely matches what we piss away on ungrateful brats like Israel each year, not to mention more sinister forms of corporate welfare and endless taxbreaks to the irresponsible rich. I know where I'd rather send my money..
I don't mind that you or others want to pay more taxes for such things. But I do have an issue when a law gets enacted forcing me to follow suite.
Maybe instead of C4C using tax $ from general collections, a special fund could have been setup and anyone wanting to pay extra taxes could have called and made a contribution.
Even before the economic problems last year, the growth of auto manufacturing capacity around the world was too high. We do not need as many factories and manufacturers as we have. Artificially trying to create sales does not change the facts that there are too many factories, workers and brands.
Its more Debt its bad think of the children blah blah blah socialism blah blah blabh...
:P :sick: :confuse:
If a citizen would prefer to see the D2 collapse, then it seems more rational for that person to protest the government's intervention in the survival of these companies, rather than some highly implausible references to socialism, which the American Socialist Party has already declared as non-existent in America. (and which I totally agree with---it does not exist here unless you want to call Medicare, Social Security and the GI Bill "socialist"----which is a most peculiar description for these programs).
Social Security, Medicare, Food stamps, C4C, TARP, GM & C bailouts etc are all socialism. The GI bill is NOT Socialism. That is reward for defending the country. Which is what the Federal government is supposed to be doing. As far back as the Revolution soldiers that survived were given land for their contribution to protecting the Republic. The GI Bill would be in the same vein.
Socialism got a real foothold with arguably the worst President ever, FDR. He may be dethroned very soon.
--Billy Wharton, http://socialistwebzine.blogspot.com--
When she does this, I switch gears and ask her about her life during the Depression. She's 88 now, bless her heart.
Mom said they wouldn't have made it if it weren't for FDR (and these were farming folks, so they grew their own crops and butchered hogs every fall). Her oldest brother, one of ~10 kids, got a job with the CCC. The CCC paycheck in his case was set up to send half his paycheck to mom & dad, and that's how the rest of the family managed to get by for a good three years in the worst of it. She loved FDR. Go figure.
Meanwhile, there's only one Prius in town if anyone wants to get something with real good mpg clunker. Not much selection. Can't tell by the asking price what style it is. Shopping around the web, there's a dealer somewhere in Indiana that has some Prius II's in stock with $2,000 ADM tacked on to MSRP.
I'm thinking we can trade the van in around December when the voucher money has dried up along with all the new car buyers, plus the inventory should be bloated a bit by then again.
about 3 months ago, she bought an 09 escape AWD (240 hp, 6 speed auto), which has averaged 22.4 mpg over 3,500 miles.
pretty happy with that!
I think the stimulus could do more good for those out of work with CCC or WPA type jobs. I don't think you could get it past Congress and their crony Unions. Those were hard jobs with low pay.
The data seems to indicate that most C4C participants were pretty far above your average welfare recipient. These are solid middle or upper middle class people who, I think, fully understood what C4C was about---a business stimulus package that encouraged them to spend money.
These were not people who needed money---they needed a kick in the pants to stop sitting on it.
As for C4C "driving up the price of new cars" --- if the $4500 carrot somehow drained the buyer's enthusiasm to bargain at the usual rates, I hardly think one can blame the government for the buyer's lack of negotiating acuity.
Being President in an economic or constitutional crisis is no guarantee of sainthood. The three predecessors to FDR, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, rank #38, 26 and 34 respectively---- and the three predecessors to Lincoln ranked even worse--#37, 40 and 42.
Risky business to be Prez in hard times.
I know I am going to regret this but seriously FDR as the worst president ever???
I would make the argument that he was not the best president as he made some serious mistakes but he is still no where near the worst.
What about Taylor, Grant, Harding, Harison, Hoover, Pierce?
Carter was worse then FDR.
I am scared to ask but who do you think the best is?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29216774/ns/politics-white_house/
Yes he did. Mostly the making of the Democrats elected in 2006 and a lame duck President trying to please everyone. Remember even as late as 2007 we sold 17 Million vehicles. Close to record sales if I am not mistaken. I just do not believe you can spend your way out of debt. Even if Joe Biden says you can.
And we just will have to disagree on allowing GM and C to self destruct. I am a firm believer in American ingenuity when it is not stifled by repressive government regulations and taxes. GM and Chrysler would not even be missed. And the other automakers would be stronger. It is such a simple concept that so many cannot understand.
Probably Jefferson or Teddy Roosevelt. Though they had some real flaws also. Not sure I would put Washington or Lincoln in the top 5.
"The total number of Big Three employees, parts-supplier employees and car-dealer employees totals approximately 1.6 million, according to the Alliance for American Manufacturing.[14] All auto-related industries and after-market service businesses employ approximately 3.1 million people in the United States.
So 4.7 million *additional* unemployed in the course of a current economic crisis with severe existing unemployment is somehow acceptable under some kind of 21st century Social Darwinism?
Best think that one through. :surprise:
Yes indeedy. Congress since 2007 had helped in that, but Obama has reminded us almost daily that the problem was Bush's making, all the while exploding the debt with needless spending. Recessions wear themselves out in about what 1.5 to 2.0 years. This one started in Jan 2008? We're at 1.75 years? Bo will still be blaming the previous admin in election campaign 2012. :mad:
$4Clunkers has been a trivial amount of waste out of all the dollars spent on other things.
>Founding Fathers a decade to straighten out their mess, and they were geniuses.
If it takes "geniuses" in DC to straighten things out, it ain't gonna happen; there's a real shortage of that these days. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1. My brother bought a NEW '00 tacoma 5 sp for $10,900 in Fl. Steel wheels and vinyl floor. You want $13k for a 7 yr older one with 110k on it but it has a V6 and maybe alloys and carpet? Imagine that, no depreciation in 6 years if I choose Toyota.
2. Only 17% of all Sonomas and S-10's were sixes. Probably as rare as a Tacoma V6 and yet still only $2500 to buy. My V6 Sonoma also beats my '00 S-10 4 cyl and my brother's Tacoma 4 cyl 5 spd in mpgs.
3. Getting out of full sized trucks? Most C4C people are switching from trucks to cars and going for 61% higher mileage on average. Not many are chasing a few mpg differential. Sales tax will eat up the first few mpg anyone tries to save through a switch.
Best think that one through.
I have thought it through and think you are wrong. We are only going to sell so many vehicles. We are not going to sell at the peak years of 2005-07 again. Probably never. We are in the same mode Japan is in. Less and less people buying personal transportation. We are not going to see the same standard of living enjoyed in the past. The Democrats are hell bent on cutting our standard to accommodate their thirst for more tax dollars. After all how can they afford 8 new super biz jets if they don't get more tax dollars? Of course the fear mongers will push out the figures to suit their agenda. I do not believe the D2 will impact 4.7 million jobs. Though we continue to send more and more to our debtor Nations of Japan and China. Whatever the market grows to, the automakers that survive will be able to offer the consumer some choice. Though we have never had the choice of the third world and the EU. What ever is left in the USA will be what jobs are available. I don't expect the UAW to survive the competition. I don't see how GM can survive as leader without products that people want to buy. I think Ford proved in this C4C they are survivors. I would hate to see all 3 go down the drain. GM and Chrysler do not deserve to survive with the way they have operated. I hate seeing our tax dollars wasted on a bunch of poor management and UAW featherbedders.
Heck, even when you factor out purchase price, everything else has gone up. For instance, in the 5 years I've been in my house, electric rates have not quite doubled, from about 9 cents per KWH to around 17. I remember my property tax bill in 2004 was $2356. For 2009 it's 3289...a 40% jump. But wait, it gets worse. The only reason it's that cheap is because they cap property taxes if ifs your personal residence. My tax credit this year is $1191. If I sold the place, the new owner would get accelerated up to the full tax bill...$4481 for the first year, although it might get capped a bit in the second if the assessed value goes up too fast.
And, to put it in perspective, I've seen an old tax bill for this place from 1961. Back then it was a whopping $200 per year. Now, I know we've had inflation and all since 1961, but things have not shot up 22.4X since then! Maybe more like 7-7.5X.
So, right off the bat, even if you had a house, free-and-clear, your other expenses today are much more than they were 40-50 years ago.
It began when the government began taking Native American lands based on a political decision and gave those lands to new white immigrants from Europe. This is the way our country has been run right or wrong.
You started a sentence about cost of the program and never finished the thought. The thought that you began is demonstrably wrong. Thus your conclusion is equally wrong.
"Hey maybe things are not as bad as some would have us believe. Look real buyers are buying real vehicles in huge numbers. Maybe I too can venture outside again. Maybe our cold dark winter is finally beginning to end."
I ran some numbers tonight and financially, I'm back to roughly where I was this time in 2007. So, maybe things really are getting better, especially when you consider that, this time in 2007, we weren't in a recession yet. You could kinda smell it in the air, like we knew it was coming, but there were still a few good months before the economy started slipping.
FWIW, I'd buy a new car if I thought I really needed one. Just don't happen to need one...yet.
It'a amazing how wrong you can get every post.
You can't compare a 4 cylinder super base tacoma, I assume regular cab and 2wd cause of Florida, to a fully loaded extended cab six cylinder SR5 model. I think the Tacoma I was talking about had the TRD locking rear diff too.
The Tacoma I was referring to had a MSRP over 20,000 when it was new probably close to 24,000..
He proposed the Interstate Highway system based on his excellent military background knowing that everything in a modern army/national economy runs on an efficient distribution system. The Interstate Highway system is owned by the Federal Gov't. It is the primary means of distribution of goods in the US.
Definition of socialism:
Socialism refers to any one of various theories of economic organization advocating state, public or common worker ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a more egalitarian method of compensation.
It was EISENHOWER that really turned out society into a socialist one....or maybe he was simply concluding the work that FDR started. :shades:
if this was a regular recession I would agree with you but this was hardly a regular recession. We were on the edge of a depression by the looks of all the data. Say what you want about Bernanke but he probably knows more about The Great Depression then anyone else alive and I will take his word on how close things got.
As usual you've hijacked it to continue promoting your rejected neo-con viewpoint and generally to spread your negative outlook on life. Give it a brake! As in brake. Aye...