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There are so many farm programs and subsidies for various farming techniques and crop prices..., are you sure you didn't receive any? I am aware that through the decades those farm supports were taken over by the big farm companies who have lots of money to lobby the poor congressmen, especially compared to the Farm Bureau type groups representing small farms. But...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
> Our water prices are killing us here. I am planning to pull out about half my fruit trees this winter. We get fined if we do not cut back on our water usage.
As to water useage, our water in the county is now purchased from wells held by the City of Dayton because they have wells in a huge aquifer under the rivers. The county water system charged a huge penalty about 15 years ago during a drought summer for increasing useage in a quarter such as people watering lawns during that quarter. Amazingly a few miles away people directly on Dayton water were using that water for lawns at NO penalty. They were using the same water. The county system already marked up the water about 80% before reselling it. The businesses in the periphery of Dayton had green lawns while outlying people generally just let the lawns get so dry so long they were damaged.
The San Diego water sounds like government controlling things. Probably the way health care would be managed (more than it already is) if it is crammed through by government. We can see how well they set up the clunker program. It had unintended benefit to some and got some well-off clunker owners to trade early; however it didn't benefit by getting the persistent and highly used clunkers off the road by those who hadn't owned them for a year or hadn't kept insurance or didn't have the money for a new car albeit subsidized slightly with stimulus profit potential for the dealers more than the consumer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And on farming subsidies, I'm sorry but you just have no idea what you're talking about. The only way you've not been a beneficiary of the farming subsidies would be if you either do not eat anything or grow 100% of what you consume. Here are two examples:
At http://farm.ewg.org/farm/ (click No Thanks on the front page to access the data) you can see subsidies by state. From the 2008 summary:
Taxpayers sent $13.4 billion in farm subsidies to more than 1.4 million recipients in 2006, according to a new update of the Environmental Working Group's Farm Subsidy Database website.
The new data bring the 12-year subsidy total tracked online by EWG to more than $177 billion. Over that period, 10 percent of the beneficiaries collected 75 percent of all subsidy payments.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy: "Between 1996 and 2002, an average of $16 billion/year was paid by programs authorized by various U.S. farm bills dating back to the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933, the Agricultural Act of 1949, and the Commodity Credit Corporation (created in 1933), among others."
The farmers in Michigan that grow corn are also doing okay thanks to ethanol subsidies and the use of ethanol in place of MTBE in gasoline.
Hyundai/KIA built their Tech Center two miles from my house, GE is building a battery factory in an closed Visteon Plant and even Toyota built a Tech Center in Ann Arbor Michigan.
Hmmm, mortgage interest tax deduction is for Everyone that owns a home. Not special interest groups. The $8k tax deduction for first time buyers has been helpful in San Diego. 1 out of every 3 homes sold came under that program. It did not stimulate the construction. 9 out of 10 home sold are owned by the bank or are in the process of foreclosure. Getting a home loan for a property that is not bank owned is nearly impossible. I know because I have had a home on the market for over two years. Many people were interested. Just did not have the $100k down payment required by the banks. Most of the sales are still cash purchases well below market value by investors.
When I bought my MN farm in 1976 I heard all about these great subsidies for farmers. I can tell you if you are a small farmer in MN it was a joke. The only program I subscribed to was the crop loan. That ended up costing me money. 1979 I sold my corn to the farm bank in the fall. Actually I got a loan on 80% of the crop value. When I sold the crop in the spring at a slightly higher price, the difference did not cover the interest I paid on the loan. I think if your website delved deep into the whole farm subsidy business you would find it is corporate welfare for mega ag companies and the little farmer is treated like dirt. Unless it has changed dramatically from the late 1970s. Of course the small tobacco farmers make out like bandits. I would gladly take Federal money to not grow any crops. That is not an option that I have found. I rent the land to a neighbor to cover my taxes each year. Check with some of the small farmers (under 200 acres) around you and see if any of them are getting subsidies. If the government has not destroyed all the small farmers.
There you are right. They tax the crap out of many corporations. If you make a profit in this country the Feds try their best to take it from you. If you don't they may give you money to keep afloat. If you are in the select group of the year. So yes they stick their nose into to gain control. Has nothing to do with helping business compete with foreign countries. Many mandates in the last couple years by this Congress have destroyed jobs in this country and sent the manufacturing to China and elsewhere.
Think CFLs and Condoms.
In Brazil diesel costs about half the price of gas. That keeps the prices of goods down.
Meanwhile, gas is expensive, so people tend to drive the most efficient car that meets their needs.
Face it, bitter GOPers - you lost, your guys offer nothing better, and for virtually everyone, no matter who you choose, you lose.
If I want a car- I'll wait until the market adjusts without the CFC scam.
The tax RATE is high, but what they ACTUALLY pay is much less than their rate. That's where the wool is over the public's eyes. You see this deceptive statistic quoted time and time again. Many many corporations pay no tax at all in America.
In reality, and this includes automakers, we the public pay the taxes by being charged more for the goods.
And sometimes, we get charged but the corporations don't pay anyway.
The Internal Revenue Service estimates that corporations illegally avoided $32 billion in taxes in 2001.
This may prove to be the next big financial scandal of the 21st century.
We'll see. In the meantime, the government will not allow the D3 to fail, as this would be catastrophic for the economy.
How long will they support the D3? I think they would even nationalize them, for a time, then return them to privatization, or some of them.
Not much other choice really.
Mullaly has to be a bit careful about what he says or he'll be facing SEC action or a shareholder suit.
"One by one, they trundled and coughed their way into the nation’s car dealerships: Astro minivans with aqua pinstripes, low-slung Buick Centuries, Chevy Tahoes in that slightly chlorinated dark green of the late 1990s, all headed for the junkyard of history."
Scrambling for Deals as ‘Clunkers’ Winds Down (TheLedger.com)
http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/economy/high-corporate-tax-rate-is-misleadin- g-22463/
Between 2000 and 2005, U.S. corporate taxes amounted to 2.2% of the GDP. The average for the 30 mostly rich member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was 3.4%.
Yes the government regulates almost every industry; so yes they are involved. But many industries don't receive much or any subsidies from the government. Now we're not going to see here and micro-analyze "subsidize"; but think C4C as the definition of subsidy here.
Remove government support from our industries and this country would collapse
No. There are many companies in many industries that don't receive subsidies like C4C. I worked in the chemical industrial and I've never seen the government subsidizing my employer like C4C.
The reason many companies don't locate to China or Mexico and such is because of intellectual property they don't want spread to competitors. So if you have a formula or undisclosed technology (many companies don't issue patents on their best technologies) then you are likely to keep the information and processes here in the U.S. Also believe it or not many U.S. plants have better quality than Mexican or Chinese plants for various reasons, and high-value products have run into problems when sent out of the country. Even customer-service operations have run into trouble when out-sourced as Dell ran into. It is items like toasters and clothing ... that are fairly easily copied and made that are successfully outsourced. Also many bulky low-value items such as mined and agriculture products are made near where they are consumed.
Autos though are just another commodity these days.
I know you can purchase better quality items here but why do people shop at Walmart because the items are cheap.
I thought Dell had move it support to the Philippines, I know IBM and Cisco support is overseas Brazil and India.
I think government subsidies and incentives distort rationale pricing. Off the lot car prices went up during C4C just as housing and things related to it are artifically high because of tax policy. If you couldn't write off mortgages, people would likely become less leveraged in what they buy. Also, do you think things like doors, windows and plumbing fixtures would cost nearly as much if the US wasn't so tax and incentive geared to housing?
I believe a modified flat tax would be an improvement over our current system. Setup a few tax brackets based on income with no deductions. It would not only be fairer to everyone without the preferences, but would help take away the resulting market distortions as well. Neither party really wants this because it would hurt lobbyist money. The Dems claim its unfair to the poor and favors the rich, while the Republicans insist a flat tax must be one rate only. I think perhaps 3 rates, maybe x% up to $100K, income from 100K - 250K at y% and z% on any thing higher gives some traditional tax progressivity, while not falsely favoring special interests, nor heavily penalizing those who become financially successful.
As to Ford, I fear they could become a potential Studebaker down the road despite the current good news. They are deeply leveraged and BK gave GM and Chrysler a huge cost advantage as well as a better UAW deal. The UAW is balking at evening the scorecard because of Ford's current good times. I think Ford might have more strongly considered the BK route if it wasn't for the potential to take away the current status where the Ford family controls the company with only a small portion of the actual stock.
Mullaly has to be a bit careful about what he says or he'll be facing SEC action or a shareholder suit.
Exactly right as the CEO of a public company what he says in public must be carefully considered.
How do you feel everytime you see a new Chevy Camaro (Canada), Ford Fusion (Mexico), or Chrysler PT Cruiser (Mexico)? Or a Dodge Ram (Mexico) or Chevy Silverado (Canada)? Any different from when you see a new Toyota Camry (Kentucky) or Corolla (California), Honda Accord (Ohio), Mazda 6 (Michigan), Hyundai Sonata (Alabama), or BMW X3 (South Carolina)? How about a Mercedes ML-class (Alabama)?
You must spend your entire life cringing. I feel sorry for you.
Well, many of us are.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You must spend your entire life cringing. I feel sorry for you.
Ahh you beat me to it not that I think pointing that out this person or using a reasoned argument will actually have any effect.
The Z4 used to be made in Spartunburg, SC too but is now made in Europe. Also I think you mean the X5 not the X3. Unless they changed it when they brought out the new model X3 the X3s I have sold were made in Austria.
Kia/Hyundai has plants in Alabama and Georgia and a Tech Center in Michigan.
Grrr stop typing faster then me. I just don't have time to correct all these people.
For the entire run of this program the majority of cars purchased were built in the US.
US owned brands.
>Chevy Camaro (Canada), Ford Fusion (Mexico), or Chrysler PT Cruiser (Mexico)? Or a Dodge Ram (Mexico) or Chevy Silverado (Canada)?
Foreign owned companies.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That was over a year ago and but I don't talk to my Rover reps as often now that I am mostly doing Volvos.
So the question I would pose to you all is:
Should the US government have bailed out the horse and buggy manufacturers at the turn of the last century? How about cash for clunkers for buggy whips?
That was a major industry and caused tremendous dislocation and Creative Destruction.
Mr Shiftright our gracious host has stated repeatedly that not helping the big three would be a dissaster.
Is it possible that were are creating a larger problem by not allowing the market to work? Are we simply causing arterial sclerosis of our economy by stopping change.
After all captial and resources are not destroyed, they are simply reallocated to more efficient use?\
Who is to say that the future wealth creation in the US with be Nano tech or some other wonderful industry that we cannot even imagine.
There always seems to be a battle between those who want stassis (planning), vs. those who want a dynamic (free), economy.
So how has central planning worked out for the banking industry?, Real Estate?, Railroad, Health Care?????? Our largeest disasters in our economy is where we have had the most planning. There is not industry more planned and regulate than our financial industry. How has that worked out?
The last bastion of freedom in the US seems to be technology and I love to shop at Best Buy where everything gets faster, better and cheaper all the time. That is the way a free market works. Better Faster Cheaper.
Did you know that Walgreens is now offering free medical care?
Cash for Clunkers is economic mal practice and this type of bail out meddling will turn what would have been a bad recession into the Greater Depression.
But there are a few posts that made me wonder, one post said this was a program that was taking money away from the working person and giving it to the non-worker, and another said that they hoped it was mostly taxpayers buying the cars with the credit (since this is money that will have to be paid back by the taxpayer).
My question is do you really think there are a lot of people that don't work out buying a new car? And that goes the same for being a taxpayer and buying. To buy a new car you have to have income, and usually to have enough income to save the cash or to get a loan you are going to be a taxpayer. I am just confused by this.
I do wonder if there will be some people overextended and we might see an increase in re-pos in the coming year.
Yes, I did trade in my '89 van with 14 mpg (that was when it was new, who knows what it got now), and I bought '09 Honda Fit. This is our first NEW car. And for those that say "my taxpayers $ went to help you buy a new car", well, my taxpayers dollars did too.
As someone that has always bought used cars, I do worry about how this will affect that market also.
Wow- good timing on that point.
#2 Child spent the summer in research at University, bought and paid for with tax money, with multiple corporations waiting on a result.
There was a result.
Now who will profit? I'll make a safe bet it won't be the taxpayer.
Well, its already been a few hours since you posted, but dealerships aren't even open yet, so I'll post anyway.
First, going from a $0 down 5-year lease to a $4200 down 3-year lease could just about happen all on its own, I think, without the clunker cash coming into play. If you put down a clunker for a 5-year lease, I sure hope the payment is incredibly cheap.
Second, there is little to no chance the buyout on your old lease was $8300 if the car will really be listed for $15k. Was that previous lease expired? Or did you still owe payments? If it was worth so much, you could have traded it and had positive equity, which is EXTREMELY rare in a lease situation.
Lastly, if the truck was in husband's business name and you used it to lease a vehicle in your daughter's name, then yes, it is a problem and the truck can't be used in the clunker program. But someone at the dealership should have realized this before the deal was done.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
" to begin with. We asked if vehicle could be leased in business name - they said clunker could not be done for businesses - is that true? The rest you know. Can they now take all back unless we pay them money? Daughter is devastated. On invoice of sale they did put subject to approval which makes me think it is a scam, because my husband was there earlier in day (Thursday) and registration had expired on truck in march, and then they said they had to "check it out" if it would still be ok. My husband went to DMV next morning and they said it would go in as continuous since it was within the same year (they just wanted the money), and because the insurance was still effective (error that the registration expired). So, again, on Friday, later in day, Nissan called and said it was "approved". Then vehicle was not picked up until SATURDAY, when paperwork was signed, even though it had been dated for the day before. Then we received call yesterday. Something does not seem right. Maybe it does not "qualify", but I feel like we were SET UP, and I do not know how to handle this. Have you heard of anything like this, and I do not know how to handle this, and need some kind of advice. Thank you.
Not many options here, either pay up the $4200 or undo the deal. If I were you, I'd take it back and undo the deal.
Kargbo couldn't qualify for temporary assistance for needy families because she didn't have an address. She asked for subsidized housing but must wait until Sept. 10 for an appointment to apply.
For six months, the family has lived in Kargbo's Chevy Cavalier — two in the front, two in the back — in Southeast Washington, one of the poorest quarters of the city.
At night, Kargbo fears for her girls. Men have approached the car and asked for lewd sex acts. Ann Hawkins, a social worker from the neighborhood, brings Kargbo food, helps her pay to keep her phone on so prospective employers can call and allows Kargbo and her girls to shower at her house.
"Why in Washington, D.C., in the nation's capital, is a woman and her three children in a car?" Hawkins asked. "They refill that 'cash for clunkers' program, no problem. That money should go to her, to the homeless."
The whole story
You will have to unwind the deal. Take back your truck and the Civic. I have a feeling they might play nice, though, if you are going to take back the Civic, if in fact they felt they were going to make so much money on it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"Cash for Clunkers is economic mal practice and this type of bail out meddling will turn what would have been a bad recession into the Greater Depression."
But this person recovers and sees the error of their ways, becomes fitter, cuts out the fat, focuses on things that make them a more healthy being and contribute to society.
The industry still needs to morph and work hard at being competitive. It needs to change. It doesnt need to die. This heart massage, "Cash for clunkers" may have given the industry its lease of life.
As regards this huge recession?.....remember another great depression, dark and gloomy? we are un 2009 Q3 with a good chance of positive GBP and Japan, Germany and France already out?
The car industry in another form and safed by cash for clunkers may still be the engine that gets the midwest out of a deep hole.
But that poster probably has an MBA from Harvard so knows much much better......of wait...didn't people like that all work for Lehman as well?
CARS FAQ
Will it take 24 hours for someone (Hyundai?) to start an ad campaign along the lines of "we'll still take your clunker"?
I predict something novel, like "Your trade is worth $3,500 to us whether you have to push, pull, or tow it in! And we'll pay off your trade, no matter HOW MUCH YOU OWE!!!
SO COME ON DOWN!!! Have we got a deal for you!!" :P
We still have plenty of Saabs that would qualify for the old program and their is big money back on them so ehhh you could sort of make it work kind of but not really.
I take it you did not decide what you were looking for? Nothing really appeals to me, other than a Porsche Carrera. Wife says I am too old. :sick:
If automakers could put anti-gravity transmographiers into their Chevy Cobalts, then I'd agree with you.
But there is no where for the D3 to go except a) to a leaner, more competitive business model or b) to the grave.
So the government can either help them get healthy or let them die, and the government has chosen the former.
It may, in time, choose the later, but not now, with all these other messes going on.
We are in the worst recession in 80 years right now. That means that the vast majority of Americans are in something they have never experienced before.
That alone suggests caution in making decisions like "like 'em die".
If anything, the GOPers should be happy...with the inability of the feds to process the claims in a timely manner, it pretty much proves they would be wholly unable to handle a healthcare system
The question is "has C4C run out of gas in the middle of the desert"
or
"has C4C just gone it for an oil change and will reappear later in fresh new clothing"?
I'm betting on the latter.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Didn't find the right car. Not only are we picky, but my wife's broken leg isn't mending as fast as it should so we may have to cross manual transmissions off the list.
We did talk to an xD driver at a stoplight yesterday and she really likes hers (they got two of them on the same day in fact and these weren't clunker deals). But if I have to get an automatic, may as well hold out for a Prius CVT and play with hypermiling instead. But yeah, the fever is still bubbling along.
I want you to think about this statement and tell me if our government is not brain dead.
Kargbo couldn't qualify for temporary assistance for needy families because she didn't have an address.
She's homeless. How many homeless people have an address? The Feds need to get the programs they currently have worked out and somewhat free from fraud. Then talk about health care. If they had this much trouble handing out $3 billion on C4C, what kind of problems are they having with $800 billion stimulus? Our government is Broken and leaderless. Unless you consider Barry, Pelosi and Reid competent. And I don't think McCain would have done much better with his basic ideology.
Well maybe in November, they can at least get some helicopters and do a Thanksgiving Day Turkey Drop to feed the hungry. :P