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I see no problems with it. If buyer is stupid, than he or she will buy a "label" instead of car. Smart buyer understands that cars could be new or used, woman can't be slightly pregnant, car can't be new and slightly used :shades:
Customers want to take advantage of this program. They trade in their clunker, the Toyota dealer submits the paperwork and doesn't get paid in a timely fashion.
That makes them "greedy"?
The dealers are doing what is predictable: they are making up for the slow times some brands had after November when the g'ment announced two companies might go bankrupt and people quit buying those brands. Sales for many other dealers in parts of the country have been very slow. There's an opportunity to hold prices up to gain more profit because customers see only the $3500/$4500 of OPM (other people's money) being paid on their behalf.
The sad part is this $3 billion will probablly do more than the approximately 1/3 of the $900 billion pork bill that was actually stimulus in stimulating the economy. This is the kind of program that should have been passed by congress in January to stimulate instead of the mess they passed. This is direct money. Although it covers purchase of cars built in other countries outside North America, it still goes to salespeople ( a little bit) and to the other workers in the food chain involved in selling, hauling, and dismantling the clunkers. And part of it does go to auto assemblers of the whole car and the people making lots of parts in little shops around the country which go into those cars build in North America. Thus there is a lot of stimulation of the economy going on--much better than paying researchers to learn more about Pelosi's favorite mouse (not Mickey).
The negative is that some clunkers driven by people who don't own their car and don't hold the titles to make a quick trade will still be on the road. Some of those people may not have kept insurance on their car. I picture them as the hardworking folks at low-paying jobs who are barely getting by--a _new car_ payment is often out of the question. If clunker cash had been available for buying a more efficient used car, there might have been help for them in the program.
But those people's cars may be driven more and pollute more than the ones traded in by the relatively well off folk who have been able to take advantage of the program. Kdhyspyder said early in this discussion that most people buying were cash buyers, which I found hard to believe. However clearly he was right.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's all about business with a capital B. People who were a day late and a dollar short just need to ramp it up next time IMO.
As for those who got kicked out of eligibility---well that's a legitimate gripe, no question!
A guy at one one of my other forums who is extremely against C4C and has been raging against it for months went and took some pictures at some local dealerships.
He wanted to show what good cars were being destroyed at the CARS program.
I had to call him out because a third of the cars he claimed were being Clunked wouldn't qualify as clunkers. They were either too old, one was a VW Thing, or got too good of gas mileage, a last gen Saab 9-3 for example, and the dealer could not use them as Clunkers.
I called him out because I thought he was being deceptive. He has stretched the truth before when trying to prove his point so I wouldn't put it past him.
He swears up and down that all the cars he took pictures of were marked as clunkers and even went so far as to ask some of the people working there if they were clunkers.
He says those pictures were from five different dealerships.
Now if even a quarter of the dealerships are being that stupid to try and clunk cars that absolutely don't qualify no wonder the system is all screwed up. Its pretty simple of the vehicle doesn't get 18 or less combined it is not eligible at all.
I still don't know for sure if all those cars he took pictures of were really clunkers. Most of them still had plates on them and very few had any writing that said CLUNKER on the windows.
Deceptive dealer practices? Or idiotic customers easily manipulated?
I know a few dealers around the NE are stopping the program also.... they just have too money riding on it.... And the people we are getting these last few days are bottom feeders, not all of them but most are. It just takes twice the amount of time. Ya know what kills me is no one seems to be bringing the vehicles either... Looking forward to September... The program may be over by than
GP
My SIL and her family did a C4C with their old, maybe 1994, Exploder. It was the very definition of a clunker. Their 25 year old daughter had it finishing up her masters. She now has a new Fit and a $200 a month payment.
The Thing probably got too good mileage as well.
Some stores in my area have stopped now.
I was trying to find out which Toyota dealer but Orange Country seems to have a couple and of course Gagrice never bothers to cite what he posts...
. . . assuming you happen to have one of the six rust-free ones on the planet. . .
David Wilson, a Toyota dealer in Orange County, Calif., told Automotive News that he has been paid for only three of 92 claims he submitted before Aug. 2, leaving him on the hook for about $374,000. In total, he has 450 unpaid claims filed for $1.9 million.
Rest of the story
Banks seem to be in a good position to profit off this program as well.
You could have gotten a better deal without a clunker of this legislation months ago.
Dealerships are the ultimate scumbags.
No worries, though - when new car sales absolutely plunge again, and they will - take that to the bank and slam the vault shut - the new car deals will be bigger and better than ever.
Anyone absolutely not having to buy now would be foolish not to wait. :shades:
Do you think prices will plunge again after CFC? I assumed they would just be low in inventory.
Do we know when CFC will end?
Thanks!
'Clunkers' Program Costing Wounded Vets, Other Needy People Millions in Aid (Green Car Advisor)
YES!!!! Prices will be way below. Don't worry about inventory 2010 is coming:-) Smart shoppers are waiting
Ouch, pretty harsh, no?
It's been a buyer's market for years, with the exception of a very select few hot models.
Dealers have been selling new cars at basically zero profit for a decade or so.
Now that supply is short, the supply/demand curve shifts in their favor, for the first time in ... decades? And you conclude they are scumbags?
If you worked at a dealership, would you continue to sell cars at invoice, and lose more money, even when you're running out of cars to sell?
That's just nuts.
I wouldn't be too sure they're owners.
"Now that there is plenty of money in the program and the most eager shoppers have already participated, the sense of urgency is gone, and the pace of intent decline is accelerating," said Edmunds.com Chief Executive Jeremy Anwyl. " Inventories are getting lean and prices are climbing, giving consumers reasons to sit back."
Edmunds.com: Sales Activity From 'Clunkers' Is Fading Fast (CNN Money)
Hmm, demand is down ... so what does GM do?
GM to boost output due to clunkers incentives (Yahoo)
Must be fun being an auto prognosticator at the automakers.
C4C did allow factory orders, though.
You gotta figure Toyota is just about sold out of them now and gas around here is still in the upper two dollar range.
Used MINIs are like late-model used Hondas.... rarely a good buy..
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Prius prices will start to fall. Not bargain basement you understand, but the "take it or leave it" days are soon to be over IMO.
But there are big Toyota dealers all over Orange County - what's that huge one right by the 405 near where it joins up with the 5?
In other fun...
Toyota passes GM as most-popular clunkers buy
August 17, 2009 - 12:49 pm ET
Toyota Motor Corp. has overtaken General Motors Co. as the top manufacturer of new vehicles purchased under the U.S. cash-for-clunkers program.
Toyota made 18.9 percent of all new vehicles whose clunkers deals had been submitted, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in its second report on the incentive. GM accounted for 17.6 percent as of Friday, down from 18.7 percent on Aug. 5, when the initial tally was released.
The Toyota Corolla remained the top new car purchased. The Honda Civic passed the front-wheel-drive Ford Focus as No. 2. The No. 9 Nissan Versa and No. 10 four-wheel-drive Honda CR-V bumped out the Chevrolet Cobalt and inventory-depleted Dodge Caliber in the top 10.
As of Friday, dealers had submitted 358,851 deals for the clunkers initiative, which gives consumers vouchers of up to $4,500 for trading in gas guzzlers for new vehicles with better fuel economy. Those deals were worth about $1.5 billion in voucher reimbursements, or half the $3 billion in U.S. funds allocated for the incentive.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20090817/ANA05/908179988/1078/ANA02
(registration link)
Some Toyota dealers around here now look quite seriously like they are going out of business. Just a handful of vehicles on the lot, all big trucks. If you pull up the article, it has a nifty little chart showing all the stats. It must be some comfort to Toyota to know that Camry is the #4 most purchased car in a C4C deal, while there no other midsize sedans in the top 10 at all.
And the won't-be-missed Explorer 4WD is the most clunked model of all, just as it was at the start of the program.
Interestingly, the Big 6 all fall pretty much in their order in the overall market for sales, except #5 which goes to Chrysler. Nissan, which handily outdoes Chrysler in sales the rest of the time, isn't in the top 5 for makers of vehicles purchased in a C4C deal.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If you think about it, a C4C deal on one of those $9995 Versas gives you the biggest discount, nearly 50% off. Imagine paying $5500 for a new car.
I realize A/C costs extra, but add that and you're still near $6 grand, even at retail.
Once again Ford and Hyundai, who seem to be calling everything right these days, jumped right on it.