What Does Subaru Know That Others Don't?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Brake discs are as big as the rims on my van.

    Change the side mirrors and build that sucker!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    how much? If it's anything like an optioned-up MINI convertible, it's going to bust $30K, no problem.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Check the date on the post.
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    Of course they met that NEW standard - it's a brand new vehicle. The IIHS didn't start testing for this until very recently and I would expect a brand new model to pass it. BTW, did anyone notice that Toyota asked for the RAV to not be tested to give it time to change it's design?

    The IIHS does a very good job of getting manufacturers to build safer cars. But I feel that they are starting to get a little too picky. First it was the head on test. Then it was the offset test. Now's it the partial offset test. What's next??
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    DOH!

    You know, a few years ago the idea would have seemed whacky, but nowadays with everyone scrambling for the "next new thing", life has come to not only imitate satire, but render it dead.

    After the Smart Car, I came to believe everything I hear. :P
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited September 2013
    41+ thousand new vehicles left dealerships this month.

    Up from just 28 thousand a year ago!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It would be higher if they had more supply, too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/27/iihs-introduces-new-test-for-avoiding-crashes- /

    Subaru came out on top with Legacy and Outback models equipped with EyeSight avoiding collisions at both speeds
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    This is an interesting quote from the article:

    "At 12 mph, the damage to both vehicles was $5,715"

    That's rather absurd, don't you think?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Malibu was totalled when the Benz hit it at 25. Yikes.

    Thing is, with crumple zones, the cars are designed to accordion. So the passenger cell stays intact but the cars suffers severe {energy absorbing} damage.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Yeah, but 12 mph...GEEZ....I wonder if an air bag would even deploy at that speed?

    Surely Subaru and others can design better bumpers than this.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2013
    You can probably get one or the other, but not both. Meaning the best crumple zones possible, or sturdy bumpers.

    I recall there used to be a bumper basher tests, and the Ford Escort of the 1980s suffered $0 damage.

    I wouldn't want to get in a wreck, though!

    12mph is not that slow. You've got a couple of tons of mass that have to come to a full stop in about a foot or two.

    Edit: also, $5700 was the damage to both vehicles (a Benz C and a Malibu, not a Subie). So about half that per car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Those Ford accordion bumpers were apparently pretty good. Would be interesting to see if the Malibu had hit the C, if results would have been reversed.

    I've seen that Subaru system, it looks like a couple of old camcorder lenses stuck at the top inside windshield near the rear view mirror. I wonder if any are bought. I wonder who got this ball rolling - MB had it back around 2000-2001 I think, maybe not the best thing as it might encourage distraction.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Aesthetically it is ridiculously big. They need to shrink it down, and then get the cost down to where they can put it in more models.

    Hopefully insurance companies will offer big discounts for those systems and they'll pay for themselves.

    I'm all for it given the number of already-distracted drivers on the road.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    I'm just afraid people will think "my car will save me, time to fire up the in-dash combination cotton candy maker/deep fryer and text my bff while I'm waiting".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    As if they're not already doing all that stuff, all while doing each other's hair. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    I guess if anything, Subaru drivers (locally anyway) seem less likely to goof off while driving than those in say larger SUVs, or middle agers in highline cars who lack the capacity to sync bluetooth.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Subaru is very high on the list of one of the most likely cars to get a speeding ticket...2.5X the average.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Take the 23 year old kid in a WRX out of the mix, and I'd imagine the number goes the other way. Here, the rest of the lineup is for fairly quiet middle aged types, or earthy boomers.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    It's not about being racy apparently--even MORE likely are the Camry and the Scion xB of all things.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    No comment about the Camry and the newbie drivers here who love them...oops :)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited October 2013
    VW - 314,833
    Subaru - 313,407

    Monthly:
    VW - 31,920
    Subaru - 31,755

    Sept. 2013

    For reference, here is Subaru in 2009:
    Subaru stats for 2008 - 2009

    Yearly sales Sept. 2009 - 158,421 (Up from 143,788 in 2008)
    Monthly sales Sept. 2009 - 14,593 (Up from 14,491 in 2008)

    So Subaru has literally "Doubled" its sales in just 4 years... :shades:
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    Very interesting, and very revealing. VW is trying to become the number one car company in the world, but their sales numbers here in the USA are being equaled by Subaru, who is a very small player on the world stage.

    Subaru seems to be doing something right, and VW seems to be doing something wrong (at least as far as the USA is concerned).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Amazingly they manage that without good in-cabin tech and with many important models missing common features like Direct Injection.

    They'll never have the deep pockets that VW has, but it would make sense to use Toyota's supply chain for things that don't affect the driving experience, like Entune, climate control (ask any Subaru owner about HAL), etc.

    With the BRZ they were even able to help in the engine bay.

    Subaru is small so let's see them use a bit more leverage to grow from this point, because now they're competing with Goliaths.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I agree with everything you said. Definitely don't expect them to have as deep a pockets as the Germans but what they have done over the past few years is nothing short of incredible to me. Especially being a 2 time owner who bought my first Subie when there was talk here at Edmunds about a bleak future with falling profits and sales (almost run out of business by the scum of GM).

    So glad that situation was averted by the upcoming GM bankruptcy as well as the partial stake bought by Toyota...

    Next thing that Subie needs to do IMO would be a replacement for the long forgotten, over-the-hill Tribeca and IMO I think Subie would make a killing with an AWD minivan in the lineup...
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    Next thing that Subie needs to do IMO would be a replacement for the long forgotten, over-the-hill Tribeca and IMO I think Subie would make a killing with an AWD minivan in the lineup...

    I can't disagree with those thoughts! I really think they ought to push to get their diesel engine certified in the US. Even if they re-invent the Tribeca and/or being a minivan over here, I just don't think they'll compete well in those markets unless they can distinguish themselves with something unique (no, AWD in the minivan market is not unique, though it is limited to one other model right now).

    It used to be that Subaru offered a price advantage when one looked at the content vs other competitors, but i don't think that is nearly so much the case any longer. They certainly don't offer eye-popping fuel economy (yes, AWD is great, but you have to pay for it, too), especially with big sedans creeping back up into the mid-to-high 30s these days.

    Unfortunately, if Subaru were to go through the expense of engineering the emissions and certifying the diesel only to offer it in, say, the Forester, they'd likely have to price it at a level that would not attract a huge number of buyers. Push it out into other models, especially larger ones, though, and I think it could be a real winner. Let the partnership with Toyota really pay off; they can do the hybrid tech and let Subaru lead the way with diesel.

    Get that diesel over here and go places with it, Subaru!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What's tough is they have the $1500 or so AWD cost penalty, so to add a diesel cost penalty on top of that would be a double whammy.

    Their current diesel doesn't meet CARB, they would have to add urea injection and that would make it cost even more.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    Sounds good to me.

    Content any model with that engine at the top end, and put Forester ~$35K, Outback ~$38K, and a Tribeca replacement ~$43K. If they made a reasonably attractive minivan available and put it at a hair under $40K fully contented, I think it would perform well against the Sienna XLE AWD, even if Subaru's idea of "fully contented" isn't quite the same as Toyota's. ;-)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The diesel GLK 250 starts at $44k so that would come in $9k lower.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Base on that car is actually 40K, 45K or so with "normal" equipment, perhaps.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I actually searched CarGurus and picked the lowest price.

    Then again, this is Potomac...they're not equipping any of them below $44k for this market, I suppose.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Yeah, you usually have to special order a base. Germans know how to play the option game to maximize profit.
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    Might I respectfully request that you guys quote, at least a little, at least occasionally? I opened this topic, and the web browser shows me a page with 3 messages back and forth from fintail and ateixeira. Neither one quoted anything, and I don’t have a clue what car they are talking about. I feel rather like I am eavesdropping on a private conversation.

    Yes, I could go back a page, and then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to find out. But that wouldn’t be necessary if you would quote “just a little, just enough”, and more people might participate in these conversations if you made it a little easier for them.

    Thanks for your consideration.

    ON EDIT: I bet you guys are doing this from smartphones, aren’t you? Which makes it 10 times more difficult to quote.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We can change the subject to make it easier to follow.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds like there were really impressed with the (gulp) CVT in Sport Sharp mode.

    I'm glad that means something now. Early Sport Sharp modes only changed throttle mapping, to a less linear map, no less. Now it actually affects powertrain behavior.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-tribeca-production-to-end-in-january.html

    Hopefully the next iteration will be more stylish as well as get much better mileage on regular grade fuel (Or diesel).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So what will take its place? I think the Impreza will, but I wonder if the Forester is a better choice given the volume? Maybe both?
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    ...some news you're not sharing??
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    http://www.inautonews.com/report-subaru-to-double-us-capacity-and-end-camry-prod- uction#.UmlDjWfD8-U

    Subaru sales have been on a major upswing, not surprised that they no longer have excess capacity problems anymore...

    Article says they are making more room for Foresters which have been selling like hotcakes.
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    ...and the article also says they have not even started talks with Toyota to end Camry production.

    It will happen eventually. Toyota just has to find more space for the Camry.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    It says they currently produce Foresters there... ? I thought that plant was used for Outback and Legacy at this point. 100% of their Forester and Impreza sales came from imported vehicles the last I checked, so I wonder if something changed or if the article is mistaken about current production. It wouldn't surprise me if they started producing Forester to meet demands, I just don't think they are using it for that purpose now.

    Hey, maybe they'll produce their diesel Foresters for the NA market there! :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I read something in the last few months about how they were going to start producing Imprezas in the U.S. for the next generation in a couple of years. I assumed they were going to produce them at SIA, which will be impossible if they convert the Camry line to build Foresters. Perhaps they are also going to expand the plant?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    edited October 2013
    Possibly. But, if they build Foresters there, it may become a moot point as it could open up some capacity at the plant in Japan for more capacity on other vehicles (Impreza, XV, WRX). I mean, depending on how much capacity they actually attain with this move in Indiana.

    Clearly, though, if the trend continues (sales, that is), they're looking at more capacity needed *somewhere*.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if they use Impreza/Forester interchangeably since they can both be made on the same line?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    That'll probably be watered down about 70% for production... :(

    2015 Legacy Concept
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    Hahahahahhaaa!

    Yep, we're in for another five years of "meh."

    /facepalm
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    When Subaru and Toyota part ways in Indiana, the move could give Subaru capacity for up to 400,000 of its own vehicles annually, something it desperately needs if it intends to keep pace with current vehicle demand. Subaru is on a roll; this year, it is poised to outsell Volkswagen in the United States.
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