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All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback



  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    Thanks very much for the info. Very helpful as I am considering the 2010 Outback and definitely want heat in the seatbacks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You beat me to it, our Forester heats the buns and the back! :shades:
  • gjksngjksn Posts: 35
    Is there anybody else out there who thinks it's regrettable that Subaru has essentially abandoned station wagons? I love my 2003 Legacy wagon and chose Subaru specifically because it was a station wagon and had AWD. Wagons have always seemed like one of the backbones of Subaru's success -- similar to Volvo. I had a 2009 Outback recently while my car was being serviced, and it just didn't seem to have that hunkered down on the road feeling that my low-slung 2003 Legacy wagon has. And with the new 2010 Outback further into SUV territory, I wonder how many Subaru faithful out there lament the passing of wagons. The Forester is also much more SUV-like while the Impreza/WRX feels more like a hatchback than a station wagon.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 11,000
    I am right there with you. I miss the wagons, too. Granted, I still appreciated the sub-2010 Outbacks as wagons, even though they did sit higher than the Legacy, but they were very much a wagon while also giving the versatility of decent ground clearance.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You are not alone.

    No hurry out and go find a cherry used 2005 Legacy GT wagon with a manual trans while there are still some left.

    That was the epitome of a Subaru.
  • gjksngjksn Posts: 35
    I agree. If I'd known that Subaru was going to be coming out with the Legacy GT in 2005, I'd've waited a couple years instead of buying my 2003 on this very date in 2002. Nonetheless, when I think about replacing my '03, I realize how much more I like it when compared to the models available now. Maybe it was all those childhood years in Kingswood Estates and Town & Country's, but the design of wagons just makes sense to me. Oh well, the heightened chassis of the newer models will probably make it easier for aging knees getting it & out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Toyota Camry Hybrid.

    My old college roommate just bought one, it was very nice inside, like it in many ways, but I was surprised that it didn't have folding mirrors either.

    Not sure about regular Camrys.
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    Regular Camry's don't either. When I found out at the New York Auto Show that the new Outback didn't have folding mirrors, I was cognizant of this decontenting while looking at other cars at the show and was shocked to find that much of the competition don't have folding mirrors either... Camry, Mazda 6, Altima IIRC, and many more.

    I haven't corroborated my theory very far, but my working theory is that decision is based on whether the cars are domestically produced in North America, which don't need the folding mirrors to squeeze closer together on the freighters from Japan. That's why the Forester and Mazda 3 do have folding mirrors.

    Anyone care to dig deeper into this to see if my theory holds up with most other mid-size non-luxury family cars?


    Didn't know what thread to stick this into, but pretty funny...
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 11,000
    That is funny, and the quote by VonTesmar at the end of the article is absolutely correct.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Americans have never really cared much about folding mirrors, so why spend the money on them? I like them on my F150, because my garage is so small, but I never fold them on my VW or Suzuki (though I like the idea of having them). I guess the manufacturers research this stuff and determine where cost savings are unlikely to cost many sales.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Posts: 1,207
    Folding mirror, after folded, can avoid the passing cars accidentally scratch your driver side mirror in narrow road

    I experienced this once and had to make a run to junk yard to get the mirror and housing replaced or I cannot pass the yearly inspection.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Again, my point being that unlike Europe and Asia, few Americans drive on roads so narrow that they have to worry about folding mirrors in to avoid hitting something with one. I like the feature myself, as I like stability control. Even though I may never use it, it is nice to know it is there.
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    "...few Americans drive on roads so narrow that they have to worry about folding mirrors"

    gregg_vw: Is this your opinion or are you trying to pass this off as fact? Where is the data to support that few Americans care about folding mirrors?

    When I first saw the new Outback at the NY Auto Show in April, I was so disenchanted with the lack of folding mirrors that I almost considered it a deal breaker. As I walked down the streets of NY City after the show, I was cognizant of all the cars that were parked along the busy streets that had their mirrors folded. I would say that 75% of the cars were parked with their mirrors folded. And the ones that didn't were either clunkers, had fixed mirrors, or the mirrors were already broken off!

    Additionally, I live in the suburbs and have a decent sized two-car garage. But I have lots of stuff stored in the back, like my mountain bikes. It is a regular practice of mine to fold the mirrors so that I can squeeze past my Forester while carrying my bike over my head.

    In the end, I decided it wasn't a deal breaker and I bought an Outback, but now I have to begrudgingly get used to not having that very useful feature.

    I recognize that Subaru deleted them as a cost savings measure to be competitive with all the other mid-size cars that don't have folding mirrors, but I hope they consider the lash-back from loyal customers and re-add them in the mid-cycle refresh.

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Excuse me, Elliot, it is first of all obviously my opinion. Secondly, it is hardly important, and neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg if I am wrong. If you live in NYC, as in Europe, obviously you are going to care more about these things. But parking and driving there is a great deal different from much of the great expanse west of NYC. Big Subaru market areas include places like Vermont and Colorado and Wisconsin. That was my point, and I was merely wondering if the marketing geniuses at Subaru had taken a look and decided that on the whole, they could save a couple bucks on the mirrors, while still increasing sales (and profits)--even while alienating some potential customers. I don't really know. Lighten up there.
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    gregg_vw, sorry I came on a little strong, but I just have a huge pet peeve with people who post their opinions starting with "nobody in the U.S. cares about..." or "everybody should...".

    My point with the NYC example is that large cities comprise a large % of the U.S. population, so a LOT of Subaru's market will care about it in that case. You really shouldn't dismiss cities so fast.

    My point in my suburban garage example is that a LOT of people who don't live in big cities also care about this.

    If you've been reading the Outback/Legacy message boards here and on other places like NASIOC for a while, you'd see that the lack of folding mirrors are probably in the top 3 most cited complaints of the new models.

    Peace out,

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,175
    They should make the folding mirrors an option. That way they could satisfy people that really want them badly and also satisfy others that don't by reducing the cost for standard mirrors. They could actually make a little more money on them that way I would think.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Good point.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see folding mirrors in 2 or 3 years as part of a mid-cycle refresh.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It stands out because the 05-09 had them as well as turn signal lights on those same mirrors.

    So when the cost-cutting police start yelling about it, they have 2 things to complain about.

    I care because one side of my car port is a bit more narrow than the other, and we've hit the mirror a couple of times (with no damage done - they break away).

    I also parallel park in DC once in a while and even in my garage at work, so it sticks out and is more vulnerable.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It just proves photo radar is not about safety, it's about money

    Sums it up well.

    We had a discussion in the Cafe, or what is Meet the Members? The people who run it left out a clause that would not allow them to make certain offenders exempt from paying. Do as I say, not as I do.
  • I'm just curious. Why would one need an AWD in NY city? The terrain is flat and they plough the streets when it snows. I would think, with its added bulk the 2010 Outback would be a pain to parallel park in the busy/narrow streets there without the risk of damage.
  • Hmm, as a new Subaru convert, I don't see what is so lamentable about the phasing out of the station wagons of yesteryears. First of all, the 'station wagon' is an anachronism, given the demise of the train as a means of public transportation in the US long ago. The 2010 OB has better leg room which should be a welcome change from the cramped seating of the older models. It is higher, giving it a better off-road preparedness. It is more fuel efficient/ more powerful depending on the choice of engines. It is quieter with framed windows, stow-away cross bars, and lower rpm power delivery. Is it just fond nostalgia or something else? who needs a low-slung vehicle in a foot of snow or a field with large undulations?
  • steine13steine13 Posts: 2,562
    The pleasure of a vehicle that is just the right size.
    The old Honda Accord wagons were very sweet that way.
    The Buick Roadmaster, not so much.

  • red927red927 Posts: 118
    I liked that the turn signals were in the mirrors. My wife's '09 Legacy 3.0R Limited has them, as did her '06 Outback Sedan, and I find them to be an added safety feature. They used to be on the LL Bean Forester as well, but not anymore.

    As far as the folding mirrors go, have you ever pulled into a drive-in ATM or teller and noticed all of the paint that has been scraped off the mirrors of cars that pull in too close to the protective stanchions? When we have to get close, we just fold the driver's mirror and have no problems and no scratches on the mirror!

    Subaru, and other manufacturers, should just have the folding mirrors as standard equipment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The improved leg room is a seperate issue. They could still have a Legacy wagon with better leg room.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, fast food drive-thru windows as well. Funny to see they put those big round pillars there, and they get all worn out! :D
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 11,000
    Let's see...

    1. Leg room: Fantastic improvement, but this has nothing to do with being a wagon or SUV
    2. Ground Clearance: 8.7", versus the previous version's 8.5" - not much difference and nothing to do with the wagon departure yet. Approach/departure angles are still poor, so that continues to limit off-road capability. Both versions of the Outback are higher than the Legacy, but then that is why there was once a Legacy and an Outback.
    3. Fuel efficiency / power: Yes, but again, nothing to do with the body style.
    4. Quieter with framed windows. Haha. Okay. Do heavier doors make them quieter?
    5. Stow-away cross bars - great idea, even though they do have some limitations.
    6. Lower RPM power delivery - again, that's good but unrelated to body style.

    Nostalgia? Perhaps a little; after all, if this was a new model rather than a replacement for the wagon, it would be a non-issue. We know what there was and miss it. But, more than that, it is about handling, versatility, and driving experience. Not everyone likes the direction Subaru has taken with their new Outback or the Legacy lineup in general. Even though many of the points you illustrated are valid, those changes did not necessitate the move to an SUV.

    I do hope this new Outback is wildly popular; if so, I think it will facilitate the phase-out of the Tribeca and also provide room in the lineup for a wagon. The Legacy and the Outback are more divergent than ever before; I think that parting of ways will continue.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • 1. My biggest issue is the "privacy" glass. It was a grey, rainy day when I test drove the vehicle and I could barely see out the back window. It's also gotten smaller compared to my 2006 Outback. Anyone seated in the reat seats who might want to read can forget doing it with the windows closed. There's no light. What a totally dumb idea. A real deal breaker.
    2. My currently Outback has a Subaru-installed sunroof. It closes automatically when I turn off the motor-as it should. I was offered a test drive of the 2010 until it was discovered that the prior test driver didn't close the sun/moonroof and it had rained inside the car. It's ridiculous to have a roof window that doesn't close automatically. I can guarantee it will be left open many times when drivers exit quickly.
    3. Ah yes, the elimination of the folding side mirrors. As you all have said, another totally dumb idea. No new Outback for me this year!

    I can only hope to hold on to my current car until there's an appropriate model available from someone in the future! ">
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Are there map lights in the 2nd row?

    Was your moonroof dealer-installed? I had one like that - you could program it to close automatically, but it was not factory OE.
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    Having been disappointed with my previous Subarus' OEM tires, I was intent this time around to research the OEM's on the 2010 Outback and consider swapping them out at delivery while new (hopefully for a credit).

    Researching the Continental ContiPro Contacts on and other places, it seems that it is a rather mediocre Grand Touring All Season tire. There's actually an eclectic mix of people that love them and others that hate them, and conflicting road tests that put them at #2 with the other rating them dead last.

    So I'm on the fence as to whether they really are OK tires. So I'd like to get some feedback from current owners on the following:

    1) How do you like the Contis? Are they quiet? How about on concrete highways or on wet roads? Nicely muted or lots of whooshing?

    2) What about the handling and the road feel? Do they make the Outback fun to drive or is it just an appliance now? I've read in many reviews that the Outback has numb on-center feel. I wonder if it's the tires.

    3) Has anyone replaced them upon delivery or even after a few hundred miles due to dissatisfaction? What did you replace them with? How much of an improvement did you notice? (I saw the one thread where the owner replaced with the Goodyear TripleTred, but they've been consistently rated as noisy, so I'm avoiding that.)


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